Enforcement of VAX escalating

I'm wondering how you can link this with a straight face, when a few pages ago you were shutting down anybody trying to imply vaccines are risky....

I mean, In the 6 degrees to Kevin Bacon game, everyone I meet is at most 2 degrees removed from somebody who suffered a significant adverse events... Hysterical?

I estimate the jab casualty rate around 1/1000 at the low end. By casualty, I mean incapacitation, or worse. Where is the evidence that jabs are safer than that, is what I would ask...

As we all know, there are endless ways to "play" with all these statistics and come to any conclusion. That's what both sides do all the time. Personally, I simply refuse to have anybody, be it from the mainstream or alternative media, gaslight me into believing something that clearly contradicts what I'm seeing. And what I'm seeing is that among the hundreds of people I know who took the vaccine, I cannot say for sure that anybody died, or had serious side effects. One person died and it might have something to do with the vaccine, or it may have played a role, but that is all I can say and I won't blame it on the vax until I have more proof. There are many who had mild side effects, and many who had somewhat more concerning side effects, but nothing serious or life-threatening. So while that may be not representative, it is enough to know for a fact that there is no "vax death pandemic".

And I also heard lots of stories from people I know about Covid infections. Some had very serious issues (like neurological, chronic stuff developing after Covid). Many had a somewhat bad time. And many of course had very mild or no symptoms at all. Of course, you can try to explain it all away, but we can always do that. The point is: neither Covid nor the vax is a "mass killer" or "plague" or "emergency" in the reality where I live. When you simply forget about all the medical hysteria and hyperbole on all fronts for a moment, and just switch off your TV and Twitter, all that's left is a world government terrorizing, bullying and enslaving the people with their tyrannical measures and psychological games. And maybe that's the whole point, no?

Because people are so focused on the vax we perhaps miss the larger tragedy here. And that is the endless seemingly small stories of absolute misery. Like what Joe shared about this guy on facebook whose family is ripped apart. Like the millions of old people rotting away (and dying) lonely. Like those who can't visit their loved ones in hospitals. Like all those families where the kids have to stay home upsetting the whole family. Like all those endless tragedies within families, among friends, at work. Like unemployment, destroyed existences, destroyed dreams. The psychological mayhem caused by the Big Bully. All of these things compromise the immune system and kill people, both short-term and long-term.

So do we want to contribute to the fear, paranoia and division?

A little story - the other day we were invited for dinner with a few people we didn't know. When Covid came up - very late - turns out that one was unvaxed but didn't really want to talk about all that. One was a Covid-fearer who didn't even want to shake hands. And one was vaxed but thought this whole thing is a bit of a scam. She said "look, the vaxed can have serious Covid too, so what's the point? And also I heard that the hospitals mislabel patients as Covid patients to earn more money." Then the Covid-fearer said "Oh, really? Yeah, who knows about all those numbers, nobody I guess." Said the Covid skeptic: "Who knows indeed?" And that was that. Didn't play any role whatsoever for this evening.

This is ALSO part of reality - people just being decent and living their lives, refusing to play along with the divisiveness and button-pushing. But you would never guess if you consume the mainstream media or the alternative media all day. And declaring the vax-apocalypse certainly doesn't help.

So therefore, as Joe made clear earlier, we should BALANCE hysterical claims, no matter from which side, to gain a realistic picture of what's going on and to avid getting sucked into a two-front-narrative war where the truth is the first causality. To regain our psychological health and independence. To remain in a healthy position from which to act in these crazy times that will only get more crazy.
 
The present omicron senario, particularly in the UK media, seems to be one of fear semantics. We haven't yet been informed by the media gods or the government (also gods) that omicron, that dastardly son of delta is equally as vicious in terms of deaths. What the media are doing is using inflammatory words and phrases to make the poplace think that omicron is incredibly dangerous.


For instance this article from the BBC news this morning is set to cause fear and trepidation. A major wave is suggested. A scary phrase but if, as is suspected, omicron is milder than previous mutations, a major wave is nothing of import. It could be a major wave of something akin to cold and flu.

The number of deaths from the variant by the end of April could range from 25,000 to 75,000 depending on how well vaccines perform, they said. How on earth can they possibly know this. They don't even know if the mutation is deadly. The answer is that they don't but they want this to impinge on peoples' minds and take root and scare them.

The authorities are informing people of the very fast spread of omicron because something spreading "very fast" has to be deadly, right?

The article also provides mitigation such as The study is by an influential group of disease modellers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM) who also advise the government - but it is not a crystal ball. It does not say what will happen with the Omicron variant of coronavirus but gives a range of possible outcomes. It doesn't matter that they have provided this mitigation. They have already scared the pants off people over the very carefully selected language they have used to instill fear.

A few other recent articles mention:

Omicron has such a long list of mutations that it was described by one scientist as "horrific", while another told me it was the worst variant they'd seen. The article also goes on to state: But there are also claims that it could be milder than earlier versions of Covid, such as Delta. The majority of folk will not be taking in the latter statement when they have read the words "horrific" and "worst variant they'd seen".

Hopefully some members of the British public still have the nous to see through this projected fear to the actual evidential information but I am not holding my breath.
 
We should also reside in a state of healthy skepticism regarding the pros and cons. I do not see any conflict in presenting a topic in a multifaceted way, as the present situation certainly is. A balanced view is needed here. As far as I understand, we are here to change information and make our own decisions based on the available information, not to convince each other that our point of view is the only true point of view. I am saddened by the fact, that some people find it difficult to express their opinion in a civilized manner, without considering other people's feelings. No one is perfect, but we should work towards becoming the best version of ourselves.
 
Omicron has such a long list of mutations that it was described by one scientist as "horrific", while another told me it was the worst variant they'd seen. The article also goes on to state: But there are also claims that it could be milder than earlier versions of Covid, such as Delta. The majority of folk will not be taking in the latter statement when they have read the words "horrific" and "worst variant they'd seen".
That's hilarious! "Horrific" and "mild" on the same breath. They are trying to scare people with the "mutation" meme. We have all these associations from scifi and popular fiction that mutations are very bad - like what happened to the guy from The Fly movie - or that they confer 'super powers' to the mutant, like the X Men. But in reality, virus mutate all the time, and as a general rule, the more they mutate, the less deadly they turn, probably because of something we have learned from the debate on evolution, natural selection and intelligent design - that the overwhelming majority of random mutations result in deterioration, not 'gain of function'. That is, the organism becomes less efficient, not 'super'. In this case, the virus indeed is literally becoming a common flu.

Now lets contemplate the absurdity of having these two articles from the same source, the Guardian, side by side, published a week apart from each other:

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I wonder how these modellers reached the conclusion that Omicron could result in 75,000 deaths in any given period of time, if the data so far indicates that the death rate is zero. Multiply zero by whatever spread rate you want and you still have zero. Same logic that lead Neil Ferguson to predict half a million deaths in the UK and more than 2 million in the US within a few months, I suppose.
 
The point is: neither Covid nor the vax is a "mass killer" or "plague" or "emergency" in the reality where I live. When you simply forget about all the medical hysteria and hyperbole on all fronts for a moment, and just switch off your TV and Twitter, all that's left is a world government terrorizing, bullying and enslaving the people with their tyrannical measures and psychological games.

And that, IMO, is the objective truth that we're networking to bring to light. The rest is just "straining at gnats" due to emotionally charged thinking. OSIT

But to be clear, I consider the vaccines to be unnecessary and potentially harmful and I have no intention of getting one.
 
I was never incensed or anything close, but feel free to vent and throw shade until you're done.
if you were not vehemently arguing that there is no evidence of vaccine risk, then I really don't understand what you were trying to communicate. Because that is what you were saying, explicitly.
 
if you were not vehemently arguing that there is no evidence of vaccine risk, then I really don't understand what you were trying to communicate. Because that is what you were saying, explicitly.

Well, no. His position was significantly more nuanced than that, and nuance was precisely the point. Joe never said the shot is safe; he simply pointed to the fact that, since a couple billion people have been injected and we don't have a couple billion corpses, it is very far from a death sentence. This is obviously true, and he was basically saying we need to not lose our heads to the hysteria that emerges as a natural consequence of binary thinking - ie "the vaccine is safe and effective" vs "it's a kill shot". Neither position reflects reality.
 
Child abuse ? You bet !!!!

A video posted was posted to Twitter earlier in the week revealing the miserable scene outside of Capitol Hill Elementary School in Portland, Oregon. The elementary school students were filmed eating lunch outside, sitting on buckets, away from friends in 40-degree ( 4.5 C ) temperatures, presumably as part of the school’s COVID-19 mitigation policy.

The shocking video was sent to The Post Millennial on Wednesday showing Kindergarten students at Capitol Hill Elementary School eating lunch outside one of the students’ parents at Capitol Hill Elementary School told The Post Millennial that forcing their children to eat outside was their “final straw” with Portland Public Schools.

This child abuse did not phase the Biden administration — In fact, they support this Hitlerian abuse.

They care about the children's health ????

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."

-- Edward Bernays, "Propaganda", 1928
 
Well, no. His position was significantly more nuanced than that, and nuance was precisely the point. Joe never said the shot is safe; he simply pointed to the fact that, since a couple billion people have been injected and we don't have a couple billion corpses, it is very far from a death sentence. This is obviously true, and he was basically saying we need to not lose our heads to the hysteria that emerges as a natural consequence of binary thinking - ie "the vaccine is safe and effective" vs "it's a kill shot". Neither position reflects reality.
Sure, but the binary thinking was coming the other way. I suggested, risk is plausible, then Joe jumped on asserting no evidence of risk. I suggest binary thinking might have come from that side. Because I never even came close to suggesting it was a kill shot, but that is the strawman that Joe proposed I made, and started a binary argument against.

And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, I spent maybe over a couple hours all in all, rereading and trying to understand the flow of how this conversation unfolded. I still don't see that self-awareness from the other side, tho, the side that argues 'binary thinking is dangerous' while basing itself on a binary evaluation.
 
When you simply forget about all the medical hysteria and hyperbole on all fronts for a moment, and just switch off your TV and Twitter, all that's left is a world government terrorizing, bullying and enslaving the people with their tyrannical measures and psychological games. And maybe that's the whole point, no?
For me? Yes. That’s pretty much the whole point.
 
Well, no. His position was significantly more nuanced than that, and nuance was precisely the point. Joe never said the shot is safe; he simply pointed to the fact that, since a couple billion people have been injected and we don't have a couple billion corpses, it is very far from a death sentence. This is obviously true, and he was basically saying we need to not lose our heads to the hysteria that emerges as a natural consequence of binary thinking - ie "the vaccine is safe and effective" vs "it's a kill shot". Neither position reflects reality.

Precisely. And more than that, I was looking out for other members of this forum who have been vaccinated and were reading this thread without posting on it, and potentially taking away a message that was disheartening and depressing for them, not reflective of our position and not based in reality. Members of this forum don't have to bother themselves with such considerations, but mods do.
 

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