Elon Musk: Tech Genius! Green Warrior! Biz King! Good Oligarch?

[Navigator]

I thought it was pretty cool, I even clapped when the Super Heavy Booster was caught back. It feels like finally someone had the guts and resources to advance our technology into new territories. Regardless of what we think about Musk, this is a great achievement.

Now, reflecting on this, I think it is going in the "wrong" direction. Because what it is happening here is that we are creating finer and more technologically advanced versions of a car in preparation for transatlantic travel. It is obvious that an airplane is way more suited for that task.

And so, in the same way, if we are thinking about higher tech, then anti-gravity is a way more suited method for space travel. And anti-gravity is not an obscure topic among technologists nor its research is only restricted to the Consortium or Russian secret programs.

But Musk is not going in that direction, he's going for fuel-consuming engines and rockets that can handle high temperature combustion. And the funny thing is that he does not believe in "aliens", or at least he says he doesn't believe in them. But if he did, then betting on anti-gravity would have been a better investment (and here I am assuming he is not doing anything in that regard).

So maybe that is why he is "allowed" to move forward with his plans, at least when it comes to space exploration.

 

[Keit]

Agree, I can't help but celebrate this. It's remarkable, beautiful even - the aesthetics of it! I mean, here's a group of people who shared a vision, a dream, a goal, something everybody said was impossible or too difficult or not worth it, and they made it happen.

Indeed!

When I saw the new vehicle, the first thing that came to my mind was: They took a toaster with artdeco aesthetics and put wheels on it.
And then the rocket and the claws... what can I comment? All that engineering effort is not going to get you to Mars. There are people in the world who have the secret of antigravity and UFT under seven keys, and we are amazed by this?

Despite everything we know thanks to the C's, and that some shady organizations or companies already have "Star Trek like" and more capabilities, I can't help but be inspired and excited about such achievements.

Why? Space exploration is like a symbol of humanity's determination, creativity and vision. Just like the motto of Star Trek: "to boldly go where no man has gone before". It has a meaning for me personally, probably because in childhood I was exposed to the "space exploration" visions and ideas that were prevalent in the Soviet Union. It was "per aspera ad astra" ("Through thorns/hardships to the stars"). There is even a Soviet movie with this name.

It's easy to be cynical about it, especially since we are full aware of all the lies, cover-ups and deep secrets. I am pretty sure that most of the people on the forum who are excited about this recent achievement are also aware that we are probably not going to get the exact future as Musk or others invision it. PTB or the Universe clearly have other plans. So what?

I think this excitement touches upon something deeper. It's this sense of humanity, and that humanity is about exploration, about expanding our abilities, and we are happy to see that despite all the crap that goes on in the World right now, there is still room for genius, smart engineering and innovation.

The only problem I have with that, that this is not Russkies work Although Scottie's post show that Russkies are not far behind

I took a look at what Russians are saying in the comments. Only a fraction of them ask where is Roscosmos and similar developments. Most of Russkies say that we don't need this stuff anyway. That this is a circus, laundring money or a useless show. That even if this complex will be reused, most of the components will have to be replaced or renewed anyway, and it's ealiser to build a new one.

Here's another similar comment. Most of them are like this: "Nothing cheaper than a 1-time rocket has been invented yet, the costs of landing and post-flight maintenance of the carrier will exceed all possible benefits. And also the risks, it was obvious from the landing that not everything went according to plan, the nozzle fire was only visible, what was inside - without examination of each unit and node to allow for repeated flights is an unjustified risk, especially with people."

You can call them sore losers or pragmatic and realistic Russians, your choice.

Speaking of Star Trek, here's is opening credits of Enterprise series. The music is incredibly cheesy, but I am unashamed to say that I like it precisely for its "visionary" flavor. This particular series is about a period even before Kirk. It's the period when humanity took its first steps at interstellar flight, and so the credits reflect this journey. And again, despite everything we know, those credits reminded me of SpaceX vision.

 

[luc]

And so, in the same way, if we are thinking about higher tech, then anti-gravity is a way more suited method for space travel. And anti-gravity is not an obscure topic among technologists nor its research is only restricted to the Consortium or Russian secret programs.

But Musk is not going in that direction, he's going for fuel-consuming engines and rockets that can handle high temperature combustion. And the funny thing is that he does not believe in "aliens", or at least he says he doesn't believe in them. But if he did, then betting on anti-gravity would have been a better investment (and here I am assuming he is not doing anything in that regard).

There's a great book called "The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity Technology" - highly recommend it, it reads like a thriller! Long story short, there was a time in the 1950s when mainstream aviation engineers (senior people) openly talked about anti-gravity tech and how it's very close to a breakthrough. But then suddenly, they all went silent and didn't want to talk about it anymore... One oldschool guy still around first agreed to an interview for the book, but then apparently got a "visit" and cancelled.

So, anti-gravity tech seems to be highly controlled and suppressed.

Now, I don't know whether Musk is aware of this or not, but it doesn't really matter: if he's aware, he wisely chose not to go there, if he isn't aware, well bless his heart. In any event, he went the conventional route instead, achieving something truly remarkable within the constraints of our reality as it is. And he probably inspired millions of people, and he showed what you can achieve if you have a dream and a vision and pursue it. In fact, he in a sense showed that you NEED to have an inspiring dream and a vision to achieve something great like this.

Now, you could cynically say it's a wasted effort given that there's anti-gravity tech and whatnot, but I don't think technology works that way necessarily: you achieve a breakthrough in some field, in this case conventional rocket tech, and this might cause all kinds of other developments down the line, even in other fields. So it's still a great achievement and not wasted.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I too found it to be inspiring and deeply moving. Just check out this video with sonic boom:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845464187935289568

If nothing else, I find it interesting symbolically that this happened right before the elections, with Musk being a MAGA front man now. It's a powerful statement about the difference between the useless parasitic and insane clique in power and the "world of normal people" who actually achieve something.

Can't find the tweet, but some posted how the government had delayed this flight, but then approved it for pre-election in the expectation it would fail. Not sure how accurate this is, but it seems plausible. If true, what a pleasant and inspiring way of saying "F* you!"

Here's Musk himself saying the first try would probably fail:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845643378643632325

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845446877044478002

And for all the Musk haters, some food for thought:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845638150418505749

I think this excitement touches upon something deeper. It's this sense of humanity, and that humanity is about exploration, about expanding our abilities, and we are happy to see that despite all the crap that goes on in the World right now, there is still room for genius, smart engineering and innovation.

I think humanity has a deep yearning for the stars. "Our home, our destination." That expresses itself in our mythologies and religions, and in modern times, with our ideals for space travel.

Plus, from a purely practical perspective, a case can be made for space colonization. Historically, the only way of correcting elite overproduction (which leads to secular crises and state collapse) has been war and catastrophe, which culls the numbers of elite aspirants. Space colonization provides a means of reducing these demographic problems without mass deaths. In other words, I fully support an effort to colonize Mars with all the useless PhDs that have been churned out these past few decades!

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Now, I don't know whether Musk is aware of this or not, but it doesn't really matter: if he's aware, he wisely chose not to go there, if he isn't aware, well bless his heart. In any event, he went the conventional route instead, achieving something truly remarkable within the constraints of our reality as it is. And he probably inspired millions of people, and he showed what you can achieve if you have a dream and a vision and pursue it. In fact, he in a sense showed that you NEED to have an inspiring dream and a vision to achieve something great like this.

Now, you could cynically say it's a wasted effort given that there's anti-gravity tech and whatnot, but I don't think technology works that way necessarily: you achieve a breakthrough in some field, in this case conventional rocket tech, and this might cause all kinds of other developments down the line, even in other fields. So it's still a great achievement and not wasted.

100%. I'm not any less impressed just because there is better tech hidden away from the public. Is the Su-57 any less impressive knowing that the Russians also have antigravity tech? The SR-71 (which is obsolete now, but still totally badass)?

 

[Navigator]

Here is Musk voicing this too

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845940042457666011

 

[Bluegazer]

I don't care if people call me a cynic then... I'm just tired of the false promises, and even more so when this happens:

There's a great book called "The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity Technology" - highly recommend it, it reads like a thriller! Long story short, there was a time in the 1950s when mainstream aviation engineers (senior people) openly talked about anti-gravity tech and how it's very close to a breakthrough. But then suddenly, they all went silent and didn't want to talk about it anymore... One oldschool guy still around first agreed to an interview for the book, but then apparently got a "visit" and cancelled.

So, anti-gravity tech seems to be highly controlled and suppressed.

But my beef with Musk is his hypocrisy. I don't forget how the guy gets involved in the politics of other countries just for profit. For everything else, what it does can easily fall into something like what the bible says:

I will show them wonders in heaven, and miraculous signs on earth...

I find 4th density more exciting and move into that realm where the word exploration has more impact.

 

[Bluegazer]

Space colonization provides a means of reducing these demographic problems without mass deaths.

There is an animated series from 1979 that deals with the same subject. Gundam. Give it a watch. It will give you another perspective.

 

[SummerLite]

OMG.... is this true?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846026270569562452

 

[KJS]

I don't care if people call me a cynic then... I'm just tired of the false promises

I do understand that what he does is a part of the "Creative Universe", and at some point we decided to experience that. Without DARPA, we wouldn't have the Internet, right? So maybe even there's something beneficial and unexpected in the "Occupy Mars" movement awaiting is down the timeline. But the more I think about the desired endpoint of the whole process, the more it shouts terms like CRISPR and mRNA to alter our biological structure to accommodate a completely different environment. Add to that chips in the brain to control the Tesla-built robot avatar, and we have something akin to the Lizzie-Gray relationship, but in 3D. Unable to reproduce from unexpected genetic alterations and searching for new containers

It feels like both sides are set up for the same; there's a difference about how gradual that process will be. That realization makes me cynical and judgmental about the multiple shows Musk is putting on and I just can't help myself to see it differently ​

 

[RedFox]

OMG.... is this true?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846026270569562452

The Babylon Bee is a satire news site - who do tend to be very good at unintentionally predicting the future. So at the moment it's not true (and purely for comedy) - but for how long?

Here's hundreds of climate protestors in Germany storming a Tesla factory

And here's climate protestors attacking a Cybertruck

 

[Bluegazer]

@KJS

I see it in the following perspective: We know that in the material there is a twin sun, which is going to drag a lot of bolides, meteorites and other bodies and shoot them into the inner solar system like a shot from a sawed-off shotgun. This event will in turn alter the electric and magnetic fields of the planets and the sun. It will alter the Earth's atmosphere. We know about this because the statistics are true and there are the records of the increase of meteors reaching the earth. Then you have the accounts of the past, where mars lost its water due to the passage of venus, and then the earth received all that water. You have the ancient planet Kantek that exploded due to a conflict... The solar system is not the perfect Newtonian clock that they teach you in school.

So... this is not cynicism, it's being quite objective, isn't it? So can a rocket 120 meters high, go against all that? Gee, even UFO sighting stories tell us that even the shiniest cadillac UFO can have a bad moment with the weather or radar and land in your backyard. A little bad weather at Cape Canaveral makes NASA sweat gallons and cancel launches. Is that how we want to go to Mars? And we can add more, we have the wave, that who knows where and when, will move the foundations of reality... you are in your little rocket ready to put your little flag on Mars, and when you want to realize, before take off you are in the middle of a dense forest with creatures that you have never seen before...

So? What do we do? The obvious answer given the knowledge we have here in the forum is to invest in hyperdimensional technology. But of course, for us mere mortals that is even further away than Elon Musk's wet dream of making his rocket the protagonist of his version of the movie, When Worlds Collide (1951)... that if you read the plot the spaceship is not built by any government... it is financed by a group of independent entrepreneurs...​

 

[Cosmos]

I find 4th density more exciting and move into that realm where the word exploration has more impact.

4th density is a concept that is (if we go by what the C's have said) hard, if not impossible, to grasp at "our level" of being. Also, if I remember correctly, the C's once said something like "you advance not by studying the lessons of the next higher class but by the lessons in your class". So, it is probably of little use for us to speculate or even anticipate something we can't grasp anyway. We don't know either "who can make it" to 4th density and how long that would take. For all we know, that number might be pretty small anyway and maybe encompasses thousands of our years of hard work in many incarnations.

But my beef with Musk is his hypocrisy. I don't forget how the guy gets involved in the politics of other countries just for profit. For everything else, what it does can easily fall into something like what the bible says:

I would say it is always useful to try to put ourselves in the shoes of other people. And that of course also applies to very prominent, powerful and/or rich people. For example: I don't think people of that sort necessarily had or have an easier life. In fact, I think it can be quite a lot harder, in some ways. No matter where you are, and who you are, the universe always seems to present appropriate hurdles and struggles. So, if we take Musk for example, considering what he seems to have gone through as a child and in what situation he found himself in years later (one of the richest/powerful people in the world), and knowing what type of pressures such people face and are applied on them, I think it is quite something that Musk seems to have "woken up" to the degree he seems to have. I would say something like that is probably quite hard for a person in that position to achieve. It is also always useful to remember that everybody, including us, once believed quite a number of big lies and even engaged in not so good things. People learn and change, and that also applies to rich/famous people. They can also fail in similar ways as "normal" people do. And nobody has "the full banana" anyway.

So? What do we do? The obvious answer given the knowledge we have here in the forum is to invest in hyperdimensional technology.

And it seems that "forces" or "laws" of some kind prevent us at this level to have hyperdimensional technology "come out" on a grand, big and/or really meaningful scale for all people. It also seems to have something to do with the above-mentioned thing the C's have pointed out.

I see it in the following perspective: We know that in the material there is a twin sun, which is going to drag a lot of bolides, meteorites and other bodies and shoot them into the inner solar system like a shot from a sawed-off shotgun. This event will in turn alter the electric and magnetic fields of the planets and the sun. It will alter the Earth's atmosphere. We know about this because the statistics are true and there are the records of the increase of meteors reaching the earth. Then you have the accounts of the past, where mars lost its water due to the passage of venus, and then the earth received all that water. You have the ancient planet Kantek that exploded due to a conflict... The solar system is not the perfect Newtonian clock that they teach you in school.

So... this is not cynicism, it's being quite objective, isn't it? So can a rocket 120 meters high, go against all that?

First, we don't know if or when something like that will happen to us. It might or might not happen in the foreseeable future. It is a possibility, not a certainty. Secondly, the universe doesn't seem to only work linearly and/or materialistically. A lot seems to also have a "spiritual" component to it, which might not accord to our linear thinking. Even seemingly "small", "insignificant" and /or "useless" things happening or being done at our level might have quite unpredictable effects in some ways.

 

[Ina]

4th density is a concept that is (if we go by what the C's have said) hard, if not impossible, to grasp at "our level" of being. Also, if I remember correctly, the C's once said something like "you advance not by studying the lessons of the next higher class but by the lessons in your class". So, it is probably of little use for us to speculate or even anticipate something we can't grasp anyway. We don't know either "who can make it" to 4th density and how long that would take. For all we know, that number might be pretty small anyway and maybe encompasses thousands of our years of hard work in many incarnations.



I would say it is always useful to try to put ourselves in the shoes of other people. And that of course also applies to very prominent, powerful and/or rich people. For example: I don't think people of that sort necessarily had or have an easier life. In fact, I think it can be quite a lot harder, in some ways. No matter where you are, and who you are, the universe always seems to present appropriate hurdles and struggles. So, if we take Musk for example, considering what he seems to have gone through as a child and in what situation he found himself in years later (one of the richest/powerful people in the world), and knowing what type of pressures such people face and are applied on them, I think it is quite something that Musk seems to have "woken up" to the degree he seems to have. I would say something like that is probably quite hard for a person in that position to achieve. It is also always useful to remember that everybody, including us, once believed quite a number of big lies and even engaged in not so good things. People learn and change, and that also applies to rich/famous people. They can also fail in similar ways as"normal" people do. And nobody has "the full banana" anyway.



And it seems that something like "a law" prevents us at this level to have hyperdimensional technology "come out" on a grand, big and/or really meaningful scale for all people. It also seems to have something to do with the above-mentioned thing the C's have pointed out.



First, we don't know if or when something like that will happen to us. It might or might not happen in the foreseeable future. It is a possibility, not a certainty. Secondly, the universe doesn't seem to only work linearly and/or materialistically. A lot seems to also have a "spiritual" component to it, which might not accord to our linear thinking. Even seemingly "small", "insignificant" and /or "useless" things happening or being done at our level might have quite unpredictable effects in some ways.

& @Bluegazer Stargate SG-1 had plenty of 'like' 4D tech.

 

[Cosmos]

Indeed!



Despite everything we know thanks to the C's, and that some shady organizations or companies already have "Star Trek like" and more capabilities, I can't help but be inspired and excited about such achievements.

Why? Space exploration is like a symbol of humanity's determination, creativity and vision. Just like the motto of Star Trek: "to boldly go where no man has gone before". It has a meaning for me personally, probably because in childhood I was exposed to the "space exploration" visions and ideas that were prevalent in the Soviet Union. It was "per aspera ad astra" ("Through thorns/hardships to the stars"). There is even a Soviet movie with this name.

It's easy to be cynical about it, especially since we are full aware of all the lies, cover-ups and deep secrets. I am pretty sure that most of the people on the forum who are excited about this recent achievement are also aware that we are probably not going to get the exact future as Musk or others invision it. PTB or the Universe clearly have other plans. So what?

I think this excitement touches upon something deeper. It's this sense of humanity, and that humanity is about exploration, about expanding our abilities, and we are happy to see that despite all the crap that goes on in the World right now, there is still room for genius, smart engineering and innovation.

The only problem I have with that, that this is not Russkies work Although Scottie's post show that Russkies are not far behind

I took a look at what Russians are saying in the comments. Only a fraction of them ask where is Roscosmos and similar developments. Most of Russkies say that we don't need this stuff anyway. That this is a circus, laundring money or a useless show. That even if this complex will be reused, most of the components will have to be replaced or renewed anyway, and it's ealiser to build a new one.

Here's another similar comment. Most of them are like this: "Nothing cheaper than a 1-time rocket has been invented yet, the costs of landing and post-flight maintenance of the carrier will exceed all possible benefits. And also the risks, it was obvious from the landing that not everything went according to plan, the nozzle fire was only visible, what was inside - without examination of each unit and node to allow for repeated flights is an unjustified risk, especially with people."

You can call them sore losers or pragmatic and realistic Russians, your choice.

Speaking of Star Trek, here's is opening credits of Enterprise series. The music is incredibly cheesy, but I am unashamed to say that I like it precisely for its "visionary" flavor. This particular series is about a period even before Kirk. It's the period when humanity took its first steps at interstellar flight, and so the credits reflect this journey. And again, despite everything we know, those credits reminded me of SpaceX vision.

[...]

Not being a great fan of science fiction myself (often, quite the opposite in fact!) there are very few series/films in that genre that I liked quite a lot, such as "Star Trek: The next Generation", mostly because of meaningful stories and interpersonal interactions and not so much because of the tech and Aliens and stuff. But at the same time I'm a great admirer of what the Americans achieved with their projects before, during and shortly after the moon landings. Not so much because I see it as a very useful thing to do, but because it was somehow always very inspiring to me in the sense of what people can achieve, individually, and together, also in terms of engineering:

I would encourage anyone - and especially those who firmly cling to this or that "hoax" idea about the moon landings - to take your time and listen to some of the people who actually did it, namely the Astronauts. Frankly speaking, I always had tremendous respect for the sheer determination, discipline, training, experience and knowledge people who have chosen that path had to develop to be able to do that. In case you didn't know, Astronauts in general, and more specifically, those who went to the moon, usually had a deep and often stellar background in many different and varying disciplines, that no other profession on earth shares in that form. Most of them had to be able to know and do pretty much everything. And that includes engineering, mathematics, mechanics, electrical engineering, physics, geology, piloting of jets, Commanding crews/ships/military, multi-language skills and many other things. So, in certain respects, what we send up to the moon were some of the most refined, experienced and capable people this planet has to offer: