External Consideration turns into Internal Consideration

[OrangeScorpion]

Yes, I also think that Laura talks about superficial conversations. Not important conversations where your advice can help your son or your friend.

Meetings with family or friends where we talk about frivolous things. Often I says to myself, "shut your mouth, don't want stand out above the rest." but I fail many times. I always notice when the meeting is over.

Has apparently been a friendly chat together. But later I begin to think, not what we say but how we have said, and I realize it's been a battle to emphasize some over others.

And I participate like everyone else!!! And then I feel bad and I promise don't participate in this "subtle carnage". But I back repeat the mistake, and I back repeat the mistake...

You know your story is better, you know you could be getting some attention by telling it, but instead, you deliberately and consciously refrain and tell the other guy "what an amazing experience!" and let him have the attention and glory.

How many of you can do it?

All kinds of emotions can arise and there can be an argument in your head that "this time my story or advice REALLY needs to be spoken!" Can you resist that?

I can't, I cannot...

 

[anart]

You know your story is better, you know you could be getting some attention by telling it, but instead, you deliberately and consciously refrain and tell the other guy "what an amazing experience!" and let him have the attention and glory.

How many of you can do it?

All kinds of emotions can arise and there can be an argument in your head that "this time my story or advice REALLY needs to be spoken!" Can you resist that?

I can't, I cannot...

Then persist until you succeed - what more worthy challenge is there? ;)

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Then persist until you succeed - what more worthy challenge is there? ;)

I wonder if the concept of "fake it till you make it" would work in in this effort? For example, I know it can help people become more confident if they just pretend to be confident for a while. The act of pretending "proves" to whatever part of us that was inhibited that when we behave confidently the world doesn't end, so it in turn helps get rid of those false inhibitions and fears. I wonder if a similar approach could help ease the fight against internal considering as well?

Perhaps if we "pretend" to be externally considerate, and justify it to ourselves as an experiment of sorts, the false personality would protest less, thinking that it's just some social experiment. So in each situation we'd ask "What would my externally considerate character do in this situation? Let's try it for fun and see what happens" until we no longer need to ask, because we are that character? Just a thought.

 

[Menna]

Laura - The stalking of the predator or the many I's is a great idea. When I feel the predator arise in my mind I come up behind it throw a bag over it (Trap it) and chuck the bag out of my head (Until the next time). What I will work on next is evoking the predator to show it self and then trap it. I feel like this is a great exercise because if you are playing with the predator or the many I's then you will notice it get familiar with it and it will be less likely to show itself in your actions or you will notice your false personality and not let it manifest in your actions. It seems like all my negative emotions or that what if's - concerns about the future are the many I's or the predators mind at work. Anything that takes me out of the present or leaves a negative emotion in my mind is the predator - I feel that its hard to take the last statement as an absolute (that all the negative emotions and concerns are the predator) but for the most part I believe it to be correct. There is that world believe ahhh to only know the truth - more work to be done.

I do have one questions about resentment - what is the forums take on it? If you resent someone isn’t it your fault because you enabled yourself to resent someone? Isn’t resentment really you resenting yourself because of your choice - you are in denial that you made a bad choice so it turns into resentment?

 

[Gertrudes]

Anything that takes me out of the present or leaves a negative emotion in my mind is the predator - I feel that its hard to take the last statement as an absolute (that all the negative emotions and concerns are the predator) but for the most part I believe it to be correct.

I wouldn't say that negative emotions are necessarily part of the predator's mind, I think that it can often also be the opposite. They can be a much needed sign of what our actual or others' predator is doing, a wake up call so to say. For example, if you are being abused or witness someone being abuse, anger, supposedly a negative emotion, can be a very healthy and appropriate response.

I do have one questions about resentment - what is the forums take on it? If you resent someone isn’t it your fault because you enabled yourself to resent someone? Isn’t resentment really you resenting yourself because of your choice - you are in denial that you made a bad choice so it turns into resentment?

You're probably right in that resentment is you resenting yourself.
Perhaps resentment can also be taken as a learning tool. We are not born taught, and most of us won't certainly learn about emotions afterwords, in many cases we are lucky not to have them suppressed by cultural pressure. So we do make mistakes in our choices that can later lead into resentment. Acknowledging, distinguishing it, and learning with it so as to not repeat the same situation is what is important I would say.

I wonder if the concept of "fake it till you make it" would work in in this effort?

It seems like an appropriate working tool to me.
I find that sometimes one can get intellectually lost in trying to find a way to go about something that seems very hard, becoming wrapped up in mental loops. Simply putting it into action, even if it burns inside because it seems so unnatural or difficult seems to be the way to go in some cases.

 

[OrangeScorpion]

Then persist until you succeed - what more worthy challenge is there? ;)

YES, IT IS!!!

little by little ... nobody said it was easy. ;)

 

[Psalehesost]

Anything that takes me out of the present or leaves a negative emotion in my mind is the predator - I feel that its hard to take the last statement as an absolute (that all the negative emotions and concerns are the predator) but for the most part I believe it to be correct.

I wouldn't say that negative emotions are necessarily part of the predator's mind, I think that it can often also be the opposite. They can be a much needed sign of what our actual or others' predator is doing, a wake up call so to say. For example, if you are being abused or witness someone being abuse, anger, supposedly a negative emotion, can be a very healthy and appropriate response.

I'd go further, and say that I'm not sure that categories of "positive" and "negative" emotions are at all relevant - more useful, I think, is objective and subjective emotions - subjective emotions, the results of identification/internal considering, whether "positive" or "negative", always burning up energy that could otherwise have had a genuine use (for example, self-absorbed bliss and self-important anger equally make you food, I think) - while emotions that come from instinct or from one's essence (genuine emotional self), whether "positive" or "negative", tell something about reality and may serve as genuine fuel.

 

[go2]

George Gurdjieff, when working with pupils in his later years, often said, "One must play a role externally and not identity internally." This reformulation of the concepts of internal and external consideration gives a clear aim and description of practical work. The method is effective in separating the external and internal worlds, with sustained effort. Life always provides a stage upon which to play our roles, while we work internally, in silence. I wrote more on this theme in another thread.

 

[Eongar]

One way to stop the momentum with him to express aspects of false personality, which as one becomes more aware, increases
"vision" to see them-is first to say so, ask: Who wants to express that? I used to wake up. In fact, one thing
important in practical work, especially at first, is to use alarm clocks to "realize. "

Enter the concept of memory itself. We can not observe the 100% if we remind ourselves before. Another practice I use to remind myself to wake up way, ie the use
for now but with time I look stupid, is selecting a Someone from my workplace, and every time I see her, say mentally
things like "remind me of myself. " Or put a stone in the shoe and increasingly bothering me, mentally repeat the phrase. They are small things
to me I slowly being served, at least for now. It is a part of Work. We're always sleeping, and at first it is necessary to
Several alarm clocks to wake up from sleep.

Try doing things that are contrary to the way IT does things, when it isn't in control. Make plans to do things with specific conditions that INCLUDE not being thanked, appreciated, considered, reciprocated, etc. Eventually, it will try to rebel, which means it has to come out of hiding...but you'll be waiting for it, you'll be expecting it. At first, it probably will still get control over you. You can't expect to bag a tiger your first time out. But you will be in a better position to regain yourself and analyze what it felt like when the predator got the upper hand.

All of this means learning how you, in your higher self, acts, then acting like that even if you don't really feel it. Especially if you don't really feel it, because the more it makes you feel like a fool, the more it will bother the false personality and draw it out of hiding.

Specifically, regarding looking for reciprocation for things you do, you can utilize certain stalking techniques. You can do things for others trying to make sure that NO ONE CAN reciprocate. That is, do things anonymously, hit and run do-gooderism, where you are gone BEFORE anyone can acknowledge you or thank you.

The part of you that demands reciprocation will certainly get agitated by doing this. But you will know it is coming and can be read for it, watch it, analyze it. And certainly, you will suffer. Some part of you will be screaming "why are you doing this? You need gratitude, you need reciprocation! You need others to know you exist! and so on.

Each time you get the non-manifestation of the aspects of false personality we achieve a victory.

 

[bjorb]

- Hey everyone, it’s been a while.

I think I have something to contribute:

Stalking your Predator is as ‘luring’ it out.

When you do this:

It may begin to tell itself: But you deserve this, I need this, I am worth it.
And that’s when you can get a glimpse of it,

You can than ask yourself, Why do I deserve this, why do I need this, Why am I worth this

Than remind yourself of it that: Real Love is unconditional, it doesn’t have any expectations for the Ego.

Than you may realize that, Me helping them, is nothing more than an intent at me helping my self-importance to get it’s food.

Love isn’t something you compare, as putting it on a scale, Measuring it’s weight. And judging yourself and others at how many ‘Love’ you deserve to get in return.
Since you supposedly gave them ‘Love’

That isn’t Love at all, but it’s get confused like this. Almost always.


Secondly:

When you are in activities with others, you are sharing all kinds of things with others.

When you have something to share with others, always try to ask yourself: How will this, sharing this with others, help them.

In the End, it’s all about what you are serving.

Are you serving yourself?, or are you serving others?

The more you get Aware of yourself. The more that choose becomes clear.

- or so I think.

 

[Menna]

I agree the more you get to know your false personality and your ego the more you know when NOT to act. This way you know how to serve others better or at least make an effort in the right direction. Yes I knew that internal consideration isnt true love and that it is STS and having an expectation is STS thanks for the input and advice

 

[scifiscriptwriter]

-Than you may realize that, Me helping them, is nothing more than an intent at me helping my self-importance to get it’s food. I

In the End, it’s all about what you are serving.

Are you serving yourself?, or are you serving others?

The more you get Aware of yourself. The more that choose becomes clear.

Have been experimenting with all this myself. It's fun deprogramming all this nasty self-important rubbish. Wish I could do it faster!
Being silent and listening is hard for me - but when I get it right it gives me a sense of poise, calmness and the other person room to relax more.

 

[Gertrudes]

Anything that takes me out of the present or leaves a negative emotion in my mind is the predator - I feel that its hard to take the last statement as an absolute (that all the negative emotions and concerns are the predator) but for the most part I believe it to be correct.

I wouldn't say that negative emotions are necessarily part of the predator's mind, I think that it can often also be the opposite. They can be a much needed sign of what our actual or others' predator is doing, a wake up call so to say. For example, if you are being abused or witness someone being abuse, anger, supposedly a negative emotion, can be a very healthy and appropriate response.

I'd go further, and say that I'm not sure that categories of "positive" and "negative" emotions are at all relevant - more useful, I think, is objective and subjective emotions - subjective emotions, the results of identification/internal considering, whether "positive" or "negative", always burning up energy that could otherwise have had a genuine use (for example, self-absorbed bliss and self-important anger equally make you food, I think) - while emotions that come from instinct or from one's essence (genuine emotional self), whether "positive" or "negative", tell something about reality and may serve as genuine fuel.

Very much so, thanks for putting it so clearly. Following your thoughts, growing, I think, involves learning how to distinguish which are "fake" emotions (ego generated), and which aren't (natural responses from essence).

 

[Paragon]

I'm not sure if my recent experiences are related to any of the concepts discussed on this thread, but I thought I'd share it incase it helps anyone or it is the wrong kind of 'work'

I notice that when I was "self observing" it made me feel very self consious and more aware of my negative thought patterns, which then became worse as I observed them, allowing them to take over and render me unable to focus on the other person because I was too busy worrying what they thought about me.

But then I read what Laura said about doing what IT doesn't like, and I noticed that in work where I serve the public, sometimes when I'm tired and on a 6am start, I dislike being cheery to the customers that are regulars because they expect that I remember their coffee, which irritates me. So I remembered what Laura said and I somehow then realised that my self importance I.e my predators mind, was in control and I had a sudden outburst of anger where I just made the decision to be cheery and not identify with my self importance.

From that point on my day became so much easier and less draining, because I wasn't worrying about other peoples reactions or what they thought of my service, and I was able to perform my job a lot better. I began to realise that my internal chatter and negative thoughts were not there anymore ....because my focus was on making everything else go smoothly that I just 'forgot' about myself. It's very hard to explain this state of mind because it's like a different state of consciousness where I feel so much freer and at peace, as if I'm living life the way it's meant to be. I felt energised interacting with people, rather than drained when I became tired, and I felt comfortable in my own skin no matter what the situation, whereas before it would cause a mechanical reaction if someone looked at me a funny way, for example.

A theory of mine is that I'm a natural introvert but I have somehow stumbled on the ability to switch between an extroverted state and back at will, with the introverted side seeking to experience life from the inner worlds to the outer, and the extroverted side seeking to experience life from reality flowing back to me.

Not sure if I'm making sense, but if anyone has anything useful to add, then I'd be welcome :)

 

[truth seeker]

For what it's worth, I think I have this as well. As I currently see it, I'm introverted yet not shy. Perhaps this is the case with you as well? So while I can engage with others easily for the most part, there comes a point when I need time for myself to process thoughts, feelings, etc. This is not always appropriate though. There are times when I want to disengage but can't due to the specifics of the situation. At times like that, I try to dig deeper and get out of my own way to give what's needed.

It sounds to me like you're on the right track although others may have more to add.