Gregory James - Faux "Master"?

[Esote]

...
Well, in the 4th way teaching, the first step is to viscerally realize that we are just reaction machines, total slaves of our conditioning, beliefs and blindness. That's quite a painful step, it's even more painful when you considered yourself as well advanced on the path to spirituality.

Thanks a lot for sharing such a post Belibaste!
Knowledge should come along with Humility, in my understanding.
And being able to laugh at oneself, yet at the same time taking the steps toward action on the self and being of service to others...

Thank you, Belibaste, your post was very educating. I've noticed similar tendencies among some of the Reiki practitioners and teachers. It's like Reiki will solve ALL of your problems, some even end up doing Reiki to their car instead of changing the spark plugs.

I'm pretty sure the hands of a mechanic are much more advanced in such a case ;)

 

[Foxx]

Thank you, Belibaste, your post was very educating. I've noticed similar tendencies among some of the Reiki practitioners and teachers. It's like Reiki will solve ALL of your problems, some even end up doing Reiki to their car instead of changing the spark plugs.

 

[Breton]

Thank you, Belibaste, your post was very educating. I've noticed similar tendencies among some of the Reiki practitioners and teachers. It's like Reiki will solve ALL of your problems, some even end up doing Reiki to their car instead of changing the spark plugs.

HA HA!

I also recall "Frank" not helping with C's transcripts, maybe because he felt he was too "spiritual" for such things (among many other things too) and yet such a simple and effective work was extremely beneficial to the work of Laura which has then served so many people.

 

[Bernhard]

I just got this message from Gregory:

I wonder if you realize the Sogyal Rinpoche quote on your wall (Sabrina is quoting that you shared) achieved that understanding via an "ever-deluding drug" called Vipassana (meditation). ;) Just busting you balls, brother... I don't require a reply.

Nothing but love for ya. :)

To which I replied:

Sure, however it hasn't anything to do with Sabrina's chosen quote, hence you are pulling a straw man argument. Sogyal Rinpoche has also been known to be an alcoholic, sex addict and other there are other issues. I have some "friends" here in LA who went to the 10 day Vipassana camp and all of them without exception are New Agers who lack critical thinking. I'm not shooting the messenger because lies are mixed with truth, but you should read this article: _http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/behind-the-thangkas-sogyal-rimpoche-the-imbalance-of-power-and-abuse-of-spiritual-authority/

from the article:

People who have now left Sogyal’s entourage speak about a “sense of pollution” — how the succession of females in and out of the guru’s bedroom made them feel ill at ease. No-one at this time identified Sogyal’s behaviour as a personality disorder, but more recently health professionals have stated that he is a sex addict – an obsession as powerful as drugs, alcohol and gambling. There was also a dawning awareness within Sogyal’s community that he was not up to scratch as a Buddhist teacher. A very reticent Englishman was an early Buddhist scholar who visited the Himalayan regions in the 1950s, searching for texts on an arcane aspect of Tibetan teachings known as Dzogchen. Sogyal proclaims himself as a Dzogchen master – but his followers noticed he played “carrot and donkey” with them – holding out the promise of genuine instructions, but never actually delivering. The reticent Englishman confirmed their suspicions:

“Apart from some stuff he picked up from his uncle Jamyang Khyentse Chokyi Lodro, he knows very little and what he does know is not Dzogchen.” Ngakpa Chogyam also became aware of gaps in Sogyal’s knowledge: “He asked me a lot of questions about Dzogchen”, he says, “and I was surprised by the way he’d enquire – almost, I thought at the time, as if he didn’t know the answers. I ended up talking a lot when we were alone together – but it occurred to me later that he never asked questions like this when anyone else was around.” Later in his career, when Sogyal was an established lama, he was sitting with several Rinpoches listening to teachings by the Dalai Lama. One of the Rinpoches wrote a note in Tibetan and passed it round the group. According to a Tibetan Buddhist scholar who heard about this from one of the lamas involved “It was obvious to all of them that Sogyal could not read it.” In 1979 the Dzogchen master Choegyal Namkhai Norbu taught for the first time in London and members of Sogyal’s group who attended realised they were experiencing the genuine article. There was a mass exodus from Orgyen Choling, but within weeks the defectors were replaced by a new intake. The devotees who remained faithful include Patrick Gaffney and Dominique Side.

Also, you still haven't replied on the Cass forum, so I'm not sure what your intention is to send me this message, but it shows that you are still defending yourself and have a hard time taking in the mirror presented to you. No balls have been broken and if you'd be sincere about "nothing but love for ya", you wouldn't have written in this ironic/sarcastic tone, which proves again the mirror presented to you. Stating that you don't "require a response" for something you write to me shows also your insincerity and self-importance that has been pointed out to you. Really, Gregory, it displays how you over-estimate yourself once again.
Also interesting that you wrote me instead of Sabrina who posted this. So, what's your point really in doing this? What are you trying to achieve? Trying to convince me that I and others are "wrong" about you? Why don't you post this on the forum if you think it proves that "you are right" all along?

And who says he "achieved that understanding via an "ever-deluding drug" called Vipassana (meditation)."? Because he says so? Again, read the article. Many people can utter/repeat "spiritual truths" but their lives are a true reflection if they actually live by it or understand. Sabrina's quote doesn't invalidate what was being said, nor does it validate everything Sogyal Rinpoche is about. It was in context of Gabor Mate's lecture who also lacks understanding of psychopathology, however it doesn't invalidate everything he's saying. Basic critical thinking, really.

I think this shows his insincerity despite his posts on here claiming that he is. Really more prove that he's lying to himself and his idea of being a "master". A very childish reaction actually, imo.

 

[anart]

I just got this message from Gregory:



I think this shows his insincerity despite his posts on here claiming that he is. Really more prove that he's lying to himself and his idea of being a "master". A very childish reaction actually, imo.

Yes, Gregory is - from all current indications - very, very sound asleep - lost in a dream that he is a magician. That ego of his (self-importance) is really astounding. The whole "nothing but love for ya" nonsense speaks to quite a bit of underlying anger as well - I mean - if that's "love" then who needs snarky sarcasm and arrogant passive-aggressive nonsense?

Added: I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

 

[Bernhard]

That ego of his (self-importance) is really astounding.

Truly and he can't see it one bit. When I first read his message, I was thinking, "Really Gregory, this is how a so-called "master" responds?

I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

Clearly he is triggered. Instead of sincerely taking in the mirror presented here and responding on the forum accordingly, he's trying to find support/acknowledgement for the lies he's telling himself in a very childish manner actually. Far removed from being any form of "master". His words and actions speak for themselves.

My guess is also that instead of sincerely contemplating the mirrors, he went back to his "old life", feeding off the attention and praise he's getting from his "students", using that as a buffer which keeps him from seeing himself clearer. This message also shows his superiority complex and how he lies to himself about "humility".

It's no surprise really though, since his livelihood depends on the image he portrays, so accepting the mirrors would open up a can of worms too much too handle. Of course he thinks this is all silly and we "don't get it", because of all the "success" he's having with his students, as he mentioned before.

 

[anart]

That ego of his (self-importance) is really astounding.

Truly and he can't see it one bit. When I first read his message, I was thinking, "Really Gregory, this is how a so-called "master" responds?

I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

Clearly he is triggered. Instead of sincerely taking in the mirror presented here and responding on the forum accordingly, he's trying to find support/acknowledgement for the lies he's telling himself in a very childish manner actually. Far removed from being any form of "master". His words and actions speak for themselves.

My guess is also that instead of sincerely contemplating the mirrors, he went back to his "old life", feeding off the attention and praise he's getting from his "students", using that as a buffer which keeps him from seeing himself clearer. This message also shows his superiority complex and how he lies to himself about "humility".

It's no surprise really though, since his livelihood depends on the image he portrays, so accepting the mirrors would open up a can of worms too much too handle. Of course he thinks this is all silly and we "don't get it", because of all the "success" he's having with his students, as he mentioned before.

It's really reminiscent of 'Darkness Over Tibet' because he's a great example of someone who thinks he is spending his life serving god when he's actually been serving the devil the entire time.

Unless a person is deeply dissatisfied with their sleep - to their bones dissatisfied with it - they will never work to wake up - and Gregory loves his sleep -why would he not? He gets to be a 'master' and feed off of those too ignorant to know better - and they are happy in their sleep with their "master" in his dream. It's really nothing extraordinary at all - just another facet of the horror of the situation that plays out millions of times every day on this planet.

Perhaps a little distance from him might make sense? I find that it's usually quite draining to interact with people who fight so strongly for all that keeps them enslaved in a dream where they are the star and everyone else is there to serve them in one way or another.

 

[anart]

Of course he thinks this is all silly and we "don't get it", because of all the "success" he's having with his students, as he mentioned before.

One other note on this - for some people, it really is 'silly' and we really 'don't get it' because they are fundamentally incapable of understanding more than where they currently are. For those people, we may as well be screaming Greek from the rooftops for all the sense we make. We aren't here for those people and we know enough to know that no amount of words or mirrors or time or patience can give them what they do not and cannot have. That's okay, it's their life and this Work is not for everyone.

 

[Bernhard]

Perhaps a little distance from him might make sense? I find that it's usually quite draining to interact with people who fight so strongly for all that keeps them enslaved in a dream where they are the star and everyone else is there to serve them in one way or another.

I haven't interacted with him in a while. This message came out of the blue. Has has sent me message a couple of times when this thread was started, looking for me to support him in the mirrors he has received. Early on, even before this thread started , I noticed the emotional feeding going on in his messages, his self-importance and lack of humility, hence I suggested to him to engage on here, because I'm not willing to talk to him about it via PM. I'm not interested in wasting my time with someone who has not the sincerity to be all open and upfront with it and avoids the questions and mirrors given to him, especially someone who claims to be a "master" and engaged in esoteric work. All the flattery I've received from him over time also doesn't change that. I'm certainly not drained by having interacted with him, nor do I push anything on him. I just felt to respond because of the idiocy of his message. Clearly he's not open to what I had to say since he "doesn't expect a reply" anyway, nor do I care if he responds or not. It's all just "for the record" to be posted here and prove of the mirrors given to him. As Laura said earlier, it's up to him to "answer the call". For now, his predator is in charge and he doesn't know it.

 

[Denis]

Interesting and, imho, very helpful thread for one to understand and be more aware of many traps of self-importance. I sincerely hope Gregory will eventually chime in again to discuss the issues that have been raised here. I see many helpful replies here, and I am aware, of course, that there are and will be people who don't see it that way.

My guess is also that instead of sincerely contemplating the mirrors, he went back to his "old life", feeding off the attention and praise he's getting from his "students", using that as a buffer which keeps him from seeing himself clearer. This message also shows his superiority complex and how he lies to himself about "humility".

Yep, whether we are aware of it or not, those who have "the eyes to see" will always recognize if there is humility and sincerity in one's text (including mine!) or if one is just feeding the Predator within by wanting to be in the center of attention and to be proven right.
One of my FB friends once said that "the superiority complex is simply an inferiority complex on steroids". :)

 

[Bernhard]

I got a reply from Gregory:

Yea, he sounds a bit confused. I never heard of the guy; I was only stating what I was based on his title and credentials.

Anyway, I was just making a joke between friends, Bernhard. That's why I sent it to you, not Sabrina (who I don't know and who wouldn't get the joke) and why I didn't post it to the forum (because that would be silly and you know it). And actually, I was moved that you'd take the time to write those long posts in the Cass forum. Which is why I said I have nothing but love for ya – that and I was letting you know I don't take the grilling personally. Maybe I'm "supposed" to, but I don't. And that's not self-importance, I just don't agree that everything said actually applies (a point I also discussed in several places on the forum).

What seems apparent to me, which I addressed a few times in the forum, is that what is written cannot accurately reflect the intended tone. For instance, I was joking, and reaching out to you as a friend with a bit of humor over something we gently disagree about – which seems to bother you more than me from where I sit – but you think I'm trying to prove something. Certainly I am saying something – which is that I don't agree that meditation is a drug which brings one to delusion – if practiced properly under qualified guidance. But I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything – I know that isn't possible in this case (experiential validation is needed).

I haven't replied to the forum only because I had come to realize that nothing I was going to say could possibly register with the group – not because of what I was saying or how – because the group has it's own ideas about things and that seems to be the final word in that group. It's fair enough; it's your group. I made my points, and I had said that I am going to leave the conversation to read the material offered and to contemplate what was being said. Why several more posts followed that statement, I don't know. It seemed I was being expected to come to some major realization then and there, and the pressure was on to make that happen.

Furthermore, I simply wish to read more read more about the Fourth Way before I get too involved, as it seems understanding the semantics and terminology would help me understand the group, and the group me. This only makes sense from a respectful perspective.

Like I said several times, there were good points being made, and I do value the feedback. But there were also assumptions being made that are invalid, and I wasn't getting anywhere addressing this.

Also, as I said, I am too busy to continue with the pace of the forum at this time, and if I am to continue respectfully, I ought not engage it without the time to manage the pace – to keep up. This I don't have now. Responding to one person at my leisure is much easier to manage where time is concerned.

Anyway, Bernhard, are we still friends or aren't we? I'm not going to suddenly revise my thinking anymore than you are just for the sake of pleasing someone, nor can such a revision occur simply because it is proposed. You have your realizations and validations and I have mine. What I have realized perhaps more clearly than most anything else is that people don't generally agree 100% across the board unless its superficial, approval seeking. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that's just feeding.

You might be able to learn from me as well, but that doesn't seem to interest you. The difference between you and me seems not to be our difference in approach to the Work, but rather to our approach to each other. For instance, since I've known you you've been pointing out everything you see as wrong about me or what I put forth – maybe "everything" isn't the right word (but you know what I mean). I have seen many flaws and hang-ups in your thinking and manner, Bernhard, but I haven't addressed them, or I address them very subtly - but you seem to miss it when I do. The reason for this is only because it isn't my place to correct you – you have your path and your people who facilitate this, and I know you'll do just fine, just like I will. We are neither of us perfect, brother. Also, there are times when I have explained myself quite clearly and with the same respect I prefer to be shown (Golden Rule – not self-importance) and yet you have rejected my explanations – though admitting that its more or less semantics/terminology in the way of our disagreements.

All I'm saying is, we don't have to agree on everything to be friends, but if we can't at least agree on THIS, we pretty much doomed to alienate each other.

I'm happy to continue our conversation, if you like, but I won't engage the forum for now – for the reasons I have mentioned, not because I can't "handle the mirror".

With respect.

So all of a sudden it's a "joke" and he "never heard of that guy", yet he used him as an example for the benefits of meditation (as if we don't acknowledge the benefits of meditation, considering that the EE program includes meditation). He says he doesn't agree with how this forum works but still wants to learn more about the 4th way and the reading material suggested to him. I don't know if he just says that or is actually reading it. He keeps asking me if we're "friends", although we just chatted on FB and from the get-go I saw his "dreaming to be a magician" attitude. I'd like to get some feedback. Did I misinterpret his last message and didn't get "the joke"? Was it really "just a joke"? Is he really sincere or just trying to "save face"?

Added:
Thinking about my own questions, I think that's what it comes down to:

I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

 

[ggen]

I got a reply from Gregory:
So all of a sudden it's a "joke" and he "never heard of that guy", yet he used him as an example for the benefits of meditation (as if we don't acknowledge the benefits of meditation, considering that the EE program includes meditation). He says he doesn't agree with how this forum works but still wants to learn more about the 4Th way and the reading material suggested to him. I don't know if he just says that or is actually reading it. He keeps asking me if we're "friends", although we just chatted on FB and from the get-go I saw his "dreaming to be a magician" attitude. Can someone explain me what is going on and what he wants from me? Did I misinterpret his last message and didn't get "the joke"? Was it really "just a joke"? Is he really sincere or just trying to "save face"?

I've been following this thread as I'm also friends with Gregory on Facebook. I didn't feel it my place to jump in while he was being shown a mirro,r as it was for his benefit. To answer your last few questions, IMO, I think, especially subconsciously, he DID think his original message to you about that guy was a joke. He's definitely 'feeling' the heat from the forum and part of him believes you to 'be on his side' because of your more 'intimate' Facebook interactions. Underneath the whole 'joke' context is, as Anart pointed out, passive aggressive behavior and definite anger issues from being challenged. I believe he is 'trying to save face', especially with you, and in his response (his self narrative), 'it's all just a joke'.
Fwiw, we friended on Facebook in the early summer, and when I saw that he joined the forum, I sent him 1 message via Fbook. The message said something along the lines of, "Glad to see you've joined the forum, it's been an amazing opportunity for me to learn and relearn, and I look forward to sharing." His response was a simple, "I'm not on there much. I mainly use it just for research." At the time I wondered about the comment. Having followed this thread and watched his regular postings on Facebook, I understand better now what 'he was really saying' in his message back to me. Since that experience, and having read over the threads regarding 'personal messaging' and 'doing the Work', I haven't planned on messaging anyone else. I DO hope you can come to some kind of understanding from all of this Spiral Out.

Mod edit: fixed quotes

 

[ggen]

I missed your 'edit' before I posted. Anart spelled it out. You realized it. Now, it's what you do with what you know now. There is the energy draining, feeding, etc. He's VERY stuck in his way of thinking. You have showed him much patience and tried to help show him certain aspects of his own fallacies. He might agree Spiral Out, but as you know, he's not 'understanding'. I believe you might have a tough decision to make. Just don't meditate too much on it.

 

[obyvatel]

So all of a sudden it's a "joke" and he "never heard of that guy", yet he used him as an example for the benefits of meditation (as if we don't acknowledge the benefits of meditation, considering that the EE program includes meditation). He says he doesn't agree with how this forum works but still wants to learn more about the 4th way and the reading material suggested to him. I don't know if he just says that or is actually reading it. He keeps asking me if we're "friends", although we just chatted on FB and from the get-go I saw his "dreaming to be a magician" attitude. I'd like to get some feedback. Did I misinterpret his last message and didn't get "the joke"? Was it really "just a joke"? Is he really sincere or just trying to "save face"?

Added:
Thinking about my own questions, I think that's what it comes down to:

I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

Wondering about his motivations and whether you have misread his intentions essentially amount to energy-draining for you in this context - osit. If I were you, I would not engage with him on esoteric topics on FB or elsewhere - such discussions can take place in the forum if he really wishes to discuss.

 

[Alada]

So all of a sudden it's a "joke" and he "never heard of that guy". [...] Did I misinterpret his last message and didn't get "the joke"? Was it really "just a joke"? Is he really sincere or just trying to "save face"?

It is easy to tell the difference, here is a joke: What do you get if you fill your hot water tank with ground pork? > A meatier shower. :)

From here the message looked less like a joke and more like an opening gambit, bait – which you took. If it were just a joke the first line of the message would suffice, but this is was just the opener for all that followed. The aim was to engage.

Added:
Thinking about my own questions, I think that's what it comes down to:

I think he is just DEEPLY bothered by the fact that you do not buy into his "master" illusion - nor do we - it's 'stuck in his craw' as they say because you are not abiding by his version of reality. What's interesting is that he doesn't just go his own way, but he sticks around, poking you with a stick whenever he gets a chance. It's really very telling.

Indeed. There is great investment in getting a few digs in, the need to ‘win’. As mentioned earlier it does seem to be about feeding / energy draining too – all very Service to Self.

Here is another joke: Why couldn't Dracula's wife get to sleep? > Because of his coffin.