Historical Events Database - History

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Take a look in Cometography at the entry for 60 AD "X/60 P-1". That seems to be the best fit. At the end of his discussion, he notes that Pingre dated this comet to 62 AD, so you have a couple of years of play there. Note also your own calculations:

Albinus was procurator from 62-64 AD, so adding "seven years and five months" brings us right into the heart of the War period. The War started in 66 AD and "four years before the war began" would give 62 AD also.

I've put this comet in as entry 244. Shijing added entries for the earthquakes and continuous storms: #s: 1405, 1406.

What seems to me is that Josephus is dressing up his "history" using a number of borrowed elements. So, I would put the whole passage in one entry, "portents of destruction of Jerusalem" as the associating keywords, date it to 62 with a couple years +/-, and most of your comments above in the notes. Also, put in the above entry numbers as being probably associated.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thank you for your kindly assistance, Laura. I'll proceed as proposed although I don't have Cometography at my disposal at the moment, but I'll manage.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thank you for your kindly assistance, Laura. I'll proceed as proposed although I don't have Cometography at my disposal at the moment, but I'll manage.

I'm pretty sure I made it available a couple pages back. Anybody remember where/when?

 

[Beau]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thank you for your kindly assistance, Laura. I'll proceed as proposed although I don't have Cometography at my disposal at the moment, but I'll manage.

I'm pretty sure I made it available a couple pages back. Anybody remember where/when?

Here - https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33985.msg480240.html#msg480240- Data is offering to send it via email. He asked those interested to PM him. I couldn't find a post where you attached it.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thank you for your kindly assistance, Laura. I'll proceed as proposed although I don't have Cometography at my disposal at the moment, but I'll manage.

I'm pretty sure I made it available a couple pages back. Anybody remember where/when?

Here - https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33985.msg480240.html#msg480240- Data is offering to send it via email. He asked those interested to PM him. I couldn't find a post where you attached it.

I downloaded it from a link in the database itself. But this was in a earlier version and it is not available any more.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

The comet of 60 AD "X/60 P-1" is described in database entry 244.

Please find comets of first century in appendix (Kronk page 44-55).

Moderator's note: Removed attachment.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thanks to all involved for sorting this out while I was away. I knew there were mentions of this somewhere and now I don't have to go looking for it myself. Great!

Special thanks to Dirgni for providing the PDF extract in an attachment.

I suppose that it contains all I need for the moment.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

I have completed the entry in the database following Laura's suggestions.

I noticed that remarks given into the "other notes" text field were nowhere to be found after I saved them. Therefore, I assembled the most pertinent information in the regular quote box text field.

The additional explanatory remarks can only be read via the edit button, I suppose.

I hope I got this entry right first time but I would appreciate a critical look at it.

 

[Voyageur]

Re: Historical Events Database

I think I need some help sorting out some issues with Flavius Josephus' Wars of the Jews notably Book VI, Ch.5 § 3-4 (Loeb 6, 288-315).

<5>
Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar], 297 a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, 298 and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen 299 running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.

Don't have a clue as to what to make of this phenomenon.


My overall question would now be: what can be used from this list and in what form should it be entered into the database?

I could not help when reading the above strangeness the other day, in thinking of Saladin in the 13-Feb-2011 Session (as was seen in the news video). I know Laura, that you said "Josephus is dressing up his "history"' - seems true, and yet in this case (above), wondered if what is being referred to ("observed by those who related it") mirrors what was discussed in the session as a perceptual phenomena (experience)?

Q: (Andromeda) Is a massive worldwide thinning of the veil responsible for a lot of the high strangeness experienced recently? Well, we already know that.

A: Yes.

Q: (Andromeda) What was the horse and rider apparition that was seen in Egypt?

A: Thinning of the veil.

Q: (Belibaste) But this knight, what was the meaning? Was it a ghost, a creature, was it fighting with the Egyptian people? (Perceval) It looked like an apparition of...

A: Saladin.
[...]
A: Thinning of the veil. Electrical phenomena can do that.
[...]
A: More or less. The electric charges also can affect human perception.

I know this could be seen as comet debris or electrical discharge etc. (chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor - among the clouds). However, would something such as was described be put in "electrical phenomena" (or sub category) in the database in cases such as this?

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Hi voyageur,

It's an interesting approach you"re offering and an apt way of looking at this. Thank you for bringing this up.

Initially, I was inclined to think of it as a Fata Morgana (mirage) but discarded that idea because of the context.

It's pretty clear IMO that a few of these portents are somehow related in themselves (i.e. beyond their common denominator of targeting the destruction of Jerusalem) and therefore are presented as a group in one go. They are situated in the years between 60 - 67 AD. It's known from Josephus' autobiography that he was in Rome during 64 AD (hyperlink added by me):

In 64, he went to Rome to negotiate the release of several priests held hostage by the emperor Nero. It was an adventurous voyage including shipwreck. When he and the priests returned home, he discovered that his country was on the brink of a revolt against the tactless Roman governor Gessius Florus. In his autobiography (discussed below), Joseph claims that he was a moderate. It did not prevent him from joining the revolutionaries when the rebels, belonging to the nationalist groups called Zealots and Sicarians, had annihilated the Roman garrison at Jerusalem. The Temple authorities sent Joseph to Galilee and ordered him to organize the resistance to the approaching Roman legions, which were commanded by Vespasian.

This particular portent could have happened while he was away -- hence the emphasis on testimonial of direct eye witnesses (first hand accounts).

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Re: Historical Events Database

Looks like Baillie no longer thinks the 540 event was cosmic, but volcanic instead. http://cosmictusk.com/baillie-540-ad-event-likely-volcano-not-cosmic-seven-year-glitch-discovered-in-ice-cores/

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Looks like Baillie no longer thinks the 540 event was cosmic, but volcanic instead. http://cosmictusk.com/baillie-540-ad-event-likely-volcano-not-cosmic-seven-year-glitch-discovered-in-ice-cores/

Works for me. We've got our ocean impact event a bit later anyway if you've been following the database.

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

Eboard10,
you mentioned you are looking at the cassius Dio Books 71-80; I made some entries from Dio Cassius remaining books, though it was not in my initial plan. I have some entries from book 71-80 too, if you want me to enter them, I will enter.

I entered the findings from all Dio cassius books 1-80. I may enter some more as I dig further.

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

I think I need some help sorting out some issues with Flavius Josephus' Wars of the Jews notably Book VI, Ch.5 § 3-4 (Loeb 6, 288-315).

According to this table the date of the start of the Temple fire was August 10, 70 AD.

The following is what Josephus has written without giving any clues as to when these events took place (I numbered them into separate lines with my remarks in blue):

<5>
Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar], 297 a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, 298 and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen 299 running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities.

Funny, As a kids we were told that gods are fighting in sky when ever sudden thunderstorm comes up and kids are scared of it and suggested to ask for help by saying arjuna and krishna ( main characters in hindu myth mahabharata ).

Dio also mentioned some thing like Gaints from spewing Mt. Vesuvius in 79 AD

4 Then suddenly a portentous crash was heard, as if the mountains were tumbling in ruins; and first huge stones were hurled aloft, rising as high as the very summits, then came a great quantity of fire and endless smoke, so that the whole atmosphere was obscured and the sun was entirely hidden, as if eclipsed. 23 1 Thus day was turned into night and light into darkness. Some thought that the Giants were rising again in revolt (for at this time also many of their forms could be discerned in the smoke and, moreover, a sound as of trumpets was heard), while others believed that the whole universe was being resolved into chaos or fire.

It looked like Dio is confirming Giants saying forms can be discerned. I put it in society > prodigy. Dio also mentioned some incidents of apparitions during occasion of earthquakes etc.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Thanks for sharing these thoughts and the excerpt of Cassius Dio, seek10.

I followed Laura's suggestion to assemble all the portents into just one entry for the database, with the comet as the main thing (entry # 1710; 62 AD).

The one of mine you commented on isn't volcanic nor an apparition, and not even seems to be related to (anomalous) weather -- judging from the very scarce details we got.