Eric Pepin - Higher Balance Institute - Discussion

[Meg]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

We consciously experimented and came to the understanding that only if I disappeared from the planet would they stop attacking me. And even then, I'm not so sure.

The butterfly effect has and would kick in and they would have to start defaming those of us that believe the message to be true. So, whether you disappear or not, the message and other messengers are out there for all to find and network with if they choose. They're screwed, OSIT today:)

 

[ark]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

Now a days, I want to take a shower after reading one of the VB Brigade's filthy, lying diatribes against Laura. I can certainly empathize with her distress at being the subject of such an attack.

In fact, there is lot of interesting first hand information about psychopatic behavior in all those diatribes. Probably we would not be able to find anything new on this subject if we would rely just on the results of pure academic research. Studying all the monographs and research papers is one thing, but to experience these creatures in real life - that is really really instructive. One example that I think has not been treated by the scholars (and we have tones of both older and most recent monographs and research papers in our library):

once in a while a psychopath would pretend to be "friendly" and "looking for peace". By experience we have learned that iit s nothing but BS. They do not want peace, because peace would take from them the only motivation for living. They just can't do anything original. They are not able to write themselves anything of significance. If they had - they would be busy with creating. But they can only be parasites. Take away the living tree and the parasite dies - nothing to feed upon! Other non-parasitic creatures often join these parasites, because they want to imitate this apparently easy and free of worries about doing anything of significance lifestyle.

Another most interesting observation: these poor creatures have well developed certain low level intellectual capabilities. For instance they can spend hours and days collecting completely insignificant, often false, data and publishing these data as a "discovery". They know from experience that if these data are false, no one will ever question them about spreading these false data. And if someone would question - they would be most happy to show their mastership in being little Goebbels. Some of them are real masters in this kind of activities.

Are they being paid for these activities? Probably they are being paid in some indirect way. For instance they may have have something potentially criminal in their past. As long as they work on disrupting spreading the knowledge that may be somewhat inconvenient for the "powers", they are left alone with their false cv's and their own past involvements with activities that would not be appreciated by the healthy part of the society.

Some of them pretend to be even writers and journalists! Those are probably on a payroll of some agencies. This way we learn better how all this control of the media and internet works. Without them we would have stayed in the state of naiveness!

Yet all of the above is just a working hypothesis. Perhaps I am completely wrong? Perhaps there are other reasons and other motivations? Perhaps. But this is how scientific research works. By collecting data, forming hypotheses and discarding those hypotheses that do not survive the falsification process. A scientist should be stubborn in persevering his/her research but not in being attached to his/her working hypothesis.

Now a little bit about science. I was not actively participating in the discussions on this forum for quite a while because I was (and am) busy with my research. The results are being published in the appropriate scientific journals, but it takes a lot of work to get new results in the areas that go against the fashion. You are alone! Well, with few friends. Right now I am working on the extension of my previous paper that suggested the way how superluminal communication can work. The paper "The Theory of Kairons" should appear in print in the next issue of "Advances in Applied Clifford Algebra". Of course the attacker will laugh: what? Superluminal communication? That is impossible! Especially without the right technology! But do they know anything that matters about the subject? Of course not! So they can only laugh and try to ridicule. Let them have their fun! The fact is that the paper is difficult to understand, and this because of the quite advanced mathematical tools that only few experts in the whole world know, so very few people will ever read it and even less will comprehend.

And how I am getting inspiration for my research? Through the method that all these attackers laugh about and ridicule: I am following the rabbit hole. And the rabit hole in question have the following sign over its entrance:

A: Remember, you do have cycles but that does not necessarily mean cyclical. 3 Dimensional depiction of loop, seek hexagon for more. Geometric theory provides answers for key. Look to stellar windows. Octagon, hexagon, pentagon.
Q: Are those the different levels of density?
A: No, but it relates. Geometry gets you there, algebra sets you "free."

:D

 

[purplehaze]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

purplehaze, is the link you provided http://www.selfpsychology.com/papers/wo … d_rage.htm some of your own work? Some very interesting info!

heh - no that is not my work. It is quite good though

once in a while a psychopath would pretend to be "friendly" and "looking for peace". By experience we have learned that iit s nothing but BS. They do not want peace, because peace would take from them the only motivation for living. They just can't do anything original. They are not able to write themselves anything of significance. If they had - they would be busy with creating. But they can only be parasites. Take away the living tree and the parasite dies - nothing to feed upon! Other non-parasitic creatures often join these parasites, because they want to imitate this apparently easy and free of worries about doing anything of significance lifestyle.

Another most interesting observation: these poor creatures have well developed certain low level intellectual capabilities. For instance they can spend hours and days collecting completely insignificant, often false, data and publishing these data as a "discovery". They know from experience that if these data are false, no one will ever question them about spreading these false data. And if someone would question - they would be most happy to show their mastership in being little Goebbels. Some of them are real masters in this kind of activities.

Beautifully said ark! They say PEACE when they really mean 'come closer so I can beat up on you some more!'

Are they being paid for these activities? Probably they are being paid in some indirect way. For instance they may have have something potentially criminal in their past. As long as they work on disrupting spreading the knowledge that may be somewhat inconvenient for the "powers", they are left alone with their false cv's and their own past involvements with activities that would not be appreciated by the healthy part of the society.

Some of them pretend to be even writers and journalists! Those are probably on a payroll of some agencies. This way we learn better how all this control of the media and internet works. Without them we would have stayed in the state of naiveness!

Their 'payoff' is the reactions they provoke from others. It gives them a sick sense of power & control. To them - everything is a game. Everything is a war in which they MUST emerge victorious - even if only in their own minds.

BTW - anyone read the disclaimer on GLP?

Some events depicted in certain posting and threads on this website may be fictitious and any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some other articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious.

LOLOLOLOLOL

We do not discriminate against the mentally ill!

But they will smear them...

wait... um... how would VB even KNOW someone was mentally ill? Do they even know their own kind?

 

[ark]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

wait... um... how would VB even KNOW someone was mentally ill? Do they even know their own kind?

To understand their possible motives, with their all intricacies it is good to look into what they say themselves in their rare moments of sincerity. And so, some six years ago one of them, quite close to VB, was writing this:

... Your friend has merely tapped into the new wave of the Stargate Conspiracy. These are the people who, under the direction of William Irwin Thompson and L. Rockefeller, are creating a new religion based part on physics and part on new age hooey. This is an extension of the group I once told you about.

Should we think this may be indeed the case? I consider it quite possible. If so, then there are such "groups", and, possibly, there are other "groups" monitoring the activities of these groups.

J R is also very likely one of this group (funder) Braden, who is a nice guy and an old friend is also an ex drunvalo man so he is hiding back there somewhere.

So, if this is the case, there are probably more of those "hiding back there somewhere".

VB was, possibly, once on the outskirts of this group. But his appearance and arrogance would have made him a fringe member at best. I am convinced that VB was watching the activities of this group. He saw their interest in Tenen, Winter and myself in 1996. First he tried Winter but Stan stopped it all in its tracks..

If this is indeed the case, then VB may be still "watching activities" of certain groups and trying to be a fringe member. Perhaps he indeed is a fringe member of this or other group.

The story about Dan Winter and Tenen is partly correct. But only partly. Bceause there are probably invisible links between apparent enemies.

Next he went after me. Why? Because he was trying to work his way into the group. By finding good info, giving it to the group and then publicly destroying that info he thought that they would pat him on the head and say 'good boy.'

The above seems to be a relevant observation. One of the motives of all the attacks may well be in trying to be a 'good boy" in the eyes of some of these "groups". Those who are not able to create anything of significance themselves, they at least attempt to be 'good boys' to those who seem to have some power and knowledge.

The group still rejected him for the above reasons (these are very wealthy people and they like class)!

So, here we are getting a better picture. Those who are not 'class' try, at least, to be 'good boys' to those class and wealthy ones. That explains a lot. Even if the details are not quite right, the overall picture emerges that seems to be quite consistent.

VB was a grifter trying to reach into the big group. He saw you and grifted onto you because he thought that the group did not appreciate AMET. But they did like parts of AMET but my past made them afraid to talk to me (thank goodness). VB was already out of the picture again until he saw you.

So, trying to be a good boy is not an easy task. You get rejected. And because you can't accept rejection, as it hurts, you look for something you can bring into "the group" that will make you a 'good boy" again.

But what he saw about you was not the C's as much as it was Ark. They very likely believe that Ark is an infiltrator or spy of some type.

Such a revelation would certainly bring the messanger into at least 'not-so-bad' boy status. Provided it would be true. Now, if someone brings into the group some 'revelation' that is all wrong, then one becomes a lousy boy. Lousy boy gets angry.

I am also sure that they think you are channeling Set. He is their master and they are very interested in hearing from him and getting his instructions etc.

So, there are some semi-religious stories that are at the very foundations of these 'groups'. Of course, if this is the case, these semi-religious stories, and also possible related rituals, are being kept in secrecy. The public is not supposed to know about them.

Drunvalo and JR as well as many others have tried to get into contact with the big reptile but he usually won't answer.

I know next to nothing about the big reptile. But quite possible that the big reptile is the big Psychopath - the Master of all psychopaths.

Other agencies are very likely interested in you because they think that you may be giving secret instructions through the channeling to agents in eastern Europe.

Now, that eastern Europe is totally controlled and submitted to the Big Powers, this is certainly not the case any more. But these 'other agencies' are very likely interested in us because they do not like the truth being revealed about anything.

The question becomes this: why is this brilliant scientist interested in a woman who channels aliens from C?

This brilliant scientist is interested in a brilliant and most creative and sincere woman. They both share the same pursuit: pursuit for knowledge and truth. This is their way. Channeling experience belongs to the past. Research, research and more research, and also sharing the knowledge with other sincere seekers, is the present.

This is why you are targeted. By being so open you will bring further pressures on yourself.

And here is the key: By being so open you will bring further pressures on yourself.

We are open, we will remain open, and we will bring further pressures on ourselves. Fortunately there are also people who do appreciate our openness, as it is quite a rare feature in our society.

For psychopaths this is indeed something difficult, almost impossible, to swallow: that there may be people who are brilliant, sincere and open. Our forum serves as the attractor for such people.

 

[Larry Ogg]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

What is it that we gather in our thoughts, a cognitive world bereft of just description for lack of words, so we are driven to ponder the chronologies and snippets, searching secrete hidden truths revealed as the dots subtly connect into a perspective of light and feeling of hope, that we may pierce the dark shameless evil, reviled by all yet seen by few, and hidden in words still lacking.
Larry Ogg (2007)

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone, and especially Laura, who devotes so much time and efforts into the research of historical and current facts, facts that should not have ever been forgotten, facts that should not be concealed and facts that are simply not taught in school. For it is, certain facts that when discovered in mass, would help paint a perfect picture and an epitome to those who find reason in hiding the truth and burying it in lies…

I like many people have had the unpleasant experience of having no choice but to deal with pathological types in the real world, long before I understood what they were, although I knew they had some serious mental problems… Unfortunately the only way I knew of dealing with them was to remove myself from their space, fortunately that is sufficient for dealing with some situations. But the painful truth is that too often flight is not an option, and knowledge of having to concede or prepare for a vicious battle can be a very stressful and devastating position to be in, as the psychopath seems to get off on backing their victims into a corner. It’s as if what ever minute reasoning ability they have - is used to drive and teach their victims the concepts of either flight, fright, fight or regress to a deformed and primitive state of knuckle dragging logic and submit too their dilutions and domination.

You can disassociate yourself from family members, get another job, leave town or in some cases even the country; but it seems the variables in this has to do a lot with your position on the world stage; the size and type of trophy the psychopath desires, and of course, one has to ask, are they trying to impress someone besides their self?

And Laura, there is one thing I’m sure you know, but if not for your hard work and efforts, I and many others would not be able to be a part of this discussion, nor would we be able to inform and bring other people in to it. I know your attackers want to drag you down, but I hope you can gain strength from the sheer fact that your work is depriving them of their prey, and if I can help do the same I will; because the more people that become informed, the harder it is going to be for them to play their favorite sport, i.e. hurting their victims.

So what to do? What is the best defense against brainless idiots and agents? I think there is one simple solution - expand, be more creative and more productive. The attack may serve as wonderful boosts for being even more productive!!! And this is, I think, the best method for everyone in every case under every circumstance.

Hi ark, it’s nice to meet you, and I thought seeing as how you brought it up I would offer my two cents worth as well as some idea’s, and personal perspective, I hope it is of some use…

When the first Ponerology thread came out on Democratic Underground (DU), I was thrown into a state of shock. As the author, Time for change (Tfc), had confided with me as how to present it because I was the one that recommended it to him. One issue of great importance to me was, as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, what I told him.

I think most people will find this subject interesting, and maybe even a little apprehensive for some; might this explain your concern as how to present it, if so I share the same concern, you want to say the right things so people will become interested and want to learn more, but on the other hand you don’t want to sound like your talking in Greek, offend their belief system, scare them off or overload them to the point ware their heads explode. But I think their curiosity will make it interesting for them, and they will begin to examine their own mind though introspection, but like I said if they start to get overloaded and confused, apprehension might become a factor, but then I have tendency to be overly cautious; I know some people will be able to absorb more than others.

So the reason for the attack was to do exactly what we were trying to avoid, scare everyone off and make their heads explode…

Anyhow on with the story.
When I first received my Ponerology book, I also received the little Signs of the Times book marker with the sott web address, of which I immediately decided to visit.

Don’t get me wrong, as I’m not trying to be critical, and I had planned to bring this up once I got to know my way around the site better, as well as make myself known, and I certainly didn’t want to end up in the “baked noodle” forum… Anyhow as I was saying, when I first began to come too the sott web site I found it to be some what intimidating, both in content and in navigation, I will explain in brief.

As to the content part, I was personally more worried about what other people would think because I, in my younger days, managed to wonder outside what friends and family considered as the conventional paradigm of religious group think and indoctrination, which of course totally freaked out the totally naïve people in my life who were conditioned to freak out if anyone they knew wondered outside of the paradigm, they or myself, didn’t even know existed. The point is that sott, Laura, Ark, many of the people that come to this site, including myself, are open minded and definitely outside of the paradigm of contemporary group think, and the psychopaths that attack Laura and this site use that as a weapon, so maybe we can take that weapon away from them and use it as it was intended, depriving the psychopaths of their prey…

As per the navigation part. The reason I first came to sott was to get some information on the subject I was learning i.e. ‘Ponerology’. Because it seems my experience with reading it, was like what so many others have said, it is very difficult, and for good reason, it is not a book one typical reads, and I tell people, it is more like learning a new language, only easier. And in order to finish reading it once, I had to read the first half three times; but was it ever worth it…

One of the difficulties I had to overcome with the book was, as I have heard many others say, is its wordiness, but to me, that was like a secret bonus lesson within the book itself, in that it taught me a greater appreciation for words. I even ended up creating my own dictionary of which I still add to on occasion. But the real problem with the wordiness of the book is that people are taught to read and take word meanings in context of the sentence, and doing that with Ponerology seems to work as a great sedative, but doesn’t do much for learning the subject. So a dictionary is a must…

Another difficulty with the book is its lack of in depth examples or case studies while learning some of the many concepts and character types. I do however understand why it was done this way, as Lobaczewski explained to the affect, that other books will fill in the gaps, and that’s all fine and good. But I imagine many people did the same thing as I did and surf the net looking for answers, and when I ran into the negative anti Ponerology stuff, I totally ignored it, that’s not to say others would do the same. So I’m thinking Ponerology work shops or Forums for the beginner would be of great benefit, ware maybe someone could sign up, ask some basic questions, have discussion, get article links and book references etc. Kind of like what happened over at Democratic Underground (DU) minus all the attacks. And by the way, I think that turned out to be a great experience for a lot of people considering what happened.

In addition, I think maybe a banner on the sott home page that links the newcomers to a newcomer forum page that explains the rules and what sott is about in terms that the sott controls and not the psychopaths who want to scare them off. Why do I think that Ponerology newcomers need to be guided around the site? (Remember I’m overly cautious) Because sott deals with some very complicated human experiences besides Ponerology, and I think that will scare some people off, because it’s outside of the paradigm of thought that they are accustom too, and the attackers are using that to explain what sott and Laura is about, on their twisted and distorted terms, and that is their greatest weapon.

But I believe that influence can be dealt with if sott has a forum for newcomers in which these issues can be handled and dealt with before the psychopaths have a chance to scare them off.

I hope this is of some help…
Larry

 

[purplehaze]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

Here's VB's latest "poor me" about us calling him on his psychopathic nonsense:

VB: I don't know which sickens me more, being compared to the real predators cited above by purplehaze or reading LKJ's protestations of innocence. "Well, we tried all those approaches..." Right, in a pig's eye you did... _http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message115499/pg151

Some insight on this tactic:

CONTROL BY TEMPER TANTRUM
by Kathy Krajco

Life with a narcissist is a never-ending put-down. How does he or she force the other members of the family to put up with it?

The narcissist just does whatever it takes to make them submit to her abuse. Any complaint goes in one ear and out the other, as if unhearing it annihilates it. Then the narcissist flies in the face of the complaint by repeating the offense, more forcefully and with contempt. She thus trains her family to submit by teaching them that demanding better treatment only gets them worse treatment.

What if that doesn't work? To repulse any further insistence that she treat them with respect, she just throws a temper tantrum.

One might as well try to talk into the blast of a foghorn. Sheer volume and irrationality can silence the other party, because nobody beyond the age of reason will degrade themselves by getting down to her three-year-old spoiled-brat-throwing-a-fit level to argue with her. Nonetheless, terror tactics, like hateful looks and a threatening posture in a menacing advance, or even windmilling fists, may be part of the tantrum.

Every narcissist I have known has such uncanny skill in perverting the course of logic that every statement one makes bounces off his or her forehead twisted a full 180 degrees. They grab some word near the front of your sentence and blast off with it in God-knows-what direction to yell you down in a whirlwind of bewilderment.

One might as well argue with a cantankerous three-year-old.

And the Projection Machine gets going like crazy. I mean really crazy.

For example, here's how one man I knew reacted to any complaint about his insulting treatment of others or his jumping all over his kid for trying to get attention: he always bawled "WAAH!" Get off my BAAAAACK!"

That's right, he told the jumped on party to get off his back!

Presumably this crackpot thought he was imitating the person complaining to him about his insulting treatment of her. He was making her out to be the big baby ... in the very act of bawling like a big baby for her to get off his baaaaack! Projection of his big babyhood in the very act of being a big baby.

So, give it up. Narcissists do not permit you to communicate with them. They pervert everything and just blast it back in your face. Not one word you say can get through that wall of flak. To twist everything a full 180 degrees, they use anti-rationality and acting crazy as debating tactics.

I think they have a fear of communication taking place and frantically try to block it. So, trying to have a talk with them makes as much sense as trying to have a talk with a dumb beast.

You get nothing but Nimrodian nonsense out of them. It's enough to make the head spin. The offender makes the offended the offender. There's no end to this shit. There is no getting through that irrational wall of flak. They will do anything to make you give up and be silent.

Presumably that's because, as I mentioned above, narcissists want their unanswered say. When they accuse you, you mustn't answer the accusation. When they insult you, you mustn't answer to tell them not to insult you. When they treat you abusively, you mustn't answer to complain about it. You must shut up and docilely submit to it.

For, remember, you are worthy of NO attention, no regard, no consideration, and so forth. They won't even listen to you speak.

Narcissists are desperate to shut you up so you don't answer them, lest human voices wake them there in the Land of Pretend and they drown.

How desperate? So desperate that they go nuts if you won't shut up. From what I've seen and heard, it's common for them to threaten to call the police on a family member who won't just shut up and take it but insists on a chance to speak.

To deny you your right to speak, the narcissist just blabbers at the top of her lungs to drown you out. Or refuses to stay put and listen. She obdurately refuses to let you say anything she doesn't want you say. If it's not in her script, she won't let you say it.

You are supposed to shut up and just bend over for her abuse, to play along and pretend with her that she is God Almighty and you are dirt who deserves to be treated like that.

Do it or she will get so obnoxious that it will make you scream.

Malignant Narcissism's Imaginary Self
Narcissists throw temper tantrums because their personality development was arrested (at least in some aspects) at the stage of three-year-old. Again, let's remember what Mark Twain said about an infant's temper tantrum:

I was nine days old at the time, and had noticed that if a pin was sticking in me and I advertised it in the usual fashion, I was lovingly petted and coddled and pitied in a most agreeable way and got a ration between meals besides. It was human nature to want to get these riches, and I fell. I lied about the pin — advertising one when there wasn't any.

In other words, a temper tantrum is just a baby's lie. Baby acts enraged, like something is killing him. Why? To command your attention and control your behavior.

You can tell it's a lie — a melodramatic acting job — because Baby turns it on and off as if by throwing a switch. It's just his way of saying, "Don't go there" when you do something other than he wants you to. His way of saying, "Pet and coddle and humor me if you want any peace."

That's exactly what a narcissist does. And, like an infant, he is liable to hit you in one of his fits — in the same mindless state of mind as an infant hits its mother: as though you are but an object, a naughty toy, not a human being.

So, in a crucible, such as a home, the only way to coexist with a narcissist is to just let the brat have his way. He wants all the toys in his corner of the room so that nobody else can have any.

Often he is the man of the family. Since nothing short of beating him up for it could make him share his drug, his wife and children have no recourse. Nevertheless, if the man of the family is a real man, who will not use physical force on a woman or child, a narcissistic wife can be just as big a bully as the stereotypical narcissistic father.

The situation is better today, now that we are rid of the religious and social taboos against divorce that formerly doomed a narcissist's family to the hell that is his home. Also, today women have earning power, which allows them to escape without condemning their children to poverty. Nonetheless, the narcissists I have known had ingenious, even diabolical ways of trapping their spouse and making him or her financially dependent. For example, they immediately get their spouse pregnant and keep her pregnant so that, by the time Dr. Jekyll's mask is off, she has several babies and no job. Or, they seek out a woman who already has several young children, heroically insist that she quit working, and cunningly manipulate the situation to burn the bridges behind her. Or they stealthily calumniate their prey to get them fired and destroy their career, then play the part of a rescuer to support them. The prey is usually a spouse, but it can be a child, a sibling, a parent, or any other unfortunate person who can't just walk away.

Though allowing a narcissist to get away with it is a big mistake, people do this because of their GOOD qualities. Indeed, the narcissist preys on the good qualities of normal, decent people. It is their GOODNESS that betrays them.

That's because normal, decent people don't like to fight. Also, they are rational and therefore know that the narcissist himself is the one degraded by the stupid game he plays, not them. Moreover, they have self-respect, so they can't bring themselves to stoop to the level he brings an argument down to. So, they rise above it, allowing the overgrown child to have his way in treating them without respect.

Unfortunately, thus, they spoil the brat, teaching him that his tactics work.

Since he can't live up to the basic standards of decency, they allow God the lower set of standards he needs, expecting no better behavior from him. Quite correctly, they see that he is inferior and incapable of better behavior. But there is a terrible pitfall in thus allowing him to relate to them inappropriately, as though he deserves all attention and they are insignificant. Thus, the whole family engages in tragic role playing that insidiously stamps its face on their character.

No wonder the narcissist gets grandiose delusions and believes that he really is something special. No wonder he takes on a dominant character becomes a domineering person.

And no wonder that his family becomes docile, even to the point of reduction to a state of victimhood. In fact, in a Christian society, they are pressured by outside forces to do so, because their anger (which is a feeling, not an act of the free will) is somehow regarded as a sin, and docile victimhood is somehow touted as a Christian virtue. Though it takes strong people to take narcissistic abuse, submitting docilely to it is bad for the backbone.

And the double standard thus established is insidious. By expecting no better behavior from the narcissist, his family makes him infallible. That is, he cannot be faulted for anything he does. So, who is to blame for his behavior then? You guessed it — the victim.

http://www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/forcingsubmissiontoabuse.htm

 

[Laura]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

Here's VB's latest "poor me" about us calling him on his psychopathic nonsense:

VB: I don't know which sickens me more, being compared to the real predators cited above by purplehaze or reading LKJ's protestations of innocence. "Well, we tried all those approaches..." Right, in a pig's eye you did... _http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message115499/pg151

As a matter of fact, we spent a couple of days holding off on saying or doing anything regarding Vinnie and his conference while we tried to talk sense into him. He just couldn't get it. Then, when we canceled the conference appearance - well over 6 weeks in advance - and he wrote a huge temper tantrum email, sending it out to about 200 people, pretty much saying that we would be responsible for refunding people's money, that's when I let people know that he had to refund it by law. There are still a couple of people he did not refund.

Then, he and StormBear launched their relentless attack on the net which we tried to ignore as much as possible. Oh, we tried to answer some things, trying to find common ground, but there was no talking to those two screaming, kicking babies. And, of course, Andy was like an attack dog; no matter how many times I said "do NOT engage on our behalf" he went out and did it anyway. Now he's "their attack dog." That was one situation where it was definitely true "with friends like that, who needs enemies?"

And, of course, we have a full archive of the public discussion board where most of their ranting and raving was going on (Matrioska).

So, I can prove, with hard data, emails, documents, that we most certainly did try to sort this thing out in a civilized way. Problem is: Vinnie and gang just aren't civilized as Ark quoted above. He was unable to read the cues that were being signaled repeatedly, and he just kept digging himself in deeper and deeper and looking more and more pathological with every word.

It's actually humorous to read this:

VB: I don't know which sickens me more, being compared to the real predators cited above by purplehaze or reading LKJ's protestations of innocence. "Well, we tried all those approaches..." Right, in a pig's eye you did... _http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message115499/pg151

That's his real problem. He can't see that the two are inextricable, that his being compared to a predator is directly related to his inability to see that we DID "try all those approaches."

What he's really upset about is that we didn't shut up permanently and let him just mow us down and never complain about it. How dare we have backbone and refuse to be victimized. Because, of course, that is what he really means when he says "In a pigs eye." We refused to let him get away with his crap.

 

[purplehaze]

Psychopath Attack on Democratic Underground

What he's really upset about is that we didn't shut up permanently and let him just mow us down and never complain about it. How dare we have backbone and refuse to be victimized. Because, of course, that is what he really means when he says "In a pigs eye." We refused to let him get away with his crap.

PRECISELY Laura!!! You nailed it. The truth, reality - the psychopath will do ANYTHING to silence it. We have been discussing doing a post about the threats, complaints and cyber-foot-stamping we get from our predators. The most COMMON & FREQUENT complaints (from psychopaths who don't really even KNOW each other):

- You called me a PREDATOR! I am not a PREDATOR! (they loathe that word... heh heh)
- Stop it!! You are hurting my family/ wife/ husband/ partner/ my children are surfing the web now/ my friends/ coworkers are very upset - followed up with nasty emails from the wife/ partner/ friends.... (sometimes the cyberpath in disguise)
- You have linked to my website/ my blog/ my forum and now I am getting HATE MAIL!!
- Remove the chat/email excerpts between myself and my (target/s) - you must have altered/ falsified them!
- Remove the chat/email excerpts between myself and my (target/s) they are hurting my spouse/partner/ kids never mind the pain, PTSD and trauma they caused the targets - the predators could CARE LESS
- You people are sick, hateful and liars

A couple of our victims have posted sites of their own (http://predatoralert07.wordpress.com and http://lissadaly.blogspot.com - just 2 examples. There are others) and the cyberpaths go POSTAL trying to get them taken down. They click the "REPORT THIS SITE" buttons, file with the FBI or local police, send hate mail, send lies to the blog platform hosts. It's unreal. Anything to shut you up. Which is bogus. We tell the victims - TELL TELL TELL - abuse only thrives in the dark. Don't let the truth be silenced!

There's more but you get the gist.

VB: Thank you purplehaze for demonstrating clearly your objectivity...

LOL - so now our 'objectivity' depends on the approval of VB. Because according to a pathological - they know best & are always right. They somehow know who is & who is not objective... based of course, on if you agree with their version of 'facts' or not. Telling...

Here's what Dr. Steve says on Donna Anderson's blog (www.lovefraud.com/blog):

Perhaps you’ve encountered it: the psychopath does something wrong, but the moment attention is drawn to this he (usually it’s he) magically causes you to feel bad.

Here are a few examples:
1. The wifebeater says: “Why are you making me do this!?”
Consequently she may think: “It’s true, I shouldn’t do X [usually something insignificant] because it makes him upset.” Do you see? Suddenly she’s the baddie.

2. “Shut up. At least I’m not as bad as OJ [or someone heinous]”.
In other words, You don’t appreciate me; you should be grateful, but instead you get upset about what I do. You, you, you (not me).

3. She (sometimes psychopaths are women) says: “Why are you so mad with me about this? Of all the things I’ve done before this doesn’t even make the Top 10!”
In other words, Hey, I’m actually improving; you’re the bad one for noticing that I’ve done something bad.

You get the picture. The moving stories by readers of LoveFraud.com cite many instances of this kind of misdirection.

The best technical term I’ve encountered for this mode of discourse favoured by the psychopath is paramoralism. It was coined by the scholar Andrew M. Lobaczewski

Here’s my definition:

A paramoralism is a psuedo-moral statement. It is stated in moral-like terms but with precisely the opposite intent and effect: to get what he wants and to bamboozle the other person into being unable to use their normal means of knowing right and wrong.

Keep an eye out for paramoralisms. Not because everyone who uses a paramoralism is a psychopath, of course. But I believe that we can develop our abilities to identify when someone is cleverly turning defence into attack in this way, and thus we can resist accepting moral blame that does not belong to us.

Dr Steve's website: http://thetoptwoinches.wordpress.com

We'll all keep telling the truth Laura. And support you in telling yours.

 

[Mikey]

This passage from Dr. Barbara E. Hort's Book Unholy Hungers (page 52) also sheds light on the dynamic at hand; Gurus as charismatic persons who feed from their flock like vampires (emphasis, mine):

Of course, in order to be a vampire with the drawing power of Lecter and Dracula, one must be a person of unusual force and charisma. Unusual, yes, but it is all too easy to cite real-life examples. Think for a moment of the infamous gurus of our time. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, Jim Jones, David Koresh of the Branch Davidians -- these are all men who held their victims captive with personal charisma and promises of transcendence over pain and death. And these are only the vampires whose plans have gone awry, the ones whose abortive predation has swept the headlines. For every one of these deposed vampires, there are many more who continue to feed on the energy of their adoring flocks. Their messages may differ, but their strategies are the same. They all offer their followers morsels of divine dispensation, in exchange for the followers' gushingly reverential attitude toward the vampiric guru.

How can we spot this kind of vampire? Charismatic vampirism is operating any time a leader or teacher sets himself up to be a conduit of wisdom, truth, or divinity that is not directly available to lesser mortals. I am thinking of a particular example in which the teacher of an "enlightened" community shared with his cluster of followers his personal version of truth, which, he assured them, was the core of Truth itself. And perhaps he was correct. But it seemed as if the teacher also bestowed his wisdom upon his flock as a kind of reward for their acknowledgment of his specialness (while bestowing on certain female followers some additional blessings of a sexual nature). Eventually, the teacher implied that his followers' membership in his flock had exalted them to a status above other, less "enlightened" mortals. Thus, the teacher secured his followers' devotion by appealing to their honest desire for transcendence, their personal sense of insufficiency, and their human yen for specialness. And just as the teacher fed off his followers' subordinate status on the pyramid of "enlightenment," so his followers fed off the subordinate status of those who (they had learned) were less "enlightened" than they.

The teacher in this story displays most of the symptoms of charismatic vampirism. But beyond these, there is one sure way to know whether someone we admire is acting as a charismatic vampire or simply a wise soul. When we approach the person, how does he respond to us? If the object of our esteem is acting nonvampirically, he will greet our admiration by holding up a double-sided mirror. The mirror shows us that the power we perceive in the teacher is actually a projection of our own power, and it also invites us to look for the blemishes that attest to our own humanity. Similarly, the teacher's side of the mirror will render an honest reflection that shows the teacher, every time he teaches, to be a human blend of implicit power and explicit weakness. The vampiric guru, on the other hand, will greet our admiration by holding up a magnifying glass, with the glass positioned such that it both magnifies (or more precisely, inflates) our perception of the vampire's glory, while it diminishes the vampire's perception of us. This mirror-or-magnifying-glass test is, in fact, a good way to spot many kinds of psychic vampire, since all vampires will want to magnify their power in our regard, while simultaneously diminishing our power in theirs.

The mirror-or-magnifying-glass test is also consistent with the lore that vampires cast no reflection in a mirror and, in fact, that they detest all reflective surfaces. In Stoker's novel, Dracula snatches up a little shaving mirror and smashes it in a frenzy of rage. This scene tells us that we can break through the poised assurance of most psychic vampires by confronting them with a mirror of their vampiric behavior. Although the myth doesn't say so, however, it is only a certain type of mirroring that the vampire detests. Vampires seek to exploit others, and anything that feeds their sense of power, particularly in comparison to others, will be perceived as a good thing. A mirror full of compliments is ambrosia to most vampires.

What charismatic vampires loathe is a mirror that casts a true reflection, one that includes both strength and weakness, both light and shadow. The nonvampiric teacher, in contrast, knows what Heraclitus knew: the mirror is essential to true teaching, because the real teacher is truth itself, both dark and light, and truth is always hidden in our midst and in ourselves. Thus, the nonvampiric teacher will want all students to look in the mirror for their inner truth, both dark and light, so they won't project it outward onto the teacher. This is the only way that true teaching can occur, because the teacher is not burdened with inflationary projections, and the students are not disabled or deluded by projecting away their own power. What's more, when the students refrain from viewing the teacher as a source of truth, the teacher's vampire archetype is less likely to be activated by the students' projection of superhumanity.

A charismatic vampire can don the guru mantle in many settings, not necessarily religious. He can work his "guru whammy" in any corporation where he has accumulated sufficient power to set himself up as a demideity. And charismatic vampires have historically plagued the political arena; Caesar, Napoleon, Hitler, and Joe McCarthy were all leaders whose psyches were driven by the charismatic vampire. And the field of fine arts has been rife with charismatic vampires, such as Rodin and Picasso, who fuelled their work with the creative energy of their families, lovers, and protégés.

But beyond these notorious examples, some of the most nefarious cases of charismatic vampirism occur in the healing professions -- particularly in my own field of psychology. As the Jungian analyst Adolf Guggenbühl-Craig has observed in his landmark book Power in the Helping Professions, we who are in the business of healing the psyche are haunted by the vampiric shadows of our quasi-medical, quasi-spiritual profession. Specifically, because we can easily be misled by the projections of our clients or by our ignorance of ourselves, we are in constant danger of becoming charlatans who peddle spurious treatments for purely personal gain or false prophets who spout facetious dogma for purely personal aggrandizement. [...]

 

[Laura]

Question: How many of you have been taking screenshots of this forum thread as it has progressed? Could any of you who have done so, please contact me privately so that I can collect all screenshots in one place?

 

[dant]

Sent to sott@sott.net, screenshots 1 through 25 of this thread.
(It's big: 110MB!!!)

Hope this helps... :/

Dan

[Edit]
Oh... email was rejected. Probably due to file-size email limitations.
Not sure what to do at this point...
[/Edit]

 

[Laura]

Can you save it onto a CD and send by mail?


Also, any past screenshots that anyone may have taken, please do the same.

 

[dant]

Hi Laura,

I think there is a better way, now that I think about it :P - I will put the
zipped file onto my server, and email you the location? This will be much
faster, and cheaper.

Is this acceptable?

 

[Laura]

Works for me!

 

[dant]

Hi Laura.

I sent out a private note to sott@sott.net. Please let me know if you got
the email message, was able to obtain the zip-file, so that I can delete
it from my server. You can reply here or via my email, whatever works
best for you!