Gold

[go2]

While I appreciate the historic record of gold's value, I don't think any of that history involved a total wipe out of all infrastructure where humans, regardless of wealth eventually become equally poor and focused on survival.

The coins of the Roman Empire have value today. The value of the Roman gold in the mind of man has traversed two millennia and the total collapse of civilization and the passing of hundreds of generations. Your perception of gold is too subjective. Its value exists in the mind of man to satisfy a need to preserve and transfer capital though time and space. The people of India hold in private hoards an estimated 13,000 tons of gold. The mass mind of India determines gold serves a function of saving and transferring capital to future generations. It is a deep human need, perhaps spiritual in that it concerns hope for the future of our grandchildren.

If such a catastrophic event, or series of events were to happen, gold might have widespread value initially, but once the average person is starving, there would be few places gold would have any value.

Gold will have little use in the immediate chaos of collapse. It lies very still, waiting for a time to deploy in the service of mankind. It serves a deep human need, in that it concerns hope for the future of our grandchildren. Our savings are recognized across time and space within the mind of man, as history evidences. Most do not understand physical gold does not serve the selfish function well. Force and fiat are more useful for selfish motive. Gold serves the future of mankind.

At that point, there still would be the well heeled and the well connected, hoarding gold in their wishful thinking, but the average person would be so out of the loop, they would have a hard time trading the little gold they managed to save.

Yes, all that selfish motive and wishful thinking too. The average person is asleep without means or motive to hope for the future of our grandchildren. Should those with capacity sacrifice hope? Hope is not wishful thinking, a subtle distinction requiring faith in our being and an act which may or may not have consequences in an unknown future for others. The Roman who buried gold is long gone, but his hope for the future is one of the essential impulses making us human. It is a gesture, my friend.

The only people interested in buying or trading gold, would be the few extremely wealthy who remembered their history lessons and who, through their wishful thinking, plan to be even more wealthy once society rebuilds.

Perhaps you have not considered the millions of Indians who own a little gold or those Europeans and Arabs whose gold lies very still waiting to be deployed in the service of future generations. This collapse of the Dollar Reserve slave system can be considered an opportunity for those with a sense of history and service to aid humanities struggle against the slave master. Perhaps, the frugal Indian merchant with a few ounces of gold will be wealthy in a few decades. He will be deploying capital, not those who today feel entitled to exist by looting or by charity today.

However, the wealthy will only be able to survive on their material wealth for so long. Once they run out of food stores and have to start scavenging just like the few poorer souls who managed to survive, their gold will be worthless.

Do you think all those with a little capital save it by looting? Gold serves to prevent looting the labor and creativity of mankind by lying very still, awaiting the disaster which is more likely to destroy the incompetent and looters than the frugal and quiet who serve God and man. Gold will not be worthless. It serves the saving function within the mind of man, at least many men and women in the so called third world who are not hypnotized to not know history or to not understand simple things like the difference between paper and gold. There is much confusion between gold as money and gold as an asset. In this difference of understanding you will find the source of your incomprehension of the function of gold as FreeGold and its possibility to serve the future of our grandchildren. It makes stealing more difficult, hence the deployment of the "gold is a barbaric relic" suggestion to deceive the gullible men and women of the Western World. Gold serves those who have knowledge of the psychology of looters and their methods of deception.

After an ice age, commetary bombardment, earthquakes, volcanoes, flooding and increased solar radiation,
There will be no rebuilding, there probably won't be any rebuilding and there certainly won't be any wealth, at least not by standard definitions

There will be rebuilding as long as three brained beings exist on this planet. Some time this ray of creation dies. You do not know the time or the means. I have worked on being. I have paid to hope, to make a gesture. I acknowledge the minor function gold may have in any future, compared to the metaphoric gold of the spiritual evolution of men and women. Perhaps, the evolved and awake mind of men and women will use FreeGold to serve the function of saving and transferring value through time and space while discouraging looting.

Thank you for the opportunity to make a small contribution, Gonzo.

 

[Mike]

Agreed. Don't count out silver too.

I agree. Silver is probably the better item to put your money into since any stores of silver are being used up for technology and other uses besides a store of value. Ted Butler that used to post a weekly commentary at investment rarities - latest:
http://www.investmentrarities.com/ted_butler_comentary08-04-10.shtml (and now has his own pay website) has been describing this for years. His contention is that all the above ground silver is being used up and that silver will again meet or go beyond the 16:1 ratio (currently at around 65:1). Of course the Comex and all other places that deal with commodities and precious metals are being manipulated. I have some of both, but if I was going to put money aside I would go with silver. The only issue is that it is harder to store if you buy many oz as compared to gold.

@Gonzo - I look at precious metals this way, a person has to put savings somewhere. I have them for post hyperinflation to sell before the slow catastrophe that has been slowly getting going picks up steam so that I can take care of family and friends that are in the dark about all of this and to hopefully be able to support FOTCM.

 

[Guardian]

However, the wealthy will only be able to survive on their material wealth for so long. Once they run out of food stores and have to start scavenging just like the few poorer souls who managed to survive, their gold will be worthless.

Their gold is already worthless, they just don't know it. Gold corrupts the soul. Traditional Indians know it, Thor's daughters and sons know it...there's no better bait for an STS hook than the lure of gold! It anchors the mind in a physical illusion and creates a fear based reality by focusing one's energy on possessing and protecting material "wealth"

I've looked at some of the links provided in this thread, and most of the pages promoting the "benefits" of gold ownership are maintained by people trying to sell gold. What a surprise.

Of course the real issue is why are all these people who're allegedly convinced the Dollar and Euro are going to collapse are putting so much effort into convincing you to trade your dollars or euros for their gold? It never ceases to amaze me how easily man is tricked into fashioning his own chains.

GREAT old movie ...as relevant today as when it was made:
http://reviews.wikinut.com/Mackenna-s-Gold-1968/1360025i/

 

[SilverJeep]

However, the wealthy will only be able to survive on their material wealth for so long. Once they run out of food stores and have to start scavenging just like the few poorer souls who managed to survive, their gold will be worthless.

Their gold is already worthless, they just don't know it. Gold corrupts the soul. Traditional Indians know it, Thor's daughters and sons know it...there's no better bait for an STS hook than the lure of gold! It anchors the mind in a physical illusion and creates a fear based reality by focusing one's energy on possessing and protecting material "wealth"

I've looked at some of the links provided in this thread, and most of the pages promoting the "benefits" of gold ownership are maintained by people trying to sell gold. What a surprise.

Of course the real issue is why are all these people who're allegedly convinced the Dollar and Euro are going to collapse are putting so much effort into convincing you to trade your dollars or euros for their gold? It never ceases to amaze me how easily man is tricked into fashioning his own chains.

GREAT old movie ...as relevant today as when it was made:
http://reviews.wikinut.com/Mackenna-s-Gold-1968/1360025i/

That can be said by just about anything someone obsesses about. Food, Federal Reserve Notes, land, technology, power. To have something and not be consumed by it should be our goal no matter what it is. In these times, Federal Reserve Notes are the illusion of wealth. It is paper, nothing more. Someday people will laugh that we actually attached value to it.

To demonize someone selling you gold for FRN’s is silly. No one says gold is a currency to be used in commerce today, only when the FRN collapses. Until then it is one of the only safe places to retain value. An investment. The guy selling the gold has to use FRN’s to pay his house note, buy his food just like you. AND, to buy more gold to sell to you. How is that tricking anyone?

 

[Guardian]

There's a HUGE frequency difference between human created paper instruments representing wealth and one of the densest natural elements on the planet. They can put as many symbols on their paper as they wish and they still can't create the same attachment potential as that of gold.

Ever heard of anyone getting "Federal Reserve Note Fever?" ;)

 

[Gonzo]

Ever heard of anyone getting "Federal Reserve Note Fever?" ;)

Yep, in Canada we call it Lotto Fever, which occurs every time one of the many provincial lottery jackpots get so big that the average person feels foolish not to buy a ticket.
This is even stranger, as one piece of paper represents a chance to own other pieces of paper.

In all seriousness though, even though paper dollars have no value beyond what TPTB decide they have, they are still used for everyday transactions, even more so on the black (or grey) market.

There will be a time when the illusion and its supports fail, but until then, cash still has value.

Gonzo

 

[go2]

Their gold is already worthless, they just don’t know it .

No, gold has value in the minds of men and women who accept it in exchange for labor and goods. This is true for a large fraction of humanity.

Gold corrupts the soul.

The soul is corrupted by desire and illusion from within. Gold is a stable element and outside the soul. It is true gold attracts the mind. It is hope for the soul. It is an asset saving one’s creation for another time and place.

Traditional Indians know it, Thor's daughters and sons know it...there's no better bait for an STS hook than the lure of gold!

Indian traditional ways have much to emulate and consider, but their traditions with respect to exchange, measuring value, and saving are suited to small tribal communities. We know how their traditions play out in larger populations, Aztec traditions for example. Power over others is a more powerful STS lure than gold. Gold serves a function for STO. It can serve to avoid looting of our labor by STS.

It anchors the mind in a physical illusion and creates a fear based reality by focusing one's energy on possessing and protecting material "wealth"

No, gold is not an illusion. It is an element whose properties make it an ideal vehicle for transferring value through time and space. The fear based reality and illusion are not created by gold. Fear and illusion are properties of the sleeping mind, not properties of gold. Any idea, thing, group, or person can serve the sleeping mind as focus of its dreams. Gold is not a unique focus in this regard.

I've looked at some of the links provided in this thread, and most of the pages promoting the "benefits" of gold ownership are maintained by people trying to sell gold. What a surprise.

I count thirty-one hot links on this thread, only four links to gold dealers, and an additional eight links to sites with gold advertisers. It is necessary to be accurate to avoid
emotional bias and false deduction.

Of course the real issue is why are all these people who're allegedly convinced the Dollar and Euro are going to collapse are putting so much effort into convincing you to trade your dollars or euros for their gold?

What is your answer to this question? If you wish to explore possible answers to this question, please spend the weeks to read the archive on FOFOA. There you will find possibilities from minds clearer and more experienced than mine. They propose FreeGold as the inevitable solution to looting. Mankind needs a means to measure and store value. Gold is the means determined by billions of human minds over millennium.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily man is tricked into fashioning his own chains.

It is worse than that, Guardian. People love their chains. The way out is hard and dangerous work. Take time to consider all points of view, especially your own. Our automatic reactions and our unconsidered beliefs are chains more terrible than debt. We cannot see the chains which deceive our mind. We need a network to point out those terrible chains. Gold is not a chain. Gold is simply the best vehicle to serve the value measuring and value storing function necessary and useful in economy. Gold serves this function free of corruption of promises to pay, hence its preference as a savings and measuring tool by simple people.

 

[MichaelM]

Imho, gold is just another agreed upon means of exchange. Not a popular means of exchange at this point. It definitely is has a history of being a means of exchange that has been used in different periods of time. But then it is still just an agreed upon means of exchange.
Owning gold is more a "bet" than an "investment". When one decides to own gold, one is betting that it will be a means of exchange in another period of time.
The history of using gold as a means of exchange in the past only serves as references/data points for calculating the "probability" that it will be used again as a means of exchange in the future.

With the future being open, we could very well use gold as a means of exchange after suddenly being aware that FRNs and the system behind it (fractional reserve) is open to abuses.
With the future being open, we could also all suddenly find ourselves aware enough and coming to a consensus that we don't need to use gold as a means of exchange. We could very well start trading in reiki symbols / crop circles when we meet up in 4D.

Just my two (copper plater zinc) cents. :P

 

[go2]

Imho, gold is just another agreed upon means of exchange.

Money serves three functions. It is a medium of exchange. It is a store of value. It is a unit of measure of value. OK. This is the definition of money.

The age of gold serving all these functions of money is over, never to return. The mind of man has moved on. Fiat has attempted to serve these three useful functions. It is now failing to serve as a reliable store of value and as a measure of value. Necessity moves the mind of man to separate the three functions of money in this age. The US Dollar Reserve system is failing now. The collapse of US Dollar is the result of its failure to serve as a reliable store and measure of value as required for the dollar to be accepted as money. The dollar is being repudiated as money. Gold will not be a means of exchange, it will be a reserve asset.

When one decides to own gold, one is betting that it will be a means of exchange in another period of time.

One who understands money buys gold as a reserve asset, not a medium of exchange. It is the reserve asset of the European Central Banks. It is the reserve asset of Arab oil producers. It is the reserve asset of Indian families. It is the reserve asset of Chinese manufacturers. This is the future of gold. Gold will be the last liquid asset when the "promises to pay" burn in the coming firestorm of the fiat currency slave system. The big interests are moving into gold as the preferred asset to cross the abyss of collapse of the US Dollar reserve fraud. The dollar is a "promise to pay" which will not be honored. The mind of man searches for safety from the fire of burning "promises to pay". Gold is the asset being accumulated as we speak. The big interests wish gold to be widely accumulated to add legitimacy to FreeGold as the reserve asset serving as a store of value. FreeGold will not be legal tender, it will be a reserve asset. Iran bought 24 tons of gold in the last three months. They do not trust paper. No one trusts paper. We have an alternative determined to be FreeGold. This is determined by the mind of man in millions of transactions. Gold is valuable because mankind needs it to serve as a store and measure of value.

A gram of gold will be the absolute measure of the value of future fiat. It will make it more difficult for corrupt governments and bankers to loot the creation of our labor. They will be disciplined by gold. Those who buy gold consider it not a bet, but insurance and a means to preserve capital through the destruction of "promises to pay" and beyond. Gold is bought so that our grandchildren will have gold as a reserve asset into the future. This is a valuable function. The mind of man and the market will determine the future price of gold's value and measuring function. It is my opinion that mankind will highly value a reliable medium of money's measuring and storing function.

It is necessary to understand the separation of money's three functions into fiat for exchange and gold for store and measure of value to assess the future possibilities for gold. When you realize what this means you will act.

With the future being open, we could also all suddenly find ourselves aware enough and coming to a consensus that we don't need to use gold as a means of exchange. We could very well start trading in reiki symbols / crop circles when we meet up in 4D.

Remember, the price of gold is completely arbitrary. I am afraid the oil producers and German manufactures will not accept reiki symbols for oil and machine tools.
They demand gold. No one trusts paper. If mankind has a future, gold will be there serving as a measure and store of value. Gold's elemental properties and history make it the inevitable choice to measure and store value.

 

[Gonzo]

I still don't get how gold will be of any significant value to disorganized and wounded generations of future cave people.

Granted precious metals were precious for a reason, but its value would have reached a significant level only after basic needs are comfortably met.

The value of gold is variable even today, so, in that sense, I get what MM meant regarding gold be a bet on its future value. One would hope their stores either remain the same or increase in value.

Considering that in my youth, many traders lost a fortune when gold dropped and they lamented the days when it was $300 per ounce. Now its value is ridiculously high.

Its rarity used to be part of the equation of its value, bit since extraction techniques have improved, previously closed mined are re-opening after 50 years of being closed. Something is affecting the price of gold that has more to do with manipulation of markets than anything else, allowing the rich to get richer.

But I can foresee a time when everything falls apart after ice age, cemetery bombardments, super volcanic eruptions and earthquakes that will be so devastating that the few survivors will be uninterested in gold's value. They will be carrying the few worldly possessions they feel would benefit them, and I doubt much gold will be in anyone's backpack. A piece of flint would be more important at that point.

Honestly, I don't understand the strong attachment some of you have with gold. You must have a lot more money than I do to generate ways to try to retain such currency/trading value after a catastrophe. Most people don't have much money and so, such conversations are moot.

Heck, I don't even know where you would store it. Your house could be swallowed up by the earth or burning in a river of lava, or smashed by a bollide, or, if standing, raided by the few survivors looking for anything to cure their hunger, illness, thirst or boredom. The gold reserves may very well end up buried deep in the Earth, never to be seen again.

Whatever possessions you have, take energy to protect. Whatever attachment to possessions you have takes from your awareness, IMHO.

As you drag your wounded, starving body around in a daze, trying to find food and shelter, will you actually be thinking about gold? With whom do you think you will be trading it? What if those very people you think who would be interested in trading and collecting are either dead or have lost everything just like the rest. What value will gold have if nobody cares about it. You may have to travel thousands of miles to trade gold with the few who think it has any value. In the meantime, you will have to endure raiders and psychopaths, hunger and total lack of basic needs. Eventually you may find that whatever energy you expend in trying to take gold to a trader takes away from satisfying your basic needs.

I can certainly see how trusting in gold retaining a value in a post apocalyptic world is indeed a gamble.

Gonzo

 

[Gimpy]

I still don't get how gold will be of any significant value to disorganized and wounded generations of future cave people.

The common people of ancient Mexico referred to gold as "God's excrement." ;) I'm basically of Guardians mind: if I had some money it would go to land to feed people. To me that's just basic sense. Its tough to remain adaptable to what may come if you're worried about protecting a horde of metal, osit. Its just one more means to divide and conquer.

 

[go2]

Whatever possessions you have, take energy to protect. Whatever attachment to possessions you have takes from your awareness, IMHO.

Hi Gonzo, Have you considered that your greatest possession is your certainty that mankind will be reduced to a few traumatized survivors tommorrow. Certainty narrows awareness. Most who own gold consider it insurance in case the world is not totally destroyed tomorrow.

if I had some money it would go to land to feed people. To me that's just basic sense. Its tough to remain adaptable to what may come if you're worried about protecting a horde of metal, osit. Its just one more means to divide and conquer.

Hi Gimpy, What will you use to buy tools or food if your crops fail? Millions of Indian farmers have a few grams of gold. Gold is insurance protecting against crop failure, war, economic collapse, ill health, corrupt officials, etc. Owning and protecting land requires much more energy and attention than gold. I know from experience.

Land has divided and destroyed many more people than gold. It is a possession more fought over than gold. It limits ones mobility. Think of Palestine.

 

[Gimpy]

if I had some money it would go to land to feed people. To me that's just basic sense. Its tough to remain adaptable to what may come if you're worried about protecting a horde of metal, osit. Its just one more means to divide and conquer.

Hi Gimpy, What will you use to buy tools or food if your crops fail? Millions of Indian farmers have a few grams of gold. Gold is insurance protecting against crop failure, war, economic collapse, ill health, corrupt officials, etc. Owning and protecting land requires much more energy and attention than gold. I know from experience.

Land has divided and destroyed many more people than gold. It is a possession more fought over than gold. It limits ones mobility. Think of Palestine.

If crops fail, there are always options: gathering wild edibles, hunting etc. Eating preserved foods stored in case of famine etc. As for trade, there's more to bartering than using metal. In my experience, knowledge tends to be more precious than gold....and I've lived a long time with nothing and bartered what skills I do have for whatever I needed. Its what you know and do that has the most value osit. You don't have to be 'tied down' to land.

If it gets destroyed, you hitch up your britches and move on. ;) Given a choice, I'd stay where there's a community built around land-sharing and equality. If that's not possible, bartering will work. The hard part is defending oneself from psychopaths who just want to shoot you and take what you have.


The oldest upholders of the System tend to go for weapons and painkillers, by the way. (Guns, ammo, and morphine is what my Dad called it.)

Me? I'd rather do whats in me to do and get on with things. ;D

 

[Mike]

Whatever possessions you have, take energy to protect. Whatever attachment to possessions you have takes from your awareness, IMHO.

Hi Gonzo, Have you considered that your greatest possession is your certainty that mankind will be reduced to a few traumatized survivors tommorrow. Certainty narrows awareness. Most who own gold consider it insurance in case the world is not totally destroyed tomorrow.

go2, that is what I was thinking while reading this exchange. During the period 2004 to 2007 I was expecting total collapse, comets, etc and rejected that the crash or change would be a slow grind of change mixed with constant lies. Today I'm skeptical of near total collapse, but am again starting to prepare based on the crazy weather, economy turning over, and continuous threat of war. I wish I had enough money to buy a place outside the city and not have debt, but I can't. So I'll use gold and silver as insurance until I can buy a place.

 

[Guardian]

There will be a time when the illusion and its supports fail, but until then, cash still has value.

So how long will you choose to support the illusion?