Hating My Mother and Merry Christmas - Two of my *I*s

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

lilyalic, have you read Character Disturbance by George Simon? If not, I would highly recommend it. I think that Simon's work would give you some excellent strategies for dealing with her behaviour, which are applicable in a practical way.

No I have not! but thankfully I'm able to get it :) I will definitely give it a read! Thank you Endymion!

Would you "hate" a refrigerator? So, when you are talking to your mother, pretend you are talking to a refrigerator, you will be less likely to "identify" with her and get vacuumed in and take things personally. Remember that narcissist suck your energy, that is how they survive.

That is true, I need to stop labelling her as my "Mother" and along with this label comes a person who failed to take on the expected label of a 'mum'.

Its a conundrum, you can't. Your mothers "entertainment" is to suck you dry. You could meet your mom at a movie theater, right before show time so you don't have to talk to her very much, bring lots of friends and other family members

Yes it is pretty evident that my mothers 'entertainment' is to drain me of energy!

These are great ideas, however I usually see my mum on a one-to-one basis because when I go to stay, it is only me and her in the house (Along with the animals) and noone really comes round, but since I've been going back home (And my friends who I don't see that often are there) - my friends come around and this keeps the atmosphere very fake on my Mother's behalf ofcourse ;) so it works out well!

-Bring a friend with you, someone who is doing the "work" and who she does not know would be best, they can distract your mother a little, people behave better when they have guests. Outside observations of how you interact with your mother would be beneficial.

I have attempted to get outside perspectives, not from those who are doing the "work" - but since these friends have spent time with my mother on their own, my mother seems to have manipulated and, in a way, 'brain washed' them into believing she is 'lovely' and just has a few 'issues' i.e; separation anxiety etc.

My boyfriend doesn't even want to meet her! (he does 'the work'), he doesn't even like the sound of her voice over the phone (I don't blame him, she does has a 'child whining' voice). But one day I'm sure they'll meet (unfortunately), so hopefully some things are discussed then between us.

Remember that you, your self development and the "work" come first. It is up to you to decide where your priorities lie and whether dealing with your mother and retaining your pets are worth the risk. (I know you love your pets, I'm sure there is a solution)

Yes I do believe that it is worth the risk, as I've put up with it for a long time I've learnt to dissociate when absolutely necessary and deal with it on my own when she is not there or I have someone to talk to. Also, like you've mentioned, it'll be something to learn from, and to look back on!

I will find a solution and Thank you for reassuring me with that one :)

Starting out with the work though, it may be best to see your mom only occasionally or not at all, as the first order of business is to stop becoming a power cell for the matrix, and to conserve and build up your energy reserve, and become conscious of where your energy is going.

This right here is excellent advice for me, thank you!

Just going to point out that since you have a narcissistic mother you likely have some narcissistic traits yourself (most of us do), it would be best to be aware of these if you are not already.

Yes I do exhibit some narcissistic traits myself, but since I'm a little (lets call it 'obsessed') with not becoming a narcissistic mother to my children, I'm working extremely hard on taking these traits away, so that when I do have children (in years time) I will feel prepared, and be able to give the best life possible to them.

Thank you very much for your input furryfrog, much appreciated :)

Kind Regards

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Also consider that perhaps you have so much (justifiable) anger built up towards her that you feel you must be nice to her to keep her from attacking you--which you fear will cause your anger to explode towards her.

To be honest, reading over that and thinking about it, I don't really become afraid of her 'attacking' me any more, I much more expect it than fear it now.

When we lived together, I would attempt to avoid these outbursts, narcissistic rages, general rages (Because she wouldn't rage, or express deep anger to anyone else, because she is 'oh so perfect' to the outsider)... because when she did create this atmosphere it felt like the whole house was diseased. There was even a time when we had a total extreme argument and she saw a man standing behind me and loads of spiritual conundrums occurred in the house (She has a slight psychic ability)

It's true that I get apprehensive about these 'situations' occurring because I feel unstable to control my anger, I will work on that.

Why do you try to give your mother a life free of stress and challenge, when no one else has such a life--especially you? And would such a life be of any real use? Our responsibility to others is basically "only" to speak the truth in love. Others must take it from there. You can't do it for them--and even if you could, you probably shouldn't.

That has really made me think, that kind of 'boost' to new thought patterns and you start to frown haha!
Maybe subconsciously I do partly blame myself for her problems, because she has made me believe it for so long, and maybe I've exhibited some underlying causes myself.

Thank you very much! Your participation is really appreciated!

Kind Regards

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Lilyalic's animals are actually being fostered right now, and it seems like it's not a good situation for them or Lilyalic.

Yeah in a way they are being fostered aren't they!

Thank you for your input :)

[/quote]

@lilyac: I hope you've had the chance to listen to the SOTT radio episode with the author of "Fear of the Abyss" Dr. Aleta Edwards. Amongst other valuable things, she explains how important it is to set the boundaries with narcissistic parents, and she also gives some examples of how to do this.

Thank you very much for the link to that broadcast! I've got webpage open on a separate tab, and will give it a listen when I've woken up a little more! (I have listened to the first few minutes and it already seems extremely helpful with similar symptoms to narcissism)

I agree with Aragorn here, The Strawman.
In order to work through our childhood there are some steps that we have to take. We have to say out loud what we think of our parents, call a spade a spade, work through our feelings of (justifiable) outrage, hatred and so on, before we can move on. IMO, that is what lilyalic is doing.

Why wouldn't you mind hearing the mothers' side of things? How do you think narcissistic parents would respond, if you were to ask about their side of things? If you were to talk to my mother for instance would you be able to see through her charm or her helplessness or this facade that she is the normal one? She would tell you all kinds of things about me, appearing calm and collected, and in the end you would probably believe her. That is how my mother and other narcissists (with or without disorders?) work. She used to do that with friends of mine at the time. She would invite them to dinner without me and then start talking about me, telling them how impatient I was and so on. They just took her word for it and even reprimanded me afterwards.

That is true, I'm trying to get all intellectual opinions (of people who are in the 'work' process)

I can relate with what you said about your Mother inviting your friends around and 'influencing' them in a way.
She did this with my closest friend, and as a result of all the things she 'twisted' my and this friend are no longer in contact, but she still goes round and see's my Mother!

I hope your 'work' process is going as smooth as possible (Although there are many mountains, ha!) , and your problems with your Mother are becoming more clear, as these posts have helped me in many ways.

Thank you!

Kind Regards.

P.s. This forum is extremely helpful for everyone, isn't it? just from this post alone, it makes me realise how much everyone can relate to every aspect of 'hurt' in our lives. It makes me feel so much more connected with the brilliant people of the universe and I suspect it makes everyone feel this way in some aspects too.

 

[Gaby]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Why do you try to give your mother a life free of stress and challenge, when no one else has such a life--especially you? And would such a life be of any real use? Our responsibility to others is basically "only" to speak the truth in love. Others must take it from there. You can't do it for them--and even if you could, you probably shouldn't.

That has really made me think, that kind of 'boost' to new thought patterns and you start to frown haha!
Maybe subconsciously I do partly blame myself for her problems, because she has made me believe it for so long, and maybe I've exhibited some underlying causes myself.

The timing is very good! I was reading an article today that has to do precisely with this concept:

_http://www.pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm

There are some ideas on how to use anger in a safe way in that article.

I've been struggling with similar issues for the longest time. But I don't despair, that will be giving in and I refuse to give in. Now, that is the attitude! ;)

 

[lilyalic]

What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

Just thought it would be nice to discuss the upcoming holiday! Christmas time!

I will upload photos when Christmas decorations are put up in my town, as they're usually beautiful!

I'd say that what I love most about Christmas is the 'togetherness' and that everyone feels like your family! and considering I feel like we're all together in 'something' on this forum it'd be nice to know of others celebrations!

I know some will be celebrating on Julius Ceasers' behalf too, (I know my boyfriend will;) ) But it means something different to everyone!

What I usually do is work on Christmas Eve (I think this is the best day to work because everyone is just happy!) and go round to my Father's in the afternoon/night and play Chess, Cards, Wii (Boxing, Golf, Bowling) with my grandparents - My Nan always runs at the TV with the Wii Remote when she's bowling haha!

Then, on Christmas Day, I get woken up by my Mother jumping on my bed! and ofcourse my lovely dog Max :), go downstairs and open my gifts, the cat usually rips some open too! and we leave the wrapping on the floor for a while so she can play in it! My Mum also gets really annoyed because my cat (Ariel) usually jumps in and out of the Christmas tree (she's knocked it down a few times).

Around lunch, we go round to my Nans (on my Mothers side) and there is My mum, nan, granddad, cousins, auntie and I.
My nan makes prawn cocktail for starters and makes a beautiful roast (this year there will be sheerly meat and veg on my plate! mm!)

I hope everyone is as excited as me! :D

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I will be going back to the States for a family visit for the first time in over 2 years excepting going recently due to the death of a close family member. Because of that, it won't be an entirely joyous occasion, but if former visits are any measure, then I will just chill out with the family, go with their flow, try to dodge the carbs, and basically do a lot of cathcing up with various folks.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: What does everyone get up to for Christmas?

I will be going back to the States for a family visit for the first time in over 2 years excepting going recently due to the death of a close family member. Because of that, it won't be an entirely joyous occasion, but if former visits are any measure, then I will just chill out with the family, go with their flow, try to dodge the carbs, and basically do a lot of cathcing up with various folks.

I'm sorry to hear that! - I hope everyone heals well.

But It's wonderful you'll be going back to the states for the first time in over 2 years!

Haha, yes avoid the carbs ;) It'll be rather difficult around Christmas won't it!

Have a wonderful Holiday Patience!

 

[Skyalmian]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

I do not know why, but after I fled my father in 2005 and disowned him, never wanting anything to do with him, my relationship with my mother began to gradually go downhill. ("She has a slight psychic ability." So does mine.) There was increasing levels of anger, irritation, resentment (bordering on hatred at times, which I've been accused of countlessly), bursts, and at peak drama times it was as though there was 'ozone' between us, indicating a storm (always indicated by the solar plexus center having 'earthquakes', contracting, etc. despite nothing physical happening). It became worse and worse as the years progressed, into 2012/2013, until I left in frustration, didn't even hug her goodbye.

I dropped the 7 1/2-year grudge against my father in July 2013, un-disowned him, opened up contact, etc. For reasons I can't explain, most stuff aimed at my mother vanished.

Back with her, things aren't perfect (I still think I don't belong here, and indicators are clearly showing I was better off elsewhere.), but we get along without all of the past drama stuff—that is, without the sniping, resentment, etc. although other issues still exist.

I post this wondering if there is anyone in your life, maybe a family member or relative related to your mother, that you still have grudges, issues, etc. with, that could be healed / released, indirectly affecting your relationship with her. Healing such won't make things perfect, but at least better / clearer. — If that's the case.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

My Mother also rang me over a "Migraine" and started screaming down the phone that she wanted her Mother, but there was no way I could get there. She said she thought she was going to die and was just screaming crying and saying there was nothing I could do, that is so strange you had a similar experience.
I advised her to take painkillers and get rest, and explained that it was probably just a Migraine, but she still persisted she believed she was dying. I had to ring my Granddad in order for him to go around, after I was off the phone to every contact I just began to cry because it was such an attack.

On the one hand that's weird, on the other, probably a common experience in this situation!

I admire how you maturely dealt with that situation.

At some point you just reach a point where you're "over it", and are just unfazed. Your mom sounds a couple of notches more extreme, and the fact that she's still making you cry suggests that you are very much invested in changing her, and are allowing yourself to be food.

I also can relate in terms of loving her, which sometimes I hate because it keeps me attached to her, I think that's just because they are our Mothers and there's nothing that can change them. I am slowly beginning to accept that she'll never change, it is just very hard to accept a Mother so detrimental to my well being.

What helps is to do your own thing for a while, focus on yourself and your life. She has her demons to battle, and they're not yours, and you shouldn't battle them for her. You're too mired and invested into this mutual reality you share with her, and it's driving you bonkers emotionally and draining you on every level. It helped me to live across the country on my own for 3 years. When I came back, my perspective was very different and the old nonsense could no longer fly. I no longer accepted things that I settled for or struggled with before, since I was already on the other side and living that other side. Her attempt to return to how things were was simply not "within my reality" if that makes sense, so it is impossible. I had an expectation of privacy, of freedom to live my life unmolested, and a sense of personal responsibility for my life - which I also expect from others that I associate with. And this became "normal" for me, so when I came back, it was very easy to draw the needed boundaries immediately.

Imagine it like being a slave during the slavery era, and then someone comes along and frees you. Then you develop a life as a respected and free individual for several years, then come to visit your old slave plantation, and your old master expects you to be a slave or act like a slave again. If before it was a psychological, emotional, and physical struggle, a burden that you felt stuck with and unsure how to deal with, now you're at a level where this is a joke at best, your entire predisposition to life, your whole reality and what you expect from others whom you allow into your life is completely different and is as much a part of you as being a slave was back in the day.

A butterfly can't go back to being a cocoon! So I'd recommend developing self-respect, building your own life with people who care about you, who respect you, and who contribute to your life positively, just as you contribute to theirs, without any manipulation or using one another. Get used to that reality, so anything else would simply not ever work again, it would be a ridiculous joke that won't even make a beep on your radar.

Where you an only child brought up by solely your mother by any chance? - Still I am astonished how much your experiences are so similar to mine, due to that I hold the up most respect for the way you deal with it. I always block out my emotions to how much she if effecting me, and I understand how much it actually upsets me- so I hope you cope well with those emotions too.

I used to have a lot more emotions to block, but now at best it is a generalized pity, not for anything she complains about, but who she is as a human being. If it helps you can tell her you love her and you forgive her for everything, but you're choosing a new life now. Another approach is just to be less and less available - and honestly, because you should be busy. You should be doing what grows your life and your soul, and there's a lot to be done, so frankly you really will be busy if you do this, and just won't have time for people like her. No time for grudges or drama or babying someone - there's a universe of knowledge waiting for you, amazing people to meet, and life to live!

 

[Vic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

Lilyalic's animals are actually being fostered right now,

I'm not sure that a discussion of this seriousness is the place for a game of semantics. Do you, Renaissance?

and it seems like it's not a good situation for them or Lilyalic.

Nor, indeed, Lilyalic's mother. But the house isn't burning down. A dysfunctional relationship is presenting a challenge which is why Lilyalic has posted. Where is the need to remove the family pets from their home.

I think you're making some assumptions here.

I would appreciate knowing the assumptions you think I am making?

I wouldn't say that they're in a loving environment.

Why would you say that? Lilyalic hasn't said that her animals are living in an environment devoid of love.

No one said anything about dumping them. There are good homes that could probably be found with a little effort.

No, you are right. My use of the term 'dumping' was based on internal considering. I apologise for that Renaissance, and to Nancy2feathers.

There are circumstances that create a need that are often beyond our capacity to do on our own.

Yes, without a doubt. That's why I am here - it's why most of us are here of course. We need help with the circumstances of existing in the third dimension :)

I try to remember that things are often not so black and white.

Yes, me too. But we can only respond to the evidence we hold. When we start seeing some colour our response becomes richer. It's all part of the levels involved in communication I guess.

Sometimes things like foster care, whether for an animal or human is actually a good and healthy thing.

Absolutely. I had a violent father and a depressive mother. They brought a puppy into our family unit when I was about ten. A few months later they gave her to a rescue home. I was so relieved when they took her away because she was suffering from the constantly volatile environment in which she existed, and I found it hard to bear.

We have no reason to assume that Lilyalic's situation is as destructive as that in terms of degree. Nor that her animals are living in fear without experiencing love from the humans in their home environment. We certainly don't have evidence that her animals should be evicted, nor a desire on her part for such a drastic action. I think that the suggestion should have been held back until we had sufficient information from Lilyalic.

I worked in foster care for a little while and many of the parents I met were pretty amazing people. I've also known of some that were god awful and this is where research is needed.

It's a minefield. The british system actually placed a girl of six with us when I was around twelve. My mother was desperate for a girl. The child lasted as long as the puppy. Need I say more?

And in full disclosure Nancy2feathers is my mom, and she fostered my dog for me when I couldn't bring her to a new place I moved to. I couldn't have asked for a better home for her. :)

Your mum sounds lovely. And I know she is lovely because I have read some of her posts.



mod fixed quotes

 

[Vic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Quote SAO: ... What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

If you read the previous posts by lilyalic, it's pretty obvious that her mother has some serious issues (beating her up etc).

Yes I did read the previous posts - that's why I decided to contribute to this thread. And yes it is pretty obvious her mother has some issues. But no to your 'beating her up etc' - she mentions being subjected to violence once in all her posts and it refers to when she was a young child. Not in the present. So I think for you to suggest she is currently being beaten up by her mother is inaccurate, misleading, and of no help to Lilyalic or readers of this thread.

The challenge Lilyalic is dealing with is now. And my response to her was based on this.

What you're doing here IMO is some sort of black and white "über-moralism" where you're basically blaming the victim for not having enough understanding for the abuser.

A full and genuine reading of her posts show that she - (Lilyalic, sorry to refer to you as a third party, but I would like to explain to Aragorn, and you, that far from the "über-moralism" that Aragorn accuses me of, there is a carefully reasoned and compassionate basis underlying my first post) - is just as unsure of herself, as she is of her mother. One thing is clear though - she loves her. Her remarks about loving her Mum far outnumber those of hate.

But certain non-neutral forum members, those that relate subjectively to Lilyalic's issue, or those who seemed to want to post their own stream-of-consciousness solutions to her issue, jumped on the 'narcissist mother' bandwagon. The focus was then put on her mother as the big bad bogeyman.

Was this helpful to Lilyalic? She has said on her feelings about her mum:

• I unconditionally love her
• Of course I want to keep in contact with her because I love her
• I also can relate in terms of loving her, which sometimes I hate because it keeps me attached to her, I think that's just because they are our Mothers and there's nothing that can change them.
• ... because she did have an awful past with my Father who violently abused her
• I understand that 'hating' (maybe I use the word hate a little too hastily)
• I am pretty much over the initial hurt, I'm just going through the process of accepting this.

Yes, she also speaks about her negative feelings for her mum, butit is these that were seized on and held up as the only important dynamic going on, and the one to focus on - before my 'uber-moralist' post that is :)
It is all too easy and common for people new to the concept of narcissism (and other disorders) to start seeing the symptoms in people they are having a dysfunctional relationship with. I am not saying Lilyalic's mother isn't narcissistic - she more than likely is going by Lilyalic's posts. But encouraging her to run with that could easily have hindered rather than helped her. All the blame was being attached to her mother.

Yes, she could have left her mother's house, her home, and never had anything to do with the evil vampire again. But she needs to make her own mind up on that. This boogeyman that people were creating was, in fact, the woman that Lilyalic had/has a lot of love for.

I believed that that slide needed to be halted. Lilyalic doubted not only her mum but herself. The evidence as I saw it showed that she needed balance. This is why I posted as I did, suggesting that she look at her own part in the relationship as well as that of her mother.
So no, Aragorn, I'm not blaming Lilyalic for not having enough understanding of her abuser - I'm suggesting there is the opportunity for reward in understanding what makes her mum tick.
In Amazing Grace, Laura, speaking about putting attention on evil, negative ideas, wrote:
However, a comprehensive understanding of these forces is absolutely necessary in order to know how to give them less energy.
Sometimes we need to remember the big picture - the cause rather than the symptoms. At the risk of sounding patronising I want to say that we also need to remember one of the fundamentals of the teachings gained from the Cs - Knowledge Protects.
If Lilyalic isin serious danger (and there is nothing in her posts to suggest this) I would want her to run as far from her mother as possible.Instead she has a golden opportunity in her current situation to acquire Knowledge that will protect her when the next narcissist, or even worse, walks into her life. If she is in The Work then there's a good probability that will happen.

Edit=Quote

 

[Carl]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

You come across as aggressive here and I agree with Aragorn your post has a "blame the victim" flavour to it. If you would like to suggest an opposing point of view then you'd do better without the paramoralisms and the total lack of tact. Why did you feel the need to berate before more information was given, instead of taking a more gentle approach?

Yes I did read the previous posts - that's why I decided to contribute to this thread. And yes it is pretty obvious her mother has some issues. But no to your 'beating her up etc' - she mentions being subjected to violence once in all her posts and it refers to when she was a young child. Not in the present. So I think for you to suggest she is currently being beaten up by her mother is inaccurate, misleading, and of no help to Lilyalic or readers of this thread.

The challenge Lilyalic is dealing with is now. And my response to her was based on this.

It's quite clear from both this thread and previous posts that lilyalic is being continually emotionally beat up by her mother, and has been physically beat up in the past. For this to happen even once from a parent is a major red flag that for some reason you want to ignore.

A full and genuine reading of her posts show that she - (Lilyalic, sorry to refer to you as a third party, but I would like to explain to Aragorn, and you, that far from the "über-moralism" that Aragorn accuses me of, there is a carefully reasoned and compassionate basis underlying my first post) - is just as unsure of herself, as she is of her mother. One thing is clear though - she loves her. Her remarks about loving her Mum far outnumber those of hate.

Then why does your well reasoned and compassionate response about an abusive parent come down to simply: "Just get over it"? I don't quite follow here. "Love" has as many definitions as there are people, what point are you trying to make here?

But certain non-neutral forum members, those that relate subjectively to Lilyalic's issue, or those who seemed to want to post their own stream-of-consciousness solutions to her issue, jumped on the 'narcissist mother' bandwagon. The focus was then put on her mother as the big bad bogeyman.

You mean those who have been through the situation themselves, and can therefore empathize and offer advice? How much of the recommended psychology books have you read?
I don't see any "big bad boogeyman" here, that's total nonsense. What I see is advice on how to deal with what is effectively a predator, whether a conscious predator or not.

Was this helpful to Lilyalic? She has said on her feelings about her mum:

• I unconditionally love her
• Of course I want to keep in contact with her because I love her
• I also can relate in terms of loving her, which sometimes I hate because it keeps me attached to her, I think that's just because they are our Mothers and there's nothing that can change them.
• ... because she did have an awful past with my Father who violently abused her
• I understand that 'hating' (maybe I use the word hate a little too hastily)
• I am pretty much over the initial hurt, I'm just going through the process of accepting this.

Yes, she also speaks about her negative feelings for her mum, butit is these that were seized on and held up as the only important dynamic going on, and the one to focus on - before my 'uber-moralist' post that is :)
It is all too easy and common for people new to the concept of narcissism (and other disorders) to start seeing the symptoms in people they are having a dysfunctional relationship with. I am not saying Lilyalic's mother isn't narcissistic - she more than likely is going by Lilyalic's posts. But encouraging her to run with that could easily have hindered rather than helped her. All the blame was being attached to her mother.

Are you saying that any kind of abuse can be excused just because the victim has developed some kind of Stockholm Syndrome? Please tell me, how does the blame reside with the child?
Of course Lilyalic has ultimate responsibility over her life, which was pointed out much more sensibly by other members.

Yes, she could have left her mother's house, her home, and never had anything to do with the evil vampire again. But she needs to make her own mind up on that. This boogeyman that people were creating was, in fact, the woman that Lilyalic had/has a lot of love for.

Yet she is a predator none the less, and one that needs to be learned how to deal with.

I believed that that slide needed to be halted. Lilyalic doubted not only her mum but herself. The evidence as I saw it showed that she needed balance. This is why I posted as I did, suggesting that she look at her own part in the relationship as well as that of her mother.
So no, Aragorn, I'm not blaming Lilyalic for not having enough understanding of her abuser - I'm suggesting there is the opportunity for reward in understanding what makes her mum tick.

This is all true enough. But again, it's all in the delivery.

In Amazing Grace, Laura, speaking about putting attention on evil, negative ideas, wrote:
However, a comprehensive understanding of these forces is absolutely necessary in order to know how to give them less energy.
Sometimes we need to remember the big picture - the cause rather than the symptoms. At the risk of sounding patronising I want to say that we also need to remember one of the fundamentals of the teachings gained from the Cs - Knowledge Protects.
If Lilyalic isin serious danger (and there is nothing in her posts to suggest this) I would want her to run as far from her mother as possible.Instead she has a golden opportunity in her current situation to acquire Knowledge that will protect her when the next narcissist, or even worse, walks into her life. If she is in The Work then there's a good probability that will happen.

Well that depends on how you define serious danger. I would say continuous emotional draining is quite a danger.
First one needs to acknowledge the damage that has already been done to them (and is still being continually added to) and put a full stop to it, get some distance from the predator, and gather one's resources.

 

[Menna]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Realizing that the hate does more harm for you then good and its not about her at this point because now you have the knowledge that she is a narcissistic now how are you going to proceed. Let this effect you in "The Now"... cut the cord. Let go she was going to turn out no other way nothing could be done. Realize that parents "mess up" childrens lives all the time. After it happens those children who are grown now and stop hating probably have a better life then the ones that realize it and still hate. I know that what I just said is easier said then done but really I don't think there is a "how to" on how to stop hating your mother. You will stop hating when you are readythe more pressure you put on the idea of hating your mother the stronger it gets I feel

 

[Jasmine]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

Quote SAO: ... What has helped me personally is that I know she does love and care about me, but she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter. So I don't hate her, I just hate her outer shell, and unfortunately she is too identified and set in her ways to ever change that, and I have accepted that.

And that's the crux of it.

There seems to be a strong service-to-self undercurrent to this thread. I mean, I know we need to protect, defend, and improve ourselves. But certain people are bandying the term 'narcissist' about and using it to judge their mothers with. I wouldn't mind hearing the mothers' sides of things.

To me it sounds like teenage angst - don't get me wrong, I had teenage angst at the age of thirty and I was still railing at my Mum. But we need to get over it, and come to the same sort of awareness as SAO mentions above "...she is also a broken human being and so there is too much internal interference in her ability to have a healthy relationship with me, or anyone for that matter."

Going by your posts I get the impression you are giving your mother a lot of pain, Lilyalic. How about concentrating on that as well as your own pain? In terms of equalising the playing field I mean. Narcissism comes in many shades and can creep up on us unawares.

That suggestion of 'fostering' your animals out grated against me. Sometimes I wonder how some people can call themselves animal lovers. I regard myself as one, and the idea of evicting my animals from the home they know and love, and dumping them in some strange place is horrendous. If a human did that to his/her kin he/she would be called psychopathic. Animals are at our mercy in just the same way we are at the mercy of the 4D predator. In fact more so - we have the chance to survive through the acquisition of knowledge.

If you read the previous posts by lilyalic, it's pretty obvious that her mother has some serious issues (beating her up etc). What you're doing here IMO is some sort of black and white "über-moralism" where you're basically blaming the victim for not having enough understanding for the abuser.

@lilyac: I hope you've had the chance to listen to the SOTT radio episode with the author of "Fear of the Abyss" Dr. Aleta Edwards. Amongst other valuable things, she explains how important it is to set the boundaries with narcissistic parents, and she also gives some examples of how to do this.

Link: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottnet/2013/10/20/dr-aleta-edwards-interview-fear-of-the-abyss

I agree with you Aragorn. My heart went out to lilyalic when I read that post.

 

[lilyalic]

Re: How to stop hating my Narcissistic mother

I post this wondering if there is anyone in your life, maybe a family member or relative related to your mother, that you still have grudges, issues, etc. with, that could be healed / released, indirectly affecting your relationship with her. Healing such won't make things perfect, but at least better / clearer. — If that's the case.

Well, not related. But I see there's a massive grudge on my behalf towards my Father for what he did to my Mother, and for what I witnessed with my own eyes.
This grudge will never be taken away, simply because my Father has formed a front in which he believes he only ever hit my Mother once (and this is when she was 8 months pregnant with me) - but he is lying, he beaten her up many times.

There is a MASSIVE issue between my parents, because they absolutely HATE each other - my Mother even becomes jealous if my Father helps me out, and she likes to remind me that he wasn't there during the first 10 years of my life.

I don't think this will ever get resolved between them, my Father will never admit the pain he caused (we have had a heated discussion over it where he 'admitted' he regretted what he did, but as he shows some psychopathic qualities I don't think his regret is important to him)

But, never the less, thank you for sharing and for your contribution, Skysira, and I'm glad to know you found solutions.

Kind Regards

Yes I did read the previous posts - that's why I decided to contribute to this thread. And yes it is pretty obvious her mother has some issues. But no to your 'beating her up etc' - she mentions being subjected to violence once in all her posts and it refers to when she was a young child. Not in the present. So I think for you to suggest she is currently being beaten up by her mother is inaccurate, misleading, and of no help to Lilyalic or readers of this thread.

The challenge Lilyalic is dealing with is now. And my response to her was based on this.

Actually, my Mothers violence only came to halt last year (she punched me in the face twice in front of my friend).. and then this year it's become a lot more vocal. However, she did spit in my face because, I quote "she didn't want to hit me". I'm not trying to seem like the total victim here, I'm just adding more information.

I do believe that the emotional side to our relationship, and the emotional damage, holds alot more potential than the actual violence, in the way it creates more damage.

I think what everyone has contributed in this thread has been extremely helpful.

A full and genuine reading of her posts show that she - (Lilyalic, sorry to refer to you as a third party, but I would like to explain to Aragorn, and you, that far from the "über-moralism" that Aragorn accuses me of, there is a carefully reasoned and compassionate basis underlying my first post) - is just as unsure of herself, as she is of her mother. One thing is clear though - she loves her. Her remarks about loving her Mum far outnumber those of hate.

But certain non-neutral forum members, those that relate subjectively to Lilyalic's issue, or those who seemed to want to post their own stream-of-consciousness solutions to her issue, jumped on the 'narcissist mother' bandwagon. The focus was then put on her mother as the big bad bogeyman.

Ofcourse, we are all extremely uncertain of ourselves at some points. I am certain that my Mother is what she is, whether I unconditionally love her or not, and I am certain she has created alot more pain and suffering than I could have, or any Mother should. I know this is not her fault, like I said, she is the way she is.

I don't believe my remarks on loving her outweigh those of 'hate', I believe the love is inevitable, she is my MUM, but that is just a label.
Never the less, I appreciate the way you bring out my love for her in these posts.

And yes I agree with Carlisle here, those members who have "jumped on the 'narcissist mother' bandwagon are just offering their advice, more than it being subjective, because them themselves have been through a some-what similar journey to me, and understand the 'ups and downs' to this journey.

I'm not blaming Lilyalic for not having enough understanding of her abuser - I'm suggesting there is the opportunity for reward in understanding what makes her mum tick.

Yes that's true, I have an important opportunity in understanding my Mother, but they're just common traits in her that will never change. As for The Work, it does definitely help!

Thank you

Kind Regards