Historical Events Database - History
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
shijing
The Living Force
Re: Historical Events Database
Oops -- I actually went through yesterday and changed all the dates back to Yeomans, adding the 1 year variation. My thinking is that this will help to keep things consistent, since Kronk doesn't seem to include anything that's not in Yeomans (that I've seen yet, at least), but Yeomans sometimes has entries that aren't included in Kronk. If we stick with Yeomans' dating, at least everything will be consistent, so if we find out Kronk was right we just need to shift everything forward one year (I think there should be an easy computational way to do that?).
Let me know if that sounds good -- if not, I can go back and switch the dates again.
Thanks dirgni, it's much appreciated. I'll also be going in as I'm able and double-checking. I'm only at -83 BC right now, but I hope to do more today and/or tomorrow.
Laura said:
Oops -- I actually went through yesterday and changed all the dates back to Yeomans, adding the 1 year variation. My thinking is that this will help to keep things consistent, since Kronk doesn't seem to include anything that's not in Yeomans (that I've seen yet, at least), but Yeomans sometimes has entries that aren't included in Kronk. If we stick with Yeomans' dating, at least everything will be consistent, so if we find out Kronk was right we just need to shift everything forward one year (I think there should be an easy computational way to do that?).
Let me know if that sounds good -- if not, I can go back and switch the dates again.
Dirgni said:@Laura and Shijing: I removed my duplicates and updated appropriate events (107, 122, 123, 205, 209, 212, 213, 217, 219, 222, 225, 902, 896, 899, 900, 901, 905, 924).
There are still some of my entries left.
Thanks dirgni, it's much appreciated. I'll also be going in as I'm able and double-checking. I'm only at -83 BC right now, but I hope to do more today and/or tomorrow.
Re: Historical Events Database
There were some Kronk entries I did not find Yeomans or Archeoastronomy equivalents. The difference of 1 year were in the earlier entries (BC) but it seems not in the later entries (5xx). I found Kronk much more detailed than the other two.
Thank you Shijing for double-checking. Four eyes see more than two. (And I do not like to be the source of additional work for you. So you are very welcome.) Thank you for taking care.
Shijing said:Laura said:
Oops -- I actually went through yesterday and changed all the dates back to Yeomans, adding the 1 year variation. My thinking is that this will help to keep things consistent, since Kronk doesn't seem to include anything that's not in Yeomans (that I've seen yet, at least), but Yeomans sometimes has entries that aren't included in Kronk. If we stick with Yeomans' dating, at least everything will be consistent, so if we find out Kronk was right we just need to shift everything forward one year (I think there should be an easy computational way to do that?).
Let me know if that sounds good -- if not, I can go back and switch the dates again.
Dirgni said:@Laura and Shijing: I removed my duplicates and updated appropriate events (107, 122, 123, 205, 209, 212, 213, 217, 219, 222, 225, 902, 896, 899, 900, 901, 905, 924).
There are still some of my entries left.
Thanks dirgni, it's much appreciated. I'll also be going in as I'm able and double-checking. I'm only at -83 BC right now, but I hope to do more today and/or tomorrow.
There were some Kronk entries I did not find Yeomans or Archeoastronomy equivalents. The difference of 1 year were in the earlier entries (BC) but it seems not in the later entries (5xx). I found Kronk much more detailed than the other two.
Thank you Shijing for double-checking. Four eyes see more than two. (And I do not like to be the source of additional work for you. So you are very welcome.) Thank you for taking care.
Re: Historical Events Database
If you are going to do Jordanes, be sure that you cross check every entry with other sources. Jordanes is highly unreliable - basically, a "written on command" history that was designed to make it appear that the Goths had some connection to Romans/Christians.
Icedesert said:
If you are going to do Jordanes, be sure that you cross check every entry with other sources. Jordanes is highly unreliable - basically, a "written on command" history that was designed to make it appear that the Goths had some connection to Romans/Christians.
Re: Historical Events Database
If that's the case then let's leave it as Shijing has it and just make sure to make notes going forward. Data is going to make a special field for me so that when I start to try to sort out the dating issues, I will have a place to enter the "probable date" as opposed to the given dates. That might produce some very interesting results.
Dirgni said:
If that's the case then let's leave it as Shijing has it and just make sure to make notes going forward. Data is going to make a special field for me so that when I start to try to sort out the dating issues, I will have a place to enter the "probable date" as opposed to the given dates. That might produce some very interesting results.
Zadig
Jedi
Re: Historical Events Database
Yes.
There is no overlapping of the sources. Nithard is only useful around the years of the Treaty of Verdun. But I will specify it, when I will quote from Nithard.
If you have time to do it, read also Regino of Prüm, it's the other major chronicler for the 9th century.
There is an english translation but if you understand German you can find it for free in the MGH. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regino_of_Pr%C3%BCm
By the way, are you really sure that the Annals of Fulda and Saint-Bertin don’t talk about the Halley’s comet of 837?
Yes, it would be better. I use modern names because it's easier for us.
For example, people will seek Spain not Marca Hispanica.
Yes.
There is no overlapping of the sources. Nithard is only useful around the years of the Treaty of Verdun. But I will specify it, when I will quote from Nithard.
If you have time to do it, read also Regino of Prüm, it's the other major chronicler for the 9th century.
There is an english translation but if you understand German you can find it for free in the MGH. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regino_of_Pr%C3%BCm
By the way, are you really sure that the Annals of Fulda and Saint-Bertin don’t talk about the Halley’s comet of 837?
Yes, it would be better. I use modern names because it's easier for us.
For example, people will seek Spain not Marca Hispanica.
Re: Historical Events Database
Thank you for confirmation. Is Nithard only talking about "the usual things" or is the text considered unreliable during that time?
I may check Regino of Prüm when I finished the other two. Thank you for your recommendation. I do understand German but if there is something to include in this database, maybe I should just take the English version...
There is no comet mentioned in Annals of Saint-Bertin and no unusual event the whole year. My copy of Annals of Fulda starts with translation of 838. I found a translation in Kronk for the 837 comet and a latin text. I included the latin text with the translation of Kronk.
In 838/839 there is a comet, a couple of fireballs, red sky and a flood where land was lost to sea forever. The description of these events were more extensive that the 837 comet. But I ask myself how reliable the dates of these annals really are. :/
I would include Spain in "present location" and "Marca Hispanica" in past location. If you prefer to skip "Marca Hispanica" I would include Spain in present location and not past location. Just my 2 cents.
Zadig said:
Thank you for confirmation. Is Nithard only talking about "the usual things" or is the text considered unreliable during that time?
I may check Regino of Prüm when I finished the other two. Thank you for your recommendation. I do understand German but if there is something to include in this database, maybe I should just take the English version...
There is no comet mentioned in Annals of Saint-Bertin and no unusual event the whole year. My copy of Annals of Fulda starts with translation of 838. I found a translation in Kronk for the 837 comet and a latin text. I included the latin text with the translation of Kronk.
In 838/839 there is a comet, a couple of fireballs, red sky and a flood where land was lost to sea forever. The description of these events were more extensive that the 837 comet. But I ask myself how reliable the dates of these annals really are. :/
I remembered "Frankenreich" (Francia) from my history lessons. Francia included besides France and Germany also Belgium, the Netherlands, Austria and parts of Italy. So maybe Europeans would check for Francia as this is more accurate.
I would include Spain in "present location" and "Marca Hispanica" in past location. If you prefer to skip "Marca Hispanica" I would include Spain in present location and not past location. Just my 2 cents.
Re: Historical Events Database
I just made my first entry of an earthquake in Klaudioupolis (modern Bolu) as described by Leo the Deacon in the english translation of his work "The history of Leo the Deacon: Byzantine military expansion in the tenth century" by Talbot and Sullivan. Can you check it out if it's done right?
It appears from the authors' notes (and ckecking with wiki and other google searches) that Leo is prone to errors, so instead of going with 965 as the year of the event, I went with 967. See my notes for that. There's a few more events I'd be including from this book.
I just made my first entry of an earthquake in Klaudioupolis (modern Bolu) as described by Leo the Deacon in the english translation of his work "The history of Leo the Deacon: Byzantine military expansion in the tenth century" by Talbot and Sullivan. Can you check it out if it's done right?
It appears from the authors' notes (and ckecking with wiki and other google searches) that Leo is prone to errors, so instead of going with 965 as the year of the event, I went with 967. See my notes for that. There's a few more events I'd be including from this book.
Re: Historical Events Database
Alana, you did your first entry fine. You should include your other entries IMHO.
Here is my feedback (and I am still a beginner with this, too :/):
If Leo provided a year I would mention it in the quote box. I would also include Leos year in the occurrence year box with appropriate uncertainty - 2 years. But you could also choose the authors year and mark uncertainty. Then you put in a remark in other notes box to explain this - you already did this extensively.
I am still struggling with keywords myself. For keywords I sometimes search for entries with the same event type and check the keywords especially at Laura's entries. My choice for your entry would be maybe: "city/towns destroyed, people killed and buried under ruins, God's wrath". Keywords are for searching so they should be general. And they could be used to find potential doubles. Therefore they have to be general, short but descriptive.
You could also read this thread to check Laura's comments how to include entries in the database. And I think that at least I will sometimes go over my own entries to check if I could improve them in keywords, etc... :)
When you have got a question about database entries you could include your quote and other information in this thread. This makes it easier to answer it...
Just my 2 cents
Alana, you did your first entry fine. You should include your other entries IMHO.
Here is my feedback (and I am still a beginner with this, too :/):
If Leo provided a year I would mention it in the quote box. I would also include Leos year in the occurrence year box with appropriate uncertainty - 2 years. But you could also choose the authors year and mark uncertainty. Then you put in a remark in other notes box to explain this - you already did this extensively.
I am still struggling with keywords myself. For keywords I sometimes search for entries with the same event type and check the keywords especially at Laura's entries. My choice for your entry would be maybe: "city/towns destroyed, people killed and buried under ruins, God's wrath". Keywords are for searching so they should be general. And they could be used to find potential doubles. Therefore they have to be general, short but descriptive.
You could also read this thread to check Laura's comments how to include entries in the database. And I think that at least I will sometimes go over my own entries to check if I could improve them in keywords, etc... :)
When you have got a question about database entries you could include your quote and other information in this thread. This makes it easier to answer it...
Just my 2 cents
Zadius Sky
The Living Force
Re: Historical Events Database
I reviewed through the entire thread, focusing on the authors, and updated the "initial" table:
------------
All of the above is what I have found so far, with several members saying that they'll do or they're done or dropped. If any of the above is incorrect, that's because it had not been stated in this thread.
I had thought about adding other ancient authors to the list that several members were working on, but a few members were working several authors at once and moving on without finishing their entire works (i.e., one entry of one ancient author was inputted but not his entire work were read and so on). Zadig even made over 458 entries from 35+ sources, so I couldn't include him in the list above.
Icedesert said:
I reviewed through the entire thread, focusing on the authors, and updated the "initial" table:
| Ancient Author | Volunteer |
| Polybius | Renaissance |
| Diodorus of Sicily | |
| Dionysius of Halicarnassus | SeekinTruth |
| Livy | Laura |
| Marcus Velleius Paterculus | |
| Flavius Josephus | Palinurus |
| Plutarch | Shijing |
| Gaius Cornelius Tacitus | |
| Suetonius | Shijing |
| Dio Cassius | Eboard10 |
| Herodian | Eboard10 (done) |
| Eusebius of Caesarea | |
| Ammianus Marcellinus | Zadius Sky |
| Theodoret | |
| Priscus | |
| Sozomen | |
| Salvian | |
| John Malalas | Laura |
| Zosimus | Zadius Sky (done) |
| Procopius | Zadius Sky (five entries initially) ∞ Laura |
| Jordanes | Icedesert |
| Nennius | Bear |
| Gregory of Tours | Laura (done) |
| Bede | |
| Paul the Deacon | Icedesert (dropped) ∞ Laura (done) |
| Michael the Syrian (French) | Pierre |
| Ice Core Data | mkrhr |
All of the above is what I have found so far, with several members saying that they'll do or they're done or dropped. If any of the above is incorrect, that's because it had not been stated in this thread.
I had thought about adding other ancient authors to the list that several members were working on, but a few members were working several authors at once and moving on without finishing their entire works (i.e., one entry of one ancient author was inputted but not his entire work were read and so on). Zadig even made over 458 entries from 35+ sources, so I couldn't include him in the list above.
Re: Historical Events Database
Eboard10,
you mentioned you are looking at the cassius Dio Books 71-80; I made some entries from Dio Cassius remaining books, though it was not in my initial plan. I have some entries from book 71-80 too, if you want me to enter them, I will enter.
Eboard10,
you mentioned you are looking at the cassius Dio Books 71-80; I made some entries from Dio Cassius remaining books, though it was not in my initial plan. I have some entries from book 71-80 too, if you want me to enter them, I will enter.
Re: Historical Events Database
I added in additional fields for 'corrected dates'. I copied all 'given dates' to the 'corrected dates' as a starting point. If you change a 'corrected date', it will appear in red color on the listings page. The graphs now also support displaying/filtering by 'corrected dates'.
I added in additional fields for 'corrected dates'. I copied all 'given dates' to the 'corrected dates' as a starting point. If you change a 'corrected date', it will appear in red color on the listings page. The graphs now also support displaying/filtering by 'corrected dates'.
Re: Historical Events Database
Here's a little example of how things can go:
Take a look at entries: 1421, 1422, 1423, 1424, 1425, 1426, 1429
I was finishing off Pliny and came across this:
Obviously, with a little research, I was able to date the items with Olympiad and consular dating (the footnote dating in translations is not always correct, I found, also.)
But that last bit about Mount Epopos made me wonder. I did a quick check and found the following:
The peak is now Monte Epomeo and Pliny refers to it as Mount Epopos.
I then found an extract from Strabo:
And so, I was able to get entry 1425 directly from Strabo AND include Pliny's notes, and 1426 was Pliny derived from Timaeus via Strabo.
What was cool was being able to get an approximate date for this eruption/earthquake/tsunami.
Here's a little example of how things can go:
Take a look at entries: 1421, 1422, 1423, 1424, 1425, 1426, 1429
I was finishing off Pliny and came across this:
Obviously, with a little research, I was able to date the items with Olympiad and consular dating (the footnote dating in translations is not always correct, I found, also.)
But that last bit about Mount Epopos made me wonder. I did a quick check and found the following:
The peak is now Monte Epomeo and Pliny refers to it as Mount Epopos.
my notes said:
I then found an extract from Strabo:
And so, I was able to get entry 1425 directly from Strabo AND include Pliny's notes, and 1426 was Pliny derived from Timaeus via Strabo.
What was cool was being able to get an approximate date for this eruption/earthquake/tsunami.
Palinurus
The Living Force
Re: Historical Events Database
I have been trying to get access to the database website the last couple of hours but was repeatedly confronted with the following message:
I can't think of anything going wrong at my side, so I was wondering what might be going on: some maintenance, perhaps?
I got access yesterday evening without any trouble, and now this.
I have been trying to get access to the database website the last couple of hours but was repeatedly confronted with the following message:
I can't think of anything going wrong at my side, so I was wondering what might be going on: some maintenance, perhaps?
I got access yesterday evening without any trouble, and now this.
