FOTCM Member
So, their marketing scheme is working then? The daily Trouw was right reporting that it was unlikely that the number of euthanasia requests had decreased last year. It seems to me that they are cooking the numbers. And that bill for 'assisted suicide' at the end of a 'completed life' is simply evil.:curse:

I think we can expect more documentaries and newspaper articles extolling the virtues of AS soon when it comes to people with psychiatric issues, since the government has slashed the budget and these people are now out on the streets, giving police officers extra work. OSIT.


The Living Force
The way I interpret these latest news reports is a bit different. To me it seems more like a shift from regular caretakers (mostly GP's) to the Euthanasia Expertise Center than an absolute increase of cases across the board. This shift is caused by the harsher actions of the public prosecutors around so called 'complex' cases like when dementia is involved. Many doctors increasingly shy away from such cases and the Euthanasia Expertise Center is burdened with the the extra care.


FOTCM Member
The way I interpret these latest news reports is a bit different. To me it seems more like a shift from regular caretakers (mostly GP's) to the Euthanasia Expertise Center than an absolute increase of cases across the board. This shift is caused by the harsher actions of the public prosecutors around so called 'complex' cases like when dementia is involved. Many doctors increasingly shy away from such cases and the Euthanasia Expertise Center is burdened with the the extra care.

Not only because of the prosecutors I think. I think also because GPs are generally scared when it comes to a decision that actually takes a life. When they do it, they usually prefer the person with dementia to take the drink, and not assist in that action. But it's a difficult sight: seeing someone who has no clue what's going on taking a drink that will take his/her life. It's difficult for a GP with a conscience. There is one GP who had done this, and he cried that night.

When a person with early dementia has good cognitive abilities and decision-making ability, they can write down whether they want euthanasia or not when those abilities decrease or are lost. But when the time comes, GPs experience difficulty knowing whether the person with dementia still wants to go through with it or not. From what I know, there are very few GPs who would do this. When family members sometimes push the issue, pressuring the GP into performing euthanasia, saying that this is what the person with dementia wants/wanted, the question is: are family members pushing this because they are burdened or stressed out from taking care of their family member and want it to end? Just some thoughts.


The Living Force
Oxajil, I agree completely. Thanks for your addition.

I only answered Mariama on one aspect of her reaction which seemed faulty to me and didn't have time for more.


The Living Force
UPDATE on post #148 .
Source: Doctor acquitted of murder in euthanasia for dementia patient

Doctor acquitted of murder in euthanasia for dementia patient

By Janene Pieters on September 11, 2019 - 13:46

Update, 3:00 p.m., 11 September 2019: This story was updated with statements from the court.

The court in The Hague acquitted a nursing home doctor of patient's murder. The now-retired doctor was careful and followed the euthanasia protocol established in Dutch law when she performed euthanasia on a woman in the advanced stages of dementia, the court said in a statement.

This case revolved around the death of a 74-year-old woman with advanced dementia. While she was still lucid, the woman made a declaration that she did not want to end up in a nursing home and wanted euthanasia when she considered it was the "right time". In addition to the ambiguity of the "right time", the woman also gave alternating signals once in the nursing home. "At certain times she indicated that she did not want to die", the Prosecutor said when the trial started. The doctor eventually performed euthanasia "in close consultation with the family", and after two independent doctors determined that she was suffering unbearably.

According to the Public Prosecutor, there was grounds for charging the doctor with murder because she should have spoken further with the patient about the termination of her life. As the doctor did not do so, the due care requirements in the law were not met, the Prosecutor argued.

The court disagreed that the due care requirements were not met and acquitted the doctor. "Midway through 2015 the patient deteriorated rapidly," a statement from the court said, adding that by January 2016 she "no longer knew what the word 'euthanasia' meant." The doctor consulted with the patient's husband about the woman's statement declaring she wished to end her life, signed years earlier.

The doctor spent more time with the patient, and further consulted with the woman's daughter, medical team, and the nursing home staff where the patient resided. "The image that emerged from all of the observations and conversations was that of a deeply demented, incapable lady who had undergone and continued to undergo a huge shock to her person. Medications to relieve her condition didn't help," the court said.

Further consultation with medical personnel led to the act of ending the patient's life on April 22, 2016. Three years later, a disciplinary panel investing the case determined it did not meet the strict criteria for lawful euthanasia in the Netherlands.

The Prosecutor demanded no punishment against the doctor, expressing more concern over a possible lack of clarity in the Dutch law concerning patient's who lose mental acuity. "The norm that was violated was unclear and the doctor can only be blamed to a limited extent", the Prosecutor said during the trial.

This was the first ever case in the Netherlands in which a doctor was prosecuted for euthanasia since the introduction of the Termination of Life on Request and Assistance with Suicide Act in 2002.

Similar coverage:
Doctor who euthanised patient with severe dementia is not guilty of murder -

Sources in Dutch:
ECLI:NL:RBDHA:2019:9506, Rechtbank Den Haag, 09/837356-18
Artsen huiverig na vonnis euthanasie: ‘Wilsverklaring is geen waardebon’
Bij de uitvoering van euthanasie staat de arts op de rem


The Living Force
Source: Euthanasia monitor will take context into account after landmark ruling -

Euthanasia monitor will take context into account after landmark ruling

September 12, 2019

The commission charged with monitoring cases of euthanasia in the Netherlands is to take context into account when assessing if the rules have been properly met, chairman Jacob Kohnstamm has said.

Kohnstamm was speaking in the wake of Wednesday’s court ruling, in which judges said a doctor charged with murdering an elderly patient with severe dementia had acted with ‘proper care’ and found her not guilty.

The doctor, who has since retired, did not have to verify the patient’s wish to die with her because she was incapable of responding, the judges said. The woman had drawn up a living will some years before her admission to the nursing home and had regularly stated that she wanted to die.

‘The judge was clear,’ Kohnstamm told broadcaster NOS [in Dutch]. ‘Do not just look at the actual letter of the law but look at the patient’s history.’

Doctor Constance de Vries, who works at a special clinic which helps people with euthanasia requests if their own doctor refuses, said the court ruling was a breakthrough for people who are no longer capable of expressing their wish to die.

‘This means that euthanasia is no longer impossible for patients in this situation,’ she said. A living will ‘is something which you and your relatives can fall back on and it says something about how a patient thought about things before they became ill.’


The public prosecution department, which brought the case against the doctor, said she should have verified her patient’s wish to die with her. Because this did not happen, the doctor broke the law, the department said.

It was also critical of the doctor’s decision to give the woman a sedative in her coffee before the euthanasia drugs.

The court, however, said it supported the doctor’s decision to put a sedative in the woman’s coffee because it had made her as comfortable as possible. The sedation took place with the full knowledge of her family.


The Living Force
Source: Prosecutor takes dementia patient's euthanasia to Supreme Court

Prosecutor takes dementia patient's euthanasia to Supreme Court

By Janene Pieters on September 26, 2019 - 10:57

The Public Prosecutor filed cassation at the Supreme Court in the case of a nursing home doctor who was recently acquitted of murder for performing euthanasia on a woman with advanced dementia. There are legal questions the Prosecutor wants answered in this case, but it does not want to put the doctor through an appeal so is therefore going directly to the Supreme Court, the Public Prosecution Service (OM) said in a statement.

This case revolves around the euthanasia of a 74-year-old woman with advanced dementia in April of 2016. The woman had written an advanced directive stating that she wanted euthanasia if she was admitted to a nursing home due to her dementia and that she wanted to determine the right time. But once she was in a nursing home, the woman gave mixed signals about her wish to die. In close consultation with the woman's family, and after two independent doctors determined that she was suffering unbearably, the nursing home doctor performed euthanasia.

The Public Prosecutor argued that the doctor had not met all due care requirements for euthanasia in this case. According to the Prosecutor, the doctor should have spoken further with the patient about the termination of her life. The Prosecutor demanded no punishment against the doctor, but wanted her convicted of murder.

But the court in The Hague disagreed and acquitted the doctor in a ruling earlier this month. The court considered it proven that the doctor ended the woman's life at her explicit and serious request by performing euthanasia.

"The OM does not agree with the judgment of the court, but also realize how burdensome the case is for the nursing home doctor", the Prosecutor said. The OM agrees that the facts have been established, but still wants clarity on a number of legal questions. Which is why the Prosecutor is taking this case directly to the Supreme Court. "This spares the doctor from facing appeal proceedings."

"With this case, the OM foremost wants to gain clarity on how doctors should deal with euthanasia on incapacitated patients. The OM wants legal certainty to be created for doctors and patients about this important issue in euthanasia legislation and medical practice. It is also important for the social and political debate to get as much clarity as possible about the interpretation of the law." the Prosecutor said.

Similar coverage:
Public prosecutor refers dementia euthanasia case to Supreme Court -

Sources in Dutch:
OM vraagt Hoge Raad opheldering over euthanasiezaak demente vrouw
OM zet ongebruikelijke stap in euthanasiezaak - in het belang van de arts


The Living Force
UPDATE on post #91 (March 1, 2017; the Fabio Antoniani, a.k.a DJ Fabio, case).

Source (Dutch only):
Hooggerechtshof Italië: euthanasie in bepaalde gevallen toegestaan

DeepL Translator said:
NOS News - Abroad - Wednesday 25 September, 22:57

Supreme Court Italy: euthanasia allowed in certain cases

Euthanasia is now permitted in Italy under certain conditions. This is the result of a ruling by the Italian Supreme Court in a groundbreaking case about the end of life of a music producer.

The Supreme Court was asked to pass judgment on the case of Fabiano Antoniani, also known as dj Fabo. Five years ago, he was completely paralyzed in a car accident and became blind as well. Human rights activist Marco Cappato, who strives for legal euthanasia, was saddened by his ordeal and drove Antoniani to Switzerland in 2017 where doctors performed euthanasia on him.

According to Cappato, there was no doubt that Antoniani wanted to die. A month before his death, the producer even had written down in a letter to President Mattarella: "It feels like I'm trapped in a cage. I choose to die without suffering."

Once back in Italy, Cappato reported himself to the police. He was facing a 12-year prison sentence, but he wanted to enforce a trial because he thought the law was flawed.

A judge in Milan, who had to judge incitement to or assistance in suicide, referred the case to the Constitutional Court to clarify the law. The court initially gave politicians time to come up with a new euthanasia position, but because of the political chaos in the country, that had not happened.

Irreparable injuries

The case was very controversial in Italy, and the Pope felt compelled to speak out against euthanasia again last week. "We can and must resist the temptation to use medication to satisfy a sick person's possible desire to die."

The Supreme Court now ruled that suicide assistance is allowed under certain circumstances. For example, there must be unacceptable suffering, the injury must be irreparable, and the patient must be able to make his own decisions. With regard to the death of Antoniani, the court said: "Whoever is in his condition is entitled to help".

New legislation

"We're all freer now," says Cappato right after the verdict. He calls on the parliament to come up with new legislation on euthanasia.

Correspondent Angelo van Schaik calls the court's ruling a breakthrough and says that the ball is now in Parliament's court. "This may well be the right time. The Social Democratic PD is in favor of euthanasia, and also within the Five Star Movement there are many supporters for the regulation of the end of life. Only the difficult cooperation between the two coalition parties can throw a spanner in the works."

Catholic organizations have also been stirred up, says Van Schaik. "A group of 4,000 Catholic anesthetists have indicated they will appeal to conscientious objections. The first step has been taken, but the battle is far from over."

Translated with


FOTCM Member
According to Dutch media the majority of Dutch pediatricians now think young patients should have the right to euthanasia.:headbash:
So, IMO we are being primed to accept it, starting with people who are suffering and in pain and parents are buying into this vicious propaganda for whatever reason:

Eight out of ten doctors who have been treating young, unbearably suffering children under the age of twelve in recent years believe that active termination of life should be possible under certain circumstances, according to research carried out by three Dutch university hospitals.

It is estimated that 60 paediatricians treat such patients every year. The Beatrix Children's Hospital of the UMCG in Groningen, Erasmus MC and the Amsterdam UMC have interviewed 38 doctors on behalf of the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport who have treated more than 350 seriously ill young patients in recent years.

32 doctors stated that euthanasia should also be possible for young children. Out of a total of 359 cases, 46 intolerable suffering patients would have benefited from euthanasia, according to the doctors.

In many children, the process of dying can take weeks despite deteriorating health and they suffer a lot of pain during this period. "Parents also want to speed up or shorten the process," says professor and researcher Eduard Verhagen.

The research was handed over to the Lower House on Saturday. The researchers hope that there will be new regulations regarding active termination of life for children.

Grey area' in regulations for euthanasia in young children

At present, children between the ages of twelve and sixteen can decide for themselves about their treatment. In the case of children up to one year old, the decision lies with parents and doctors. For the group of children between both ages, the rules are "unclear", partly because they are not yet legally capable.

Euthanasia for young children has become a more discussable topic in recent years. In 2018, Belgium was the first country to implement the controversial idea.

Translated with

How about good palliative care or trying to find a cure a for their disease?

Maybe these prosecution cases mentioned above are just for show, while the authorities are busy promoting a certain mind-set for the gullible public?

A dear friend of mine was contemplating euthanasia and one of the reasons he gave me was that he didn't want to be a burden for the people around him (could be part of his personality, but it could also be him believing the useless eaters propaganda). He did tell me that he did have to go to a lot of trouble getting it sorted and he is of clear mind, so I think the authorities are just trying to muddy the waters.


The Living Force
Source: Strong support for euthanasia, majority back help for people 'tired of life' -

Strong support for euthanasia, majority back help for people ‘tired of life’

November 19, 2019

A narrow majority of the Dutch support the introduction of assisted suicide for people who feel their life is at an end, even though they are physically healthy, according to a representative survey of 3,600 people by national statistics agency CBS [in Dutch].

In total, 55% said they believed people who are tired of life should be able to get help to die, while 33% said this should not be an option.

A third of those who backed assisted suicide said they favored the introduction of a lower age limit, while half said age should not play a role at all.

Euthanasia continues to have widespread support in the Netherlands, with 87% backing the practice in some circumstances. Muslims and strict Protestants are least likely to support any form of euthanasia, but even among them there is a majority support for the principle.

Eight in 10 people also support euthanasia for people with severe dementia, if they had made their wishes plain before they became ill. Some 74% backed euthanasia for people with severe psychiatric problems and 75% for children with terminal illnesses.

The Liberal democratic party is drawing up its own legislation which would make it possible for the over-75s who consider their life is at an end to be helped to die [in Dutch] and aims to present the measure to parliament early next year.

Euthanasia was legalized [in Dutch] in the Netherlands in 2002 for those over 12 experiencing ‘hopeless and unbearable suffering’, who want to die and have come to the conclusion independently. Two doctors have to agree that the conditions have been met.

Euthanasia currently accounts for around 4% of Dutch deaths, mostly involving cancer patients.

Source (Dutch only):
De helft van de Nederlanders wil euthanasie mogelijk maken voor wie het leven beu is

DeepL Translator said:
CBS survey
Half of the Dutch people want to make euthanasia possible for those who are tired of life

Image Ilse de Kraaij

For the first time the CBS is measuring the mood around 'completed life'. More than half of the Dutch people think that healthy people who want to die should also be able to get euthanasia.

Marten van de Wier & Rianne Oosterom
- 19 November 2019, 0:01 AM

A majority of Dutch people think that physically healthy people who are tired of life should be able to get euthanasia. This is now not allowed by law. 55 percent think that euthanasia should be possible for healthy people under certain circumstances. A third wants euthanasia for healthy people to remain out of the question.

This is the conclusion of a study by the Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) among 3600 Dutch people. According to the CBS this is the first representative survey of the opinion of the Dutch on a number of hot topics in the euthanasia debate. In this way, the statistical office wants to feed the social debate with facts, says spokesman Tanja Traag.

Of the people who support euthanasia in case of fatigue of life, more than a third think that an age limit should apply: only those who are older are eligible. Half of them think that age shouldn't play a role. The respondents do not give an unambiguous age limit: some think that it should be possible from the age of 18, others mention the age of 40 or 80.

At the beginning of next year, D66 will present a bill on 'completed life', as Pia Dijkstra, a member of the Lower House of Parliament, announced this autumn. She wants to make it possible for the over-75s to get out of life with help. "This research touches on this," says D66 spokesman Benjamin Meijer. Due to the CBS' way of formulating the question, Meijer finds it difficult to estimate what this says about the support of the Dutch population for the D66 proposal. "I don't want to speculate", he says.

Expanding opportunities for minors

The survey also shows that three quarters of people do not rule out euthanasia for incurably ill children. This discussion arose this autumn, after a group of pediatricians advocated euthanasia for incurably ill children under the age of twelve. In the current euthanasia law there are no possibilities for this group.

Children from the age of twelve can get euthanasia in case of unbearable suffering, if they ask for it themselves and their parents agree to it. Above the age of sixteen, parental consent is no longer required. Because the CBS has not asked about the conditions that people set for child euthanasia, the numbers actually say little about the support for the pediatricians' proposal.

Another tricky point in the end-of-life debate is euthanasia for people with a deep dementia. Eighty per cent of those questioned are in favor of this if these people have asked for euthanasia when they were still completely clear of mind. This form of euthanasia is possible under current legislation, but it is a slippery slope for doctors, since those persons are no longer able to confirm their wish to die.

Wide acceptance

On average, 87% of the Dutch are open to euthanasia. Among non-religious Dutch people this is as much as 98 percent. The CBS also looked at the role of religion in convictions about the end of life. It is striking that Muslims more often than Christians are against any form of euthanasia. Of the religious groups, Roman Catholics have the most open attitude towards euthanasia.

Although believers are more critical of euthanasia than non-believers, the vast majority of them are not opposed to it. The survey shows that a narrow majority of Muslims and a large majority of Christians think that euthanasia should be possible under certain circumstances.

Agnes Wolbert, chairman of the Dutch Association for the Voluntary End of Life, calls this 'encouraging'. "With these figures it is clear that 17 years after the introduction of the euthanasia law it is impossible to imagine the future without it."

Medical ethicist Theo Boer is critical of the set-up and design of the research and does not find the questions clear. "The point is that these kinds of questions cost the respondents nothing. Anyone who asks people whether taxes should be reduced will certainly also see high percentages. But do they realize what euthanasia does to doctors?"

The professor of ethics of health care at the Protestant Theological University warns that the 'normalization of euthanasia' is increasing the pressure on doctors to cooperate. While many Dutch people are sympathetic to euthanasia, according to Boer, doctors exactly are becoming more cautious.

Translated with

Source (Dutch only):
Heeft het CBS nou een brede steun voor de voltooidlevenwet ontdekt, of niet?

DeepL Translator said:
Tired of life
Has the CBS discovered broad support for the law of completed life, or not?

Image Fadi Nadrous

Do the figures published on Tuesday by the Statistics Bureau of the Netherlands on tiredness of life mean that there is broad support for the law on completed life among the Dutch population?

Rianne Oosterom and Marten van de Wier -19 November 2019, 15:41

When are you tired of life? When you can't get out of bed? When you are sixteen and have no idea how to live; when you are forty and have lost everything in a divorce; when the mourning of a deceased loved one casts a grey veil over your life; when you no longer want to walk the dog? When you have achieved everything you wanted to achieve?

While the euthanasia debate is currently focused on the notion of 'completed life', the Central Bureau of Statistics chose to use a different term in an opinion poll. The researchers asked people if they thought that euthanasia should be possible for those who are 'tired of life'. The majority, 55%, think that this should be possible under certain circumstances.

The relationship between the figures and the member's private initiative law

The question is whether these numbers now mean that there is broad support among the Dutch population for the D66 Act on Completion of Life. The relationship between these data and the Parliament member's private bill that is currently being developed, is problematic for a number of reasons.

First of all, D66 focuses on people of old age. The party applies a lower limit of 75 years. In the CBS study, life fatigue is not linked to an age. One third of the respondents do believe that there should be an age limit for euthanasia in the case of wariness of life, but they sometimes set that limit much lower than D66. Half of them think that age shouldn't play a role at all: if you're tired of life, you should be able to go.

A second objection is that 'tired of life' is a dissimilar notion than 'completed life'. Different definitions of both concepts circulate. According to D66, 'completed life' refers to 'suffering from a life that has become too long for people', according to the party on its website. Moreover, according to D66, the request to die must be voluntary, without any external pressure, well-considered and sustained. The CBS left it to the discretion of the respondents to determine what they meant by 'tired of life' in their questionnaire.

Dying with dignity without a doctor

In any case, the target group covered by the D66 own-initiative law is narrower than the category researched by the CBS. The fact that a majority is in favor of euthanasia among this broader group could be interpreted as good news for the democrats. After all, won't these people also support their stricter law?

However that, too, is complicated. Because, in the picture that D66 sketches about their law the doctor is missing. According to the party, dying with dignity when you consider your life complete is not a medical phenomenon, but is about self-determination. That's why they don't want the involvement of a doctor, only of a caregiver whom they call 'dying counselor'. That's why the party wants to regulate this matter outside of the euthanasia law.

The Dutch National Statistics Bureau (CBS) did not include this aspect in their survey either. Do the supporters of euthanasia in the event of life fatigue also support the provision of help for an end of life that is not called 'euthanasia' and in which no doctor is involved any more? We don't know.

It is clear that there is a need among a large group of people for more self-determination about their own end of life, but on the basis of this research it is difficult to say how much support there is for the D66 proposal.

Translated with

Other sources in Dutch:
Meerderheid voor euthanasie in enige vorm


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
I appreciate this discussion. Death has been present in my life since last winter at around this time.

I was called by a friend of mine whose father was very sick. My friend couldn't go and be with him. He asked me. I said yes.

I did my best to take care. In the spirit of the 4th way, I have been looking back at that time and seeing how much I failed in my task. When I was there, his daughter was, too. I spoke to her about what could happen if her Dad died while we were both there, trying our best to be of service. During that time, I listened to a video interview with a man named Stephen Jenkinson, already mentioned in this thread. It was of immense help. I highly recommend his work.

Stephen Jenkinson is known to some in Canada as the Angel of Death. Angel in this sense coming from its older meaning - messenger. He was there for hundreds of dying people, with their families and the doctors and the hospital staff.

He is subject of the documentary called Griefwalker.

"Griefwalker is a National Film Board of Canada feature documentary film, directed by Tim Wilson. It is a lyrical, poetic portrait of Stephen Jenkinson’s work with dying people. Filmed over a twelve year period, Griefwalker shows Jenkinson in teaching sessions with doctors and nurses, in counselling sessions with dying people and their families, and in meditative and often frank exchanges with the film’s director while paddling a birch bark canoe about the origins and consequences of his ideas for how we live and die."

Here is the trailer. I can't find an online version.

He has also written a book entitled 'Die Wise'. A fitting recommendation for a thread asking how to die well. I have yet to get through it, and so cannot recommend it, but given what I have heard from him thus far, and given the excellent reviews from friends, it is indispensable for someone seeking to see death and dying in an objective sense.

Finally - in the Tibetan Book of the Living and the Dying, it is said that helping someone to die well is the highest act of charity. If that is so, this thread is of great import. We are discussing the highest act of charity.

Take care, and my thanks.


Jedi Master
According to Dutch media the majority of Dutch pediatricians now think young patients should have the right to euthanasia.:headbash:
So, IMO we are being primed to accept it, starting with people who are suffering and in pain and parents are buying into this vicious propaganda for whatever reason:

How about good palliative care or trying to find a cure a for their disease?

Maybe these prosecution cases mentioned above are just for show, while the authorities are busy promoting a certain mind-set for the gullible public?

A dear friend of mine was contemplating euthanasia and one of the reasons he gave me was that he didn't want to be a burden for the people around him (could be part of his personality, but it could also be him believing the useless eaters propaganda). He did tell me that he did have to go to a lot of trouble getting it sorted and he is of clear mind, so I think the authorities are just trying to muddy the waters.

I don't know what your friend had but I can understand his feelings. Personally, depending on the illness and if I'm already old, I wouldn't the point in living if I became so disabled that I couldn't take care of myself at all or I lost my cognitive abilities, especially if there's no/ low chance of recovery.

However, in the case teenagers requesting euthanasia this is a different ballgame and I feel like the problem comes from the parents. As a parent if your kid wants to die that means you've failed and you should try to understand where is it that you've failed and help your kid.


The Living Force
Thanks iamthatis for finding and sharing this video which lasts about 56 min. :cool2:

Its full title is: The Skill of Brokenheartedness - Euthanasia, Palliative Care and Power and apparently he addresses an audience of hospice workers giving palliative care to patients who are terminally ill.

The term 'euthanasia' as such is never mentioned - probably because it's not legal in North America - but between the lines it's his main subject: learning how to die with dignity and how to die healthy. Meandering through the cultural norms and professional habits of the dying industry, he sure touches on virtually everything that's relevant in that field -- in a gentle, inviting way to join him in his search.

A few quotes from the YT-page:
Jane Hiller
putting the dying person at the center of control, but then denying them euthanasia as a choice - that's the idiotic contradiction and lunacy of the "palliative" care system within the death phobic culture.
Anhedonia Again (reformulated)
Wow. I am madly in love with this man right now. Am I the only one who thinks he sounds and even looks a bit like Robin Williams, especially in Good Will Hunting? I have been researching human Euthanasia quite a bit lately, and it was that search that led me to this video. The right to die at will, and with dignity, is something I have always felt strongly about, and now that I am suffering with the unpleasant symptoms of MS, I want to know what my options are, legal or not. Dr. Jack Kevorkian was always a hero of mine, and the legal trouble he faced as a result of his compassion, was absolutely tragic . This speech was brilliant & compassionate. Stephen Jenkinson might be one of my new heroes. Thanks so much for sharing this video.
Bea, Honey dog and me
Watch "Griefwalker" instead of this video. I watched both of them today and Griefwalker was outstanding while this was somewhat confusing. Finally at the end of this deeply intense talk, he says that death is at the center and death should be making the decisions. Huh? How do you make a care plan out of that? Someone has to make the decisions. "The patient can't make them cause they've never been through the dying process before and they can't know what they'd want in that situation until they get there." I agree with that. I don't know. I loved the movie. Watch it on Netflix! Don't wait. I think this is a truly remarkable and amazing man and I hope to grasp his simple yet mind-boggling concepts. There is great beauty and peace within him.

Stephen Jenkinson was mentioned previously once in this thread; and twice elsewhere on the forum, notably here and here .

Stephen Jenkinson:
goodreads said:
Stephen is a teacher, author, storyteller, spiritual activist, farmer and founder of the Orphan Wisdom School, a teaching house and learning house for the skills of deep living and making human culture. It is rooted in knowing history, being claimed by ancestry, working for a time yet to come.

Orphan Wisdom:
wikipedia said:
Orphan Wisdom is a method of inquiry gathered together and wondered about primarily, but not exclusively, by Stephen Jenkinson.

Jenkinson expresses his experience in seeing what modern Western people "suffer from most is culture failure, amnesia of ancestry and deep family story, phantom or sham rites of passage, no instruction on how to live with each other or with the world around us or with our dead or with our history."[1] Orphan Wisdom wonders about the origins and consequence of this state and contending with building skills to be in the presence of this fact. Before his 2010 founding of the Orphan Wisdom School, Jenkinson directed palliative care at Mount Sinai Hospital of Toronto.[2] Orphan Wisdom's teachings push against "'death phobia' and 'grief illiteracy'"[3] to promote acceptance of death well before death in order to "participate emotionally in their deaths as they participate in other big life events".[4]

The documentary film about Jenkinson and Orphan Wisdom, Griefwalker, was produced by the National Film Board of Canada and filmed over twelve years by Tim Wilson.[5]

First published in 2002, the book Money and the Soul's Desires: A Meditation makes a language to explore questions about the role of money in both a personal and a cultural context.

The 2009 book How it All Could Be is part meditation and part guided study, a companion to the film Griefwalker as well as a stand-alone workbook for anyone trying to approach dying with soul and intelligence intact.

The 2015 book Die Wise: A Manifesto for Sanity and Soul is Jenkinson's history, explication and exploration of his approach to coming to terms with death. Its dense and sometimes poetic prose is both a critique of dominant Western cultural practices and denials - in part gleaned from his years the "death trade," as Jenkinson calls it - as well as what the author has learned elsewhere, particularly from indigenous peoples.[6] His ideas also have an affinity with Buddhist teachings, which have their origin in the Buddha's confronting the reality of suffering and death.[7]

Published in 2018, the book Come of Age. The Case for Elderhood in a Time of Trouble makes the case that we must birth a new generation of elders, one poised and willing to be true stewards of the planet and its species [8].


1. "Making Wisdom" on the Orphan Wisdom website. Accessed 28 September 2015.
2. "Man sees gifts in terminal diagnosis," Peak Online. 4 June 2014. Accessed 28 September 2015.
3. "Is This Yom Kippur Prayer Designed to Confront Our 'Death Phobia?'," Haaretz. 17 September 2015. Accessed 28 September 2015.
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The Living Force
Source (Dutch only): De Jonge: Besluit levensbeëindiging minderjarigen komend voorjaar

DeepL Translator said:
De Jonge: Decree on the termination of the life of minors next spring

Image ANP, Bart Maat

Political redaction
Today 16:10 Modified Today 19:08

The Cabinet intends to respond next spring to a report by pediatricians on medical decisions concerning the end of life of minor children.
That is what Minister De Jonge (VWS) said in a parliamentary debate on Wednesday.

The report states that some of the doctors are in need of additional regulations regarding the possibility of active termination of the life of minors between 1 and 12 years of age. Nothing has been laid down about this in the Netherlands yet, so that doctors who choose to end those lives run the risk of being prosecuted.

Children of 12 years and older fall under the euthanasia law. For newborns and babies in the first year of life there is the so-called Groninger Protocol. This ministerial regulation determines the conditions under which the termination of the life of minors in this age category is permissible.
The regulation contains requirements for due care that are comparable to those in the euthanasia act. There is also an obligation to report, whereby the committee set up for this purpose advises the Public Prosecution Service whether or not to prosecute.

A parliamentary majority of VVD, D66, GroenLinks, PvdA and SP proposed Wednesday that a legal framework similar to the Groninger Protocol should be drawn up for minors between 1 and 12 years of age. According to De Jonge, this is one of the options that will be explored in the Council of Ministers. In the words of the Minister, this would be a solution "close to the professional domain", for situations in which groups of medical professions now experience a lack of room for professional action, and in which the euthanasia law remains unchanged.

Of the children who would be covered by such a scheme, it must have been established that their end of life is expected in the short term. Moreover, doctors must have come to the conclusion that palliative interventions that have been used, have not sufficiently relieved the suffering.

It is not yet clear whether further legislation will be introduced. According to De Jonge, it is relevant in this respect that only a small proportion of the medical specialists involved in the treatment of children were interviewed in the report.

In the parliamentary debate, he also emphasised that the doctors' report did not lead to the recommendation that rules should be drawn up. It only states that it must be considered whether this is appropriate.

Another recommendation is that the guideline on palliative care for children requires clarification. In a number of cases, it provides doctors with the opportunity to discontinue treatments, increase pain medication and also stop the administration of fluid and nutrition. Better information could lead to better use being made of the opportunities offered by the directive, also by doctors who currently refrain from doing so for fear of being accused of carelessness.
De Jonge promised the House that the Cabinet would respond to this appeal as well.

Translated with (free version)

Additional coverage (Dutch only):
Kamer: meer ruimte voor levensbeëindiging kind
VVD pleit voor versoepeling euthanasie voor zieke kinderen
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