Gregory James - Faux "Master"?

Oxajil

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GregorJ said:
I'm willing to bet that you likely do not even know anyone who has engaged in this practice of meditation and deep energetic Work for several hours each day for 15 years, as I have – achieving within it spans of time and space which can only be defined as hyperdimensional and utterly vast in scope and quality, and accessing modes of perception and awareness of beings which we may call "alien" or "angel", etc.

I don't get why anyone would spend so much time into something in order to see some aliens, all the while all kinds of things are going on that are way more important. I also don't get how any of the above could help someone grow and become a more responsible human being, other than a man perhaps thinking he may be a magician. And no I don't know what you have experienced, but when I read ''accessing modes of perception and awareness of beings'', I'm thinking; what for? What's the use? Just a few of my thoughts...
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
GregoryJ said:
Your right, Anart. This is very funny.

I'll do my best to learn, especially from you. I promise. (not sarcasm)

Thank you.
Gregory, I don't think that you've really understood one word said to you here. Not a word. If you are sincere about learning, then please read the cognitive science threads and the books referenced in them - in their entirety - and if you have questions, ask. That's the only way for you to get from where you are now to a place where you would be able to learn from the discussions on this forum.

I don't say that to be mean or harsh - I say it because your thinking right now, after years of doing what you've been doing:

g said:
has engaged in this practice of meditation and deep energetic Work for several hours each day for 15 years, as I have

is so compromised that it's almost impossible to communicate with you. Your practices have resulted in your false personality crystallizing on a wrong foundation, as G would say, so it is going to take super efforts for you to overcome that. This is assuming that you want to, which I don't think is evident at this point. As it is now, you have a lot of work to do if you are sincere. Or, you can go back to your dream and keep spending several hours each day in practices that deepen it.

I realize that this too will rub you the wrong way, but the truth of it is evidenced in every word you've written and I would be remiss to not point it out, if there is a core in you that yearns for Reality.
 

Foxx

The Living Force
GregoryJ said:
Denial. Defense mechanism. You really aren't seeing reality as it is. ;)

You see, that's my point here: not only can I say the same darn thing to you, but how am I supposed to think differently about it – given the context and the limitations of the lack of face-to-face? I could just ignore all your feedback, which is what you are doing, but according to you, that is incorrect and oversimplifying the objective. AND btw, I assure you I'm laughing my butt off at this whole thread and am thoroughly amused. I'm taking it seriously as well, but believe me, good humor is abound.

So go ahead, explain it to me. You know you want to. Or am I too deluded to see your point? *humor*

I completely agree with Anart--you really are embarrassing yourself and frankly being quite rude in a very childish fashion. It's embarrassing because you're dreaming that you see things as they are and that you understand things that you clearly don't, which is perfectly evident in this post, especially with you laughing about the fact that you know so little, which I imagine sounds something like "Hahaha, oh Anart is just projecting and doesn't really know me and I've been on this path for 15 years so I'm so super smarty-smart and am the perfect spitting image of a 'master'--so perfectly befitting the title that I don't even think of myself as one! They just don't know me and can't tell through this medium." Anart's not projecting--you're wrong, it's obvious, you don't know yourself at all, and you're completely dreaming that you're awake.

From my perspective, it looks like you're so identified with the idea of you being a "master" and so hypnotized by it that you've hypnotized yourself into believing that you're not at all identified with you being a "master"--that it's "just a title" and "really doesn't mean anything to you"--because you're such a master that you're completely humble. However your posts clearly indicate that you're full of self-importance and are, actually, quite rude and childish when told how you actually are as opposed to how you dream you are and how you hypnotize others (not here, but the people you interact with on a day-to-day basis) into believing you to be.

No one is asking you to believe these things because belief really doesn't have a place on this forum--what you're being told is how it is, so you can either accept the fact that you lie to yourself every moment of every day and it's obvious to many people here, or continue dreaming that you know better than Anart, Spiral Out, Laura, and anyone else who gives you feedback that you don't want to hear--when, in fact, you don't know better.

What this means is that you have a very deep-seated program that you're very, very identified with and it completely blinds you to the truth--so much so that you laugh about it when presented with the truth. Or, what's really more accurate to say, "it" laughs about it when presented with the truth--laughing is happening to you because "it" has you hypnotized--and in reality, you're not doing a thing. You're not laughing, you're not understanding (or even not understanding), you're certainly not Doing--nothing, programs are just running you. That's how it is--understand this and it won't be funny at all; it will be terrifying.

GregoryJ said:
Your right, Anart. This is very funny.

I'll do my best to learn, especially from you. I promise. (not sarcasm)

Thank you.

And do you really think that this isn't sarcastic? I hope you're not that deluded.
 

Laura

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[quote author=GregoryJ] I'm willing to bet that you likely do not even know anyone who has engaged in this practice of meditation and deep energetic Work for several hours each day for 15 years, as I have – achieving within it spans of time and space which can only be defined as hyperdimensional and utterly vast in scope and quality, and accessing modes of perception and awareness of beings which we may call "alien" or "angel", etc.
[/quote]

Been there, done that, didn't do much for me except facilitate out of body experiences and a capacity to endure more suffering. I finally figured out that we suffer until we learn how not to suffer. Meditation taken to such extremes is a drug, pure and simple.
 

Joe

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GregoryJ said:
others have just been impertinent, at times – and I fail to see how it is relevant to helping me know myself (except that it is a valuable exercise for me to stand up to it and/or accept it and not defend against it – which I have been TOLD is invalid). [...]

Actually, it's very relevant Gregory. What's really useful, if you look closely, is that you felt the need to defend yourself, that is to say, you had a negative emotional reaction to something someone said. Basically, you weren't able to stop for a second, get a hold of yourself, and NOT react in a way that you probably would like to have reacted. That alone says that, in a general sense, you're not in control of yourself. Then again, join the club!

Most people live their lives buffering themselves against any negative emotions, and when they are provoked, they shove them under the rug or just let them run wild. In both cases, there is no 'self observation'. You've probably heard about the Gurdjieffian idea of 'self observation'. Negative emotions provide the best opportunity to 'self observe' because they present themselves quite often and tend to have that very disturbing effect on us. They 'throw us for a loop', and give us a very rare chance to see what is going on inside of us, to see that we are not really in control of ourselves. They tend to make a mockery of the false image we have of ourselves, which is probably why they are so disturbing.

Self observation isn't about sitting down and looking inside when we are in a state of calm, it's about trying to catch a glimpse of the 'reaction machine' that is inside of us that dictates much more of our thoughts, words and deeds than we even know, or care to admit. And we can only catch a glimpse of that machine when it reacts. That's basically the first step to self-knowledge - striving to know ourselves, not as we imagine ourselves to be, but as we really are, warts and all. It ain't pretty, at least not at first.
 

Joe

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Foxx said:
GregoryJ said:
Your right, Anart. This is very funny.

I'll do my best to learn, especially from you. I promise. (not sarcasm)

Thank you.

And do you really think that this isn't sarcastic? I hope you're not that deluded.

I don't think there is any reason, Foxx, to assume that Gregory was not being sincere here.
 

GregoryJ

Padawan Learner
I see only one way to know if you are right, Anart. So I will take it on faith and do as you suggest. But indeed I am very surprised to hear your criticism as I have been told for some years by a great variety of people that I am such an affective communicator and purveyor of insight, and that I've helped many people come to a better understanding of life and find some purpose within it – which is of course, always up to them. But I guess that's just because the world is so inert? (rhetorical, at this point) Also, my teachers – whom I naturally hold in high regard – have come to see good fruit in my efforts and support my Work as a teacher. If others see us better than we see ourselves, until now I have not much to go on but praise for my thoughts and words. "Coincidentally" this positive feedback corresponds in frequency and intensity to my Work, chronologically speaking (of course that's not why I do the Work, just saying). What I'm hearing from you is really a first for me, so you'll understand if I am doubtful of it, and per what I have already stated, reiteration from others here doesn't necessarily bolster your feedback. But I will, as I have said, read what has been recommended and keep an eye out for opportunities to ask questions.

Oxajil said:
I don't get why anyone would spend so much time into something in order to see some aliens, all the while all kinds of things are going on that are way more important. I also don't get how any of the above could help someone grow and become a more responsible human being, other than a man perhaps thinking he may be a magician. And no I don't know what you have experienced, but when I read ''accessing modes of perception and awareness of beings'', I'm thinking; what for? What's the use? Just a few of my thoughts...

I understand why you'd ask that question, Oxajil. It is a good question to ask, but not the point of the practice at all. The experiences I am addressing are only "by-products" of the process – steps which indeed validate the function of the process but are not themselves the aim. The purpose of the practice is to achieve a connection to and integration with the All, experientially, energetically, with the Knowledge of the ultimate, at the level of the "seat of the seat of the Soul" – as Rumi defined it, or the Great Gate per Lao Tzu, the Kingdom through the Narrow Gate per Jesus. I'm not going to explain that here, as that's not why I'm here, but I hope I've answered your question: "what for?"

Perceval said:
Foxx said:
GregoryJ said:
Your right, Anart. This is very funny.

I'll do my best to learn, especially from you. I promise. (not sarcasm)

Thank you.

And do you really think that this isn't sarcastic? I hope you're not that deluded.

I don't think there is any reason, Foxx, to assume that Gregory was not being sincere here.

Thank you, Joe. That is correct.
 

Laura

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Gregory, I'm really hoping that you are going to "get it" but I know that this depends on one of two things: 1) that some inner part of you recognizes truth and responds; 2) that you have the knowledge and understanding of the principles that we make available here by quoting research or pointing to books, discussing them, experimenting, and reporting results. One or the other will get you through, both is better, of course, but without number 2, 1 is kind of iffy because a preference for truth in the un-crystallized being is only a bias, nothing more. And if the programs have been crystallized on a wrong foundation, they can drown out that very small and weak voice.

Having said that, I would like to point out that there were many things I understood about you while editing your last article which, as it was originally written, was not something we would publish. Since I could sense sincerity in you and a good heart, I stopped work on my book to take an entire day and a half to try to help you with that. And I'm sure you realize that if I had not done that, you would have had a LOT of egg on your face from JMJ. Because, in point of fact, as I wrote in the tracked changes notes along with the edits, you did exactly what you accused him of doing less than two pages following your criticism.

We also discussed your problems with sentence structure and being able to express yourself clearly and simply. This is something I've studied for a long time and I can generally tell when a person has "glitches" in their inner world by the way they write, the mistakes they make in both syntax and grammar. Spelling errors that are repeated are revealing also.

Anyway, my suggestion to you right now would be to stop thinking altogether, accept just for the sake of an experiment that you cannot think and that perhaps you are crystallized on a wrong foundation, and go over to the cognitive science threads and start reading. Don't just read the posts, get and read the books. And read as if your life depends on it because it may. Go to the recommended books list on the forum here and begin reading those books too.

The truth is, if you really want to master yourself, you have to start at the beginning because as you are, you are not a master of anything, least of all your own mind, and any other master who would have accorded you that title as you are isn't one either. Another truth is that meditation doesn't and cannot make a master. As I said above, it is a drug, a corruption of the idea of knowing the self. It is a turning away from life and, as the Cs said, LIFE is religion.

Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the world will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the 'past.' People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the 'Future.' -- Cassiopaeans, 09-28-02

It's your choice: sleep or awaken to real life.
 

GregoryJ

Padawan Learner
Thanks Joe and Laura for your last posts here. They are the most helpful thing I have read so far.

You'll understand, Laura, if it is very difficult for me to accept everything you last said. I feel I have very good reason to trust you in general, so again, I'm going to take it on faith and follow your lead. I will reassert my gratitude for your guidance and editing on my recent essay. I learned allot working on that project with you, and I didn't realize you spent so much time on it. I am moved and humbled.

I'm going to set this thread down now, but I'll reread it in some time.
 

Laura

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GregoryJ said:
I see only one way to know if you are right, Anart. So I will take it on faith and do as you suggest. But indeed I am very surprised to hear your criticism as I have been told for some years by a great variety of people that I am such an affective communicator and purveyor of insight, and that I've helped many people come to a better understanding of life and find some purpose within it – which is of course, always up to them.

You've helped them to get their comfort back with psychological drug fixes.

And it's "effective" though you may actually mean "affective" which denotes emotions.

Perhaps you might want to list these people in your mind, a sort of recapitulation, and what their problems were, how you helped them, where they are now and how much weight you would give to their compliments. If you are in junior high school and you get compliments from grade schoolers about how much you help them, it's only natural. But how much can you help someone at your own level? And how many compliments are you likely to get from those in university for helping them???


GregoryJ said:
But I guess that's just because the world is so inert? (rhetorical, at this point)

See above. Inert is not really the word. Asleep and dreaming they are awake, most of them. YOU have an inkling of what you are trying to tell people, but I can almost guarantee that they do NOT understand it the way you mean it. And if they did really understand, if you spoke plainly enough that they could, they would run screaming and tell you what a meany you are for bursting their bubbles. Well, assuming you are telling them the truth, that is.

GregoryJ said:
Also, my teachers – whom I naturally hold in high regard – have come to see good fruit in my efforts and support my Work as a teacher.

Do you pay them money or work for them?

GregoryJ said:
If others see us better than we see ourselves, until now I have not much to go on but praise for my thoughts and words.

Because you are walking with sleepers. But every now and again, one of your eyes flickers open and you KNOW that there's something really MORE. Or perhaps I've fallen asleep and am dreaming that!
 

Miss.K

Dagobah Resident
Laura said:
Getting feedback about oneself isn't really an issue of trust. In fact, as already noted, it's better if it is NOT someone you know well enough to have an emotional tie.

Having said that, IF a group is engaged in working on becoming objective, it CAN work even if there are emotional connections between them but only if there are enough involved to have a 360 view. For example, say I want a good feedback about something I think or feel from my five children. So I sit down with them and say "lemme have it!" Each one of them will have a particular angle about the issue that will not be the same as the angle of the other. Of course, after I finish gathering their assessment, I will probably get assessments from several other people and have been known to ask people who are not in any way involved in a situation about a "hypothetical case" where I describe myself as ruthlessly as possible, though only as someone else, in order to get unbiased feedback.

I will add here, also, if you have read some of the discussions about it here on the forum, you will know that the lies that people like Bridges tell CAN anchor in your mind and I swear, there have been times when, if I had not known for an absolute fact that it was lies, it would have convinced me that I was living a double life unknown to myself, like multiple personality or something!

I actually meant it more as a general question, and could have used another example, as well as I could have asked in a thread on it's own.
(I explained in last post in this thread that it was something that was on my mind, and I asked here, because the topic of others seeing one better than one self came up) And no I haven't read much about the Vincent guy. Bad example. Sorry

I agree both that people can see things that one self cannot, but also that emotions or lack of information can cloud judgement, so it can be difficult at times to figure out what is what.
Anarts reply answered it beautifully with
anart said:
I think it comes down to results - question everything - use YOUR mind - learn about yourself - KNOW yourself. The trick is that to KNOW oneself, one must have help to learn how to See and, again, we're back to developing the discernment to be able to tell what is true and what is 'untrue' and where to get that help. I think that's why "the Way is so narrow".
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
GregoryJ said:
Laura said:
GregoryJ said:
Also, my teachers – whom I naturally hold in high regard – have come to see good fruit in my efforts and support my Work as a teacher.

Do you pay them money or work for them?

No.

You didn't pay your teachers in any way for the instruction you received?
 

Foxx

The Living Force
Perceval said:
I don't think there is any reason, Foxx, to assume that Gregory was not being sincere here.

Yes, you're right, that was an assumption on my part--I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.
 

ana

The Living Force
anart said:
GregoryJ said:
Laura said:
GregoryJ said:
Also, my teachers – whom I naturally hold in high regard – have come to see good fruit in my efforts and support my Work as a teacher.

Do you pay them money or work for them?

No.

You didn't pay your teachers in any way for the instruction you received?

And in case He did... what's wrong? Aren't we supposed to pay back for what others give us? Is not this encouraged here?
 
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