Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)?

[riclapaz]

My peak experience built up over the course of a week. I was at a retreat with a man 7 teacher and every day sitting with him I got stronger and stronger kundalini energy moving up my spine and hitting my brain like waves of pleasure (I had read about this before but didn't really believe it could be so vivid and real).

The day of the actual peak experience I was sitting alone in my cabin meditating and feeling very strong kundalini. The center of my brain (3rd eye or pineal gland) started to vibrate intensely, and I could actually move this vibrating ball wherever I wanted up and down the spine. I remember a candle light flicker was kind of annoying me, and immediately an "energy tentacle" (can't find a better way to describe it) moved out from the top of my head and touched the flame. The flame was totally still after that.

This weirdness went on for about 1 hour, and then I sort of came out of it a totally changed being.

I will get back to the rest of the questions/comments soon...

Hello Highfive, I have some doubts, you've read the books of Laura? Gurdjíeff or books, Mouravieff, Ouspensky? He has heard of the STS and STO terms? Laura analysis made in this thread regarding the man 5,6,7?

Regarding kundalini, there is a very clear warning:

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=431&lsel=K

Kundalini

Esoteric teaching on this word varies greatly from source to source.
All sources agree that this is a sort of force or effect that is localized at the base of the spine and can be activated either spontaneously or through deliberate exercises. Kundalini is said to rise from the first chakra, along the spine, possibly all the way to the crown chakra. It is sometimes compared to a serpent that lies coiled at the base of the spine. Awakening this serpent is claimed to bring great powers and benefits.
Gurdjieff's view on the matter differs from most sources. He agrees that such a thing exists but teaches that it is the source of false imaginings, an actual bane of man, the remnant of the ill-famed 'organ kundabuffer' which is discussed extensively in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson. Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.
The kundalini is often compared to a serpent, maybe because of the undulating sensation that can be felt along the spine when doing certain exercises. Mouravieff writes that this is what the serpent of Genesis actually represents.

 

[Esote]

... this will be both my introduction post and my final post.

I am what Mouravieff refer to as man 5 ...

Your final post ?
A man of word would be silent after saying that, I guess.

Why would someone who is man number 5 not want to help out others who want to evolve?

This is why I responded to the OP (not "organic portal" but "original poster" :), and as a I said I will answer questions regarding this on this thread. But I will not limit myself to this forum and I have other "real life" activities to attend to also.

Man 5 with "real life" activities ? So great, welcome to the Club, even though I don't even know which number (or cast, or class, or ?..) I belong to !
Specially when knowing that everything is trans-(in)formation, self inter-pretation and this and that and who knows what ?..
For now, let's see what the 5 has to finally introduce within its own high above limits, regardless of our low below ones (speaking for myself of course) ;)

 

[Menna]

Quote from: Highfive on April 28, 2015, 06:12:04 PM
... this will be both my introduction post and my final post.

I am what Mouravieff refer to as man 5 ...
Your final post ?
A man of word would be silent after saying that, I guess.

He said final post unless there are any other questions about this topic...

Quote from: Menna on April 29, 2015, 11:36:21 PM
Why would someone who is man number 5 not want to help out others who want to evolve?

This is why I responded to the OP (not "organic portal" but "original poster" , and as a I said I will answer questions regarding this on this thread. But I will not limit myself to this forum and I have other "real life" activities to attend to also.

I understand you like everyone else have other things to tend to however what threw me of was "NO INTEREST" and "FINAL POST." A man number 5 would have knowledge that others here don't and just by interacting here other people are asking for knowledge, help to grow. What you said seemed black/white to me. You can always stop by from time to time and give insight nothing has to be final you don't have to limit anything life is fluid and on going.

 

[axj]

My peak experience built up over the course of a week. I was at a retreat with a man 7 teacher and every day sitting with him I got stronger and stronger kundalini energy moving up my spine and hitting my brain like waves of pleasure (I had read about this before but didn't really believe it could be so vivid and real).

The day of the actual peak experience I was sitting alone in my cabin meditating and feeling very strong kundalini. The center of my brain (3rd eye or pineal gland) started to vibrate intensely, and I could actually move this vibrating ball wherever I wanted up and down the spine. I remember a candle light flicker was kind of annoying me, and immediately an "energy tentacle" (can't find a better way to describe it) moved out from the top of my head and touched the flame. The flame was totally still after that.

This weirdness went on for about 1 hour, and then I sort of came out of it a totally changed being.

Hello Highfive,

I have a question for you: Have you been doing the Work as defined by Gurdjieff before and after this peak experience?

 

[sitting]

This is why I responded to the OP (not "organic portal" but "original poster" :), and as a I said I will answer questions regarding this on this thread. But I will not limit myself to this forum and I have other "real life" activities to attend to also.

Hi Highfive,

Forgive my curiosity, but what do you do for a living?

 

[Sol Logos]

The day of the actual peak experience I was sitting alone in my cabin meditating and feeling very strong kundalini. The center of my brain (3rd eye or pineal gland) started to vibrate intensely, and I could actually move this vibrating ball wherever I wanted up and down the spine. I remember a candle light flicker was kind of annoying me, and immediately an "energy tentacle" (can't find a better way to describe it) moved out from the top of my head and touched the flame. The flame was totally still after that.

This weirdness went on for about 1 hour, and then I sort of came out of it a totally changed being.

Why after announcing your state on first introduction to people, it has to be qualified with another claim of telekinesis?

The quality of a man is best seen by one's fruits, is my opinion, not by his / her claims. Wouldn't you agree?

Edit: for clarity

 

[Highfive]

Thanks for answering @Highfive. :)

I will definitely check Buddha at the gas pump more.
Some of this people may be legit :), but some of them are from Osho
_https://batgap.com/category/traditons/osho/

I heard soo many negative comments about him. Just check Wikipedia:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh#Criticism

So there is a possibility, that not everybody is 'legit, but as you mentioned many are.

I also strongly recommend finding a living teacher at level man 6 or 7, and to partake in a retreat with such a teacher. There are more than enough of them at this time no matter where you live in the world. Just check out "Buddha at the gas Pump" on youtube. He interviews new teachers on a regular basis (and many of them are at the level of man 6/7).

Weird thing, is that I don't see people that became enlightenment himself using 4th way system... (0 matches)
_http://www.google.pl/search?q=site:https://batgap.com+%22fourth+way%22+OR+%224th+way%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=T0xBVbuVGsGsswHPkoGYAw

Buddhism dominates (185 matches):
_http://www.google.pl/search?q=site:https://batgap.com+buddhism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=kkpBVf6zD4ebsgHm8oCYBw

But, this may be related to the fact THAT 4th way is REALLY a niche, so less people are practice this -> less amount of enlightened persons.
And Buddhism is pretty much mainstream.


Plus, I will have to think more, since I am living in Poland and I don't see any teachers residing in Poland.

-------

Anyway, I got a couple of questions. :)

1. Do you developed 'magnetic center' alone? Or maybe with help of the teacher in real life (not internet)?
If it was with teacher: which type of teacher? legit 4th way? Buddhism? Yoga? something else?
Does it even matter? G. suggested that various paths have 'different' speed... (fakir - slowest, 4th way - fastest, but hard to 'grok')

2. I guess you recommendation to find a teacher (man 6/7) is for those who are on ANY level, right?
I just have a feeling that alone, I won't be able to do something meaningful... I need a group, I group in real life, NOT in Internet.

My pleasure. Teaching/learning is a pleasure, and I am grateful that you have given me the opportunity. A true teacher will never give you a belief system, but rather he/she will take away the false beliefs that hold you back.

You say you have heard negative things about Osho. When it comes to man 6/7 teachers, and especially such a public figure like Osho was, they are bound to be controversial. More than 10 000 people lived around Osho when he made that city in the US. People came and went. He could not control what all those people did. It was a crazy time with free sex etc etc...:)

Despite all the controversy Osho was a man 7 teacher. The man 7 teacher who helped me was actually Osho's bodyguard and he became enlightened because of Osho. If you read books/transcripts of Osho's speeches you will find that he is a great man of wisdom and enormous vocabulary.

Many of today's teachers became enlightened because of Osho. My advice would be to judge by the fruit....

From the man 5 perspective everything circles around the same "truth". There is no need to follow a specific system or teaching as that might just be another prison for you. Rather it is best to follow your own excitement as that is the shortest possible way to find your own center. When you are excited you forget time/space and you live in the now. As man 5 you become this permanently, and excitement actually follows you. Does not mean you are hyperactive all the time, but you have inner excitement about whatever is going on.

I know of one legit (wo)man 6/7 Polish teacher. Neelam, a native of Poland, has been giving Satsang internationally since 1996. She is a direct disciple of H. W. L. Poonja (Papaji):

_http://neelam.org/neelambio/

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5mmcbobe4E

So, to your questions:

1) You can develop the magnetic center alone yes. Just by following your excitement and accepting and loving whatever arises and seeing "negative" feelings as a signposts of some false belief you are holding unconsciously. Find the belief in you and you will learn its lesson and it will fall away as irrelevant.

In my experience being with a man 6/7 teacher is very helpful. Not because of what they say (remember that a true teacher will not try to give you a belief system) but because of the "Buddha field" that is created around them.

When sitting with a man 6/7 teacher you will be affected by this high vibration. If you are receptive you will feel loved and accepted on the deepest level of your being. This can start a healing revolution from the inside out.

At the same time everything in you that is in the way of you being on the same level will come up around the teacher (if you allow it to and don't resist). He/she might address that directly as it happens or you can process it out of your system yourself.

Many times a teacher will address and answer question in you even before you are consciously aware that you are holding the question. Everything in you will be seen (the good, bad, and ugly) and this is scary to many people. It's best to find a teacher that you are excited about and that you trust.

The saying: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" is very true in my experience.

2. Yes, a man 6/7 teacher will always be helpful. But you cannot put anything on him/her. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your own mind (that very much includes your subconscious mind).

When you are born into this world you are a totally open and pure consciousness, a "tabula rasa" so to speak. As you enter the polluted mass consciousness of this planet you will begin to assimilate this negativity. It's like a pure droplet of water entering a polluted ocean. it will soon be just as polluted as the rest of the ocean.

At some point in early development something in you contracts to protect itself from the incoming negativity/pollution. This is how the separation/ego is created. At the core the ego is in judgement about the world. This is why so many people want to "change the world" instead of changing themselves.

You have to work all the way back to that original judgement and accept the world as it is. Then you will see the perfection in the "imperfect".

A man 6/7 teacher can be of great help with this healing process because in his/her presence you will feel safe/loved enough to open up and let go of the negativity you hold on to.

 

[Highfive]

hello all,

I hope everyone is having a good day.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions HighFive.

What meditation do you do?

Also what exercises and thoughts can we do to raise our vibration and also to have more energy also? Thanks.

Take care and have Fun also :)

Hi there :)

At the level of man 1-4 meditation is still a "doing". Ironically the purpose of meditation is to "be", no? hehe

When I was starting my quest for authenticity I used to meditate regularly. That is sitting down in semi lotus position and observe and accept whatever came up in my mind.

As I grew I soon understood that this process should not just be limited to "15 minutes a day", but rather it should be practiced at all waking hours.

When it is practiced at all times your mind will really begin to unravel itself and you will go deeper and deeper.

True meditation is when you melt into the oneness of Consciousness. This can be experienced rarely and briefly as man 1-4.

As man 5 this experience is easy to access in meditation as your normal state of being is so close to it.

As I have said you can do whatever excites you to raise your vibration. There is no specific exercise that works for everyone. Your whole life has to be "the exercise" and it is if you follow whatever excites you and take it as far as you can with zero expectations and attachment to "outcomes".

You already have 100% energy like everyone does. However, a lot of the energy is bound up in "out of alignment" believes assimilated from the mass (un)consciousness. To reclaim all your energy you must process out the negative believes by following your excitement and creating a "space of unconditional allowance" in your mind.

I would not limit myself to anything. Not to a teaching, not to a group, and not to a teacher. Because you never know where excitement will lead you, and therefore if you put conditions on it you can hold yourself back.

 

[sitting]

Why after announcing your state on first introduction to people, it has to be qualified with another claim of telekinesis?

Allow me a different take.

It's good if Highfive expands his dialogue--and his experiences.
It's helpful to the forum, and believe it or not, it may help him as well.

He has frankly described the goal of what I think many here seek. He claims he's done it. A fuller description can be informative--especially if his journey took him to the wrong house! But it really doesn't matter. Either way it would be educational. For us AND for him. If he's willing.

I would add his style (thus far) reflects a bit of anxiety. Kinda like "do I show or do I not show." That's what I sense intuitively. It takes great courage--and depth--to be an open book. Laura is an open book.

So far, Highfive has not given even an adequate intro--in my opinion. I like to see more.

PS
One side benefit for me already, is the best summation I've ever seen on Gurdjieff. And I've always found him difficult. Thank you Laura--for your terrifying memory. :)

 

[Highfive]

In any case the concept of a sudden illumination via a peak experience, saying he's stepping back and noticing his thoughts and emotions from "far away" etc. - just look like red flags to me. Maybe he is "far away" and someone / something else is taking the helm and doesn't want to interact in case of discovery - it's a possibility, isn't it?

Not to mention that these "peak experiences" these types have are often drug induced. If not, then they can result from questionable meditation techniques.

I would also guess that even with "peak experiences" of a kind that really bring some understanding, that the knowledge gained might easily get corrupted by ego, unless one is networking with people who are aware of such traps..

Yes, an early "peak experience" that is mistakenly taken for "enlightenment" can easily be corrupted by the ego. I've seen this happen to several people.

Early peak experiences or "satori's" happened to me too. But I understood them for what they are; motivational signs that you are on the right track.

There is no knowledge to gain in my experience. When you get rid of all "knowledge" and connect more and more with intelligence infinity the mind functions naturally and unclogged like it is supposed to by giving you whatever you need to know, whenever you need to know it.

The wise don't know anything, but they can still answer questions in a profound way because they are really channeling the all-knowing Higher mind and whatever serves the situation/questioner will come to them naturally at perfect timing.

This is what Sokrates meant when he said that "I know one thing: that I know nothing".

 

[Highfive]

Say the owners put on weekly meetings for people wanting to be clocksmiths. Then a guy comes along every so often and just observes and never says anything. He does this for years.

One day out of the blue he announces that he is a master clocksmith and that what they do in these meetings really isn't up to scratch. He also says its the last time he'll ever speak but he'll still attend as usual, observe and say nothing.

Some people would probably ask him why come at all if its no good? Others might ask him that if he decides to come, why not offer some helpful advice from a master clocksmith, given that he is attending anyway?

They seem like valid questions. I can't answer them as I'm no man number 5 of course, so I wouldn't understand the motivations of such a man.

Perhaps Highfive might be able to answer?

Thats what im saying - plus this person said that this was his final post unless people had additional questions. This is an addition question (why no interest in posting? Why this your final post?) and through these question comes further understanding of this persons motivation giving insight to thinking/reasoning of man number 5 (if this person is).

It would be STS to try and make someone participate that doesn't want to. Through these question we can find out more information in a STO way by not violating this persons free will as said person wrote if there are more additional question he will answer. Obviously I have my doubts about said person being who they say they are however just trying to get the most info out of said person without bashing or trying to convince trying to find out more information based on his parameters that he has set. However given his post I feel that I have scared away a watching bird that I wanted to get a closer look at and I will be surprised if he responds to any of this... back to life, reading, and growth.

I prefer to answer people who are relaxed and has a genuine interest in growing. You have so far mostly focused on my lack of answering questions instead of actually asking questions... Don't worry, this "watching bird" is not gone with the wind. I will answer questions on this thread if people are interested. I will, however, not limit myself to only serving in this way. Hope this clarifies this issue.

 

[Highfive]

Hello HighFive.

This little poem describes a 'higher level' person. Do you think he/she could be on a 'number 4' or a 'number 5'?

When I chose to forget, my mind was set free
I unlearnt all the junk that I got from thee
I squashed my wants, got rid of my needs
I battled desires and dueled with greeds

I also stopped doing the mortgage time
The banks got TARP money, I am keeping my dime
The books of law I flushed down the drain
I don't need the shit that these books contain

It is hard to break from a virtual prison
It is useless to beg, there is no one to reason
One needs the courage to oppose the machine
Its powers – enormous, its forces – unseen.

But little by little I achieved my goal
I am totally free, I can't be controlled
I am sorry to say, but the joke is on you
So long, suckers, Good buy and adjeu!

Sincerely,
SlavaOn

Hehe, nice little poem there. It seems to describe a higher man 4 or man 5, yes...:)

 

[HiThere]

Why after announcing your state on first introduction to people, it has to be qualified with another claim of telekinesis?

Allow me a different take.

It's good if Highfive expands his dialogue--and his experiences.
It's helpful to the forum, and believe it or not, it may help him as well.

He has frankly described the goal of what I think many here seek. He claims he's done it. A fuller description can be informative--especially if his journey took him to the wrong house! But it really doesn't matter. Either way it would be educational. For us AND for him. If he's willing.

I would add his style (thus far) reflects a bit of anxiety. Kinda like "do I show or do I not show." That's what I sense intuitively. It takes great courage--and depth--to be an open book. Laura is an open book.

So far, Highfive has not given even an adequate intro--in my opinion. I like to see more.

PS
One side benefit for me already, is the best summation I've ever seen on Gurdjieff. And I've always found him difficult. Thank you Laura--for your terrifying memory. :)

Well put. And I too found Lauras G. summation valuable; thank you Laura once again! :)

 

[Highfive]

Quote from: Highfive on April 28, 2015, 06:12:04 PM
... this will be both my introduction post and my final post.

I am what Mouravieff refer to as man 5 ...
Your final post ?
A man of word would be silent after saying that, I guess.

He said final post unless there are any other questions about this topic...

Quote from: Menna on April 29, 2015, 11:36:21 PM
Why would someone who is man number 5 not want to help out others who want to evolve?

This is why I responded to the OP (not "organic portal" but "original poster" , and as a I said I will answer questions regarding this on this thread. But I will not limit myself to this forum and I have other "real life" activities to attend to also.

I understand you like everyone else have other things to tend to however what threw me of was "NO INTEREST" and "FINAL POST." A man number 5 would have knowledge that others here don't and just by interacting here other people are asking for knowledge, help to grow. What you said seemed black/white to me. You can always stop by from time to time and give insight nothing has to be final you don't have to limit anything life is fluid and on going.

You are really hung up on that stuff aren't you..:) I said I have no interest in being a regular forum poster because I don't, and it would have been my final post if people had no interest and no questions was asked. So, do you have a question? A man 5 have no attachment to gained knowledge. There is either knowingness or not. All wisdom is channeled from the Higher mind/intelligent infinity and man 5 has a strong and permanent connection to that.

Anyone who spreads a believe system is a teacher (why deny that?). And this forum centered around Laura is doing that. There is truth mixed with fear-based beliefs and paranoia and victim consciousness. I am adding what I have to offer in this mix, but I will not become a regular "swimmer" in it.

 

[Highfive]

My peak experience built up over the course of a week. I was at a retreat with a man 7 teacher and every day sitting with him I got stronger and stronger kundalini energy moving up my spine and hitting my brain like waves of pleasure (I had read about this before but didn't really believe it could be so vivid and real).

The day of the actual peak experience I was sitting alone in my cabin meditating and feeling very strong kundalini. The center of my brain (3rd eye or pineal gland) started to vibrate intensely, and I could actually move this vibrating ball wherever I wanted up and down the spine. I remember a candle light flicker was kind of annoying me, and immediately an "energy tentacle" (can't find a better way to describe it) moved out from the top of my head and touched the flame. The flame was totally still after that.

This weirdness went on for about 1 hour, and then I sort of came out of it a totally changed being.

Hello Highfive,

I have a question for you: Have you been doing the Work as defined by Gurdjieff before and after this peak experience?

Hi and thanks for good question,

Yes, indeed. I did "the work" for many years before the "peak experience", and the work never stops. There is always new challenges and things to be excited about.

Initially, when I started doing "the work" I had what many "satori's" which is a peak experience that does not really change a person permanently, it just offers motivation and is a sign that you are going in the right direction.

The "peak experience" that took me to the level of man 5 was a completely different kind of "peak experience" than a satori.

I was permanently and completely changed when I came out of that.

I moved through the level of man 4 for many years, expanding and clearing up things from the sub-conscious. Being with a man 7 teacher only accelerated the process.

Being total is very important. You must be total in your dedication to get anywhere. Spiritual growth must be the number one priority at all times, but without being "rigid" and "serious" about it. It must be playful and fun and open-ended.

Many teacher talk about "killing the ego" and so forth. I don't agree. As man 5 the ego is no longer overloaded with "worries" that are not its true job. The true job of the ego is just to focus Consciousness into the "now" of physical reality. Spiritual work is to unburden the ego, not kill it.