Euthanasia

Gary

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks for the additional info and sharing experiences. The dutch film, Simon, sounds good.

Until i started to read such publications, such as End of Life Strategy (as referenced above) i did not realise just how few rights, especially when most vulnerable, we actually have. Even after being as informed as we can be, knowing our National or state current legal parameters, the onus is of course on 'Profit before People', and 'needless suffering before dignified dying'.

Supporting campaigners who challenge these legal systems, addressing our own fears about dying and death and perhaps considering dignified, compassionate alternatives may be positive steps i feel.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25364745 and

http://www.sott.net/article/270111-Belgian-Senate-votes-to-extend-euthanasia-to-terminally-ill-children-who-are-in-great-pain-and-want-to-die

BBC said:
Belgian Senate votes to extend euthanasia to children

13 December 2013 Last updated at 11:49 GMT

The Belgian Senate has voted in favour of extending its euthanasia law to terminally-ill children.

The Senate voted 50-17 in favour of the legislation, which is opposed by religious leaders in Belgium.

The bill seeks to allow children to ask for euthanasia if their illness is terminal, they are in great pain and there is no available treatment.

It will now go before the lower house of parliament, where correspondents say it is likely to be approved.

Belgium passed a law decriminalizing euthanasia for terminally-ill people over the age of 18 in 2002.

The latest bill proposes to make Belgium the first country in the world to remove any age limit on the practice.


But it stipulates a number of caveats on euthanasia:

* It says the patient must be conscious of their decision and understand the meaning of euthanasia
* The request must have been approved by the child's parents and medical team
* Their illness must be terminal
* They must be in great pain, with no available treatment to alleviate their distress

In November, 16 paediatricians urged lawmakers in Belgium to approve the legislation in an open letter.

"Experience shows us that in cases of serious illness and imminent death, minors develop very quickly a great maturity, to the point where they are often better able to reflect and express themselves on life than healthy people," said their statement.

During the Senate debate, supporters of the bill said it would empower doctors and terminally-ill children to make a difficult decision.

"There is no age for suffering and, next to that, it's very important that we have a legal framework for the doctors who are confronted with this demand today and for the minors, for the capable minors, who are suffering today, and who I think should have the freedom to choose how they cope with their suffering," said Senator Jean-Jacques de Gucht, of the Open Flemish Liberals and Democrats.

But opponents in the Senate said children were not capable of making such a decision.

"We think that children don't understand the character of death, they don't understand the irreversibility of death," said Els Van Hoof of the Christian Democratic and Flemish party. "They are also influenced by authority, by their parents, by the medical team. So, to take a decision which is a huge decision about their death we don't think that they are capable of doing it."

In 2012, Belgium recorded 1,432 cases of euthanasia in 2012, up by 25% from 2011.
 

Gary

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Right-to-die challenge reaches Supreme Court

16 December 2013


Campaigners for the right to die are to have their arguments heard by the Supreme Court in the latest round of their legal battle.

It involves family of the late Tony Nicklinson of Wilts, who had locked-in syndrome, and Paul Lamb of Leeds, who was paralysed in a road crash.

They want the law changed so they can be allowed to die with the help of a doctor.

Judgement is likely to be issued at a later date.

The court will have to decide if the law prohibiting assisted suicide is incompatible with the European Convention on Human Rights by denying Mr Lamb, and others like him, the right to choose the timing of their death.

There will be nine judges on the panel, rather than the normal five, overseeing the four-day hearing.

'Unanimously dismissed'

Paul Lamb, 57, has been almost completely paralysed from the neck down since a car accident 23 years ago and says he is in constant pain.

He has called for the law to be changed so any doctor who helped him die would have a defence against the charge of murder.

Tony Nicklinson was paralysed from the neck down after suffering a stroke while on a business trip to Athens in 2005.

After losing his High Court battle last year, he refused food and died naturally, aged 58, a week later at his home in Wiltshire. His widow Jane is continuing his fight.

Earlier this year, Mr Lamb joined forces with Mr Nicklinson's family to fight a joint legal battle.

'Conscience of the nation'

In their Appeal Court case, the decision centred on whether the High Court was right to rule Parliament, not judges, should decide whether the law on assisted dying should change.

The three Court of Appeal judges unanimously dismissed the Nicklinson and Lamb challenge.

In the judgement, the Lord Chief Justice Lord Judge said Parliament represented "the conscience of the nation" when it came to addressing life and death issues, such as abortions and the death penalty.

"Judges, however eminent, do not: our responsibility is to discover the relevant legal principles, and apply the law as we find it," he said.

At the same hearing a third paralysed man won his case seeking clearer prosecution guidance from the director of public prosecutions (DPP) for health workers who help others die.

The man, known only as Martin, wants it to be lawful for a doctor or nurse to help him travel abroad to die with the help of a suicide organisation in Switzerland. His wife and other family want no involvement in his suicide.

The Supreme Court will also deal with the DPP's appeal against the Court of Appeal's ruling in Martin's favour.




Analysis

Clive Coleman

Legal correspondent, BBC News

These cases raise some of the most profound ethical, moral and legal questions imaginable. Whilst it is not a crime to commit suicide, it remains a serious crime to assist someone to do so, punishable by up to 14 years imprisonment.

Paul Lamb's argument is that the current law represents a disproportionate and discriminatory interference with his right to a private and family life under Article 8 of the Human Rights Act, because it does not allow him to end his life at a time and in a manner of his choosing - with the help of a medical professional. To fix that, he wants there to be a defence available to any doctor who assists a severely disabled person to end their life. This would be subject to strict safeguards, and would have to be sanctioned by a court in each individual case.

However, the defence is known as 'necessity' and it is based on the idea that it is necessary to assist to end a life in order to end unbearable suffering. That is hugely controversial and whilst many people will have enormous empathy with Paul Lamb and others like him, they fear that any relaxation in the law governing assisted suicide or euthanasia, would expose vulnerable groups such as the elderly, those with dementia and the disabled to pressure to end their lives so as not to be a financial or emotional burden.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25363947
 

l apprenti de forgeron

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Palinurus said:
http://www.sott.net/article/270111-Belgian-Senate-votes-to-extend-euthanasia-to-terminally-ill-children-who-are-in-great-pain-and-want-to-die
BBC said:
"Experience shows us that in cases of serious illness and imminent death, minors develop very quickly a great maturity, to the point where they are often better able to reflect and express themselves on life than healthy people," said their statement.
It is terrible to think in such children. I think it's the worse thing. But perhaps today we need have legislation that makes everyone more aware of the value of life. Because it's much more loving end a life without cure that the extension, which only prolongs the suffering (very "Christian" that extension only for suffering). We need such laws to our human life be mirroring as "terrible" and that often not politicians, doctors or gods can do anything. Learn to re-value. It would be a step forward. What moves me to tears is that often children are more mature than adults. And value life better. I think something was said in "Bringers of the Dawn" like "when life is not worth prolonging it should not. Animals respect their quality of life, so if this is not present, they go. Instead humans not do this." I think that was the idea.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
For archiving purposes, here's a link to a for this topic relevant SotT article:

http://www.sott.net/article/272881-New-Mexico-judge-affirms-right-to-aid-in-dying
 

Alvalsen

Jedi
Re: Эвтаназия

euthanasia - is a complex topic
I think if people want to get away from life, if he really is terminally ill and suffering, give him that opportunity - it humanely
but then he has to do it, he pressed "button" that would make lethal injection

so others will be calmer
nobody will blame themselves for someone's death

but it is difficult to give a definite answer
 

Arwenn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Loire said:
....So now the million dollar questions become: why artificially prolong his life if it can no longer serve any purpose? Why shouldn't this lovely old man be allowed to rest in peace like every other dying person? Wouldn't it be better for his soul to be released from his body so it can proceed in its learning journey? Why try to delay his impending and inevitable death at all cost? Is forcing him to stay alive (in a Zombie-like state) a way of honouring his dignity and freewill, or is it just a sick obsession of those who like to use his influence for various social and political gains?
...It now seems to me that everyone should be allowed to check out with dignity if their health state makes it impossible for their soul to express itself in their current body. It makes sense that the soul should be allowed to exit that body so it can begin to chose a new one in which to reincarnate.

I was only having a conversation regarding this with a friend of mine this morning. I was making the comparison that a Vet treating an animal for which there was no hope of healing/recovery, would put the animal down as the most humane thing to do, so as to end its suffering rather than prolong it. Yet, the Medico-Legal System is all about prolonging lives at any cost, yet the cost is huge in terms of the suffering inflicted on everyone concerned. If there is no quality of life, and no hope of recovery why can't it be a person's choice as to when they leave 3rd density? The only benefits I can see are to Big Pharma, the Medical Mafia, and perhaps insurance companies who'd rather delay in paying out any Life policies.


Anam Cara said:
Hi Lindenlea and Loire,
....
What does it really mean to be 'alive'? Under what situation would you choose to die?...
Surely in a more humane world, we would honour the free will of others, and help them pass on with dignity and love. But then, just because someone asks to be helped to die - does not always mean they are always 'Asking'. The Cs say "give all to those who ask" and I am slowly leaning that there is no black/white, good/bad. It seems to come down to the Third Force again and the INTENT for that SPECIFIC situation.

I couldn't have said it better, Anam Cara. I too think that each case has its own specific conditions, that there can't be any black and white thinking here, and that it does indeed come down to the Third Force. BUT, it would be nice to have the option legally speaking.


Anam Cara said:
I think we as a society (particularly Western) have been so conditioned to be fearful of death and disability, and this may explain why alot folk shy away from the subject. It would also explain why so many families do 'abandon' elderly and disabled into the 'care system'. It looks to me like traditional family values have been contently eroded away over years and generations of the pathological PTB. Once having 3 generations living under the same roof was once normal, perhaps mostly from necessity; but it did give a lot of op portunties for the natural development of caring and nurturing the most vulnerable in the family unit. Values which are quite obviously lacking in the wider society. But such values may have a place in a Soul Community perhaps, and is that not worth Working toward and striving to reach?

My small town where I have an optometric practice, has primarily an elderly demographic (ages 70+ years). Most seem desperately lonely, most live independently (without their extended families) or in aged care. My observations are that most (but certainly not all) seem fearful of dying, have terrible diets & multiple co-morbidities, & are on just about every drug. For the most part, they appear to live very superficial lives, which seem quite empty to me. This is what has been imposed on us by pathologicals as to what we should expect as we age, & how we should live. Yet in non-Western ethnic communities, people live as a close-knit extended family where there is always someone to help look after children, and the elderly have a purpose.

Reflecting on the whole Spirit Release Therapy and attachments from the Knowledge and Being videos by Laura, it would seem that indeed Western society and monotheistic religions have made us very fearful of the process of dying. Hence the attachments (they don't know how to transition to 5th D). The very institutions that are supposed to be a source of spiritual guidance through life and into death, have failed humanity miserably.
 

Palinurus

The Living Force
For archiving purposes: _http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26181615

BBC said:
Belgium's parliament votes through child euthanasia

13 February 2014 Last updated at 18:57 GMT

Parliament in Belgium has passed a bill allowing euthanasia for terminally ill children without any age limit, by 86 votes to 44, with 12 abstentions.

When, as expected, the bill is signed by the king, Belgium will become the first country in the world to remove any age limit on the practice.

It may be requested by terminally ill children who are in great pain and also have parental consent.

Opponents argue children cannot make such a difficult decision.

It is 12 years since Belgium legalised euthanasia for adults.

In the Netherlands, Belgium's northern neighbour, euthanasia is legal for children over the age of 12, if there is parental consent.

[continued...]
From another source: http://www.sott.net/article/273804-Belgium-approves-assisted-suicide-for-minors
 

Arwenn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yup, this did make the news here yesterday - the announcement was followed by interviewing people vehemently opposed to the decision in Belgium (with dire warnings of the consequences for us all). It's the MSM's insidious way of controlling public opinion (as they certainly did not present both sides of the issue).
 
T

Tripitaka

Guest
This is a great topic to talk about, as it is such a difficult subject to really have a definite yes or no opinion on, unless you have experienced the desire to do this yourself, majority of us have no room to talk really.
As everyone else I have my own opinions also. They are very split both ways, as i am sure most peoples will be on this topic.

Firstly I feel that as souls before cominig to earth we pre planned certain events to happen, or things we were born with etc, in order to learn a very specific lesson, like acceptance, patience, so on and so forth, so we agree to be for example paralysed from the neck down in this life in order to do this. My theory is that the more severe the handicap, pain etc the more we want to learn this lesson, as maybe it is a lesson that is taking lifetimes to achieve so putting ourselves in such a severe situation with our bodies, we have much more chance to finally learn this lesson...

Now if one chooses to die in some ways i feel they are avoiding the situation that they pre planned. And will just ave to repeat the cycle again until they learn what it is to learn being in whatever state they were in.
In a completely different way, if one conciously chooses to die, with total acceptance and awareness of what they are about to do and have peace in thier hearts, this may actually also be a lesson in choosing nobly when to die and when not to. Do they really have to live? Choosing to die I feel in some ways can be a noble act, with as many powerful lessons and choosing not to.

This is why it is so hard to have a straight opinion on this topic as it is actually impossible to when we do not know the whole truth spiritually speaking of the lessons each and every one of these souls came here to learn??

Ciou :)
 

Phill4

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi Anam Cara, I do not think taking one's life is entirely bad as it is said…
I'm referring to the spiritual sense rather than any medical ethic or whatever they want to call it….
The C's made mention in one of the sessions something interesting..


Session March 4 2012

Q: (L) Okay, the first question I have is that I have been contacted by this guy named Armando. His son died. The son was born on August 10, 1996, and died on October 7, 2011 in Santa Barbara, California. Now, he has some questions, and I'm making an exception to ask these questions for him because he's really quite distraught. So, his first question - and I'm gonna try to help out with these questions - as he wrote it is, "Did his son decide to go to the contemplation zone, or did he decide to stay here?"

A: It would not be a good thing to be earth bound. Sergio was confused for a bit, but his father's questions enabled him to move on.

Q: (L) Okay. His father asks, "Is there anything I can do to help him?"

A: His father is not in a position to help in any other way than to release and accept his son's choice.

Q: (L) Are you saying that his son chose to leave?

A: At one level, yes.

Q: (L) But it was a terrible accident. I mean, how can you choose by an accident?

A: At the level of the soul the decision is made to withdraw the awareness that normally prevents such occurrences.

Q: (L) So you're saying that when accidents happen, that at some level even if the specific accident isn't engineered or set up, that the soul can make a choice to withdraw the acute awareness of reality that permits an accident to be more possible or probable? Is that it?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And is that what happened in this case?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Why did his son make that choice?

A: He knew what was coming and chose to prepare for the next level of service.

Q: (L) His father asks, "Was his death caused by STS to generate pain and suffering on us and the community just to feed them?"

A: No.

Q: (L) Is there anything you can say to Armando to help him deal with his pain?

A: Death is just passing through a door that is not accessible to the living except on the mental planes. If his father wishes to fully honor his son and his choice, he might do well to use this event as motivation to develop himself in a more fully spiritual way. More than that, he could help others in lieu of his son for his son.

Q: (Ark) Well, once we are on this subject, I want to ask about these mathematicians. Yesterday I learned that from my mathematician friend in Poland about the death of - in our Kairos club - a young mathematician Branson. And apparently he was quite young and for no reason suddenly he died driving a car. (L) In an accident? (Ark) No, while he was driving. Now, he was a friend of the German mathematician who worked with Irving Segal, the young guy that drowned in Clausthal in the lake. There was a conference, and they went for a swim in the lake. People were on the shore watching, and he just sank in seconds and that was all. He was also like 20-some years old. Then we had this Pertti Lounesto, the same club, related to the same area of mathematics, who drowned in the sea a few months after we saw him at the conference {in Cookville, Tennessee}. Okay, and then we had the Russian mathematician who was doing also similar work, and he went to the Black sea for vacation and he drowned. All these young people died, and they are all mathematicians doing very abstract work. It's too many of them to have drowned just by accident. I mean, what kind of coincidence is it? Any comment?

A: It is not a coincidence. It is too bad that so many who are on the right track in so many ways do not have the advantage of knowing about those things that would shield them from frequency driven attacks; such things as diet changes that would protect them from direct manipulation; things such as awareness of other densities. But, of course this last item would have come to their notice.

Q: (L) Alright, while we're on the subject, one of my Facebook friends, Lindy, had a daughter named Arianna who died on my birthday. Which is kind of interesting because this young boy Sergio, Armando's son, died on my grandmother's birthday. So anyway, this Arianna died apparently in her sleep. She's had seizure disorders since she was young, and she tried to go on a gluten/dairy-free diet and so forth, but she couldn't leave the sugar alone. Any comment on this?

A: Arianna was waking and realized at the soul level that the body was no longer useful. She just "stepped out".

I wouldn't personally like to think that it is always the case, or maybe I should re phrase it and say that such choice is not always made at the same level of consciousness, and that such things as suicide, death and such are a choice that isn't bound to good and evil as much as the choices in front of you and the person's specific path…

I do remember where I personally got the idea of "suicide is evil" in the literal form of "If you kill yourself you go to hell" that my grandmother, a catholic raised woman and several other priests during my upbringing taught us and even made emphasis on, so for the most part, it comes from contemporary Christian doctrines and so on.

I do know that the C's had also said something that I actually read yesterday on Laura's book "Facing the unknown" that "a person does not become an STO candidate by determining the needs of another", it is up to them to make such judgement and decision , the question I have in regards to your situation would be of course, what if they can't make the jump themselves of course, that even though this person does not want to live, and is in intentional prolonged pain, like many people with paralyzes, ME and more, suffer, what to do then……? It isn't up to us to kill them neither to prolong their pain…... I personally can't say…
it is indeed a difficult subject.
 
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