Games

[Tigersoap]

Great comment SAO.

I didn't have experiences like you had Dant.
I just felt over-excited by games and my dreams were hijacked by re-playing the game most often.

Nowadays I am just plainly bored by video games in general, they don't offer much to me in terms of "growing up" I suppose. But I clearly understand people who get stuck for hours playing a video game when you think life has not much else to offer, it's easy to "escape" nowhere.

But I don't feel much better in a way because I swapped playing games on the computer with more "work" (and not the Gurdjieff kind I am afraid.).

There is something I haven't quite understood yet :
If this is made to make us spend more time "outside" ourselves, do you think it will be used as well to create a massive shock if the internet goes down for good (or even for a while) ? So much things are depending on the net today, that's scary.
Sounds like a nice laid plan to give the drug, take back the drug, give it back but with some conditions...

 

[j0da]

back in the days i was fascinated by the whole demo-scene on the C64, and it is the reason why i am a graphics designer today. (inspired me to learn about creating graphics on a computer)
while computer games prevented me from finishing school, they indirectly provided me with an alternate career opportunity.
and i've never regretted not completing school.

Incredible! I was active in polish Amiga scene in mid nineties and I've chosen my profession due to various influences and connections from that time! I was creating bitmap gfx and I haven't reached the "top" at any "party" back then, but was fortunate enough to know personally some of the most talented guys and learn a lot from them.

while computer games prevented me from finishing school, they indirectly provided me with an alternate career opportunity. and i've never regretted not completing school.

Like in your case, Iconoclast, computer games (especially adventure ones) were the source of hell lot of fun and knowledge (english language) and partly inspired me to choose my professionon one hand, but on the other - they have caused me so much problems, that it is hard to recount them all.

I was glued to computer screen since the end of primary school, and it was fine, but in the secondary school it became an ultimate escape from reality. I was troubled therefore I was playing games, thus neglecting my responsibilites, which in turn caused more problems, so I had even more reasons to hide within virtual world. It was a vicious loop, the one which still haunts me from time to time.

One of the problems connected with video games is that they provide instant feedback, instant gratification, which very often suffices to make one feel good, no matter how immaterial and insignificant "the succes" really is. Not much challenge, not much effort, but still, one can be a "winner". Compared with challenges in ordinary life, not mentioning esoteric Work, one gets "results" very fast. NO ONE wants to be a looser, so if he can be a winner, even a winner in virtual universe, you can bet he'll go for it.

Addiction to games seems to be like any other addiction. One cannot just quit, cold turkey. I tried it many times, only to be snapped by an urge to play afterwards. Forcibly putting games away by means of "willpower" (the artificial one) I was later literally struck by one hundred ton command "PLAY", coming back at me like it was tied to the bungee cord.

Now imagine this, the sky gets dark, the wind starts blowing and your windows shake, and suddenly your xbox loses its "power". What is going through your mind at that second? I'm sure it's not "Boy am I glad I spent the last few moments of my life enjoying a good goblin chase!", but by then, regrets will not matter anymore. If we really understood the seriousness, the true terror and urgency of our predicament, games would be the LAST thing on our mind. It's literally like sitting in the middle of a nuclear holocaust, and as buildings are blown up around you and people are dying as a dark cloud descends, you're very busy trying to get mario to jump over that big block at the end of level 3 and are getting all flustered doing it too. That's really, without much exaggeration, how ridiculous it is at this point in time.

I hear you, friend. And I absolutely agree with you - it is ridiculous and a rational man needs no more to know. But, so often we loose our rationality.

If I can slip here a little bit of my history again, I can tell that many, many times I acted completely irrationaly, even facing very troublesome consequences - and all of this was connected with games. During school - if I had an exam next day, many times I was playing till three o'clock in the morning, only to suddenly stop and think "oh my God, what have I done - I'm tired, I haven't learned a bit and I have only five hours to do figure something out". Usually, this extremely erratic behaviour followed some pattern, the same sequence of actions - like a coffe; a bath; game; a break; a cigarette; a movie; a cigarette; a game; SNAP - sun rises and I'm in deep s**t.

Similar situations repeated during my professional career. At times, I managed to "save the day" by excruciating effort, followed by complete exhaustion and illness. BUT, there were times that IT WAS REALLY TOO LATE and I COULD DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it. It gives me shivers, but I have to face the possibility that such scenario can repeat, being an ULTIMATE end for me. Thanks God for the shocks I find here, so they manage to wake me up from feeblemindedness.

 

[sHiZo963]

Great thread! It's interesting to see how many of us shared the same experiences regarding games. It's comforting that most of us have come to similar conclusions over time. This is probably one of the main reasons we are here on this forum and engaging in the Work - because we were able to, at least to a critical extent, disassociate ourselves from the virtual gaming world and focus more on objective reality.

Regarding games themselves, it's amazing how much they've DEvolved in recent years. Every single game coming out now is prettier ('shinier') than the last and simplified to the brink of idiocy! I remember the good-'ol-days when games actually took some brainpower to figure out: that had some engaging and thought-provoking story line, a great mystery to solve, even multiple ways of solving said mystery. Not anymore. Most games now-a-days revolve around body counts, seeking out special items, and instant gratification through solving mundane and simple goals - there's no creativity anymore in the 'substance' of games. Ponerization strikes again...

There was a similar discussion about video games on CassChat not too long ago. One thing that was mentioned there and discussed is the emotional attachment most gamers have to their characters in games: how much negative emotions stem from 'messing up' and 'dying' in games and how all of that energy probably goes straight to feed our STS 'buddies.' Taking this into account, video games are nothing more than 'virtual farms' of 3D energy. Matrix, anyone?

 

[Serivas]

I never played Civilization but a flatmate of mine did and you know what. He spent so much time playing it that in the end, he was both playing and cursing it at the same time. Cursing it because it took so much time and he was so tired but unable to part with it. Talk about a good and informative game!

Yea, I can see where he's coming from, entire games can last 20+ hours. I too remember a few times I've stayed up waaaay past my preference. Even with other games, I've been kept up past 5AM, my sleeping habits were chaotic and low quality, so needless to say I was not happy... for the next week I couldn't sleep right.

erm, Civilization is basically about building up a self-serving power-hierarchy in order to conquer the world. I'm not judging - I've played it myself, and thoroughly enjoyed it. but, when it comes to analysing what real 'value' it has, it is important to see it for what it is, and not kid oneself.

Well, yea. In later games theres the space race victory, and a diplomatic victory. The space race victory is who can build a spaceship first to colonize other planets and the diplomatic victory is where you need other players/AI to agree to let you win. But.... I haven't really thought of it that way.

In reply to ScioAgapeOmnis:

I think largely I was bored because I wasn't doing anything and nothing was catching my attention. The things you said about substituting reality also makes sense. But, to me it just kinda feels like I'm trapped with nowhere to go. Theres always the option to go to the library, or search back and fourth on the internet for various libraries of information about things, but I wouldn't know what to look up. Though, I'm not exactly sure what the C's meant. it's been said many times before that you can't create reality, but I think thats different from accessing them.

On a side-note, I usually get game-influenced dreams if I've stop playing a specific game once or twice. Otherwise my dreams are like usual, surreal.

Anyway, I had to do a string of things before I could send this reply. So if it seems like I've ignored some of the later posts, then that means I goofed.

edit: Fixed typo.
edit 2: in reply to sHiZo963:

I wholly agree, newer games are simple, and rarely do they actually require some amount of intelligence. I miss the good ol' days.

 

[anart]

Theres always the option to go to the library, or search back and fourth on the internet for various libraries of information about things, but I wouldn't know what to look up.

Hi Serivas, what you're saying makes sense - I'm wondering how your found our forum? You mentioned previously that you randomly surf internet sites - what brought you here? Just curious.

 

[monkee]

Regarding games themselves, it's amazing how much they've DEvolved in recent years. Every single game coming out now is prettier ('shinier') than the last and simplified to the brink of idiocy! I remember the good-'ol-days when games actually took some brainpower to figure out: that had some engaging and thought-provoking story line, a great mystery to solve, even multiple ways of solving said mystery. Not anymore. Most games now-a-days revolve around body counts, seeking out special items, and instant gratification through solving mundane and simple goals - there's no creativity anymore in the 'substance' of games. Ponerization strikes again...

I think it's good that most games are idiotic now, so I play much less than years ago. This is also why that I prefer to play mystery solving, thought provoking adventures. They are not addictive to me since I don't have the desire to replay after I finished them.

In a sense the PTB are playing some sort of Empires building game too. But they also seem to use the "unlimited money cheat" ;)

 

[brandon]

I have been into computer games since I was a kid in the late 80s, playing Commodore 64 (though where I am in Australia I was a few years behind Americans and Europeans, and very isolated from the computer "scene" - i only knew one other person with a computer).. Wanting to learn how to make my own games got me started programming in C64 BASIC, which is where I started to learn what little maths I do know - wasn't interested in it at school for some reason...

Back then games were like a social thing for my friend and I, we'd go over each others' houses and watch each other play (or play 2-player games) and try to figure out how to get through the games together etc..

Fast forward to the late 90s..... Then I played mainly First Person Shooters, because they were there.. but they made me incredibly tense, and all my dreams took the form of computer games, so I gave up gaming entirely for awhile.

In more recent years I have taken up gaming again, but it's not like when I was a kid. I'm still not into any first-person view games.. most of the games I'm into these days are good to play in short bursts, 10 or 15 minutes at a time.. puzzle and arcade games (and C64 games from my childhood - such great music in those!) - though I always have the feeling of wasting time, and usually end up using the computer for something creative instead.

There are very few modern games that interest me, they mostly seem to be like simulations of real life things such as war, sports, etc. I was always into games which let you explore fantastic environments and such, and interested in the art of creating games. I'm lucky, I don't find them hugely addictive, and I don't get extremely immersed. The feeling they're a waste of time keeps me from sitting down and playing for long.

One thing I find interesting is computer games as storytelling. For example, the japanese role playing game series Final Fantasy, which seems to be an "you either love it or hate it" type thing... The later few games in the series haven't interested me, but some earlier ones, FF7 in particular, i think are great at storytelling. The stories usually involve things like megacorporations who control the government, mining the planet of its natural resources and keeping the people in [happy] slavery.. and small groups of rebels who fight them. "Love" between people is usually a big theme in these games, and I quite like how it's represented. It's not lust, and it's not possession... it's shown more like..hmm.. an unspoken bond between individuals. It's basically platonic love I guess. That's how I interpret it anyway. Of course all this is wrapped in a game where you have to go and "kill the bad guys!"...perhaps because otherwise it wouldn't sell.

Another good game story is that of Beyond Good & Evil, in which an alien race is "attacking" your planet... you play as a reporter, and you end up uncovering the fact that your planet's government is in cahoots with, and controlled by, the aliens, and is letting them kidnap people for whatever reason, and using the attacks to control the populace with fear... (oh and later you find out that you yourself have some kind of alien genetics in you, which is part of the reason you can stop the aliens, IIRC).

So I think it's possible that the storytelling in some games could help to wake people up, make them go and search out real information, etc, in the same way that some movies can. But at the same time, i can't get away from the fact that gaming is a horrible waste of time for me! And it seems like most modern games are well...like most other modern mass media. Circuses (as in bread and circuses).

There's another gaming trend, similar to "reality tv".. The Sims... sim this and sim that. I find these a bit disturbing. There's no storytelling involved, and no purpose I can see. It's totally a micro-[fake]reality for people to get lost in.

An interesting thing about that Beyond Good & Evil game - it did not do well at all, commercially. Apparently there were 2 sequels planned, but they aren't happening because barely anyone bought the game. People who played it loved it, but it's quite hard to find.. like it sort of got buried.

 

[Iconoclast]

[...]and C64 games from my childhood - such great music in those!) [...]

yes! i love(d) those great tunes too. many years ago, i even recorded some to tape and played them while driving my car... :)

in case you're interested, there is a huge collection of C64 sounds available for free: http://www.hvsc.c64.org/
(45 MB, 33.000 tunes!)

The High Voltage SID Collection (HVSC) is a freeware hobby project which organises Commodore
64 music (also known as SID music) into an archive for both musicians and fans alike. The work
on the collection is done completely in the Team and contributors' spare time and is proudly
the largest and most accurate computer music collection known.

and there are of course those that remix classic c64 music: http://remix.kwed.org/
(check out the kick-ass rock version of 'Great Giana Sisters' by Machinae Supremacy!)

 

[Beau]

Another game that is conspiracy-based from just a few years back is Deus Ex. It was a mix of FPS and role-playing. There were educational monologues in it as well.

hXXp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

 

[Cyre2067]

Dude Deus Ex Rocked. It was a nice blend of the RPG/FPS genres and the storyline was interesting. Genetically engineered virus, government controlled cure, illuminati/MJ12, it was all very nicely done. Played that long before i found cass thou.

I've also noticed Blizzard has been putting out extremely good games. They opened with Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans, and followed that up with two sequels and xpacs. Starcraft is similar, but space based. Both are Real-Time Strategy Games, and i think to this day Starcraft: Broodwar (xpac) is quite possibly the best RTS on the planet. They're also the makers of World of Warcraft which is the MMORPG based off the RTS. It's addictive, but i find it's a 'carrot on a stick' dynamic where you're constantly trying to get just that next 'thing' that makes you more 'uber' (powerful). Took years for me to realize what it was behind the fancy spellcasting and the awesome graphics.

Actually there's a lot of evidence to suggest that gaming can be addictive. The same chemical reactions can occur in one's brain when playing WoW as a crack cocaine addict getting his 'fix', so it's quite serious.

Serivas, have you read throu the wave series? If you're here i would assume you found something on the site that caught yer attention - or was it just from all the good news catching?

btw the wave series is available here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/waveindex.htm

I don't really play vids anymore, grew out of them so to speak. I do enjoy a good round in an RTS thou, to me it's like 4-6 player chess, with better graphics and more options.

 

[sHiZo963]

Another game that is conspiracy-based from just a few years back is Deus Ex. It was a mix of FPS and role-playing. There were educational monologues in it as well.

hXXp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex

That was quite possibly the best game I've ever played. When I was writing my previous post - complaining about dumbed-down games now-a-days - I was definitely thinking back to the blast I had playing Deus Ex back in the day. It presented a lot of interesting material to a kid in 6-7th grade. The story-line was excellent, as Cyre mentioned, and I wouldn't be surprised if it, in some indirect way, impacted my thinking processes to eventually lead me to the Cass material; who knows?!

Interesting tid-bit about Deus Ex... from the Wikipedia article linked by Beau, we find:

During sections of the game where the New York skyline is visible in the background, the two towers of the World Trade Center are noticeably missing; the real towers were destroyed a year after the game was released. Harvey Smith has explained that due to texture memory limitations, the portion of the skyline with the twin towers exists in the game's data files but had to be left out of the final game, with the other half mirrored in place of it. According to Smith, during the game's development, the developers justified the lack of the towers by stating that terrorists had destroyed the World Trade Center earlier in the game's storyline.

Game released on June 22, 2000 and was quite popular. The universe is full of interesting coincidences...

 

[Serivas]

Hi Serivas, what you're saying makes sense - I'm wondering how your found our forum? You mentioned previously that you randomly surf internet sites - what brought you here? Just curious.

It's hard for me to remember, but I was, as you said, randomly browsing the internet. I think it was when I found this one site, its name obscure and hard to spell. (http:(xx)www(d)goroadachi(d)com/etemenanki/ from my bookmarks. It's a little strange and I'm not sure that I buy into it. But the theories are interesting enough. Although recently, most of the site has become a pay-to-view site under the claims that a radio show host was stealing his material. Dubious because that radio host wouldn't have an issue resuming his activities if he wanted to....) Anyway... it had a link to a web-ring that SotT was a part of. The web-ring was something on the topic of Armageddon and/or conspiracy theories. Rinse and Infowars were also there. I saw SotT first, then somewhere they mention C's as they did a lot at the time and I followed up on it to another part of the site where I read the wave series. I think it's really interesting, but I do have a few minor disagreements, but for the most part it seems to make sense. In the interest of staying on topic though, I would prefer we save that for another thread :p. I havn't read the Adventure series that the Wave series references on a few times though. Then I've pretty much read SotT daily sense.

Now, on topic, on another site that I doubt any of you would want to know about, its said that every time someone mentions Deus Ex, someone re-installs the game. It's one of those classics. though, I disliked the sequel. It seems a tad bit more linear.

 

[Peto]

Hi Cyre2067,

I played mostly role-playing games, both real-time and turn-based. And yes, Blizzard is one of the best, if not the best game maker in that genre. I played all of their games, except WoW, which came out after I quit playing. I have to admit I really enjoyed playing them even after I realized their negative effects. That speaks volumes about the games' addictive power.

 

[GRiM]

*grim roll 18 and successfully cast resurrection on "games" thread*
^_^

Computer game delusions.

CASE HISTORY

A young man was admitted from prison to a psychiatric facility after reports that he had been acting in a bizarre manner. He had been arrested for stealing motor vehicles and assaults with weapons. At interview he was found to be experiencing the delusion that he was a player inside a computer game (adult-certificate game, widely available) in which points are scored for stealing cars, killing assailants and avoiding police vehicles. Psychotic symptoms had emerged slowly over two years. His family had noticed him becoming increasingly withdrawn and isolated from social activities. He developed delusions that strangers were planning to kill him and also experienced auditory hallucinations, constantly hearing an abusive and derogatory voice. Previously a computer enthusiast, he began to play computer games incessantly. He felt that the games were communicating with him via the headphones. In a complex delusional system he came to believe he was inside one of these games and had to steal a car to start scoring points. He broke into a car and drove off at speed, believing he had `invulnerable' fuel and so could not run out of petrol. To gain points he chose to steal increasingly powerful vehicles, threatening and assaulting the owners with weapons. Later he said he would have had no regrets if he had killed someone, since this would have increased his score.

After arrest and while in prison he continued to believe he was in the game, despite initial medication. When he was admitted to hospital six weeks later, part of ward management was to deny him access to computer games. Nothing abnormal was found on physical examination, blood investigations, drug screen, electroencephalography or a computed tomographic brain scan. Paranoid schizophrenia was diagnosed and he responded well to further treatment with antipsychotic medication.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1281391


edit: Game in question is Grand Theft Auto (one of the newer versions)

 

[Rockimedes]

My room mates just bought game called Guitar Hero. Instead of a normal controller, you hold a guitar that has five colored buttons. As the song plays different colored notes come flying at you on a conveyor belt type thing and you have to hit the right color at the right time. It is one of the most horrible things I have encountered. Since buying the game, my room mates rarely play real guitar anymore; why practice for years when you can be a rock star instantly? I tried it once and felt extreme vertigo, and my vision was blurry for quite a while afterwards, and honestly made me feel like I was intoxicated or under the influence of psilocybin. Everyone I have seen play it is immediately hypnotized and has difficulties stopping. It's like Warcrack but accessible to non-RPG'ers. Anyone else have similiar experiences with it?