Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions

[Laura]

We had blood drawn yesterday for a second iron panel and my results are encouraging.

Now, keep in mind that I started out with Ferritin of 367. At the time I didn't do the other parts of the iron load test, I just decided that 367 wasn't acceptable. So, I set about aggressively reducing it. I had 800 ccs of blood removed over a period of about 10 days: 2 X 550 and 1 X 250. Additionally, in the past three weeks I've done 3 cycles of EDTA one of which included DMSA.

So, yesterday's numbers are:

Hemoglobin: 11.8 (11.5-16)
Hematocrit: 37 (30-47)


Ferritin: 239.3 (10-291)
Serum Iron: 48 (50-170)
Iron Binding capacity: 335 (295-385)
Transferrin: 2.39 (2.50-3.80)
Transferrin saturation: 14%

That means my Ferritin dropped 128 units in that three week period.

If you lose about 30 for every 550 ccs of blood, that would account for 75 units drop which means that the EDTA must have pulled out 53 - which is significant compared to the 75 from phlebotomy OR some of the drop was due to some other cause.

So, I'm going to do two additional rounds of EDTA without another phlebotomy and then get another test and see what happens. I'm really curious about that possible route for unloading.

 

[Muxel]

High SF with normal TS may indicate malignancy, fatty liver, or inflammation. Also: anemia of inflammation

[quote author=http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/565873_7]Hepcidin

Hepcidin was discovered in 2001 as a urinary antimicrobial peptide synthesized in the liver and was later identified as an adipokine. It has been described as a key regulator of iron homeostasis. Hepatic hepcidin production, however, depends not only on iron homeostasis, but also on hypoxia and inflammatory stimuli. It is of particular relevance that hepcidin levels rise in disorders involving generalized inflammation, which results in hypoferremia due to a combination of decreased duodenal iron absorption and increased sequestration of iron by macrophages. The induction of hepcidin in cultured cell lines and in a murine model by acute inflammatory stimuli has been shown to be mediated mainly by IL-6 via a STAT3 mechanism.

The resulting decrease in plasma iron levels eventually limits iron availability to erythropoiesis and contributes to the anemia associated with infection and inflammation. On the other hand, decrease in extracellular iron concentrations due to hepcidin probably limits iron availability to invading microorganisms, thereby contributing to host defense.[/quote]

Macrophages and intestinal cells have portals (i.e. ferroportin) through which iron passes out. Hepcidin blocks these portals and says, "Nobody's getting out or in."

Hepcidin is a adipokine, like leptin is. Putting on fat is an inflammatory response as no doubt the body is eager to shove toxins away into fat as quickly as possible. Obesity is linked with low serum iron. Is there such a thing as "hepcidin resistance," just as we have insulin resistance and leptin resistance?

Genetic mutations that encode ferroportin can partially or fully interfere with ferroportin ability to bind with hepcidin. This is hemochromatosis type 4, also known as ferroportin disease. In such cases, does the body overproduce hepcidin in vain, leading to "hepcidin resistance"?

The attached flowchart proposes that iron depletion leads to mild induced hypoxia ... and so on until the end: increased glucose clearance and insulin sensitivity. Hypoxia suppresses hepcidin by upping erythropoietin production (erythropoietin being the hormone for RBC production).

 

[LQB]

In Iron Elephant it is mentioned that iron overload in folks can set off metal detectors. If this is true, then EMF exposure of various types could set up resonant conditions that aggravate the bio-damage effects in various tissues. It would be interesting if EMF-sensitive condition correlates at all with iron overload.

 

[Oxajil]

Here are my results:

HB: 7.8 mmol/l [normal range:7.5-10] 14-18
Iron: 14 umol/l [normal range:9-30]
Transferrin: 72 umol/l [normal range:62-98]
Ferritin: 222 ug/l [normal range: 20-150]

So it seems that my ferritin is high.
This is my transferrin saturation, which I calculated by:

: [(serum iron (µmol/l) : 25) / transferrin (g/l)] x 100% (Gambino, 1997)
: (14 : 25) / 5.7142857 x 100% = 9.8%

The transferrin saturation seems to be low, as according to the book, 12-45 is the normal range (p.115). The author writes that it "is essential to investigate for cancer or infection when transferrin saturation or serum ferritin test low. Internal bleeding will also cause low measurements" (p.23).
On page 53 I read: "Blumberg wrote: "Ferritin itself has immunosuppressive effects and the increased ferritin concentration may contribute to immunodeficiency. Blumberg offered a proposal that has been found to be valuable. He wrote, "Can the replication of the virus be decreased by inhibiting the amount of iron (and/or ferritin) available to the host?" And we can add that removal of iron has every prospect of benefiting the patient, at the same time, doing no harm."

The author mentions that when one deals with cancer or any infection, the body tries to withhold iron from those iron-gulping critters. Which may be why I seem to have a low transferrin saturation, since I have the herpes simplex virus in my right eye, which has gone worse with time (after some months since going ketogenic). And my high ferritin level could point towards immunodeficiency, so lowering my ferritin levels by donating blood or using EDTA (thanks for the updates Laura!) will hopefully bring down my ferritin levels, and maybe it will help me starve the virus this way as well.

In the following paper _http://www.nature.com/nrmicro/journal/v6/n7/execsumm/nrmicro1930.html (if anyone wants it, let me know) it says:

Viral infection and iron metabolism

Some large DNA viruses encode their own ribonucleotide reductases to ensure nucleotide supply. Herpes simplex virus 1 and vaccinia virus ribonucleotide reductases are, like their human counterparts, iron dependent4. If the viral enzyme is denied access to cellular iron by the use of cell-permeant ferrous iron chelators, such as 2,2'-bipyridine, virus replication is abrogated142. Inhibitors of DNA replication also affect hepatitis B virus (HBV) replication in vitro143. Hydroxyurea and desferrioxamine both inhibited virion production, but probably through different mechanisms143. Similar to HCV, there is evidence that the accumulation of iron in the liver is associated with a poor outcome in HBV infection. HCMV is another virus for which in vitro replication can be inhibited by iron chelation. Both desferrioxamine and salicylaldehyde isonicotinoyl hydrazone have been used in studies144, 145. The increase in cell size that is the hallmark of HCMV requires mitochondrial activity and macromolecule synthesis, both of which are iron dependent. Iron chelators prevented most of the virus-induced cell enlargement144.

Removal of iron from infected cells or patients is a potential antiviral strategy. However, careful study will be needed to ensure that iron chelators target specific and vulnerable aspects of virus life cycles in appropriate cell types, without unwanted side effects. Although this seems challenging, it should be noted that iron chelator chemistry is becoming increasingly sophisticated and compounds can be tailor made for various applications.

From an earlier post by Laura: "These conditions require attention because iron may amplify the toxic effect of alcohol and viruses, accelerating the evolution towards fibrosis and cirrhosis."

This is pretty serious stuff! As my weight is still around 50 kilos, I guess I can go and see whether I'm allowed to donate blood, so that my ferritin levels could drop. I will also be looking into EDTA. Any input anyone may have on this/my results is welcome, because I'm not sure if I'm understanding my bloodtest results that well.

 

[Chu]

This is pretty serious stuff! As my weight is still around 50 kilos, I guess I can go and see whether I'm allowed to donate blood, so that my ferritin levels could drop. I will also be looking into EDTA.

They don't weigh you at the blood center, AFAIK. So, it's hard to tell the difference between 49 and 53 kgs, if you know what I mean. Maybe that day you are wearing heavy clothes, you have water retention, PMS...

 

[Chu]

For those of you who might have the adequate training, this company sells the donation kits:

_http://www.genesisbps.com/therapeutic-phlebotomy.html

(See "Terumo Dry Collection Bag")

Apparently, they ship them only to the US.

 

[Oxajil]

This is pretty serious stuff! As my weight is still around 50 kilos, I guess I can go and see whether I'm allowed to donate blood, so that my ferritin levels could drop. I will also be looking into EDTA.

They don't weigh you at the blood center, AFAIK. So, it's hard to tell the difference between 49 and 53 kgs, if you know what I mean. Maybe that day you are wearing heavy clothes, you have water retention, PMS...

Ah good to know! Thanks Ailén.

 

[tohuwabohu]

I had a dream the other night. As Ark and I were leaving
the park in my dream, I looked up and saw a mosaic on the
side of the mountain. It had seven sharks, one above the
other, the lowest being pale almost to the point of
transparency, and the highest being very dark and intense
in color. There was a HUGE sperm whale to the upper left,
he was in the posture of whipping around, his eye had
caught {sight of} the sharks, and his mouth was open and he was going
to swallow them all in a single gulp. What was the
meaning of the whale and the sharks?

A: Logic.

Q: Are you telling me to use logic, or that the meaning IS
logic?

A: Logic says to you: examine!

Q: The other part of the dream was that I disappeared and
reemerged from a cleft in a rock. I was cleaning... he
went to investigate... and he returned and was crying and
all this water was flowing out of there like a spring...
What was the significance of this?

A: Trace minerals interact with deeply held secrets.

OMG I can't believe how simple it is. No I am not talking about decantations, I am talking about the dream with seven sharks and one big sperm whale. I was pondering on this thing since I saw it. And it is like this.
The seven sharks represent seven densities, with more and more dark color representing more and more sovereignity or freedom. Imagine there is a big white sperm whale if you wish that comes and swallows them once upon a time. The whale is nothing else as the Wave/unity/everything that is. The thing is that every being evolves and learns and thus given time the being doesn't fit in the density where it is. So what to do? Yes there is a way through the fifth density but what about more 'elegant' way? So here it is. When the wave comes, for some short time period (the Cs would say for a moment that would seem to last forever) all the densities are merged together. What happens when the densities are "open"? Well I actually think that every being can then naturally merge/blend/join with the density corresponding to the vibration/(state of being) of the being. Afterwards the densities are again delimited by the vibration bands. Isn't it pretty logical and elegant way how to re-equilibrate everything that is? It reminds me of a big mixer with big blades. The wave is actually the blade and it comes and goes again and again but instead of mixing things the wave reestablishes equilibrium. Like minimizes the potential that is created by the entropy and creation. You know like sorting apples to apples and oranges to oranges etc. So now I am in awe just how beautiful the universe is. And simple indeed. And I know that this is a great opportunity for all that are willing to learn and work on themselves to totaly naturally graduate to 4th density. Actually according to my model a being can skip a density just like some genial kids skip class in school. There is no limit. So some of us can go home if they wish so.
Oh and one more thing, yes I think that the body will be transformed by the wave and graduate also. But there is a catch. The body has to be ready for the transformation. And here I am at loss what it means but I suspect that the minerals play important role in all this. But this is for someone else to find out.
I wish you all that when the wave comes, you will be ready, and live in love and happiness in the green world. Maybe if the one infinite creator wishes so we all will meet there and fight together and learn together and live together. That would be so nice. C you soon.

 

[Laura]

While I was reading through Dr. Weinberg's book on iron today (found out why my back pain got worse after bringing my ferritin down - it's a temporary reaction because of the kind of damage my arthritis has done to my bones), I came across the following on eyes:

"Iron can damage vision in several ways. In a study in rats, exposure to iron particulates in the atmosphere was found to be cytotoxic to lens tissue.

He earlier tells a story about two young adults who both died of terrible cancer of the lungs and whose mother had been a "polisher of screws and bolts" working at home using iron oxide in the polishing process.

"In another investigation, iron accumulation was correlated with retinal neurodegeneration. In aceruloplasminemia, and inherited condition in which there is an absence or abnormally low amount of circulating ceruloplasmin, peripheral retinal degeneration is a consequence. Iron depends upon ceruloplasmin for normal transport, and when the protein is absent or insufficient, iron delivery is flawed.

"Candida albicans, a fungus responsible for candidiasis infections has been detected in the eyes of patients with cataracts. Candida is suppressed by lactoferrin, an iron-binding protein found in human secretions such as tears. In Sjogren's Disease, body fluids such as saliva and tear production are diminished. Since lactoferrin is contained in these fluids, patients with Sjogren's can have less lactoferrin and possibly have and increased incidence of candidiasis infection on the lens of the eyes.

"In age-related macular degenration, increased iron levels have been found during autopsy. ... The difference is significant."

So, it's looking like lactoferrin and EDTA are good iron un-loaders for those who have no other options.

 

[Gaby]

He earlier tells a story about two young adults who both died of terrible cancer of the lungs and whose mother had been a "polisher of screws and bolts" working at home using iron oxide in the polishing process.

"In another investigation, iron accumulation was correlated with retinal neurodegeneration. In aceruloplasminemia, and inherited condition in which there is an absence or abnormally low amount of circulating ceruloplasmin, peripheral retinal degeneration is a consequence. Iron depends upon ceruloplasmin for normal transport, and when the protein is absent or insufficient, iron delivery is flawed.

"Candida albicans, a fungus responsible for candidiasis infections has been detected in the eyes of patients with cataracts. Candida is suppressed by lactoferrin, an iron-binding protein found in human secretions such as tears. In Sjogren's Disease, body fluids such as saliva and tear production are diminished. Since lactoferrin is contained in these fluids, patients with Sjogren's can have less lactoferrin and possibly have and increased incidence of candidiasis infection on the lens of the eyes.

"In age-related macular degenration, increased iron levels have been found during autopsy. ... The difference is significant."

So, it's looking like lactoferrin and EDTA are good iron un-loaders for those who have no other options.

Ever since I read that I had the opportunity to ask some lung cancer patients in what did they used to work.

3 out of 3 people worked in mechanics - iron related jobs. They drilled and stuff like that, and there were always iron and other metal-particles around. And they didn't used any protection! So mystery solved, it was not the smoking!

That book is pretty handy despite some questionable information regarding tobacco... It says that 42% report a worsening of joint pain after initial phlebotomy. 32% stays the same and 27% get better. Without saying exactly why, he does say that once the joints are calcified, de-ironing procedures often do not lead to amelioration of joint pain.

The algorithms and charts in the book can be found at:

http://www.irondisorders.org/forms/

There are also several articles in their website as well.

This one is particularly helpful, it also has the iron panel comparison:

http://www.irondisorders.org/Websites/idi/files/Content/854256/HHC%20ALL2011.pdf

 

[tohuwabohu]

So, it's looking like lactoferrin and EDTA are good iron un-loaders for those who have no other options.

and working out.

 

[Gaby]

Weinberg's book and the resources at http://www.irondisorders.org/ do a great job in explaining the information. I haven't read the Iron Elephant book yet, but I already got a pretty good idea of what the numbers say and each parameter. So with that, I'm going to start looking closer to people and their panels. I already started recommending blood donations because "you got too much ironed blood". Understandably, no one was looking forward to it. But with the book, I now have a better idea of what to say to encourage this last step.

Here are my results:

Iron 101 (range 37-145)
Transferrin 240 (185-405)
Ferritin 79 (10-160)
HDL cholesterol 101 (46-100)
LDL cholesterol 111.8 (65-175)
Triglycerides 76 (0-200)

So I'm going back to my vitamin C routine and will cut some extra carbs and coffee I've been having. I need to up my fatty intake too!

Even when almost everybody I have seen as of late has had an infectious disease of some sort, I haven't fallen sick. Not even when I feel weakened by poor sleep or inflamed. I also found out that my tuberculosis contact test is abnormal in the sense that it is still negative. Apparently it is rather common for the staff here to have it positive. But perhaps I'm speaking too soon.

I have a Caucasian-Oriental mix. Hybrid vigour of mixed races? I guess I'll find out when the plague arrives!

 

[monotonic]

I saw sodium erythorbate on a package of bacon and looked it up. This may be important for bacon-lovers:

A later study found that erythorbic acid is a potent enhancer of nonheme-iron absorption.

 

[Galaxia2002]

I need some help with my results, please

Hemoglobin: 14,5
Heritrocite: 40,9
TIBC: 156 range (155 - 300)
% Iron saturation : 65,4 % (0 -20)
Serum Iron 102,0 (35 -140)

after two weeks they give me the other part of the analysis from the same sample ( I don't know why lasted so long):

ferritin : 158 ng/mL
transferrin 2,0 g/L range (2,0 - 4,0)

I am confused because in the results given the first week the % iron saturation is high, but using the formula given by oxajil

[(serum iron (µmol/l) : 25) / transferrin (g/l)] x 100% (Gambino, 1997)

when I put the values after transform it into the right units, I get 37 % of transferrin saturation. So I don't know who believe!. So "transferrin" seems to be a direct measure of transferrin, which I would think to be more exact, but I don't know.

from wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_iron-binding_capacity

Total iron-binding capacity (TIBC) is a medical laboratory test that measures the blood's capacity to bind iron with transferrin.[1] It is performed by drawing blood and measuring the maximum amount of iron that it can carry, which indirectly measures transferrin[2] since transferrin is the most dynamic carrier. TIBC is less expensive than a direct measurement of transferrin.

From
https://chronicillnessrecovery.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=192

Transferrin

The transferrin test is a direct measurement of transferrin--which is also called siderophilin--levels in the blood. Some laboratories prefer this measurement to the TIBC. The saturation level of the transferrin can be calculated by dividing the serum iron level by the TIBC.

It is customary to test for transferrin (instead of TIBC) when evaluating a patient's nutritional status or liver function. Because it is made in the liver, transferrin will be low with liver disease. Transferrin levels also drop when there is not enough protein in the diet, so this test can be used to monitor nutrition.

Transferrin saturation

Normal transferrin saturation is 20-50%. As an index of iron transport rather than storage, this measure (calculated from serum iron and TIBC) is an alternative to serum ferritin. However, as it’s affected by the same confounding factors it will not add much additional information regarding iron deficiency if a serum ferritin test has already been ordered. A serum transferrin saturation of >55% can be a very useful indication of possible iron overload. On the other hand, if serum ferritin is elevated but transferrin saturation is low, the patient is unlikely to have iron overload.

 

[aragorn]

I'm going to have my iron levels tested next week. Since fasting is required (12 hours prior to the test), I'm wondering if smoking prior to the test could have any effect on the results? A search on the Internet gives mixed results.

I agree, that all these different markers to calculate your iron levels are confusing. Which are essential? My health care provider initially agreed to only test for serum iron (fS-Fe) and serum ferritin (S-Ferrit), but I've insisted that they should include TIBC and serum transferrin (StFr), but the doctor hasn't yet "ruled" on the matter.