Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)?

[Miss.K]

Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage

Pleasing, really?
When I see/hear observe what you call pleasing, I think "masturbation", and thank you to Laura for the sex center explication, which I think (might be mistaken) help me pin point what that observation means, I don't find it pleasing, more boring...(though the one masturbating might have fun it is really boring to watch) It might be harmless I don't know (apart from ...how is it..the only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing" aspect..or something like that) but even though I really hate pain, and that way might bring one in a permanent pleasurable state, I don't find the thought of me reaching that state pleasing at all. It seems lonely and fake if I picture myself there...

 

[Esote]

Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage

Pleasing, really?
When I see/hear observe what you call pleasing, I think "masturbation", and thank you to Laura for the sex center explication, which I think (might be mistaken) help me pin point what that observation means, I don't find it pleasing, more boring...(though the one masturbating might have fun it is really boring to watch) It might be harmless I don't know (apart from ...how is it..the only thing needed for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing" aspect..or something like that) but even though I really hate pain, and that way might bring one in a permanent pleasurable state, I don't find the thought of me reaching that state pleasing at all. It seems lonely and fake if I picture myself there...

I didn't write pleasing but "pleasing", which seems to be one of the main drives in Osho's teachings, and so a reason why it is a red flag. Some kind of a bad joke Miss.K, for it didn't please you...

 

[Richs]

Oh ho! Osho! The originator of a whole stream of New Age sewage and salad-shooter metaphysics.

...

Allow me to suggest that you are in the and if you want to answer further questions, you can create your own website and do it there.

Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage, adding eventually some kind of sour sauce to Osho's salad-shooters

Yes, and as many here have experienced for themselves, doing the Work is often 'disagreeable', and sometimes even painful. As far as I know nobody who was 'legitimate' ever claimed it was otherwise and even 'easy'. They simply said it was possible if one gave the required consistent effort and was a member of a 'school' - which this Forum is.

However, there is also a bright side to doing the work. There is a sort of 'joy' which would be difficult or even impossible to describe to anyone who has not experienced it for themselves which is a result of seeing for oneself the progress one has made and some obstacles which have been overcome.

 

[axj]

Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage

I think that indulging in "pleasure" should not be confused with authentic joy and love that are a by-product of doing the Work and connecting with the Higher Self. Removing the blocks can be painful, but the resulting connection with the authentic self and the Higher Self is enjoyable on a deep level - it gives peace, purpose, self-love, and so on. That type of enjoyment is a part of the Work, though of course it should not become the primary reason for doing the Work.

 

[Miss.K]

However, there is also a bright side to doing the work. There is a sort of 'joy' which would be difficult or even impossible to describe to anyone who has not experienced it for themselves which is a result of seeing for oneself the progress one has made and some obstacles which have been overcome.

I think that indulging in "pleasure" should not be confused with authentic joy and love that are a by-product of doing the Work and connecting with the Higher Self. Removing the blocks can be painful, but the resulting connection with the authentic self and the Higher Self is enjoyable on a deep level - it gives peace, purpose, self-love, and so on. That type of enjoyment is a part of the Work, though of course it should not become the primary reason for doing the Work.

Agreed Richard, and axj,
yes, I know that joy and yes it can be hard to explain to someone who hasn't tried it, but I think that joy goes hand in hand with pain of compassion, and the frustration of trying to figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world, and that everything can be known (so things like politics can be objectively understood and solved).

The joy alone is very passive, and a little pathetic at best and Lizzie like at worst

I didn't write pleasing but "pleasing", which seems to be one of the main drives in Osho's teachings, and so a reason why it is a red flag. Some kind of a bad joke Miss.K, for it didn't please you...

Sorry, I misunderstood :)

 

[Menna]

You are really hung up on that stuff aren't you.. I said I have no interest in being a regular forum poster because I don't, and it would have been my final post if people had no interest and no questions was asked. So, do you have a question? A man 5 have no attachment to gained knowledge. There is either knowingness or not. All wisdom is channeled from the Higher mind/intelligent infinity and man 5 has a strong and permanent connection to that.

Anyone who spreads a believe system is a teacher (why deny that?). And this forum centered around Laura is doing that. There is truth mixed with fear-based beliefs and paranoia and victim consciousness. I am adding what I have to offer in this mix, but I will not become a regular "swimmer" in it.

I was "hung up" on the why behind the decisions already made by you in your initial post and why those decisions were made. You answered them. Now i am not "hung up" anymore. However if you have something to offer no post should be final you can take a dip in the pool without being a regular swimmer is all I'm saying.

Laura doesn't offer a belief system through the forum she offers ways to objectivity which is the opposite of belief. There's not one stream of information or source look at all the books, authors, people posting here there's much information for one to research and with their being see where it fits. Not everyone here believes everything the other does however what they do want us knowledge, network, growth... Believe system or not and the forum can provide all of that even more if you interact

 

[Sol Logos]

Oh ho! Osho! The originator of a whole stream of New Age sewage and salad-shooter metaphysics.

...

Allow me to suggest that you are in the and if you want to answer further questions, you can create your own website and do it there.

Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage, adding eventually some kind of sour sauce to Osho's salad-shooters

I know someone who was heavily involved with Osho, knew him personally too and came out of it eventually realising there was a hell of a lot of skeletons in the closet she hasn't dealt with. Her opinion was still one of valuing his teachings, distinct from his character, but also that his teachings gloss over our personal struggles, which she had to go back into for many years after.

Some of her anecdotes about her experiences are huge red flags, which I can't reconcile with any claim that Osho was at a state of development he said he was. For example it was encouraged to have orgies as a way to free oneself from attachment of false beliefs around love. The problem was that a high rate of STDs circulated around members, so Osho apparently suggested they wear plastic coverings during these "exercises" to minimise that.

My view is the whole peak experience and silent transmission is likely a ruse. Possible perhaps, but most cases, its a feeding frenzy of entities pumping energy into people to make them believe they are enlightened or "on the right track". Once people are hooked, they can be easily led to participate in any "spiritual" exercise that please the unscrupulous or they can be permanently over-cloaked and used as an instrument to disseminate teachings that might be good, might be bad. Even if good they are still filtered through the vessel's broken and likley disintegtating state, as might have been the case with Osho.

 

[Richs]

Agreed Richard, and axj,
yes, I know that joy and yes it can be hard to explain to someone who hasn't tried it, but I think that joy goes hand in hand with pain of compassion,

Well yes, we do need to see and understand everything we can in an objective way. This includes the 'bad' as well as the 'good'. Most of us here do feel the pain of the many who are suffering and have compassion for all of them. We also need to acquire and maintain 'balance', and not dwell singularly on either the good or the bad, but to see and remain aware of both at the same time.

and the frustration of trying to figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world,

I'm not sure why you think it is our job to "figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world". If the reality we live in was supposed to be different than it currently is it most likely would be. The way it IS reflects our current lesson-plan and the conditions we need to work through. Also, the C's have recently told us that the only way left to unite humanity is through "suffering", and this appears to be what is going on these days.

It seems to me that you have a different idea of how things should progress than the Cosmos has in mind for us. Unfortunately, we students don't get to set the curriculum.

The joy alone is very passive, and a little pathetic at best and Lizzie like at worst

I have no idea why you would claim such a thing.

 

[David]

I'm just wondering whether irrational thoughts/ talking to yourself in your head EVER go away? or do they just become a backing track in your mind that are much easier to ignore and KNOW they're false and they're trying to move you from your aim? I suppose it links into the different numbers of man, i.e. man 1,2,3,4,5 - what about after a certain crystallization, or a transformation, do these thoughts get replaced with new ones? do they get replaced with more objective ones? the more you transform and grow, do the thoughts become less self-destroying, more objective?

Maybe consider sculpting as a hobby, it’s useful for focusing attention, on an object outside of oneself, and one could apply some semblance of self-observation... I took up sculpting recently, or rather trying to sculpt, its easy just to sculpt a head if one is not applying any rules, just expressing something with ones hands, perhaps an expression of ones emotions, without expectation of what it should look like, what ever shape or form it takes, it is as it is... One can just observe while one is sculpting, maybe one could experiment with that, in not identifying with thoughts, while one works away. (One need nothing except something like Playdo) maybe you will find it useful.

Though after a while, I tried to up the stakes a bit, by not trying to sculpt that which just happens, but that which is more difficult, where one needs to be more conscious of what one is doing, which is funny as I don’t know if one should know how to sculpt, in theory first... fun and frustration, the negative interject or dialogue is in full swing, though I’m aligned with those thoughts, as indeed my efforts are far from correct, but the negative thought that one believes to be absolute, is not real, as the sculpture it can be changed, it can be made better, through practice, practice, practice, practice, even failure is useful, and after a time there is more of the self in the activity, less distracting thoughts, and what ever you have is that which is your own, from ones own effort, ones own work.

There’s an obvious difference, in the sculpture that just happens, compared to the sculpture that is the result of a more conscious undertaking... though in the beginning the sculpture that just happens, look better than that of the first few attempts of conscious work, where one starts from nothing.

Though it would be nice to do nothing, and get enlightened, without much work at all, and then do that which just excites, which might just be aligned with that which always just happens, as it dose in the world... wars, arguments and what not.

FWIW my two cents

edit spellings, forget grammar

 

[SlavaOn]

Hello Lilyalic.

I'm just wondering whether irrational thoughts/ talking to yourself in your head EVER go away? or do they just become a backing track in your mind that are much easier to ignore and KNOW they're false and they're trying to move you from your aim?

This is from my personal experience.

Sometime around fall 2008, I was driving along on a two lane road in a rather intense traffic. It was raining lightly. When I drove on an overpass my car has stalled in the left lane. It is not a new car and I knew about that deficiency, but didn't expect it to happen in such a worst possible place and time. I should have been panicking. It is at that very moment I realized that I keep calm, have no worries of the situation and my mind doesn't have the internal dialogue. I never realized until that moment that I do not have the thoughts on the back of my mind. I couldn't say when they stopped. It is only in the stressful situation like this that I was able to detect the absence of any uncontrolled thoughts in my head... So, I put the car in a neutral gear and pushed it to the right shoulder diagonally across the right lane traffic (drivers saw what I was intending to do and stopped to let me do my maneuver.

About that time, the poetry (some of them I posted on this forum) happened. I didn't even like poetry before. Besides, I am not even a native English speaker, "technar" (techy) by education and work in IT. Yet, without much effort, I was writing from 2 to 3 poems a week. Mostly while driving or when exercising in a gym. That "spell" lasted for a couple of years, while I produced over 150 poems.

I am wondering, if these events are linked? The uncontrolled thought stream, most likely, is produced by a sub-conscious mind. Then, if it is suppressed somehow, it could be looking for another outlet. I did willed the first poem, though. That is, I consciously started rhyming a poem about Chevy Chase bank robbery while I was waiting for my wife to do a grocery shopping in a car parked near our local branch of Chevy Chase bank. That was on Thanksgiving Day in 2008... The majority of my poems has something to do with me: events in the past, relatives, observations, etcetera. And then, at some point, the well went dry, currently I am not able to write any worthwhile poems My mind has not been burdened by any internal dialogues ever since.

Lilyalic, write some poetry! ;D

SlavaOn

 

[seeks]

Hi all,

Thanks for replying Highfive, your answers were accurate and much appreciated.

Much to think about, to Do and to Be.

I Hope everyone has a good day :)

 

[Miss.K]

Agreed Richard, and axj,
yes, I know that joy and yes it can be hard to explain to someone who hasn't tried it, but I think that joy goes hand in hand with pain of compassion,

Well yes, we do need to see and understand everything we can in an objective way. This includes the 'bad' as well as the 'good'. Most of us here do feel the pain of the many who are suffering and have compassion for all of them. We also need to acquire and maintain 'balance', and not dwell singularly on either the good or the bad, but to see and remain aware of both at the same time.

and the frustration of trying to figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world,

I'm not sure why you think it is our job to "figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world". If the reality we live in was supposed to be different than it currently is it most likely would be. The way it IS reflects our current lesson-plan and the conditions we need to work through. Also, the C's have recently told us that the only way left to unite humanity is through "suffering", and this appears to be what is going on these days.

It seems to me that you have a different idea of how things should progress than the Cosmos has in mind for us. Unfortunately, we students don't get to set the curriculum.

The joy alone is very passive, and a little pathetic at best and Lizzie like at worst

I have no idea why you would claim such a thing.

Oh I don't think it's my job to "figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world" (but I think I should try nevertheless, as in trying one is forced to see, and understand the world)
I'm trying to express (perhaps poorly) what I see as the difference of people who are doing the work, and making a page like Sott that takes a stand on right and wrong,
and people who work on them selves, but only on themselves, and might feel the joy of the oneness with cosmos, but chant along with Hilary that Putin is Hitler, and generally seem to not care to much about understanding what goes on in the world, as they know that the universe is perfect as it is.

I don't think that passive suffering and not trying to figure out solutions is what the cosmos has in mind for me. I don't think trying to figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world is the same as having a different idea of how things should progress than the Cosmos has in mind for us.
To me it has always seemed as the kind of enlightened people, who typically have some eastern yogi for teacher, might be enlightened, but that the message is "all is perfect so nothing matters" so that the individual don't have to pay attention to left and right (the navel is enough to pay attention to) because all is as it is supposed to be, and one can just sit here and feel great in ones enlightened state while the wold is screaming in pain.
This has made me not so interested in becoming enlightened, though I understood the truth that "the universe is perfect as it is"
When I found Lauras writings, it was the first time I felt I had come across a way to "enlightenment" that was not the passive "all is perfect so nothing matters" way, though it is in agreement that "the universe is perfect as it is"
And I think that it is because the group has been trying to "figure out objective solutions for the suffering of the world" that for example light has been shun on the problem of psychopaths, that I see as essential knowledge, and that I don't see the "all is perfect so nothing matters" ways manage to figure out.
So when I call it pathetic at best and Lizzie like at worst, I mean navel gazing at best, and high level STS self pleasuring at worst, when one becomes enlightened in the "all is perfect so nothing matters" way. (I might be wrong, but it is my impression so far)

Does that help explain what I was trying to get at?

 

[nicklebleu]

And then, at some point, the well went dry, currently I am not able to write any worthwhile poems

Funny you should mention that - the exact same thing happened to me too. This poem writing was a strange thing, like a fever, things were just pouring into my mind. And then one day - poof! Gone. Well, it was connected with a breakup, so I imagine that this stream was connected to the relationship too. Unhealthy relationship, I might add.

On one hand I was happy it was gone, as it kind of felt "off"/ "unhealthy" (I cannot describe it any better), on the other side, I missed the intensity of the feeling.

 

[Laura]

I know someone who was heavily involved with Osho, knew him personally too and came out of it eventually realising there was a hell of a lot of skeletons in the closet she hasn't dealt with. Her opinion was still one of valuing his teachings, distinct from his character, but also that his teachings gloss over our personal struggles, which she had to go back into for many years after.

Some of her anecdotes about her experiences are huge red flags, which I can't reconcile with any claim that Osho was at a state of development he said he was. For example it was encouraged to have orgies as a way to free oneself from attachment of false beliefs around love. The problem was that a high rate of STDs circulated around members, so Osho apparently suggested they wear plastic coverings during these "exercises" to minimise that.

My view is the whole peak experience and silent transmission is likely a ruse. Possible perhaps, but most cases, its a feeding frenzy of entities pumping energy into people to make them believe they are enlightened or "on the right track". Once people are hooked, they can be easily led to participate in any "spiritual" exercise that please the unscrupulous or they can be permanently over-cloaked and used as an instrument to disseminate teachings that might be good, might be bad. Even if good they are still filtered through the vessel's broken and likley disintegtating state, as might have been the case with Osho.

I've received emails from a number of people who recounted personal experiences with this Rajneesh guy - a MOST unsavory character (in the words of Bill & Ted). I've also know a couple of people who bought into it and that was pretty sad. Their lives went kaflooey but they kept up the pretense that all was perfect.

It's gurus like Rajneesh/Osho that give any other groups trying to sincerely work on themselves within the parameters of this world a bad name. Look at his incredible conspicuous consumption of the funds put into his care by followers; look at the crimes committed by him and his followers. We, on the other hand, thanks to precedents set by Rajneesh, were forced to undergo a year-long police investigation AND a fiscal audit. We came through it because we DO care about our members and our responsibility to them and our stewardship of funds to be used for the benefit of all. We work hard every day to multiply the value of everything entrusted to our care. So I don't have any patience or sympathy for someone like Rajneesh.

Ya'll might want to read the recent posts in the "Hostage to the Devil" thread about the subtle ways of evil.

 

[Laura]

Hi all,

Thanks for replying Highfive, your answers were accurate and much appreciated.

Much to think about, to Do and to Be.

I Hope everyone has a good day :)

Blue bell, I think you, too, are in the wrong bar.