EMF Exposure

[mcb]

I am trying to get some idea of the speed at which ATP synthase operates. Any ideas? And is there anything in the cytoplasm or the mitochondria that might be particularly sensitive to magnetic fields, or capable of induction? We've got a capacitor -- is there a coil in there too? (I can think of two prominent helices.) What about the ATP synthase itself, a proton-powered rotor? It has to be generating a magnetic field during steady state synthesis, doesn't it? That would interact with an external magnetic field. The nDNA and mtDNA have interesting resonant properties as well, as I recall. I wonder what their frequency ranges are?

I was doing a bit of searching while typing above, and I came across this article:
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635747

It has a lot to say about the ADP synthesis process and the amounts of energy involved. I don't know how these energies compare with those that might be externally induced, however.

I would think that effects would be seen within the cell at energies below those that might produce symptoms that could be observed externally.

 

[LQB]

I am trying to get some idea of the speed at which ATP synthase operates. Any ideas? And is there anything in the cytoplasm or the mitochondria that might be particularly sensitive to magnetic fields, or capable of induction? We've got a capacitor -- is there a coil in there too? (I can think of two prominent helices.)

I haven't seen anything on rates. The mag field at the level of the mt would look like a straight line field, and tend to drive a current in a circle (helix) with positive ions moving in one direction and negative ions in the other. This would look like the current in an inductor - and I would think, make a mess out of the capacitor that is trying to set up the proper E-field gradient. One way to analyze this is to draw up an equivalent circuit of some of the electrical processes, then analyze for time-varying input. This would take a pretty good knowledge of the electrical dynamics in and outside the mt.

What about the ATP synthase itself, a proton-powered rotor? It has to be generating a magnetic field during steady state synthesis, doesn't it? That would interact with an external magnetic field. The nDNA and mtDNA have interesting resonant properties as well, as I recall. I wonder what their frequency ranges are?

Any time current flows (ions move) you create a mag field. At the mt local level, if the net flow of current is radial, then the mag fields will tend to cancel, so I think it would depend on what is happening where. An externally applied mag field will alter the direction of ion flow whether they are protons or charged molecules. And, yes, I think there is much to be mined in the time-behavior of the processes in relation to time-varying external EMF.

I was doing a bit of searching while typing above, and I came across this article:
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2635747

It has a lot to say about the ADP synthesis process and the amounts of energy involved. I don't know how these energies compare with those that might be externally induced, however.

I would think that effects would be seen within the cell at energies below those that might produce symptoms that could be observed externally.

I'll take a look at the article. Externally applied EMF would like like a very homogeneous field at the local level of the mt, and it might have less of a problem adapting to it since its local fields are very high. But if this field is modulated at a high rate (by noise or digital switching), then the effects might be totally different (as epidemiological data suggests).

 

[LQB]

From a recent Weston Price (WAPF) notice:

Last month, for the second time, the EPA refused to intervene to stop the use of the pesticide clothianidin, which scientists believe is at least partially to blame for the alarming rise in bee colony collapse -- the sudden bee-die off which has claimed about 30% of the U.S. honey bee population each year since 2006.

If we don't convince the EPA to reconsider, it is not scheduled to review clothianidin again until 2018. By then it could be too late for the bees, and the one third of our food crops bees play a crucial role in pollinating.

Note the 2006 date. This is about the time that cell towers were invading the rural areas of the US. Germany was still putting up new rural towers in 2005. Based on the research I've done, it is probable that both EMF and pesticides are responsible for the bee problems. Both are stressors for bees and humans. Numerous researchers are of the opinion that EMF and toxic exposure can increase one's sensitivity to either one.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I've been reading this thread with interest. For the moment, I think I'm in a decent situation, as far as possible, from the stand point of being exposed to wireless technologies.

However, I've been looking at some properties to buy. One I saw recently is land to build a house on that is about 100 to 130 meters away from a radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes. The other is a property with a brand new house on it that is up a hill from the other property. It's probably about half a kilometer or so away from the broadcast dishes. You can't see the dishes unless you go to the back of the property (total area of property is 1740 square meters) and look to the right and down the "cliff."

I just wanted to ask the opinion of the experts here if there would be an EMF exposure problem with these dishes. I'm pretty sure, it would not be a good idea to buy the land that is very close to the dishes, but not certain. What about the property with the house that is above and about a half kilometer or so away from the dishes? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[LQB]

I've been reading this thread with interest. For the moment, I think I'm in a decent situation, as far as possible, from the stand point of being exposed to wireless technologies.

However, I've been looking at some properties to buy. One I saw recently is land to build a house on that is about 100 to 130 meters away from a radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes. The other is a property with a brand new house on it that is up a hill from the other property. It's probably about half a kilometer or so away from the broadcast dishes. You can't see the dishes unless you go to the back of the property (total area of property is 1740 square meters) and look to the right and down the "cliff."

I just wanted to ask the opinion of the experts here if there would be an EMF exposure problem with these dishes. I'm pretty sure, it would not be a good idea to buy the land that is very close to the dishes, but not certain. What about the property with the house that is above and about a half kilometer or so away from the dishes? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

If the dishes are pointed up to the south at elevation (off vertical) about equal to your latitude, then they are talking to geosynch satellites. They would be high gain, low power, and the sidelobe radiation in your direction would be small. Dishes that point horizontally are point-to-point microwave and are usually mounted on towers - it would not be good to be in the line of their link. The antennas of concern are low-moderate gain that broadcast to the local area like cell towers and HDTV. You may want to contact them and find out what they are broadcasting locally (if anything). They may also have compliance data showing power densities in the surrounding areas. Look for any tower structures and identify any antennas mounted on them. To be sure, you can rent a broadband RF meter and survey for yourself. If that station broadcasts anything to the local area, then the property is probably not a good choice.

If you are going to build a house, it would be good to put all wiring in metal conduit and ground the conduit to the panel box. If you use Bx cabling, it comes shielded in flexible conduit and is a very good choice.

I would go talk to the folks at the station - you may find someone very accommodating that will walk you through everything they have that transmits.

You are doing the right thing by making sure of the EMF environment before you buy! :)

 

[Sirius]

radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes.

At first that sounds rather dangerous because in most cases there is more than only dishes. The question is if it actually broadcasts anything to the environment. Are there besides the dishes any other visible antennae on the roof? You could in addition post some pictures of it. If you are going to measure EMFs, keep in mind that you need an ultra broadband meter in order to be able to detect certain radio frequencies which are below 700-800 MHz.

 

[mcb]

radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes.

At first that sounds rather dangerous because in most cases there is more than only dishes. The question is if it actually broadcasts anything to the environment. Are there besides the dishes any other visible antennae on the roof? You could in addition post some pictures of it. If you are going to measure EMFs, keep in mind that you need an ultra broadband meter in order to be able to detect certain radio frequencies which are below 700-800 MHz.

Photos might indeed help. I am getting a picture of an ordinary station that has its transmitter and antenna located elsewhere. Presumably there is a microwave link to that, and you want to be clear of it. It should be highly directional but there is no sure substitute for measurement. And as with cell towers, there might be "dirty power" issues quite apart from what is "supposed" to be transmitted. Even if it is clean now, future equipment upgrades could result in changes.

The "large dishes" sound to me like incoming satellite feeds, although the one time I was involved with a mobile satellite uplink I believe it used a similar sort of dish as well. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember very well. The ones I really dont want to be involved with are the smaller dishes aimed horizontally.

For the real experts here, are there noise issues with digital TV transmission similar to cell phone transmissions? I don't think I would want to live anywhere near the primary transmitter. Where I live, many of the transmitters are located in one remote location, because of the hazard to aircraft as much as anything else. I wonder what the local effects were of transitioning to digital TV.

 

[Sirius]

Digital TV is one of the hazardous transmissions, too, because it is pulsed. Its frequency is somewhere between 100 and 800 MHz (varying), at least in Germany. Those huge radio and TV towers are extremely high-powered transmitters. But fortunately, there are not so many out there like cellphone towers. Their emission (what you called “noise”) can be measured several kilometres away (visual assumed), and the radiation is reflected and absorbed less.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Thanks for the replies, LQB, Sirius, and Megan.

I just want to clarify that I'm in Armenia. I live in the most central place in the capital city since summer 2006 and want to move out of the city. I've seen a few very promising properties in a village town very close to the city (about a 20 minute drive to the city center).

I've been reading this thread with interest. For the moment, I think I'm in a decent situation, as far as possible, from the stand point of being exposed to wireless technologies.

However, I've been looking at some properties to buy. One I saw recently is land to build a house on that is about 100 to 130 meters away from a radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes. The other is a property with a brand new house on it that is up a hill from the other property. It's probably about half a kilometer or so away from the broadcast dishes. You can't see the dishes unless you go to the back of the property (total area of property is 1740 square meters) and look to the right and down the "cliff."

I just wanted to ask the opinion of the experts here if there would be an EMF exposure problem with these dishes. I'm pretty sure, it would not be a good idea to buy the land that is very close to the dishes, but not certain. What about the property with the house that is above and about a half kilometer or so away from the dishes? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

If the dishes are pointed up to the south at elevation (off vertical) about equal to your latitude, then they are talking to geosynch satellites. They would be high gain, low power, and the sidelobe radiation in your direction would be small. Dishes that point horizontally are point-to-point microwave and are usually mounted on towers - it would not be good to be in the line of their link. The antennas of concern are low-moderate gain that broadcast to the local area like cell towers and HDTV. You may want to contact them and find out what they are broadcasting locally (if anything). They may also have compliance data showing power densities in the surrounding areas. Look for any tower structures and identify any antennas mounted on them. To be sure, you can rent a broadband RF meter and survey for yourself. If that station broadcasts anything to the local area, then the property is probably not a good choice.

The two dishes are angled back some from being vertical, and I'm pretty sure pointing south. I'm not sure what you mean by "about equal to your latitude." Could you please clarify? I'm pretty sure they're just mounted on the roof of the building. To be honest I didn't look for or notice any other antenna type things around, but I wasn't really looking for them as the two large dishes dominate the scene at the station. I'll have to check further about all this and get back with an update.

After a quick search, I found two possible meters to use to measure RF and other EMF that I'll post links to below so that if you guys think they're good, I'll purchase one of them as I'm not sure I can rent these here (I'll check that, as well) and these meters are always good to have to know what's going on with EMF in the environment.

If you are going to build a house, it would be good to put all wiring in metal conduit and ground the conduit to the panel box. If you use Bx cabling, it comes shielded in flexible conduit and is a very good choice.

I have to see about the availability of metal conduit and Bx cable here in Armenia. I've used these to add circuits/outlets in commercial space in our studios in NYC, but need to make sure they're available here. The house up and about a half a kilometer away from the dishes has very many advantages (including its reasonable price). It's brand new, built about two years ago, and never been occupied. While it's a bit small (and the design/decor a bit fancy), we can live in it with all modern amenities while building an addition. And the large land is great, with a beautiful view and in a very good location, all things considered. So we're leaning most to considering purchasing this property right now.

I would go talk to the folks at the station - you may find someone very accommodating that will walk you through everything they have that transmits.

You are doing the right thing by making sure of the EMF environment before you buy! :)

I won't be able to go back to that area until next weekend (end of August/beginning of Sept). So I'll try to get as much additional info as possible as soon as possible.

radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes.

At first that sounds rather dangerous because in most cases there is more than only dishes. The question is if it actually broadcasts anything to the environment. Are there besides the dishes any other visible antennae on the roof? You could in addition post some pictures of it. If you are going to measure EMFs, keep in mind that you need an ultra broadband meter in order to be able to detect certain radio frequencies which are below 700-800 MHz.

Again, I didn't notice other antennae, but I wasn't looking. I'll have to recheck that and post an update (as well I'll try to post photos). The meters I'm considering purchasing are the following (not necessarily from the following sites), after a quick search (I'm no expert on any of these issues):

http://www.crscientific.com/trifield1.html

http://www.orgonelab.org/cart/ycellphonemeter.htm

radio/TV broadcasting station with two large dishes.

At first that sounds rather dangerous because in most cases there is more than only dishes. The question is if it actually broadcasts anything to the environment. Are there besides the dishes any other visible antennae on the roof? You could in addition post some pictures of it. If you are going to measure EMFs, keep in mind that you need an ultra broadband meter in order to be able to detect certain radio frequencies which are below 700-800 MHz.

Photos might indeed help. I am getting a picture of an ordinary station that has its transmitter and antenna located elsewhere. Presumably there is a microwave link to that, and you want to be clear of it. It should be highly directional but there is no sure substitute for measurement. And as with cell towers, there might be "dirty power" issues quite apart from what is "supposed" to be transmitted. Even if it is clean now, future equipment upgrades could result in changes.

The "large dishes" sound to me like incoming satellite feeds, although the one time I was involved with a mobile satellite uplink I believe it used a similar sort of dish as well. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember very well. The ones I really dont want to be involved with are the smaller dishes aimed horizontally.

For the real experts here, are there noise issues with digital TV transmission similar to cell phone transmissions? I don't think I would want to live anywhere near the primary transmitter. Where I live, many of the transmitters are located in one remote location, because of the hazard to aircraft as much as anything else. I wonder what the local effects were of transitioning to digital TV.

Digital TV is one of the hazardous transmissions, too, because it is pulsed. Its frequency is somewhere between 100 and 800 MHz (varying), at least in Germany. Those huge radio and TV towers are extremely high-powered transmitters. But fortunately, there are not so many out there like cellphone towers. Their emission (what you called “noise”) can be measured several kilometres away (visual assumed), and the radiation is reflected and absorbed less.

Again, I'll have to check about some of these things and get back to you. Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[LQB]

Thanks for the replies, LQB, Sirius, and Megan.

I just want to clarify that I'm in Armenia. I live in the most central place in the capital city since summer 2006 and want to move out of the city. I've seen a few very promising properties in a village town very close to the city (about a 20 minute drive to the city center).


The two dishes are angled back some from being vertical, and I'm pretty sure pointing south. I'm not sure what you mean by "about equal to your latitude." Could you please clarify? I'm pretty sure they're just mounted on the roof of the building. To be honest I didn't look for or notice any other antenna type things around, but I wasn't really looking for them as the two large dishes dominate the scene at the station. I'll have to check further about all this and get back with an update.

If you were on the equator then the dish would be pointed straight up vertically to put its beam on the geosynch orbit belt. At a latitude of say 40 degrees for your location, the dish would need to point 40 degrees down (off vertical) towards the South to intercept geosynch belt. This should not be an issue for you since the antenna beam is well away from any horizontal ground path and the transmit power level involved is low.

If you are going to build a house, it would be good to put all wiring in metal conduit and ground the conduit to the panel box. If you use Bx cabling, it comes shielded in flexible conduit and is a very good choice.

I have to see about the availability of metal conduit and Bx cable here in Armenia. I've used these to add circuits/outlets in commercial space in our studios in NYC, but need to make sure they're available here. The house up and about a half a kilometer away from the dishes has very many advantages (including its reasonable price). It's brand new, built about two years ago, and never been occupied. While it's a bit small (and the design/decor a bit fancy), we can live in it with all modern amenities while building an addition. And the large land is great, with a beautiful view and in a very good location, all things considered. So we're leaning most to considering purchasing this property right now.

Sounds pretty nice. Bx and conduit are pretty common so I would think availability is good. You can at least use it in the addition for a quieter room(s). Before you buy, though, it would be good to get a cheap gauss meter, turn on all the lights and circuits (plug a few things in) in the house, and check for AC mag fields above about 2mG (.2 microT). This may reveal a wiring error that you can get the seller to fix as part of the sale.

I would go talk to the folks at the station - you may find someone very accommodating that will walk you through everything they have that transmits.

You are doing the right thing by making sure of the EMF environment before you buy! :)

I won't be able to go back to that area until next weekend (end of August/beginning of Sept). So I'll try to get as much additional info as possible as soon as possible.

If you do talk to the station folks, you might also ask (just to be sure) if they have any plans to lease space to a cell tower.

http://www.crscientific.com/trifield1.html

http://www.orgonelab.org/cart/ycellphonemeter.htm

The trifield sensitivity (for RF) is .26 W/m2 which is useless. You want to get down to at least 10 microW/m2. If that meter actually measured any RF, you would want to run for the hills. Its gauss meter would work fine for locating a wiring error. Try to find the "Cell Sensor" - its really just a gaussmeter at about $40.

The orgone lab rf meter is much better with sensitivity of 50 microW/m2. The problem with all of these RF meters is that they are broadband and tell you nothing about the frequency of the signal. For that you need a spectrum analyzer or a meter that will scan various bands. This meter is good enough to tell if you have a problem, but if it reads anything at the property, I would want to know what frequency and where it is transmitting from. The single-axis probe in the unit can be used to find direction by pointing the null in the direction of the signal and noting the signal drop. For a cheap meter its not bad, but you might want to look for rental of the better meters. A German one that will do very well is the Aaronia Spectran 6060 series - it will tell you the frequency as well (but you will want to rent this one).

 

[Sirius]

The trifield sensitivity (for RF) is .26 W/m2 which is useless. You want to get down to at least 10 microW/m2.

I would recommend rather 1 microW/m2 or 0.1 microW/m2. This is what can be considered save for long-term exposure (for sensitive people at least).

The problem with all of these RF meters is that they are broadband and tell you nothing about the frequency of the signal. For that you need a spectrum analyzer or a meter that will scan various bands. This meter is good enough to tell if you have a problem, but if it reads anything at the property, I would want to know what frequency and where it is transmitting from.

It's true, analysing comes after detecting and is much more interesting. Some meters give you a translated audio output of the incoming signal which will tell you rather precisely what the source(s) is/are. Direction is another means of analysing the exposure but it depends which antenna is being used. Those cheap pocket detectors won't offer this feature.

A German one that will do very well is the Aaronia Spectran 6060 series - it will tell you the frequency as well (but you will want to rent this one).

Should work.

 

[monotonic]

Would a simple analog mixer be suitable for bringing interference down to audible frequencies? The mixer would be fed from a variable oscillator and the EMF signal, and by varying the dial to get the audio at the right tone you would be able to find the frequency of the EMF, if not precisely, then approximately. I think this could be done relatively cheaply for lower frequencies. I don't know about the broadband and detection circuitry though.

A thermal RMS chip like the LT1088 would have made EMF detection to 300MHz fairly easy - but this chip was taken off the market ages ago without any suitable replacements provided. No one seems to be sure why. Maybe it was too competitive.

 

[LQB]

Would a simple analog mixer be suitable for bringing interference down to audible frequencies? The mixer would be fed from a variable oscillator and the EMF signal, and by varying the dial to get the audio at the right tone you would be able to find the frequency of the EMF, if not precisely, then approximately. I think this could be done relatively cheaply for lower frequencies. I don't know about the broadband and detection circuitry though.

A thermal RMS chip like the LT1088 would have made EMF detection to 300MHz fairly easy - but this chip was taken off the market ages ago without any suitable replacements provided. No one seems to be sure why. Maybe it was too competitive.

A straightforward way would be to use a swept LO (local oscillator) to drop a portion of the wideband RF into a more narrow band IF that is fixed and filtered prior to detection (basically a diode). The sweep rate would be low enough to capture peak amplitude and average for the pulsed comm signals. The problem with this is dynamic range and intermod products that mess up the detection measurement. Then you need a tracking RF filter at the input that is synched with the LO. All of this gets very expensive to implement in analog H/W. Better to go digital as soon as possible with 16-24 bits (like the Aaronia) and sort things out using digital signal processing techniques - but its still expensive.

 

[mcb]

...A straightforward way would be to use a swept LO (local oscillator) to drop a portion of the wideband RF into a more narrow band IF that is fixed and filtered prior to detection (basically a diode). The sweep rate would be low enough to capture peak amplitude and average for the pulsed comm signals. The problem with this is dynamic range and intermod products that mess up the detection measurement. Then you need a tracking RF filter at the input that is synched with the LO. All of this gets very expensive to implement in analog H/W. Better to go digital as soon as possible with 16-24 bits (like the Aaronia) and sort things out using digital signal processing techniques - but its still expensive.

I keep thinking that in this day and age, all the hardware most people should need is the appropriate receivers and signal processors, interfaced to a PC or Mac. The hardware and software components should already exist, although integrating everything could be a challenge. I am saying this as a software developer that has done hardware and driver development in the past.

Could you refine what you said above in terms of off-the shelf components, if that is possible?

 

[LQB]

...A straightforward way would be to use a swept LO (local oscillator) to drop a portion of the wideband RF into a more narrow band IF that is fixed and filtered prior to detection (basically a diode). The sweep rate would be low enough to capture peak amplitude and average for the pulsed comm signals. The problem with this is dynamic range and intermod products that mess up the detection measurement. Then you need a tracking RF filter at the input that is synched with the LO. All of this gets very expensive to implement in analog H/W. Better to go digital as soon as possible with 16-24 bits (like the Aaronia) and sort things out using digital signal processing techniques - but its still expensive.

I keep thinking that in this day and age, all the hardware most people should need is the appropriate receivers and signal processors, interfaced to a PC or Mac. The hardware and software components should already exist, although integrating everything could be a challenge. I am saying this as a software developer that has done hardware and driver development in the past.

Could you refine what you said above in terms of off-the shelf components, if that is possible?

You can't do this with OTS in any way that is practical. The whole thing needs to be designed together with interfaces that are clean as possible (for analog H/W). For a company, the non-recurring cost of development is high, and they need to be very sure of their market before spending development money. But you can bypass much of this (except the RF front end) by going digital - basically you downconvert to a convenient IF, adjust signal level and sample the hell out of it with high speed A/D converters (8, 12, 16, 24 bits deep). Everything downstream is just software and memory. What used to be an expensive analog filter design is now a DSP filter algorithm. The big guys (companies) can afford A/Ds that gobble up GHz of bandwidth in many bits. Now you can buy PC oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers that are nothing more than a little box that connects to your PC USB. I just bought a PC-O so that I can look at the dirty power noise in detail and characterize it under various conditions. The PC spectrum analyzers (Aaronia for example) are more expensive because of the antenna/RF front end H/W and fast 24 bit A/Ds. Twenty years ago this king of H/W might have cost as much as a house.

Where this all is going is called the "digital antenna". Any antenna goes through an RF front end then into A/Ds for all applications (now done in S/W). Also known as a software defined radio (SDR).

Hope that helps...