Events in Russia

[Approaching Infinity]

I personally think that unnecessary cruelty should always be avoided. Given the larger picture and what the terrorists did though, the question remains if that would qualify as unnecessary cruelty? Many would argue that it is necessary in that case especially considering the puppet masters behind it and how they are at war with Russia.

Personally speaking, I think resorting to similar despicable methods terrorists use in order to revenge what they do (no matter how justified it might be) amounts to lowering yourself into the depths of their own despicable darkness yourself. Not good for the soul. I do think though that penalties that don’t involve unnecessary cruelty/sadism such as a quick death by death penalty or life imprisonment are totally justified and good especially if you consider the safety of society as a priority.

It should also be noted in case it wasn’t obvious, just because russian special forces fight for the decent side at the moment, doesn’t mean that there can not be quite a number of cruel and quite frankly psychopathic individuals engaged on that “good side“ as well. Sadists exist everywhere.

If you think of examples like pedophiles or rapists getting lynched, 'normal' people can be quite brutal. When we encounter an example of a person who violates our norms so completely, many react instinctively to punish that person (or in many cases, the person they only THINK is responsible), and even to remove them from the gene pool. If security forces are given orders to take someone like this alive, it's not surprising that that they would do whatever they can to give the person what they feel he deserves. Thus the ear, the kicks to the face and body, the repeated slamming of one of their faces into the rocky ground, etc. To the people doing this, this person is a subhuman monster and deserves worse than they give him. Add in the fact that people in these positions are trained for violence, and less likely to be kindly humanitarians by nature.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

So if one small participant (or group of participants) on the Russian side occasionally reacts disproportionately to the Anglo-American attempts to wholesale dominate and destroy them, I for one am okay with that, provided the overall direction and momentum of the greater good is preserved.

Agree!!

 

[youlik]

If you think of examples like pedophiles or rapists getting lynched, 'normal' people can be quite brutal. When we encounter an example of a person who violates our norms so completely, many react instinctively to punish that person (or in many cases, the person they only THINK is responsible), and even to remove them from the gene pool. If security forces are given orders to take someone like this alive, it's not surprising that that they would do whatever they can to give the person what they feel he deserves. Thus the ear, the kicks to the face and body, the repeated slamming of one of their faces into the rocky ground, etc. To the people doing this, this person is a subhuman monster and deserves worse than they give him. Add in the fact that people in these positions are trained for violence, and less likely to be kindly humanitarians by nature.

"Normality" is a very slippery thing. I want to give another example of "normality". The video appeared a couple of days ago.
The one who went out, let her put with them
I wanted to share it with you, but I didn't know how to present it. I still don't know, but at least now it will be in the subject and once again to think about something. In the video, a woman, seemingly normal, expresses her feelings about this video of the interrogation of a detained terrorist
The killers were promised 500 thousand rubles each for shooting people
And that's what's interesting. She understands that he "did all this", while not saying a word about what exactly she thinks he did, but the whole video she talks about how her soul hurts, how she couldn't sleep all night because of the shaking dushman, how she wanted to scream to put a jacket on him, he's cold and scared, poor guy. How do you like that? I repeat, it is unclear from this video how accurately she understands what he did, but in any case she could have asked. This madam speaks Russian well, correctly, as ordinary people speak, and her dialect resembles South Russian. This may be said somewhere in the Krasnodar Territory, or it may be in Ukraine. If she still lives in Russia, I wonder how she goes outside now? How much abuse has she already heard from intemperate people, or maybe she was even more lucky and she grabbed a good "bream" (this is a slap in the face) ?

Spoiler: Russian spelling

"Нормальность" штука очень скользкая. Я хочу привести еще один пример "нормальности". Видео появилось пару дней назад.
Мне хотелось им поделиться с вами, но я не знал как это подать. Я и сейчас не знаю, но по крайней мере сейчас это будет в тему и лишний раз о чем то подумать. На видео женщина, С виду нормальная, высказывает свои ощущения по поводу вот этого видео допроса задержанного террориста
И вот что интересно. Она понимает, что он "вот это все сделал", при этом ни слова не говорит о том, что именно по ее мнению он сделал, но весь ролик она говорит о том, как болит у нее душа, как она всю ночь не могла спать из-за трясущегося душмана, как она хотела кричать, чтобы на него надели курточку, он же бедненький замерз и ему страшно. Как вам такое? Повторюсь, из этого видео непонятно насколько точно она понимает, что он сделал, но во всяком случае она могла бы поинтересоваться. Эта мадам говорит по русски хорошо, правильно, так как говорят обычные люди, причем ее говор напоминает южнорусский. Так могут говорить где-нибудь в Краснодарском крае, а могут и на Украине. Если она все же живет в России, мне интересно как она теперь на улицу выходит? Сколько ругани в свой адрес она уже услышала от несдержанных людей, а может ей повезло еще больше и она отхватила хорошего "леща" по своему накрашенному лицу?

 

[Approaching Infinity]

"Normality" is a very slippery thing. I want to give another example of "normality". The video appeared a couple of days ago.
The one who went out, let her put with them
I wanted to share it with you, but I didn't know how to present it. I still don't know, but at least now it will be in the subject and once again to think about something. In the video, a woman, seemingly normal, expresses her feelings about this video of the interrogation of a detained terrorist
The killers were promised 500 thousand rubles each for shooting people
And that's what's interesting. She understands that he "did all this", while not saying a word about what exactly she thinks he did, but the whole video she talks about how her soul hurts, how she couldn't sleep all night because of the shaking dushman, how she wanted to scream to put a jacket on him, he's cold and scared, poor guy. How do you like that? I repeat, it is unclear from this video how accurately she understands what he did, but in any case she could have asked. This madam speaks Russian well, correctly, as ordinary people speak, and her dialect resembles South Russian. This may be said somewhere in the Krasnodar Territory, or it may be in Ukraine. If she still lives in Russia, I wonder how she goes outside now? How much abuse has she already heard from intemperate people, or maybe she was even more lucky and she grabbed a good "bream" (this is a slap in the face) ?

There's also the phenomenon of woman who fall in love with serial killers or mass murderers. Sometimes they are convinced of their innocence. I guess for some people, it does not matter the circumstances. They see someone being abused or appearing fearful, and they react to those signals like a mother would.

 

[ApotheosisMMC.]

There's also the phenomenon of woman who fall in love with serial killers or mass murderers. Sometimes they are convinced of their innocence. I guess for some people, it does not matter the circumstances. They see someone being abused or appearing fearful, and they react to those signals like a mother would.

knowledge... both the woman and the torturers are not seeing-they are aware of the whole panorama.

 

[happyliza]

The recruitment methods of the terrorists are typical Mossad modus operandii. However probably used by others too now.
Re the French and Moscow concerts, very interesting the satanic type topic matter of the groups.
Such would be persona non grata in a new world. But also the Zionist connections interesting too.
Expendable? Possibly for Russia's sake but fit well with the profile of the puppetmasters.
Confusing actually. Yes, warnings possibly to venue owners.
Guess we aint seen nothing yet. Was this really the 9/11 event? Doubt it
More fear/control/usual calling card.
Along with all the other arson and barrages reported continually as they lose their grip.
Am feeling more concerned now of the 'months' the C's just warned us about as will be far more wide reaching. Bound to be major outages too so doubt their media control can manipulate much on that.
Only our 'Knowledge Protects' will be of most use then! IMO

 

[Oxajil]

I personally think that unnecessary cruelty should always be avoided. Given the larger picture and what the terrorists did though, the question remains if that would qualify as unnecessary cruelty? Many would argue that it is necessary in that case especially considering the puppet masters behind it and how they are at war with Russia.

Personally speaking, I think resorting to similar despicable methods terrorists use in order to revenge what they do (no matter how justified it might be) amounts to lowering yourself into the depths of their own despicable darkness yourself. Not good for the soul. I do think though that penalties that don’t involve unnecessary cruelty/sadism such as a quick death by death penalty or life imprisonment are totally justified and good especially if you consider the safety of society as a priority.

It should also be noted in case it wasn’t obvious, just because russian special forces fight for the decent side at the moment, doesn’t mean that there can not be quite a number of cruel and quite frankly psychopathic individuals engaged on that “good side“ as well. Sadists exist everywhere.

That's basically what western MSM is saying. I don't remember reading an article in the MSM about the (still ongoing!) torture innocent Palestinians go through when arrested, and there's no word about the West's own torturous practices to people (who are likely innocent) wherever they went to destroy. But when Russia does it to actual terrorists (whose crimes are on tape and for everyone to see) western countries scream "torture bad".

Meanwhile, serial pedophiles and murderers get light prison sentences in the West and in some western countries get access to a TV, books and whatnot, while survivors who've experienced a brutal loss get a life sentence of their own.

I think their action toward the terrorists was expected considering the factors AI mentioned (instinct, trained for violence) and what Keit mentioned (them being Chechens). Whether or not it was justified, the message is clear: Actions have consequences and don't mess with Russia. Big difference between Russia and the West is that Russia fights neo nazis and terrorists, while the West fights whoever stands in their way, innocent or not. They both kill and torture, but the aim, intent and target differs. Does that make torture right? I don't know, but you won't get answers by asking nicely. I think it depends on the situation. There's also this from a session:

(Perceval) Did Caesar himself ever kill anyone?

A: Many, certainly.

Q: (Perceval) So, given the times around then being very war-like, with a lot of fighting and death going on in general... and with some kind of a Great Soul at the time coming down and... it doesn't necessarily have to be a peacemaker kissing people's feet like Jesus... But is there some thing like what we would understand as a prohibition against killing other people as a requirement for being "spiritually evolved"

A: That idea is for the most part an exaggerated human philosophical construct.

Q: (L) So the idea that...

(Perceval) That to be good, thou shalt not kill...

(Atriedes) But which religion does that come from? The most killingest religion on the planet!

(Perceval) It does seem to... Killing another human being for a normal human being does seem to be quite a traumatic thing.

(Atriedes) It's socially inculcated.

(Perceval) I doubt it. I mean, for soldiers, they come back with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, they're trained to kill, and they want to kill themselves afterwards, ya know? They can't handle the fact that they...

(Pierre) Maybe the difference is that Caesar was aware of the very fundamental reason why he was killing...

A: Caesar intended to eliminate or vastly reduce killing. He knew what he was up against.

It's a difficult topic sometimes, to know what's good or bad (to put it simply) in a certain situation, but I think considering what happened (worst terror attack inside the country in 20 years) and the probable need to get answers quick in order to better be able to implement the necessary safety measures and response, it (the torture) was perhaps what was needed or what was naturally to happen. I could be completely off base, so FWIW.

 

[iamthatis]

That's basically what western MSM is saying. I don't remember reading an article in the MSM about the (still ongoing!) torture innocent Palestinians go through when arrested, and there's no word about the West's own torturous practices to people (who are likely innocent) wherever they went to destroy. But when Russia does it to actual terrorists (whose crimes are on tape and for everyone to see) western countries scream "torture bad".

Meanwhile, serial pedophiles and murderers get light prison sentences in the West and in some western countries get access to a TV, books and whatnot, while survivors who've experienced a brutal loss get a life sentence of their own.

I think their action toward the terrorists was expected considering the factors AI mentioned (instinct, trained for violence) and what Keit mentioned (them being Chechens). Whether or not it was justified, the message is clear: Actions have consequences and don't mess with Russia. Big difference between Russia and the West is that Russia fights neo nazis and terrorists, while the West fights whoever stands in their way, innocent or not. They both kill and torture, but the aim, intent and target differs. Does that make torture right? I don't know, but you won't get answers by asking nicely. I think it depends on the situation. There's also this from a session:



It's a difficult topic sometimes, to know what's good or bad (to put it simply) in a certain situation, but I think considering what happened (worst terror attack inside the country in 20 years) and the probable need to get answers quick in order to better be able to implement the necessary safety measures and response, it (the torture) was perhaps what was needed or what was naturally to happen. I could be completely off base, so FWIW.

Just an FYI, torture doesn't necessarily provide quick answers, let alone true answers. The understanding I've come to is that that the one undergoing torture is just as likely to say anything the torturer wants them to in order to stop the pain as they are to tell the truth.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

It's a difficult topic sometimes, to know what's good or bad (to put it simply) in a certain situation, but I think considering what happened (worst terror attack inside the country in 20 years) and the probable need to get answers quick in order to better be able to implement the necessary safety measures and response, it (the torture) was perhaps what was needed or what was naturally to happen. I could be completely off base, so FWIW.

This one as well:

Session 13 September 2009​

Q: (Joe) That's really interesting because it kind of explains the whole debate over torture, and how they've been trying to get people to accept torture. And more and more facts coming out about the reality of the CIA having tortured and trying to twist that around to get people to accept that as something that is conscionable.

A: Acceptance of torture is the "mark of the beast."

Q: (DD) That's why there's the popularity of television shows like "24". (Joe) Conditioning people. (DD) It's wildly popular. (Joe) I mean, you get all these people who are faced with the real life torture of another human being, and they actually cheer it on. And if that's the same as participation, then these people are all being put on that downward spiral.

A: Remember the "lake of fire" in the Book of Revelation? Remember that those who live by the sword will die by the sword?

Q: (Keit) What's "lake of fire"? (Allen) In Revelation where all those who didn't accept Christ would be thrown in... (Joe) Hell, basically.

A: Soul smashing.

Q: (L) Creepy. (Allen) I'm thinking about all those people who don't necessarily think torture is okay, but they still... like they abhor torture but they're still kind of accepting it because it's necessary, or maybe they just try to not think about it at all. (Joe) Well, people who think it's necessary... (L) They're already lost. They've already bought it. I mean, the scientific evidence is that if you need information or whatever, if there's some justifiable reason, that is NOT the way to get it. The records of the inquisition which are extensive - I mean, tens of thousands of people were tortured and confessed to the most outrageous lies just to get it over with. Just get it over with and let me die! I'll tell you anything you want me to say! And they confessed to flying on broomsticks, to mating with devils, to dancing naked in the moonlight, to kissing each other's backsides... I mean, you name it, and they confessed to it just to get it to stop. And it was ALL horse-hockey! (Allen) And I'm sorry, even if scientific evidence doesn't show that, even if we said, "Oh yeah, torture actually works for getting information," you're still torturing human beings! It's still abhorrent. It's like, how can you do that?! (Keit) The thought I had is that pathology, what is done to children of narcissistic families, it's like torture. (L) It IS torture! (Keit) And what happens is kind of like it poisons them and basically allows them to accept the torture environment. Because they already experienced it, they were like touched by evil. (L) Torturing another human being to force them to say or do something that is against their principles is wrong no matter what your perspective. They are, each individual, entitled to their principles, to their ideas, to their politics whatever. And if you want to change that, or if you think that there is something about their point of view that is threatening to you, then the way to change that is by discourse, by education, by sharing information and data. NOT by trying to force them to go against what is rightfully theirs, at the soul level, by torture! To try to force somebody like that is basically a kind of soul killing of its own. Jesus even said in the New Testament that whoever is a stumbling block to the least of these, it would be better for him that he had never been born. And when he said, "never been born", that's almost like a way of saying his soul is going to be smashed. It's just really astonishing. (DD) What happens to a soul after it is smashed?

A: Primal matter. Start the cycle over. Millions or billions of years acquiring consciousness.

 

[Benjamin]

Just an FYI, torture doesn't necessarily provide quick answers, let alone true answers. The understanding I've come to is that that the one undergoing torture is just as likely to say anything the torturer wants them to in order to stop the pain as they are to tell the truth.

That could be the point, perhaps? Once the tortured 'confirms' the torturer's narrative, that might be the 'permission' that is required to take it to the next step with impunity?

 

[ApotheosisMMC.]

That could be the point, perhaps? Once the tortured 'confirms' the torturer's narrative, that might be the 'permission' that is required to take it to the next step with impunity?

I think it would be something more related to having in an integrated way that the intention to cause suffering and subject the other and in the process feel satisfaction with it, is acceptable.

I do not believe that many torturers have a pure intention of just wanting answers because the situation seems urgent to them and they are only thinking about that. There are other effective investigative methods to reach the truth without having to apply torture.

 

[Bluegazer]

Does that make torture right? I don't know, but you won't get answers by asking nicely. I think it depends on the situation. There's also this from a session:

From these last events I kept thinking... how do you get someone to confess or reveal information without torture? A person can dissuade or they can persuade. In any case, a choice is presented, but one that does not involve direct blackmail, or at least a very, very subtle one.

If these terrorists have families, wives, children, sisters and brothers I think I would remind these terrorists that they have now tainted their families, and that the crime committed against these people will haunt them even after they are dead.

With what face will they be able to look back at their loved ones when the latter reject them for the aberration they have committed?

With this I just think that we should appeal to the conscience of the individual (if there is one) and make them face the consequences of their crime, not towards society and its laws, but towards what they could understand as the most precious (again if they are not all psychopaths).

In the face of remorse they will finally genuinely confess who, how and why in an act of relieving the burden on their being. Maybe this is psychological torture and I am completely wrong but I think it is about confronting them with the horrible reality and the consequences to themselves. If they are made to see the repudiation they will have from their nearest and dearest that it will follow them until death... that they must be made to SEE that THEY have chosen that path of torture. And that if they want to make amends, they should confess.

 

[Corvus]

There is bad, there is good, and there is third way, doing good for greater evil and doing bad for the greater good.

 

[4d candidate]

I watched a video of the arrest of one of the terrorists in the forest, recorded with a camera placed on the forehead of one of the members of the FSB pursuit group, shortly after the attack. This ISIS terrorist was a bit strange because he squealed like a little girl when he was punched several times, punched several times in the face and hit several times in the ribs with a rifle butt while he was lying on the ground. A real ISIS soldier would have been wearing a vest with explosives and would have blown himself up immediately after the massacre, but fortunately these losers pretending to be ISIS fighters were recruited and bribed by similar losers. The order was certainly to capture all the attackers alive, if possible, because they would "sing" everything in the investigation and on this basis it would be possible to determine the real orderholders of the attack, and it was a success. I deliberately do not post the link from Telegram, because I do not see such needs to care for particularly vulnerable people.

 

[Yas]

If you think of examples like pedophiles or rapists getting lynched, 'normal' people can be quite brutal. When we encounter an example of a person who violates our norms so completely, many react instinctively to punish that person (or in many cases, the person they only THINK is responsible), and even to remove them from the gene pool. If security forces are given orders to take someone like this alive, it's not surprising that that they would do whatever they can to give the person what they feel he deserves. Thus the ear, the kicks to the face and body, the repeated slamming of one of their faces into the rocky ground, etc. To the people doing this, this person is a subhuman monster and deserves worse than they give him. Add in the fact that people in these positions are trained for violence, and less likely to be kindly humanitarians by nature.

Yes, I think that the reaction is a 'normal' reaction by these people. The discussion here turned to torture, but I think that what they were doing wasn't necessarily torture in order to get information, it was more like a violent vengeance. I don't condone it and I tend to avoid those videos because I get distressed when I see people being lynched and violently punished like that, regardless of their crimes, but I can understand how, after such a horrible attack that killed so many people, some people can react in such a way, especially if they are trained for violence or accustomed to it.

I think Putin said something that hints to this as well. I can't find the reference but it was something along the lines of that he understands that there's a lot of sorrow but that the trials needed to proceed with complete impartiality and justice. There's also this about the death penalty:

Putin calls for ‘humanism and mercy’ after Moscow terror attack

The Russian president has praised the values of “creativity, humanism and mercy” in coping with the aftermath of terrorism

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