Homeland War
- Thread starter wanderingthomas
- Start date
Argo
Jedi Master
aelyrsenn said:
Well, the first consequence of this celebration is that yesterday in Zagreb, a car with Serbian registration plates was burned. Meanwhile in Belgrade a small group of Serbian nationalists were burned the Croatian national flag. Do you see where all this leads?
As for Croatia's independence, I hope that you know that because of Croatia independence from 1991 to 95, about 400 000 serbs was left Croatia, where they have lived for centuries. They fled the country because they feared of "terror of the history" from WWII, because during the WWII in Croatian concentration camps were died about 700 000 people, mostly Serbs, but also Jews, Roma's, and also Croatians who were against Croatian fascist/natzi state. For me personally these numbers are not so important, because I think that only one life is more "valuable" than any treasure in the world, but I can not ignore the facts.
On the other hand, the irony is that the psychopathic leaders of Serbia and Croatia, Slobodan Milosevic and Franjo Tudjman have met every two weeks during the "war years", along with drinking, eating and laughing, while we hated and killing each other. It seems to me that all of us, ordinary and normal people were actually caught in some monstrous psychopath game.
Perhaps the real question for the Cassiopaeans is (if any need):
- Why is it necessary for the forces of PTB that Balkan region is so divided and full of hatred? Serbians, Croats and Bosninas(muslims) have essentially the same language, same mentality, it is obviously that we are descendants of the same people. The only difference is our religion. Why and for whom It is necessary to keep us divided?
I ask this because I know that, for example, there are many major differences between the south and the north of Italy, and the same is true for Germany or Spain, greater differences than those between Serbs and Croats.
Sorry for my bad english.
Isn't the answer obvious without Cassiopeans?Argo said:
I understand where are you coming from with this but you are surely opening a can of worms which is beyond the scope of this forum as was already pointed out.
IMO this thread should be locked as it will continue to attract people from ex Yugoslavia who still want to argue which nation is bigger villain.
Anyone interested in a fairly unbiased, fact-based explanation of why and how the former Yugoslavia became embroiled in 'sectarian war' during the 1990's and was eventually broken up in to several different nation states should read on or other (or both) of these books:
To Kill a Nation - Michael Parenti
Hidden Agenda - US/NATO takeover of Yugoslavia - various authors.
To Kill a Nation - Michael Parenti
Hidden Agenda - US/NATO takeover of Yugoslavia - various authors.
And also Breaking the South Slav Dream by Kate Hudson
In spite of this review on amazon i think its pretty accurate and objective book:
"This is a relatively short overview of Yugoslavia from 1918 to its final demise in 2003. The first half of the book covers the creation of Yugoslavia, its WW2 break-up and its re-creation as a socialist federation under Marshall Tito. The chapters are brief and straightforward with little new information.
The second half of the book tends to stray into the realm of suspicion and paranoia that is a staple for this part of the world. Hudson unfortunately sees everything that happened in Yugoslavia since 1980 as a consequence of American capitalist imperialism.
By the end, I was really tired of this book, even tho it is less than 200 pages. If you want a more objective look at why Yugoslavia so tragically shattered into pieces, look elsewhere. If you want proof that Uncle Sam is manipulating the entire world out of sheer geopolitical aggression, here is your champion. "
In spite of this review on amazon i think its pretty accurate and objective book:
"This is a relatively short overview of Yugoslavia from 1918 to its final demise in 2003. The first half of the book covers the creation of Yugoslavia, its WW2 break-up and its re-creation as a socialist federation under Marshall Tito. The chapters are brief and straightforward with little new information.
The second half of the book tends to stray into the realm of suspicion and paranoia that is a staple for this part of the world. Hudson unfortunately sees everything that happened in Yugoslavia since 1980 as a consequence of American capitalist imperialism.
By the end, I was really tired of this book, even tho it is less than 200 pages. If you want a more objective look at why Yugoslavia so tragically shattered into pieces, look elsewhere. If you want proof that Uncle Sam is manipulating the entire world out of sheer geopolitical aggression, here is your champion. "
Ivo Andric from Bosnia ( Croat by birth, Serb by conviction ) was a famous writer and winner of Nobel's Prize for literature. In his opus he display immense understanding of both individual mentality and collective psyche of Yugoslav people. I thought this quote of his is very accurate and appropriate for this thread:
"These peoples have suffered violence, disorder and injustice for too long, and they have gotten used to either suffer silently or to rebel, depending on the times or circumstances. They spend their bitter and empty existence between thoughts of revenge or occasional rebellions. Closed and insensitive for anything else. Sometimes one wonders if the spirit of most Balkan people is forever poisoned and will not be capable of anything else but violence, either to suffer it or to commit it.
"Suviše je ovaj narod patio od nereda, nasilja i nepravde, i suviše navikao da ih podnosi sa podmuklim roptanjem ili da se buni protiv njih, već prema vremenima i okolnostima. Između osvetničkih misli i povremenih pobuna prolazi im gorak i pust vek. Za sve drugo oni su neosetljivi i nepristupačni. Ponekad se čovek pita da nije duh većine balkanskih naroda zauvek otrovan i da, možda, nikad više neće ni moći ništa drugo do jedno: da trpi nasilje ili da ga čini." Ivo Andrić
"These peoples have suffered violence, disorder and injustice for too long, and they have gotten used to either suffer silently or to rebel, depending on the times or circumstances. They spend their bitter and empty existence between thoughts of revenge or occasional rebellions. Closed and insensitive for anything else. Sometimes one wonders if the spirit of most Balkan people is forever poisoned and will not be capable of anything else but violence, either to suffer it or to commit it.
"Suviše je ovaj narod patio od nereda, nasilja i nepravde, i suviše navikao da ih podnosi sa podmuklim roptanjem ili da se buni protiv njih, već prema vremenima i okolnostima. Između osvetničkih misli i povremenih pobuna prolazi im gorak i pust vek. Za sve drugo oni su neosetljivi i nepristupačni. Ponekad se čovek pita da nije duh većine balkanskih naroda zauvek otrovan i da, možda, nikad više neće ni moći ništa drugo do jedno: da trpi nasilje ili da ga čini." Ivo Andrić
Ko smo
The Force is Strong With This One
So even here I see Gotovina & Markač and all that politic that is around me all time!!
Every day people fitting about who is right and who is wrong when in fact we are all wrong as war was the one that made all this and people that where seduced by politicians who told them lies for their own interest.
Why do you think that asking the C's would help you or anyone? So you can tell : THE SERBS DID THE WAR!!THEY KILLED PEOPLE AND I KNOW IT AS THE C'S TOLD SO!!! or some other reason? Then we can ask them why are people in Somalia hungry, why do we have war in area of Jerusalem for more that 2000 years, why did UK and other colonial powers had slaves in large part of the world and today they are countries that we need to follow in political way etc...
I live in Croatia like you and have seen all the horrors all on TV, News and listened for many years that Serbs are this and that and that I need to hate them and kill if I have an chance! Can you imagine what that did to my brain as my grandmother was Serb and she was most carring person I ever know!!!!
Then it become clear to me that not the Serbs, Croats, Bosnian, etc are responsible for the war it was the people who had that interest!!!
Listen to facts, put aside your emotions and you will see that there are good people and bad ones and even Croats can be bad ones and Serbs good ones! It has passed many years after this war and no need to bring this back.
Be proud and happy that you have an chance to live and develop yourself with knowledge
Ko smo?!
Every day people fitting about who is right and who is wrong when in fact we are all wrong as war was the one that made all this and people that where seduced by politicians who told them lies for their own interest.
Why do you think that asking the C's would help you or anyone? So you can tell : THE SERBS DID THE WAR!!THEY KILLED PEOPLE AND I KNOW IT AS THE C'S TOLD SO!!! or some other reason? Then we can ask them why are people in Somalia hungry, why do we have war in area of Jerusalem for more that 2000 years, why did UK and other colonial powers had slaves in large part of the world and today they are countries that we need to follow in political way etc...
I live in Croatia like you and have seen all the horrors all on TV, News and listened for many years that Serbs are this and that and that I need to hate them and kill if I have an chance! Can you imagine what that did to my brain as my grandmother was Serb and she was most carring person I ever know!!!!
Then it become clear to me that not the Serbs, Croats, Bosnian, etc are responsible for the war it was the people who had that interest!!!
Listen to facts, put aside your emotions and you will see that there are good people and bad ones and even Croats can be bad ones and Serbs good ones! It has passed many years after this war and no need to bring this back.
Be proud and happy that you have an chance to live and develop yourself with knowledge
Ko smo?!
wanderingthomas
Jedi Master
I don't care about any hatered nor do I perpetuate it.
I am the first and the only one in my family who will say that it is not about Cr vs Serb it's about humanity vs pshycopaths in control. I am the first one who will say that we are perpetuating the very dynamic and perception that caused all of this horor. My sister said to me last Sunday because of that that I was crazy.
So, my goal here is not to get the Cs to accuse anybody. My goal here is for such crimes not to be forgoten, and for humanity or at least us to learn why such things happen and how we can prevent it.
I am the first and the only one in my family who will say that it is not about Cr vs Serb it's about humanity vs pshycopaths in control. I am the first one who will say that we are perpetuating the very dynamic and perception that caused all of this horor. My sister said to me last Sunday because of that that I was crazy.
So, my goal here is not to get the Cs to accuse anybody. My goal here is for such crimes not to be forgoten, and for humanity or at least us to learn why such things happen and how we can prevent it.
I agree and just have this odd stomach feeling of seeing all of this before. Something tells me it want stop here! Hope I'm wrong, but something wicked comes our way, again!
Nević Nenad
The Living Force
Regulattor said:
It just looks like that for the moment, it will cool down. Anyway it is different in the people and in the media. I live in Serbia (yes, I'm Atlantean, the oldest man on the world and I have golden angelic wings
;D ) and there is no any wish for something like that here. Majority of people here don't think that Serbs was the good side in the war, and thinks there wasn't good side. Also majority of people are happy because of the fact that our war criminals will stay at Haag, no one wants them here (who would want military killer types around).General stance before the "generals situation" was "OK, we are brothers and friends, we shall go together int he future, to the hell with the war, we all were tricked to that, lets get piece and forget" (I'm telling the overall "atmosphere and stance" among people not media or politics).
Then they liberated generals and Croatians went in some strange nationalistic orgy (at least observed from aside), and people here was very surprised and: "The hack was that!? But, you were normal just a minute ago!?"
Then Serbian politician puppets turned on, and started the "communique" war with Croatian politician puppets
And they made "difficult situations". No one hates Croats for being Croats. But as a result of all that, foremost for sudden nationalistic frenzy and hate in Croatia (as seen in Serbia) is reservation that most of Serbian people now have towards Croatians (jebiga ne umem da prevedem "sa otklonom"). Its like: "we were friends and you betrayed us, we thought that the war was over, and you were still in the war behind our back" So, now the general "atmosphere and stance" is more like "we have nothing against you, but also we do not want to have anything with you".This is how I have seen all of that, and my thoughts and impressions of the people around me. Again, I am Serbian who lives in Serbia, so my view could be biased and subjective, I am aware of that.
