Grover Furr: Stalin was demonized

[gdpetti]

But the great question is: The Cassiopaeans have said there is only One Government and our current politic and governments are only puppets. They have said this Secret Government has technology much more advanced (several thousand years) to ours.

So, my question is: What happens here? This Secret Government does not control Russia? if not, why? why they don't use this technology to take Putin out of power? is it because Russia has this technology too but they keep this in secret??

Reminds me of this session: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25694.msg305778.html#msg305778

Q: We are what we are. Nature is nature. Progression is progression. And if people would just relax and be who and what they are in honesty, and do what is according to their nature without violating the Free Will of others, that this is a more pure form of being than doing things out of any feeling of expectation, or desire; to just BE, not want... just BE?

A: Yes, but STS does not do that.

Q: (A) From which I draw conclusions: if there STS around us, we cannot just...

A: You are all STS. If you were not, you would not be where you are.

Q: (A) There are those who are happy in the STS mode; and there are those who are trying to get out of the STS mode...

A: STO candidate.

Q: (A) These STO candidates cannot just simply BE, even theoretically, because then, STS would eat them.

A: No.

Q: Why not?

A: STS does not eat according to protocol.

Q: What does that mean?

A: What do you suppose?

Q: I have no idea!

A: STS "eats" whatever it wants to, if it is able.

Q: That's what we said. If you are STO in an STS world, you are basically defenseless and they eat you.

A: No.

Q: Why? What makes STO unavailable or 'inedible?'

A: Frequency resonance not in sync.

 

[gdpetti]

Hmmm, took to long to edit it seems.

Oh well... essentially i was going to add that Stalin seems to have played this part in an earlier time that Putin is playing today... and though the zeitgeist seems softer, the same play seems at hand... in need of a strong hidden hand awaiting activation based on the 'revolution' that unfolds around him. Not seen as a leader, just a follower, a worker by the leaders of this gang, staying low and fullfilling the basic, no frills functionary role of management... until the script unfolds and be it Yeltsin stepping down, or Lenin's Will, he slowly emerges to take the reins of command...step by step, playing one oligarchic interest off another while dealing with the usual Western led false flag ops intent on derailing his plans to re-establish the Motherland. You still have to deal with these NWO types with their other minions, be it the global financial traps or the geopolitical ones that keep getting pushed in your face to force a fight... a badly timed misstep... sort of like in a post on sott.net today about how the Israelis played Nasar in Egypt... 'game, set and match'. It's almost the same script everytime, though the culture or zeitgeist does change, with body counts more 'unseemly' than in the past, even in the militaries, unless they are the opposition and its people of course. The same false flag ops and associated schenanigans are in play... the same archetypes. The same misquoting of history from Adam and Eve and that infamous apple in Eden to all the doublespeak and plain psychobabble we hear today as the ponerological noose tightens.

;) All of which reminds me of that famously misquoted line in Casablanca: Play It gain Sam

Bogart's supposed line from Casablanca. This is well-known as one of the most widely misquoted lines from films. The actual line in the film is 'Play it, Sam'. Something approaching 'Play it again, Sam' is first said in the film by Ilsa Lund (Ingrid Bergman) in an exchange with the piano player 'Sam' (Dooley Wilson):

Ilsa: Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.
Sam: I don't know what you mean, Miss Ilsa.
Ilsa: Play it, Sam. Play "As Time Goes By."
Sam: Oh, I can't remember it, Miss Ilsa. I'm a little rusty on it.
Ilsa: I'll hum it for you. Da-dy-da-dy-da-dum, da-dy-da-dee-da-dum...
Ilsa: Sing it, Sam.

The line is usually associated with Humphrey Bogart and later in the film his character Rick Blaine has a similar exchange, although his line is simply 'Play it':

Rick: You know what I want to hear.
Sam: No, I don't.
Rick: You played it for her, you can play it for me!
Sam: Well, I don't think I can remember...
Rick: If she can stand it, I can! Play it!

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/284700.html

Seems whether we like it or not, we will hear it again.

 

[GregP507]

To minimize the existence of documents authorizing the execution of thousands of Soviet citizens, each bearing Stalin's personal signature,

Please re-read the thread. You seem to have missed some important details.

is like ignoring the fact that Russia's current president has acquired billions in personal wealth by stealing it from his own country.

Comparing the existence of signed documents (about which there MAY be some question, again, see this thread) with unsubstantiated rumors from people who don't like Putin and have a vested interest in slandering him is like, not even wrong.

I have met survivors of Stalin's purges in the Ukraine, and to discount their stories is to dishonor their suffering and their immense struggles to survive.

No one is discounting their stories. We haven't even heard them.

Russian friends have told me that they estimate that over 30 million souls perished to appease his paranoia.

30 million MAY have died (figures like that are hard to know with certainty), but that this was a result of Stalin's paranoia is exactly the question being analyzed here. If you can't separate your emotions from your thinking, it will be very hard to come to objective conclusions. That's all the participants of this thread are doing. We may very well end up coming to a conclusion more in line with the official version. Again, that is the question, and it can only be determined with a clear head. Your post above doesn't really contribute much to that end - paramoralistic arguments aren't really appropriate.

Apparently, you feel you have the power to render judgment on other people's opinions, and simply discount them as "unsupported" based on your own criteria, whatever that may be.

Good luck gaining consensus from others by using such tactics.

 

[mkrnhr]

Apparently, you feel you have the power to render judgment on other people's opinions, and simply discount them as "unsupported" based on your own criteria, whatever that may be.

Good luck gaining consensus from others by using such tactics.

That's what you don't seem to understand GregP507. Opinions do not matter, they are irrelevant. If you have data, verifiable data, that's good, constructive and welcome. Without data, it's just noise. Read well what Approaching Infinity wrote, not your personal interpretation of what he wrote, which appears clearly here to be colored by your emotional thinking.

 

[H-KQGE]

It's not surprising the response above. It seems that people just refuse to read the statement of principles or the hundreds of posts reiterating them.

 

[videinfra]

It is at least funny if not moronic how non russian revise our own history.

 

[1984]

It is at least funny if not moronic how non russian revise our own history.

Welcome to the Forum, videinfra. It's customary here to introduce yourself in the Newbie section. Nothing personal required, just a bit about how you found us, if you've read any of Laura's books, SOTT, etc.

 

[videinfra]

Welcome to the Forum, videinfra. It's customary here to introduce yourself in the Newbie section. Nothing personal required, just a bit about how you found us, if you've read any of Laura's books, SOTT, etc.
[/quote]

Thnx. Hi there.

Did not know that i have to introduce myself. But anyways, i found about this forum through the Petrov's lectures.

And i do not know who ''Laura'' is.

 

[Andrian]

Found this article on SputnikNews, so basically in the article is described very well how the West tries at present to compare Russia to the WW2 Soviet Union, Putin to Stalin and Stalin being considered worse than Hitler, off course this is nothing surprising for us, but still it was interesting to read it and I'm glad that thanks to such alt news sites as SOTT, Sputnik, RT etc. the light of truth keeps shining. I will add just a small quote from the article:

By attacking and stigmatizing the Soviet past the US and its NATO allies are targeting today's Russia and its leadership that is unwilling to bow before the West; anyway, the USSR never did anything remotely comparable to what major Western countries did in the last century — the US and NATO have been by far the most aggressive and murderous power in the world since WW2, US expert in Soviet history Professor Grover Carr Furr of Montclair State University told Sputnik.
Illogical as it may seem, despite the fact that the USSR collapsed decades ago the Western propaganda machine continues to vilify Soviet Russia; first British-American historian Robert Conquest and later American scholar Timothy Snyder have contributed a lot to the anti-Soviet and anti-Russian propaganda campaign.

"Why [there is] so much anti-Stalin and anti-communism? Anti-communism because communism is the antithesis to capitalism. And anti-Stalin because the Stalin period in the USSR was the period when the world Communist movement did so much that was good. Also, anti-Stalinism and anticommunism because of the huge atrocities of capitalism and imperialism in the 20th century, which continue today," Professor Furr emphasized.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

The Saker recently put up an interesting piece on Stalin.

http://thesaker.is/the-controversy-about-stalin-a-basket-of-preliminary-considerations/

If I could sum it up in a few sentences: There's a current trend among a bunch of Russians and others to de-demonize Stalin. Some conclusions to be drawn: Stalin was responsible for a lot of deaths, but probably not nearly as many as popularized (i.e. 66 million); many victims of the infamous purges were actually those responsible for previous atrocities; Stalin was more complex than the simplistic view of him as an evil dictator, but at the same time, he was pragmatic to the point that he could and did sacrifice millions.

From the end of the article:

I feel confident saying that Stalin was most definitely no worse than his predecessors and that in many ways, the nature and policies of the Soviet regime did change for the better under his rule. Still, I remain convinced that he was a ruthless leader, who led the country by a careful mix of terror and inspiration and who did not hesitate to sacrifice millions of people when needed to achieve a goal he had set. I am also pretty certain that it was during Stalin’s rule that the first Russian patriots made it back into the structure of power and that this slow and gradual re-penetration continued under Khrushchev, Brezhnev and the rest of the Soviet leaders until 1991. And if the 1990s were an absolute horror, it is to those Soviet-grown patriots (after God, of course!) that modern Russia owe her amazing rebirth. Sure, as we all know, good things can grow in bad places, but I have to believe that at least something in the Soviet society was right to have produced such remarkable leaders as the ones in the Kremlin today.
...
So while I remain extremely critical of Stalin and of the whole Soviet period, I think that the current de-demonization of Stalin is a very good thing and I very much hope that it will give historians the intellectual and ideological freedom they need to do their work. For the time being, I rather step aside and wait to read more of their books.

 

[thorbiorn]

Apparently a teacher of the son of Stalin wrote and received and answer, see Письмо Сталина учителю своего сына for a the text and a picture of the letter. For tanslations, I used translate google.

"... To teacher T. Martyshin. I received your letter about the arts of Vasily Stalin. Thank you for the letter. I answer very late due to work overload. I apologize. Vasily is a spoiled young man of average ability, savage (type of Scythian!), Not always true, he likes to blackmail weak “leaders", often sassy, with a weak or - or rather, unorganized will. He was spoiled by all kinds of "kums" and "gossips" that continually emphasize that he is "the son of Stalin." I am glad that I have found in your face at least one self-respecting teacher which comes with Vasily, as with everyone, and demands from the impudent obedience to the general regime at school. Basil is spoiled by a director, like you mentioned, rags who have no place in school, and if the insolent Vasiliy did not even have time to destroy himself, it’s because there are some teachers in our country who don’t let the naughty barge descend. My advice is to demand stricterness from Basil and not be afraid of false, blackmailing threats of capriciousness about “suicide”. You will have my support in this. Unfortunately, I myself have no opportunity to mess with Vasily. But I promise from time to time to take him by the collar. Hello! I. STALIN 8.VI.38. "

I was somewhat surprised and am sure many teachers would wish they had the same kind of support from the parents of some of the students they have.

 

[Revolucionar]

What has always amazed me about him, and about the Russian government in general, is that they publicly make heroes out of some of the most high-profile and brutal traitors, liars, and executioners of their own Russian people. Putin has repeatedly quoted Solzhenitsyn and unveiled monuments to him. They put up monuments and plaques to the Finnish Nazi collaborator Mannerheim, who helped Hitler exterminate the inhabitants of the Siege of Leningrad. And it is in this city that they honor his memory and "merits". This is simply unthinkable.

They made heroes of white terrorists and butchers, such as Kolchak and others, who exterminated huge numbers of civilians in Russia during the civil war in the most brutal ways.
There is a "wall of mourning" for "victims of Communist repression" and similar memorials in Moscow.

And every year on May 9, Russia's greatest and most important holiday, they retouch Red Square and Lenin's mausoleum, hiding the red banners of victory and Soviet symbols behind the decorations. Is this Ukraine or Russia? When Ukraine does it, Russia condemns it. When Russia does the same, it's OK.
And at Red Square parades, troops and equipment march under the tricolor, which begs the question: was it Russia or the Soviet Union that won the Great Patriotic War? Have you appropriated this victory for yourselves? And what about all the other peoples of the USSR, most of whom were Ukrainians, Belarusians, Kazakhs? Even Mongolia contributed to the defeat of that brown plague.

By the way, Lenin's monuments in Russia began to be torn down even before Ukraine had its coup d'état in 2013. And that was okay, too. But this started in Ukraine, and it immediately became unacceptable. Curious.

You guys claim repeatedly that you won't let anyone rewrite your history, yet you do it perfectly yourself. And above all through your own movies, which make you want to erase your memory and leave this planet. Films made with the direct participation and money of the Ministry of Culture, the Cinema Fund, and the Russian Historical Society.

I have only one idea to explain it all: for capitalism, all this Soviet past is the same as holy water for devils. After the collapse of the Soviet Union there is no state ideology in Russia, its place has been taken by the church, reaching the point of complete absurdity and idiocy. This is despite the fact that the Russian Federation is a secular state, according to the constitution.
And in this way, the capitalist elite shows their nature. That they hate socialism and erase the memory of it and all that was there. After all, in their opinion, the "bloody communists" destroyed their "beautiful" Russian empire, where they all saw themselves as noblemen and denied themselves nothing. And socialism and communism disrupted their self-centered "idyll" and prevented them from making money by robbing their own country. That is why they all hate Stalin and the USSR in general. That is why their heroes are the executioners of their own people and the greatest liars and traitors.
I can find no other explanation. This theme has always occupied my mind.

Communism was one of the darkest moments of history. Stalin was one sick puppy. Stalin didn't win the war, it was the regular people.

 

[Antony]

Communism was one of the darkest moments of history. Stalin was one sick puppy. Stalin didn't win the war, it was the regular people.

That’s a very shallow and western propaganda based approach...recommend you dig a little of historical literature/facts. There is a saying - A herd of rams led by a lion will always triumph over a herd of lions led by a ram.
No offense of course to soviet people. But the concept.

 

[Antony]

Would like to add. A person/real leader (who was poisoned), recognized by the top western leaders (still and later), who saved basically the world from the trial run of 4 d sts scenario, deserves more deeper understanding.

 

[Revolucionar]

That’s a very shallow and western propaganda based approach...recommend you dig a little of historical literature/facts. There is a saying - A herd of rams led by a lion will always triumph over a herd of lions led by a ram.
No offense of course to soviet people. But the concept.

I'm always open to changing my mind. From everything I know about Stalin, I'm pretty sure he was a complete psychopath and I think that the historical records that support that are pretty common knowledge.
I would be curious to hear what counter arguments you have for those records.