Historical Events Database - History

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

Get well soon, Laura.

I'm improving. Lots of horse chestnut cream with DMSO, FIR saunas alternating with ice-cold soaks of the legs. Not fun, but necessary. And take a warning: no matter how good your diet is, if you spend 15 or more hours a day at your desk, your legs won't like it a bit.

I hope you are much better soon, Laura.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

I included a couple of events from Kronk's Cometography into database. They are from first century BC (years -86 to -3), sixth century (years 500 to 588) and ninth century (821 to 836). Most of them are concerning comets but some are about other topics. I did not change entries from other users; I just entered duplicate marks.

Please feel free to change and delete any of them.

I plan to include more entries for the ninth century from Kronk's Cometography, The Annals of Fulda and The Annals of St-Bertin. There was "something going on" then. There was a flood in Frisia with land lost to sea forever, a lot of earthquakes (especially at Mainz), comets were seen and the Vikings decided to raid Francia at the same time. This events were on top of the quarrelling of the descendant of Charlemagne and the usual wars...

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I included a couple of events from Kronk's Cometography into database. They are from first century BC (years -86 to -3), sixth century (years 500 to 588) and ninth century (821 to 836). Most of them are concerning comets but some are about other topics. I did not change entries from other users; I just entered duplicate marks.

Please feel free to change and delete any of them.

Carry on. Just be sure to sort by date and don't do double entries on the same item. I guess you've all noticed how much better Kronk's book is than any of the others.

I plan to include more entries for the ninth century from Kronk's Cometography, The Annals of Fulda and The Annals of St-Bertin. There was "something going on" then. There was a flood in Frisia with land lost to sea forever, a lot of earthquakes (especially at Mainz), comets were seen and the Vikings decided to raid Francia at the same time. This events were on top of the quarrelling of the descendant of Charlemagne and the usual wars...

Since Kronk is available for all, let's just get it all in. If you are working on a particular period, concentrate on that and try to get a real feel for it.

I've been reading and editing Pierre's fantastic new book that I hope we can get out asap because it sure puts the whole thing in perspective and provides the "education" needed to understand exactly what was going on and what IS going on.

I got Pseudo-Methodius today and "An Alexandrian World Chronicle" so will be reading them at bedtime. Meanwhile, as soon as I finish this editing, I'll go over all the John Malalas entries and make sure they are as complete as they should be. I've finished Paul the Deacon and Gregory of Tours.

I'm thinking that what we will do when all this is finished is just simply publish it as a Chronicle so I hope that notes and texts are set up properly so we can just tell the database where to put stuff and have it all organized with little need for much re-working or additions.

 

[Anthony]

Re: Historical Events Database

I included a couple of events from Kronk's Cometography into database. They are from first century BC (years -86 to -3), sixth century (years 500 to 588) and ninth century (821 to 836). Most of them are concerning comets but some are about other topics. I did not change entries from other users; I just entered duplicate marks.

Please feel free to change and delete any of them.

Carry on. Just be sure to sort by date and don't do double entries on the same item. I guess you've all noticed how much better Kronk's book is than any of the others.

I plan to include more entries for the ninth century from Kronk's Cometography, The Annals of Fulda and The Annals of St-Bertin. There was "something going on" then. There was a flood in Frisia with land lost to sea forever, a lot of earthquakes (especially at Mainz), comets were seen and the Vikings decided to raid Francia at the same time. This events were on top of the quarrelling of the descendant of Charlemagne and the usual wars...

Since Kronk is available for all, let's just get it all in. If you are working on a particular period, concentrate on that and try to get a real feel for it.

I've been reading and editing Pierre's fantastic new book that I hope we can get out asap because it sure puts the whole thing in perspective and provides the "education" needed to understand exactly what was going on and what IS going on.

I got Pseudo-Methodius today and "An Alexandrian World Chronicle" so will be reading them at bedtime. Meanwhile, as soon as I finish this editing, I'll go over all the John Malalas entries and make sure they are as complete as they should be. I've finished Paul the Deacon and Gregory of Tours.

I'm thinking that what we will do when all this is finished is just simply publish it as a Chronicle so I hope that notes and texts are set up properly so we can just tell the database where to put stuff and have it all organized with little need for much re-working or additions.

Good to know, I've noticed it mentioned a couple of times and I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


After reading "The Comet of 44 BC and Caesar's Funeral Games", which includes every scrap of info from ancient sources, I decided that I need to go through Pliny the Elder's "Natural History" with some care. What I found yesterday/last night was a very interesting discussion about the Thunderbolts problem that I've mentioned a few times. It might help us with better categorization. Before I transcribe Pliny's remarks about it, let me include a snippet from Pierre's upcoming book:

Actual measurements of the intensity of the total geomagnetic field began in Gauss’s observatories in 1840. Since then, its intensity has been continually decreasing at a rate of 6.3% per century. At this rate the intensity of the field will reach 0 in 1,600 years. This trend has been confirmed by studies of the magnetization in ancient clay pots, showing that the Earth’s magnetic field was approximately twice as strong in Roman times. (See: www.geomag.bgs.ac.uk/education/reversals.html)

I don't know if it relates directly, what I do think is that the EM conditions on our planet may have been very different during those times and thus we may find descriptions of things in ancient sources that are impossible to explain according to how things are now. So we need to keep an open mind when reading some of these sources.

II.xviii: Most men are not acquainted with a truth known to the founders of the science (Etruscans) from their arduous study of the heavens, that what when they fall to earth are termed thunderbolts are the fires of the three upper planets, particularly those of Jupiter, which is in the middle position - possibly because it voids in this way the charge of excessive moisture from the upper circle (of Saturn) and of excessive heat from the circle below (of Mars); and this is the origin of the myth that thunderbolts are the javelins hurled by Jupiter. Consequently heavenly fire is spit forth by the planet as crackling charcoal flies from a burning log, bringing prophecies with it, as even the part of himself that he discards does not cease to function in its divine tasks. And this is accompanied by a very great disturbance of the air...

Pliny then goes on to talk about the distances of the planets from the earth. Keep in mind that he is operating with the Aristotelian model of spheres within spheres which is sorta like this:

What occurs to me is that ancient experts that Pliny cited, the Etruscans, may have understood something that didn't get transmitted very clearly because this world model reminds me very much of the different charge layers of the sun-earth circuit within the Earth's atmosphere. Another snip from Pierre's book:

Together, the upper and lower parts of the Earth’s atmosphere might be thought of as its insulating bubble, its Double Layer (DL). The ionosphere extends from a height of about 50 km to over 500 km . This region is highly ionized compared to the lower atmosphere because of its direct interaction with solar radiation. Solar particles ionize the molecules of the ionosphere, which are mostly gaseous in nature. In fact, it’s because of these ions that the upper part of the atmosphere is called the ionosphere.

The net electric charge of the ionosphere is positive. Since the Earth’s net electric charge is negative , a vertical electric field exists within the atmosphere between the ionosphere and the Earth’s surface. ....the atmospheric electric field is, on average, equal to 100 volts per meter, although it’s stronger at the equator and decreases with latitude.

Why, you may be wondering, if such a vertical electric field exists in the atmosphere, don’t we get electrocuted? The air around our heads, after all, has an electric potential that is about 180 volts higher than our feet. One reason is that despite the strong difference in electric potential, the current density in air is extremely small, about 10-12 amperes per square meter. So the current flow resulting from this strong electric field is, most of the time, almost imperceptible.

What I'm suggesting is that the Etruscans, when they talked about the "region of the planets", were talking about charge layers even if they didn't actually have a full understanding of the phenomenon themselves. (They may have, but mostly, I think, what they had were long observations and were attempting to explain things.)

Pliny then describes how Pythagoras explained the same phenomenon:

II.xx: Pythagoras draws on the theory of music, and designates the distance between the earth and the moon as a whole tone, that between the moon and Mercury a semitone, between Mercury and Venus the same, between her and the sun a tone and a half, between the sun and Mars a tone (the same as the distance between the earth and the moon), between Mars and Jupiter half a tone, between Jupiter and Saturn half a tone, between Saturn and the zodiac a tone and a half: the seven tones thus producing the so-called diapason {all the notes in the scale played successively, not a harmony in the modern sense.} ... a refinement more entertaining than convincing.

I think it is possible that Pythagoras was trying to say the same thing - tones being frequencies, and utilizing them as an analog for charge.

II.xxi: Posidonius holds that mists and winds and clouds reach to a hetight of not less than 5 miles from the earth...

What is pretty clear is that the discussion is about atmospherice phenomena and Pliny is just simply gathering all the sources on the topic together.

Pliny then goes off to discuss comets and, for the most part, they are comets, meteors, bolides, etc. But then he says:

II.xxxvii: Stars also come into existence at sea and on land. I have seen a radiance of star-like appearance clinging to the javelins of soldiers on sentry duty at night in front of the rampart; and on a voyage stars alight on the yards and other parts of the ship, with a sound resembling a voice, hopping from perch to perch in the manner of birds. These when they come singly are disastrously heavy and wreck ships, and if they fall into the hold burn them up. If there are two of them, they denote safety and portend a successful voyage; and their approach is said to put to flight the terrible star called Helena: for this reason they are called Castor and Pollux... They also shine around men's heads at evening time; this is a great portent. All these things admit of no certain explanation...

Now, it seems that he is describing St. Elmo's fire here.

St Elmo’s fire can be described as a more or less continuous, luminous electrical discharge in the atmosphere, which emanates from elevated objects above the Earth’s surface. (http://www.howitworksdaily.com/environment/what-is-st-elmo%E2%80%99s-fire/)

Scientists aren't sure what the phenomenon is, but experiments suggest the balls of fire may not actually be lightning. (http://whatisnewwhatiscool.blogspot.fr/2010/07/artificial-st-elmos-fire-created.html)

Apparently, it occurs when there is a significant imbalance in electrical charge in the atmosphere, causing molecules to tear apart, sometimes accompanied by hissing or chirping sounds. The phenomenon that causes St. Elmo's Fire is a dramatic difference in charge between the air and a charged object. That charged object could be almost anything.

Physically, St. Elmo's fire is a bright blue or violet glow, appearing like fire in some circumstances, from tall, sharply pointed structures such as lightning rods, masts, spires and chimneys, and on aircraft wings. St. Elmo's fire can also appear on leaves, grass, and even at the tips of cattle horns.[4] Often accompanying the glow is a distinct hissing or buzzing sound. ... In ancient Greece, the appearance of a single one was called Helena and two were called Castor and Pollux. (http://www.electricuniverse.info/St_Elmo%27s_fire)

What strikes me is that we live in a world where there is a lot of communication, but St. Elmo's Fire is described as a rare phenomenon. See here: http://sweeneyseas.com/tag/st-elmos-fire/

This year I witnessed an amazing weather phenomenon that I have been curious about for years, St. Elmos Fire. Most people have never heard of this mysterious electrical energy.

However, it appears, from the way it was discussed by the ancients in their severely circumscribed reality, to have been rather common. That suggests that there were more differences between then and now than just a doubled magnetic field of the earth. And for all we know, there is a correlation.

Anyway, Pliny comes back to thunderbolts:

II.xxxviii: Now the remaining noteworthy facts as to the heavens: for the name 'heaven' was also given by our ancestors to this which is otherwise designated 'air' - the whole of that apparently empty space which pours forth this breath of life. This region below the moon, and a long way below it (as I notice is almost universally agreed), blends together an unlimited quantity from the upper element of air and an unlimited quantity of terrestrial vapour, being a combination of both orders. From it come clouds, thunder-claps and also thunder-bolts, hail, frost, rain, storms and whirlwinds; from it come most of mortals' misfortunes, and the warfare between the element of nature. ...

Thus as nature swings to and fro like a kind of sling, discord is kindled by the velocity of the world's motion. Nor is the battle allowed to stand still, but is continually carried up and whirled round, displaying in an immense globe that encircles the world the causes of things, continually overspreading another and another heaven interwoven with the clouds. This is the realm of the winds. Consequently their nature is here pre-eminent, and almost includes all the rest of the phenomena caused by the air, as most men attribute the hurling of thunderbolts and lightning to the winds' violence, and indeed hold that the cause of the rain of stones that sometimes occurs is that the stones are caught up by the wind; and likewise many other things.

II.xliii: Consequently I would not go against the view that it is also possible for the fires of stars to fall from above into the clouds (as we often see happen in fine weather, and the impact of these fires unquestionably shakes the air since even weapons when flung make a hissing noise); and that when they reach the cloud, a hissing steam is produced, just as when red-hot iron is plunged into water, and a coil of smoke whirls up. And I agree that these produce storms, and if there is wind or steam struggling in the cloud, it gives out claps of thunder, if it bursts out on fire, flashes of lightning, if it forces its way on a longer track, heat-lightning. The latter cleaves the cloud, the flashes burst through it, and thunderclaps are the blows of the fires colliding, causing fiery cracks at once to flash out in the clouds.

It is also possible for breath emerging from the earth, when pressed down by the counter-impact of the stars, to be checked by a cloud and so cause thunder, nature choking down the sound while the struggle goes on but the crash sounding when the breath bursts out, as when a skin is stretched by being blown into. It is also possible for this breath, whatever it is, to be set on fire by the friction during its headlong progress. It is also possible for it to be struck out by the impact of the clouds, as by that of two stones, with heat-lightning flashing out like sparks. But all these occurrences are accidental - they cause mere senseless and ineffectual thunder-claps, as their coming obeys no principle of nature - they merely cleave mountains and seas, and all their other blows are ineffectual; but the former {the fire of stars that fall into clouds and shake the air mentioned at the beginning of the passage} are prophetical and sent from on high, they come by fixed causes and from their own stars.

Pliny goes off on a discussion of "regular" winds (N, S, E, W) and then:

II.xlix: Now as to sudden blasts, which arise as has been said from exhalations of the earth, and fall back again to the earth drawing over it an envelope of cloud; these occur in a variety of forms. The fact is that their onrush is quite irregular, like that of mountain torrents... and they give forth thunder and lightning. ... they produce a storm called by the Greeks a cloudburst; but if they break out from a downward curve of cloud with a more limited rotation, they cause a whirl unaccompanied by fire - I mean lightning - that is called a typhoon, which denotes a whirling cloudburst. ...it is specially disastrous to navigators... The same whirlwind when beaten back by its very impact snatches things up and carries them back with it to the sky, sucking them high aloft.

II.l: But if it bursts out of a larger cavern of downward pressing cloud but not so wide a one as in the case of a storm, and is accompanied by a crashing noise, this is what they call a whirlwind, which over throws everything in its neighbourhood. When the same rages hotter and with a fiery flow, it is called a prester, as while sweeping away the things it comes in contact with it also scorches them up.

n. 1. A meteor or exhalation formerly supposed to be thrown from the clouds with such violence that by collision it is set on fire. A scorching whirlwind.

II.l cont: But a typhoon does not occur with a northerly wind, nor a cloudburst with snow or when snow is lying. If it flared up as soon as it burst the cloud, and had fire in it, did not catch fire afterwards, it is a thunderbolt.

It differs from a fiery pillar in the way in which a flame differs from a fire: a fiery pillar spreads out its blast widely, whereas a thunderbolt masses together its onrush. On the other hand a tornado differs from a whirlwind by returning, and as a whizz differs from a crash; a storm is different from either it its extent - it is cause by the scattering rather than the bursting of a cloud. There also occurs a darkness caused by a cloud shaped like a wild monster - this is direful to sailors. There is also what is called a column, when densified and stiffened moisture raises itself aloft; in the same class also is a waterspout, when a cloud draws up water like a pipe.

II.li: Thunderbolts are rare in winter and in summer, from opposite causes. {Extreme heat overall, or extreme cold overall.} ...But in spring and autumn thunderbolts are more frequent, their summer and winters causes being combined in each of those seasons: this explains why they are frequent in Italy, where the milder winter and stormy summer make the air more mobile, and it is always somewhat vernal or autumnal. Also in the parts of Italy that slope down from the north towards th warmth, such as the district of Rome and the Campagna, lightning occurs in winter juast as in summer, which does not happen in any other locality.

II.lii: Of thunderbolts themselves several varieties are reported. Those that come with a dry flash do not cause a fire but an explosion. The smoky ones do not burn but blacken. There is a third sort called 'bright thunderbolts,' of an extremely remarkable nature: this kind drains casks dry without damaging their lids and without leaving any other trace, and melts gold and copper and silver in their bags without singeing the bags themselves at all, and even without melting the wax seal. Marcia, a lady of high station at Rome, was struck when pregnant, and though the child was killed, she herself survived without being otherwise injured. Among the portents in connexion with Catiline, a town-councillor of Pompei named Marcus Herennius was struck by a thunderbolt on a fine day. {The translator exchanges "lightning" here, but it is obvious that there is a definite difference between lightning and thunderbolts, so I have restored the obviously intended word.}

II.liii: The Tuscan writers hold the view that there are nine gods who send thunderbolts... Only two of these deities have been retained by the Romans, who attribute thunderbolts in the daytime to Jupiter and those in the night to Summanus, the latter being naturally rare because the sky at night is colder. Tuscany believes that some also burst out of the ground, which it calls 'low bolts,' and that these are rendered exceptionally direful and accursed by the season of winter, though all the bolts that they believe of earthly origin are not the ordinary ones and do not come from the stars but from the nearer and more disordered element: a clear proof of this being that all those coming from the upper heaven deliver slanting blows, whereas these which they call earthly strike straight. ...

Those who pursue these enquiries with more subtlety think that these bolts come from the planet Saturn, just as the inflammatory ones come from Mars, as for instance, when Bolsena, the richest town in Tuscany, was entirely burnt up by a thunderbolt. Also the first ones that occur after a man sets up house for himself are called 'family meteors,' as foretelling his fortune for the whole of his life. ...

II.liv: Historical record also exists of thunderbolts being either caused by or vouchsafed in answer to certain rites and prayers. There is an old story of the latter in Tuscany, when the portent which they called Olta came to the city of Bolsena, when its territory had been devastated; it was sent in answer to the prayer of its king Porsina. Also before his time, as is recorded on the reliable authority of Lucius Piso in his Annals I, this was frequently practised by Numa, though when Tullus Hostilius copied him with incorrect ritual he was struck by a thunderbolt. {Again, I have restored the word.} ... It takes a bold man to believe that Nature obeys the behests of ritual, and equally it takes a dull man to deny that ritual has beneficent powers, when knowledge has made such progress even in the interpretation of thunderbolts that it can prophecy that others will come on a fixed day. ...

II.lv: It is certain that when thunder and lightning occur simultaneously, the flash is seen before the thunderclap is heard (this not being surprising, as light travels more swiftly than sound); but that Nature so regulates the stroke of a thunderbolt and the sound of the thunder that they occur together although the sound is caused by the bolt starting, not striking; moreover that the current of air travels faster than the bolt, and that consequently the object always is shaken and feels the blast before it is struck; and that nobody hit has ever seen the lightning or heard the thunder in advance.

II.lvi: ... In Italy in the time of the Caesarian war people ceased to build towers between Terracina and the Temple of Feronia, as every tower there was destroyed by lightning.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Curious thing: transcribed the following from Pliny:

Pliny the Elder, Natural History, II.xxii: There are also stars that suddenly come to birth in the heaven itself; of these there are several kinds. The Greeks call them 'comets,' in our language 'long-haired stars,' because they have a blood-red shock of what looks like shaggy hair at their top. The Greeks also give the name of 'bearded stars' to those from whose lower part spreads a mane resembling a long beard.

'Javelin-stars' quiver like a dart; these are a very terrible portent. To this class belongs the comet about which Titus Imperator Caesar in his 5th consulship wrote an account in his famous poem, that being its latest appearance, down to the present day. The same stars when shorter and sloping to a point have been called 'Daggers'; these are the palest of all in colour, and have a gleam like the flash of a sword, and no rays, which even the Quoit-star which resembles its name in appearance but is in colour like amber, emits in scattered form from its edge.

The 'Tub-star' presents the shape of a cask with a smoky light all round it. The 'Horned-star' has the shape of a horn, like the one that appeared when Greece fought the decisive battle of Salamis. The 'Torch-star' resembles glowing torches, the 'Horse-star' horses' manes in very rapid motion and revolving in a circle.

There also occurs a shining comet whose silvery tresses glow so brightly that it is scarcely possible to look at it, and which displays within it a shape in the likeness of a man's countenance. {FN: perhaps should be emended to 'a shining comet called Zeus's Comet.'}

There also occur 'Goat comets,' enringed with a sort of cloud resembling tufts of hair. Once hitherto it has happened that a 'Mane-shaped' comet changed into a spear; this was in the 108th Olympiad, A.U.C 408. The shortest period of visibility on record for a comet is 7 days, the longest 80.

Anyway, since those Long-haired Franks and Langobards (Long Beards) are so troublesome in historical terms, one can't help but make a connection here.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

dirgni!!! What are you doing???

There are FIVE entries for Caesar's comet and three of them are by you!

If it is the SAME event and it is like 99% certain, just add the further testimonies in the text quote box, with source in parentheses!!!!!

PLEASE SORT BY DATE AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT DUPLICATING ENTRIES!!!

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Historical Events Database

Anyway, since those Long-haired Franks and Langobards (Long Beards) are so troublesome in historical terms, one can't help but make a connection here.

There may be a parallel in Mesopotamian (where kings and gods have long pointed beards) and Egyptian history (wigs look like comets). I found a site where the author tries to argue that big battles in Egyptian iconography are celestial battles. The images are interresting at the least: _http://www.gks.uk.com/catastrophe-ancient-egypt/

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

dirgni!!! What are you doing???

There are FIVE entries for Caesar's comet and three of them are by you!

If it is the SAME event and it is like 99% certain, just add the further testimonies in the text quote box, with source in parentheses!!!!!

PLEASE SORT BY DATE AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT DUPLICATING ENTRIES!!!

OK - I have to clean up Yeoman - Kronk duplicates.
If Kronk has for the same comet parts for China - Korea and Europe is this 3 entries or one?
If it is one entry - then I have to clean, too.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

dirgni!!! What are you doing???

There are FIVE entries for Caesar's comet and three of them are by you!

If it is the SAME event and it is like 99% certain, just add the further testimonies in the text quote box, with source in parentheses!!!!!

PLEASE SORT BY DATE AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT DUPLICATING ENTRIES!!!

OK - I have to clean up Yeoman - Kronk duplicates.
If Kronk has for the same comet parts for China - Korea and Europe is this 3 entries or one?
If it is one entry - then I have to clean, too.

It is one if it is the same comet. Or strongly assumed to be the same comet.

I've taken care of the Caesar comet entries.

 

[Mike]

Re: Historical Events Database

What I'm suggesting is that the Etruscans, when they talked about the "region of the planets", were talking about charge layers even if they didn't actually have a full understanding of the phenomenon themselves. (They may have, but mostly, I think, what they had were long observations and were attempting to explain things.)

Pliny then describes how Pythagoras explained the same phenomenon:

II.xx: Pythagoras draws on the theory of music, and designates the distance between the earth and the moon as a whole tone, that between the moon and Mercury a semitone, between Mercury and Venus the same, between her and the sun a tone and a half, between the sun and Mars a tone (the same as the distance between the earth and the moon), between Mars and Jupiter half a tone, between Jupiter and Saturn half a tone, between Saturn and the zodiac a tone and a half: the seven tones thus producing the so-called diapason {all the notes in the scale played successively, not a harmony in the modern sense.} ... a refinement more entertaining than convincing.

I think it is possible that Pythagoras was trying to say the same thing - tones being frequencies, and utilizing them as an analog for charge.

II.xxi: Posidonius holds that mists and winds and clouds reach to a hetight of not less than 5 miles from the earth...

What is pretty clear is that the discussion is about atmospherice phenomena and Pliny is just simply gathering all the sources on the topic together.

The description about Pythagoras and tones reminded me of Gurdjieff's 'Ray of Creation' and law of the octaves. Maybe information was passed down in schools and lost the true meaning and changed to a more esoteric description?

Pliny then goes off to discuss comets and, for the most part, they are comets, meteors, bolides, etc. But then he says:

II.xxxvii: Stars also come into existence at sea and on land. I have seen a radiance of star-like appearance clinging to the javelins of soldiers on sentry duty at night in front of the rampart; and on a voyage stars alight on the yards and other parts of the ship, with a sound resembling a voice, hopping from perch to perch in the manner of birds. These when they come singly are disastrously heavy and wreck ships, and if they fall into the hold burn them up. If there are two of them, they denote safety and portend a successful voyage; and their approach is said to put to flight the terrible star called Helena: for this reason they are called Castor and Pollux... They also shine around men's heads at evening time; this is a great portent. All these things admit of no certain explanation...

The bolded part made me instantly think of halos as seen in art. Wikipedia give an overview of the appearance of halo (and similar phenomena in other cultures, etc) in art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(religious_iconography)

Just some pure speculation - could a person's esoteric development (ie connection to higher centers) change there charge (?) or susceptibility to the phenomena described by Pliny. Or was it that since it was seen as a great portent that individuals that were glorified in art were decorated with a depiction of the phenomena.

Pliny the Elder, Natural History, II.xxii: There are also stars that suddenly come to birth in the heaven itself; of these there are several kinds. The Greeks call them 'comets,' in our language 'long-haired stars,' because they have a blood-red shock of what looks like shaggy hair at their top. The Greeks also give the name of 'bearded stars' to those from whose lower part spreads a mane resembling a long beard.

'Javelin-stars' quiver like a dart; these are a very terrible portent. To this class belongs the comet about which Titus Imperator Caesar in his 5th consulship wrote an account in his famous poem, that being its latest appearance, down to the present day. The same stars when shorter and sloping to a point have been called 'Daggers'; these are the palest of all in colour, and have a gleam like the flash of a sword, and no rays, which even the Quoit-star which resembles its name in appearance but is in colour like amber, emits in scattered form from its edge.

The 'Tub-star' presents the shape of a cask with a smoky light all round it. The 'Horned-star' has the shape of a horn, like the one that appeared when Greece fought the decisive battle of Salamis. The 'Torch-star' resembles glowing torches, the 'Horse-star' horses' manes in very rapid motion and revolving in a circle.

There also occurs a shining comet whose silvery tresses glow so brightly that it is scarcely possible to look at it, and which displays within it a shape in the likeness of a man's countenance. {FN: perhaps should be emended to 'a shining comet called Zeus's Comet.'}

There also occur 'Goat comets,' enringed with a sort of cloud resembling tufts of hair. Once hitherto it has happened that a 'Mane-shaped' comet changed into a spear; this was in the 108th Olympiad, A.U.C 408. The shortest period of visibility on record for a comet is 7 days, the longest 80.

What is also interesting is the sky (heavens) must have been so much more active and active electrically in ancient times for there to be so many different descriptions.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Let me say this again to avoid confusion:

We make multiple entries for events that have multiple ASPECTS or CONSEQUENCES. But no multiple entries for the same, single thing.

If an earthquake is accompanied by a tsunami, fire, high death toll, each gets its own entry.

Ten sources all talking about the same comet do NOT each get their own entry.

We sorta worked it out that when we can't be SURE about an event, and there are several sources talking about something similar, we put them separately but we note our suspicion that they are doublets or triplets in the field where you note such things. For example, the events described in Rome by Paul the Deacon and the same story told from a different perspective by Gregory of Tours. The ascribed dates on the two events were different, but I gave each a separate entry, with the same date with margin, and explained why I had done so in the notes field.

If you just open up some of my entries, (click edit and just look/see) see how I'm doing them, scroll through the time sorted database and see how things are being ordered, you'll be able to pick it up very easily.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

dirgni!!! What are you doing???

There are FIVE entries for Caesar's comet and three of them are by you!

If it is the SAME event and it is like 99% certain, just add the further testimonies in the text quote box, with source in parentheses!!!!!

PLEASE SORT BY DATE AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT DUPLICATING ENTRIES!!!

OK - I have to clean up Yeoman - Kronk duplicates.
If Kronk has for the same comet parts for China - Korea and Europe is this 3 entries or one?
If it is one entry - then I have to clean, too.

It is one if it is the same comet. Or strongly assumed to be the same comet.

I've taken care of the Caesar comet entries.

I will take care of the rest asap.Thank you for your clarification, Laura.

There are some entries, which describes the same in the same year but are from different historic sources:
examples:
entry 820 = entry 1233
entry 821 = entry 1232
entry 822 = entry 1230

Could you please check if I should keep the additional entry?

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I will take care of the rest asap.Thank you for your clarification, Laura.

There are some entries, which describes the same in the same year but are from different historic sources:
examples:
entry 820 = entry 1233

Actually, these two are from the same source: Gregory of Tours, History of the Franks, though you took it by way of Gary Kronk.

Your text:

The French text Historiae Ecclesiasticae Francorum Libri Decem (592) says,
"In the seventh year of King Childebert ... there were rains, lightnings, and great thunder-claps in the month of January. Trees blossomed; the star, which I have ... named comet, appeared in such a way that round about it there was a great blackness; it shone through the dark as if set in a cavity, glittering, and spreading abroad its hair. And there issued from it a tail of wondrous size which from afar appeared as the great smoke of a fire. It was seen in the western quarter of the heavens at the first hour of night."

My text:

In the seventh year of King Childebert’s reign… there were torrential downpours in the month of January, with flashes of lightning and heavy claps of thunder. The trees suddenly burst into flower. The star which I have described as a comet appeared again, and the sky seemed particularly black where it passed across the heavens. It shone through the darkness as if it were at the bottom of a hole, gleaming so bright and spreading wide its tail. From it there issued an enormous beam of light, which from a distance looked like the great pall of smoke over a conflagration. It appeared in the western sky during the first hour of darkness.

So, you see, they are the identical event.

I did state earlier in this thread that Gregory of Tours was DONE.

Same for these:

entry 821 = entry 1232
entry 822 = entry 1230

Could you please check if I should keep the additional entry?
[/quote]

Delete your entries. BUT, you did a good job with them!!!

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database



So, anybody, do not make entries from Gregory of Tours. He's done. Do not make entries that are sourced to Paul the Deacon; he's done. I'm working Pliny the Elder right now and soon he will be done. Then I will do Procopius unless someone else has started on him by then.

AGAIN, SORT BY DATE AND DO NOT DUPLICATE ENTRIES. It is best to use the ORIGINAL SOURCE IF POSSIBLE and then stack the additional repeats in the quote text box. Any notes in the "notes" box. NOTICE: when the document is printed, the material in the Quote box will be the TEXT and the material in the Notes box will become either additional commentary or footnotes, so make your text nice! If each entry is as perfect as it can be, when it is all sorted by date and printed out, it will be a stupendous book!