Grover Furr: Stalin was demonized

I also did not mean to offend you personally or that you would think that I am criticizing you.
It's one thing when you talk about pedophilia, it's another thing when you talk about a 14 year old girl. Listen, we are now again sliding into the abyss in this discussion, but I want to tell you that it is one thing when a maniac rapes and kills small children, and another when in Russia the church allowed girls to be married from 12–13 years old, and boys from 14– 15 years. In Russia, even now there are cases when 14-year-old girls get pregnant, how do we feel about this? Well, you know, if it was mutual, then thank God, and if it was rape, then the criminal prosecution of the rapist.
What else can be said and done here?
I sincerely do not understand those people who care about the past instead of thinking about the future.
If some 37 year old guy was lusting after your 14 year old daughter, would you be fine with that? Even if she seemed to be ok with it, it's not fine. The guy would get a beating from me.
It's one thing when you talk about pedophilia, it's another thing when you talk about a 14 year old girl.
I'm disgusted. You said it yourself here, 14 years old is a girl, not a woman, hence pedophilia, unless the male is also just a boy and not yet a man.
 
If some 37 year old guy was lusting after your 14 year old daughter, would you be fine with that? Even if she seemed to be ok with it, it's not fine. The guy would get a beating from me.

I'm disgusted. You said it yourself here, 14 years old is a girl, not a woman, hence pedophilia, unless the male is also just a boy and not yet a man.
And I hate to read the comments of the offended boy who boldly condemned pedophilia on the forum in a thread that is devoted to a completely different problem.
And I'm waiting for how you will deal with this in Russia, and I don't understand whether you will deal with this problem in Russia or all over the world, or are there no such problems in your country? Smells like populism.

We boldly condemned Stalin, because a book was written by order of the West, which says that he is a pedophile and we firmly believed in this and now we are angry and discussing this here because we have no other problems. Are you out of your mind?
 
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@Revolucionar @f1esk Guys, I guess you haven't seen Niall's request above? It doesn't have only to do with Stalin, but also with other unrelated topics. Please respect this forum and its members. This thread already suffered enough from non-related chatter. You are welcome to continue discussing in other relevant threads. Please search the forum before creating a new thread, though. Chances are, we already have one where you can share your thoughts. It's a non-Chinese final warning. ;-)
 
ENOUGH with discussing Stalin here, please. If you have anything further to say on this, take it to one of the other countless forum threads on Stalin, Communism, Ponerology, etc.

World-changing events are taking place right now in and around the Donbass. In this thread, let's stick to gathering facts and developments about the USA vs Russia proxy war in Ukraine, and what appears to be Putin's 'grand plan' to do away with hegemony.
"A: Be aware that you are currently under attack by forces that wish to silence you and end your exertions on behalf of your group in specific and the planet in general. These forces are getting desperate and will attempt to use any inroad possible. Be awake and alert at all times. Any disputes or disagreements can be easily blown out of proportion to your destruction. And then, when the negative energy is withdrawn, the devastation left will be amplified by the knowledge that it was all a deception. [Planchette swirls around and around for about 45 seconds] You have been warned. Do not take this lightly. Communicate and listen. It will take all of you together to navigate these dangers!!! Goodbye."

How quickly this was forgotten. 🤔
 
I'd like to add to the discussion about Stalin and Soviet Union that we need to remember there's a lot of evidence that the whole Bolshevik Revolution was founded by Wall Street bankers and was part of a plan of those in power. The owners of factories in US and bankers were later cooperating during cold war with soviets. It turns out that it's not like Soviet Union was the real enemy of the States... Maybe it was all just an act to create an enemy for people to live in fear? To accelerate the technology development? And Stalin as well as other leaders were not Russians and they didn't serve the Russian nation.

Those books I think describe this issue quite well:

I wonder if anyone read them and what's your opinion.
I read the first book, which is an expansion of Sutton's work (with more data, and which corrects some of the things he missed or got wrong). Spence's conclusions aren't exactly how you framed them. Wall Street types and bankers (may of them ideological socialists and/or anti-tsarists) funded, but did not "found" the Bolshevik revolution (maybe that was just a typo). And it wasn't exactly a "plan of those in power" - more a plan of some powerful people. Some supported the Bolsheviks, and many others did not. A lot of "spy vs spy" stuff was going on at the time. And yeah, arguably, the Bolsheviks wouldn't have been successful without the foreign support they received.

Also check out the chapter "Conjuring Lenin" in Conjuring Hitler by Guido Preparata. Much of the support for the Bolsheviks was geopolitical in nature. Those doing so wanted to destabilize the Russian Empire. They didn't predict that it might create the USSR as it came to be - that would require more foresight than they possessed.
Look at yourself in the mirror after all those statements that you make about Stalin and ask yourself why.
We need to build the future, not destroy ourselves with the past.
We can do both. I.e., not necessarily destroy ourselves with the past, but look at it dispassionately while also building a future worth living.
None of you present here have the competence to discuss historical figures, such as Stalin.
A cynic would say none of us (including you) has the competence to discuss anything. But this is a research forum, and we can try our best to tease things out - which includes looking at the work of people who arguably do have the competence. But we can also question their competence. Again, research forum.
And if you are discussing Stalin and his motives, then include here the historical figures of the same time, for example, Hitler.
We have, and we do. Speaking of which, I don't think Hitler was a clinical psychopath either. But Goering definitely was.
I have long had this thought, but it is incorrect to generalize about the whole Soviet period. Yes certainly the USSR was not an enemy of the USA and only played this role, but it began only with the murder of Stalin by British secret services, confirmed by Cs, Khrushchev Brezhnev and others (thanks to their sabotage management any libertarian can now pompously say that the planned economy does not work in the USSR, although modern transnational corporations are essentially the same, and the USSR is a state-corporation).
Yes, the Soviet system went through many transformations.
Stalin may be an unempathic charateropath, but he is a sovereign charateropath smart and powerful enough not to submit to the PTB otherwise all the western bankers would not have had to nurture the Nazi project in Germany to overthrow their allegedly own Soviet project.
I think this is too black and white. Stalin did not submit to the foreign PTB. He was the domestic PTB.
There are a lot of books, memoirs of top generals, politicians and even ordinary people who happened to encounter him in life. You would be surprised how attentive, caring, rightful, empathetic etc. he was.
I'll refer back to my previous post about borderline parents. Yes, they can be very attentive, caring, empathetic, etc. But they can also be the exact opposite. Not psychopaths, but not psychologically healthy either. Stalin wasn't all evil. He was more complex than that. But he was no Putin.
The system had of course drawbacks. (Gulag narrative-please research declassified official documents -not traitor Solzenitsin).
Yep, like this one, based on those documents:
He gave such a leap forward to the country even after his death (his funeral - was something of a record. Millions people came and all crying-or may be they were doing it at gunpoint??
I'm sure we can all think of similar examples of people genuinely supported by masses of people who didn't necessarily live up to who the people thought they were.
My grandmother 90 years old now-their generation still highly admire him and ‘demand such a ruler now’. According to social research- in 2000 - 50% of the whole population admired him and strangely enough in 2021 - 80%. May be you have a rational explanation for that phenomenon?
Yep: people in general aren't rational, especially about their national history. It's normal, and there's not much anyone can do about it.
And I hate to read the comments of the offended boy who boldly condemned pedophilia on the forum in a thread that is devoted to a completely different problem.
It's ok, it's on a new thread now. No offense required!
We boldly condemned Stalin, because a book was written by order of the West, which says that he is a pedophile and we firmly believed in this and now we are angry and discussing this here because we have no other problems. Are you out of your mind?
You're talking about Stalin's relationship with the 13-year-old still? "By orders of the West" is a bit hyperbolic, IMO. Here's the story behind the story: Stalin and his lover aged 13 | Mail Online
 
I sincerely do not understand those people who care about the past instead of thinking about the future.

Because when someone forgets his history (past) he is condemned to repeat it.

If you have been through the forum enough, and all the material, not only from Laura's work but also from the whole network, you should already be aware that past, present and future are interchangeable.

And if you don't know where you come from you will hardly know where you are going.
 
Потому что, когда кто-то забывает свою историю (прошлое), он обречен на ее повторение.

Если вы достаточно просмотрели форум, и весь материал не только из творчества Лауры, но и из всей сети, вы должны уже знать, что прошлое, настоящее и будущее взаимозаменяемы.

И если вы не знаете, откуда вы пришли, вы вряд ли узнаете, куда идете.
You know, I do not want to participate in this thread of discussion of dubious issues from books that were written by you know who, why and why.

But I want to leave my opinion since I came here.

Now, when you talk about the mistakes of the past, I ask you to give specific examples in history when these rules were followed or not followed. Show where and when in history what you are talking about happened.

You can't do it because it's populism.

There is a saying in Russia - whoever forgets the past, that eye is out.
But there is a continuation - and who will remember - to that 2.

This means that you need to draw conclusions from history and accept them when planning your future, and not rush about the past like an idiot and show everyone - look what happened in the past.

I do not know if I was able to convey the meaning with the help of an auto-translator. And I certainly did not want to create a conflict, only my point of view about the past.

Time is unidirectional in 3D, you will never go back in time, never again.

But now the future has come when the West again shows aggression on our planet and your rule does not work.

Good luck.
 
What happened here at night?
Who brought Stalin here and why?
What destructive forces have infected the branch?
Look at yourself in the mirror after all those statements that you make about Stalin and ask yourself why.
We need to build the future, not destroy ourselves with the past.
None of you present here have the competence to discuss historical figures, such as Stalin.
And if you are discussing Stalin and his motives, then include here the historical figures of the same time, for example, Hitler.
Which of them realized the goals and what resources they used, including human resources.
To accuse Stalin that he was a pedophile at that historical moment - what is that? What kind of books do you read and why?
Madness.
Is there any information somewhere about why this message appeared in this thread? I feel awkward because I don't want to debate here.
 
Is there any information somewhere about why this message appeared in this thread? I feel awkward because I don't want to debate here.
Thank you, now the readers of this thread have understood where the incomprehensible messages fell on them.
No, I'm glad that messages were moved, but why are Russians called careless or administrators are Russians?
🤣
 
And I hate to read the comments of the offended boy who boldly condemned pedophilia on the forum in a thread that is devoted to a completely different problem.
And I'm waiting for how you will deal with this in Russia, and I don't understand whether you will deal with this problem in Russia or all over the world, or are there no such problems in your country? Smells like populism.

We boldly condemned Stalin, because a book was written by order of the West, which says that he is a pedophile and we firmly believed in this and now we are angry and discussing this here because we have no other problems. Are you out of your mind?
This now just sounds like dissembling.
You were saying that a willing 14 year old girl is fair game for a 37 year old man.
Now, all of a sudden, it's a global problem that can't be fixed.
So which is it? Adults having relationships with teens is not pedophilia, or it's a huge issue that needs fixing?

Also, your tone is very condescending. Offended boy? I was certainly not offended, merely disgusted by your assertion.
You on the other hand seem to be offended by all kinds of things lately.
Maybe taking a breather is a good idea.
Things are getting hairy and we all need to think before we speak instead of getting emotional.
 
@Revolucionar @f1esk Guys, I guess you haven't seen Niall's request above? It doesn't have only to do with Stalin, but also with other unrelated topics. Please respect this forum and its members. This thread already suffered enough from non-related chatter. You are welcome to continue discussing in other relevant threads. Please search the forum before creating a new thread, though. Chances are, we already have one where you can share your thoughts. It's a non-Chinese final warning. ;-)
My apologies. Niall's message came in as I was writing the post so I didn't see it. I wasn't going to discuss Stalin further anyway, but felt like I needed to address what, in my view, was a clear attempt at normalizing pedophilia. Good idea to move this to another thread.
 
I don't see what's to "debate' about. Communism is an evil system that was based on anti-human over-intellectualizing theories just like its cousins fascism and nazism or any other -isms. To succeed in those systems you must be equally evil or you destroy it from within. Some people thrive within a totalitarian regime, others not. The problem, as always, is that those who thrive within totalitarianism impose it on those who do not do that well.
The West today is repeating the same patterns seen in those regimes: centralized power, control of the narrative, corrupt intelligentsia, authoritarianism, hive mind, propaganda, silly slogans (save the nation, save the proletariat, save, the race, save the planet..), etc. The West, or whoever really in charge there, know history, and they are repeating it with an upgraded 21st century twist, technology, and knowledge of the psychology of the masses to mask their intentions, which stem from the same evil as before.
 
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