Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

Oxajil said:
Andrew said:
Lately, while doing diaphragmatic breathing I've noticed that sometimes during exhalation I get a sudden heat wave that goes over my body and I get this tingling feeling at the bottoms of my feet. The feeling generally lasts for about a second or so. Been meaning to ask about this but wanted to make sure it wasn't just a fly by thing. I think it's related to the breathing exercises. :huh:

Anyone experience something similar?
Yes, I've been experiencing the same. I always get that feeling when I'm doing the Prayer position from the warming-up, though I don't get a tingling feeling at the bottoms of my feet, but I do feel this heat wave. It's the same heat wave I experience when I meditate.


While doing the prayer position I do notice different sensations, sort of like goosebumps but not exactly. Tonight I burst into tears while ding the prayer position. I always cry during ba-ha and usually during the meditation, but this was the first time during the prayer position and it came on quickly and was a hard cry. weird ... :/

Wanted to add, did the program on Tuesday and felt like I couldn't get enough air, it was like my lungs could just keep taking in more and more air- then I had the thought or realization that I was trying to pull air into my heart, not the diaphragm, somehow by focusing on breathing into the heart I could take in an enormous amount of air, or it seemed that way anyway.
 
Went to order and forgot my password, been waiting for about 30 minutes for the password. Wheelchair Not complaining just letting you know in case it's a technical problem.

edit: sent for password again, still not here.

Same for me, I try to have a new password for the last 2 days and got no return message yet.
 
RedFox said:
One last observation....has anyone else noticed that the things they are reading are making way more sense than before. That somehow your learning more/faster than before from almost everything??

Yes I've noticed this as well. BUT with the additional side-effect of there being, what seems to be, an opposing and equal effect of mental laziness and NOT wanting to read anything and apply what I've learned and to just go back to sleep. The C's comments on "Effort" to gain and apply knowledge seems rather relevant in this regard. But, perhaps that's just me?

Incognito said:
Wanted to add, did the program on Tuesday and felt like I couldn't get enough air, it was like my lungs could just keep taking in more and more air

Yes I had problems with this problem specifically (If I'm understanding you correctly) It was as if, like you said I just couldn't get enough air, even though it felt like more air could be attained, and needed to be attained to have a sufficient breath that would sustain my lungs. This problem eventually escalated to the point that my chest (my sternum region) started to experience some pretty bad pain whenever I took a deep breath and the air hit the higher region of my lungs.

Fortunately though, this has subsided and breathing (belly breathing) is becoming my normal mode of breathing. I used to have very, very shallow breathing and never used my diaphragm.

Boy what a difference it has made for me though.

If you happen to go through something similar, just keep in mind that it WILL pass. I think it is just due to your body making the necessary changes in order to adapt to this new mode of breathing.
 
RedFox said:
One last observation....has anyone else noticed that the things they are reading are making way more sense than before. That somehow your learning more/faster than before from almost everything??

Maybe when the higher emotional is properly working you don't just understand, but comprehend the whole meaning, and that should be the real meaning of knowing.
 
GotoGo said:
I think the core problem occurs when our mind (lower Intellectual center) becomes 'active' force in the process of mediation, which is the meaning of 'identification' with the mind. In that sate, the mind (lower Intellectual center) 'believes' that it can 'change' and try to control the process rather than letting go of any identifications.

I think that's a very good point, Gurdjieff, (in the excerpt posted below) talks about how the formatory apparatus (the most mechanical part of the intellectual center) is often the most active part of that center.

GotoGo said:
Intellectual center and Higher Intellectual center does not share the same hydrogen (48 and 6) while Emotional center and Higher Emotional center share the same hydrogen (12)
, which seems to indicate that lower Emotional center may become 'active' while connecting to higher centers in the breathing/meditation process but lower Intellectual center is in totally different relation therefore it will stay in 'passive' or 'neutral'.

That’s very interesting. As I understand it the emotional center works at a higher speed then the intellectual center. Then it would be able to match up to the speed of the higher emotional center (if it doesn't lose it's energy from our identifications) and make a connection with it. This certainly makes sense if they both share a common hydrogen (12).

Excerpt taken from P.D.Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' (pp 235-235):

"Accumulators work in the following way," he said. "Let us suppose that a man is working or is reading a difficult book and trying to understand it, in which case several 'rolls' revolve in the thinking apparatus in his head. Or let us suppose that he is walking up a hill and is getting tired, in which case the 'rolls' revolve in the moving center.

"In the first instance the intellectual center, and in the second the moving center, draw the energy necessary for their work from the small accumulators. When an accumulator is nearly empty a man feels tired. He would like to stop, to sit down if he is walking, to think of something else if he is solving a difficult problem. But quite unexpectedly he feels an inflow of strength, and he is once more able to walk or to work. This means that the center has become connected with the second accumulator and is taking energy from it. Meanwhile the first accumulator is refilling with energy from the large accumulator. The work of the center goes on. The man continues to walk or to work. Sometimes a short rest is required to insure this connection. Sometimes a shock, sometimes an effort. Anyway, the work goes on. After a certain time the store of energy in the second accumulator also becomes exhausted. The man again feels tired.

"Again an external shock, or a short rest, or a cigarette, or an effort, and he is connected with the first accumulator. But it may easily happen that the center has drawn energy from the second accumulator so quickly that the first one has had no time to refill itself from the large accumulator, and has taken only half the energy it can hold; it is only half full.

"Having become reconnected with the first accumulator the center begins to draw energy from it, while the second accumulator becomes connected with and draws energy from the large accumulator. But this time the first accumulator was only half full. The center quickly exhausts its energy, and in the meantime the second accumulator has succeeded in getting only a quarter full. The center becomes connected with it, swiftly exhausts all its energy, and connects once more with the first accumulator, and so on. After a certain time the organism is brought to such a state that neither of the small accumulators has a drop of energy left. This time the man feels really tired. He almost falls down, he almost drops asleep, or else his organism becomes affected, he starts a headache, palpitations begin, or he feels sick.

"Then suddenly, again a short rest, or an external shock, or an effort, brings a new flow of energy and the man is once more able to think, to walk, or to work. "This means that the center has become connected directly to the large accumulator. The large accumulator contains an enormous amount of energy. Connected with the large accumulator a man is literally able to perform miracles. But of course, if the 'rolls' continue to turn and energy which is made from air, food, and impressions continues to pour out of the large accumulator faster than it pours in, then there comes a moment when the large accumulator is drained of all energy and the organism dies. But this happens very seldom. Usually the organism automatically stops working long before this. Special conditions are necessary to cause the organism to die exhausted of all its energy. In ordinary conditions a man will fall asleep or he will faint or he will develop some internal complication which will stop the work a long time before the real danger.

"One need not, therefore, be afraid of efforts; the danger of dying from them is not at all great. It is much easier to die from inaction, from laziness, and from the fear of making efforts.

"Our aim, on the contrary, is to learn to connect the necessary center with the large accumulator. So long as we are unable to do this, all our work will be wasted because we shall fall asleep before our efforts can give any kind of results.

"Small accumulators suffice for the ordinary, everyday work of life. But for work on oneself, for inner growth, and for the efforts which are required of a man who enters the way, the energy from these small accumulators is not enough.

"We must learn how to draw energy straight from the large accumulator.

"This however is possible only with the help of the emotional center. It is essential that this be understood. The connection with the large accumulator can be effected only through the emotional center. The instinctive, moving, and intellectual centers, by themselves, can feed only on the small accumulators.

"This is precisely what people do not understand. Therefore their aim must be the development of the activity of the emotional center. The emotional center is an apparatus much more subtle than the intellectual center, particularly if we take into consideration the fact that in the whole of the intellectual center the only part that works is the formatory apparatus and that many things are quite inaccessible to the intellectual center.

"If anyone desires to know and to understand more than he actually knows and understands, he must remember that this new knowledge and this new understanding will come through the emotional center and not through the intellectual center."

In addition to what he had said about accumulators G. made some very interesting remarks about yawning and about laughter.

"There are two incomprehensible functions of our organism inexplicable from the scientific point of view," he said, "although naturally science does not admit them to be inexplicable; these are yawning and laughter. Neither the one nor the other can be rightly understood explained without knowing about accumulators and their role in the organism.

"You have noticed that you yawn when you are tired. This is especially noticeable, for instance, in the mountains, when a man who is unaccustomed to them yawns almost continually while he is ascending a mountain. Yawning is the pumping of energy into the small accumulators".
 
Andrew wrote:
"This problem eventually escalated to the point that my chest (my sternum region) started to experience some pretty bad pain whenever I took a deep breath and the air hit the higher region of my lungs."

(sorry I haven't as yet mastered 'quotes')
I had this experience also, and the area around the sternum is feeling a little bruised; also some tenderness in general around breast lymph tissues!! So I went on a search for info on these areas and found that the thymus sits behind the sternum and is enervated by the vagus nerve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymus
"Artery derived from internal mammary artery, superior thyroid artery, and inferior thyroid artery
Nerve vagus
Lymph tracheobronchial , parasternal
Precursor third branchial pouch
MeSH Thymus+gland
Dorlands/Elsevier Thymus"
Not sure what all this means right now but there seems to be some connections to what we are doing.

On a somewhat different effect of the EE breathing, I am finding that during pipe breathing into the stomach, the 'mechanical' habitual upper chest breathing is trying to assert itself even though I focus on breathing into my stomach,this causes some sort of spasm in the solar plexus (rather like a sob). Anyhow I am just going with it and thinking it will become clear eventually why this is. Maybe I have a lot of 'stuff' stored there which will need to come up and out. :scared:
c
 
kenlee said:
That’s very interesting. As I understand it the emotional center works at a higher speed then the intellectual center. Then it would be able to match up to the speed of the higher emotional center (if it doesn't lose it's energy from our identifications) and make a connection with it. This certainly makes sense if they both share a common hydrogen (12).

Seems that this is the reason why the symbolic carries so much layers of meaning?
The heart processes faster than the mind? Meaning the higher emotional processes faster than the lower intelectual.
Since it appears that the higher emotional is available before the higher emotional, this may well be the reason for the constant allegory in esoteric tradition perhaps...

Of course i dont know, there may be other methods that make available the higher intelectual before the higher emotional. Since Im new to activelly networking Im perceiving how much i Dont know...

And the learning faster that Red Fox alluded to... definitly YES.

Its easier to keep up with classes in the course of biochemystry that im taking, and Im not tired of learning and reading.

When i first read the Wave I was like this, read non stop for days with no signs of tiredness... Later on life catches up on me and suddently i read less, and less. Never stoped though.
This time, i will be carefull to keep the guard up!
 
Thank you! I am skipping the stretches... perhaps Im missing by not doing those.

I didn't think they were of particular importance either when I started, but it looks like that may not be the case!
 
Iron said:
Incognito said:
It's part of the stretching exercises in the Éiriú Eolas video. You bring your hands together over your head and then bring them down in front of your heart. You'll find it at about 7:43 in the video http://www.cassiopaea.org/Eiriu-Eolas/
Thank you! I am skipping the stretches... perhaps Im missing by not doing those.

Incognito said:
I didn't think they were of particular importance either when I started, but it looks like that may not be the case!


In my personal experience stretching has always been an important factor for any meditation that I was going to attempt. Primarily because it helped my body to relax and free itself from any tensions. I find it difficult to concentrate and keep a focused mind when there are tensions in my body that keep distracting me mentally that could easily be released by taking the time to do some stretches.

Whether you feel this is required is however your choice :)
 
Laura said:
It's always a mild hyperventilation effect" for everyone. If anyone thinks that this is an "esoteric event," think again. You only get the esoteric things during or after - sometimes long after - the meditation.
The breathing is for physiological "cleansing" and preparation for the esoteric part - the meditation.

Just want to say that I didn't think of the prayer position as an esoteric event. I was just noticing feelings in my body. I don't think I've ever been in a meditative state and don't know what an esoteric thing would feel like if I ever had one. But hopefully, someday I will.
 
This thread has now grown to nearly 70 pages so there is a lot of info here to consider. I have been searching for something specific here and as of yet haven't been able to find it. Maybe someone here can locate a previous response to a question I have about the breathing technique.

During the pipe breathing OUTBREATHs, is one supposed to be using, employing, invoking or involving the VOCAL CHORDS in any way? Or should it be solely the breath alone during the nine count of breathing out? During warriors breath it is pretty obvious that the vocal chords should be employed "like a warrior getting ready to go into battle".

Somewhere many pages back, and I looked for it and couldn't find it, I think it was kenlee who wrote that there was a certain "growl" associated with the outbreath (for him anyway), like a primal growl or something of that sort. But it wasn't clear whether one should or should not be stimulating the vocal chords in any way during the outbreath other than during the warriors breath.

If this question has been covered already, any tips or pointers to where one can read and learn about this aspect of the breathing would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi KC Kelly,
This bit of the transcript of the breathing program might help explain it. Laura in another place I think described it as a gentle 'haaaa' during the out breath.

You might also benefit from listening to the full introduction if you haven't done so: http://www.cassiopaea.org/Eiriu-Eolas/

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12985.0

Okay now, I am going to explain to you one of the primary techniques of vagal stimulation that you are going to need to learn before we go to the video program. This is called pipe breathing. The way pipe breathing is done is that basically you breathe with some constriction in the throat. This is very similar to the feeling you get just before or just after you swallow and it's especially pronounced if you swallow something very cold. Say you take a drink on a hot day and you go, “haaaaaaa”. So you have at that 'haaaaaaa' moment, you have that 'haaaaaaa' 'haaaaaaa' constriction on your upper pharyngeal passage. Say 'haaaaaaa' say 'haaaaaaa' and feel how the upper part of the very back of your throat comes down just a little bit. “Haaaaaaa', 'haaaaaaa', 'haaaaaaa'.

Now if you can do that and if you can hold that while you are breathing and you don't necessarily have to be saying 'haaaaaaa' but you might just want to try it for just a few minutes to get the feeling. 'Haaaaaaa', 'haaaaaaa', 'haaaaaaa'. Okay? Now let's try breathing with your mouth closed through the nose with that constriction in place, with that tightening of the pharyngeal passage. Now let's try it and I want you to listen carefully and see if you can make the same sound. I am going to do it.

“Sounds of breathing”

Now that's what it sounds like when breathing in with that constriction. Now let's do breathing out through the nose.

“Sounds of breathing”

In (sounds of breathing).... out (sounds of breathing)

Now you may say that, that sounds a little bit like Darth Vader or it may sound like the way you breathe
when you are just going to sleep and you just maybe snore a little bit. You are not quite in a full snore but you are just kind of snoring a little bit. So let's try it again, Breathe in with the constriction, with the tightening of the pharyngeal passage. Breathe with me now...

In (sounds of breathing).

Now out (sounds of breathing).

Now both of those, in and out were done through the nose. Now let's try breathing in through the nose and then out through the mouth. Okay, ready..

Breathe in (sounds of breathing).

Out through the mouth (sounds of exhalation).

Now did you hear how slow that exhalation was? Now lets try it again. In through the nose and out through the mouth.

(Breathing and exhalation sounds)

(Breathing and exhalation sounds)

Now lets' try breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth only we are going to say 'haaaaaaa' as we exhale. Okay?

In (sounds of breathing in)

Out (sounds like 'haaaaaaa')

In (sounds of breathing in)

Out (sounds like 'haaaaaaa')

In (sounds of breathing in)

Out (sounds like 'haaaaaaa')

Okay? Now that's called pipe breathing. What we are going to do with that when we get into the video portion is we are going to use pipe breathing in various positions and doing various activities and you are going to be asked to do it to a count. You are going to be asked to breathe in to a particular count and then out to a particular count. Now it's a little hard for me to count and breathe at the same time. So I am going to be thinking the count while I demonstrate this for you, okay, then I will tell you the count. Ready...
 
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