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Hope, fear and the future
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
Corvus
Dagobah Resident
I hear people talking about "hope" but how do you define it? Most people think about better world which I have no doubt will come but most think about it happening instantly and people all over world waking up miraculously and humanity is saved from gloom and doom or think about that idea as only acceptable, which is result of society programming. Others are on the other hand depressive and feel helpless not understanding how people can not see things which is letting your emotions rule you (which is normal) because they know better that there can be big difference between beings in their emotional and intellectual development, but there is probably lack of substance, when you meet other people daily and see their state of being it makes the picture clearer which some here probably lack because they are more sourranded with like minded people or avoid such contacts as much as they can which is understandable when it comes to conserving your energy and nerves and common sense, which unable s them to grasp depth of the situation.
But this makes "hope" mentioned above disappear and looks like naive thinking, like said in the article result of fear of death maybe with some people. I have hope for new world and know it will come, with me or without me, more of a latter I think, but things are gone get much more worse and dreadful before it comes, but a world of few people. Future is open, yes, but there are always doors which when passed can not be opened. Maybe some people think only about "hope" as hope for themselves to get "saved", myself I would get frustrated before as many did here for people not seeing it, especially family, because I wanted for them and myself happier existence, but after some experiences I can say I am not deluded, and know when payback comes it will come hard, but I am aloof now more or less about future because I know how it is going to generally end, knew it before but now it is certain, and being a bit selfish when it comes hope is not a bad idea. I managed to make financial stability in my life at last, which is still open in a way,which I am using to help my family which has health problems(father has to operate back and because of pains has trouble sleeping and mother broke her leg on three parts for a third time, and after not healing from feet that was a bit broken, she is a very kind person always trying to please others but this is problematic as you know, she ll go to pension now after 40 years of work that has took her health and life out of her, sister got second baby a month old while having a sweet young girl one year old, but I see it as a sign of what s to come ), and donate to sott.
Personally I can not be desatisfied, I learned many things in this life thanks to Cs and crew here, got through some things few people could trying to be versatile, not that it did not have impact on my nerve health because of too much forcing, never did anyone great harm and helped as much I could and was able, and still do on my job and at home, and through sharing knowledge some people changed themselves and are thankful for that. I know I could have done more work on myself and that I am far from optimal condition because of my power trip as a younger self( 8 is my soul number and life destiny with lifepath number 7 so maybe it is meant to be) and should ve been more on network here( I was at first until I got banned because of my ego program and came back and now see what an unexperienced child I was literally) but I am more of a person that keeps it for himself, but at least I tried.
But this makes "hope" mentioned above disappear and looks like naive thinking, like said in the article result of fear of death maybe with some people. I have hope for new world and know it will come, with me or without me, more of a latter I think, but things are gone get much more worse and dreadful before it comes, but a world of few people. Future is open, yes, but there are always doors which when passed can not be opened. Maybe some people think only about "hope" as hope for themselves to get "saved", myself I would get frustrated before as many did here for people not seeing it, especially family, because I wanted for them and myself happier existence, but after some experiences I can say I am not deluded, and know when payback comes it will come hard, but I am aloof now more or less about future because I know how it is going to generally end, knew it before but now it is certain, and being a bit selfish when it comes hope is not a bad idea. I managed to make financial stability in my life at last, which is still open in a way,which I am using to help my family which has health problems(father has to operate back and because of pains has trouble sleeping and mother broke her leg on three parts for a third time, and after not healing from feet that was a bit broken, she is a very kind person always trying to please others but this is problematic as you know, she ll go to pension now after 40 years of work that has took her health and life out of her, sister got second baby a month old while having a sweet young girl one year old, but I see it as a sign of what s to come ), and donate to sott.
Personally I can not be desatisfied, I learned many things in this life thanks to Cs and crew here, got through some things few people could trying to be versatile, not that it did not have impact on my nerve health because of too much forcing, never did anyone great harm and helped as much I could and was able, and still do on my job and at home, and through sharing knowledge some people changed themselves and are thankful for that. I know I could have done more work on myself and that I am far from optimal condition because of my power trip as a younger self( 8 is my soul number and life destiny with lifepath number 7 so maybe it is meant to be) and should ve been more on network here( I was at first until I got banned because of my ego program and came back and now see what an unexperienced child I was literally) but I am more of a person that keeps it for himself, but at least I tried.
Foxx said:
Yes, thank you, Joe for posting that message of hope.
I too struggle with this and yet have found it difficult to admit, primarily because of a sense of shame for not being braver somehow. It seems as though every morning I begin a new battle with these emotions. Yet, in this daily struggle, I have discovered that when I take positive action – even in small ways, I gain more hope and the courage to keep working and doing more.
I think I am finally beginning to understand that in these dark times, it is natural to experience some gloomy thoughts, but keeping faith in the process and continuing to take action every day is what is most important in the end. It really does come down to our daily choices – never giving up.
No matter what the ultimate outcome of the world, I think we all need a reminder now and then that as each one of us continues to do what we can in whatever way we are able, these actions will have more meaning and perhaps more results than we imagine.
Trobar
Jedi
Flashgordonv said:
Flashgordon, I experienced something similar in that I was raised by fundamentalist christians that believed "Armageddon" was arriving in 1975. Fortunately, I never bought into this. However, I did learn that these beliefs required that life be placed on hold and that waiting was the name of the game. These beliefts required that there be no value placed on what life is. Normal activities were of no value (education and all you posted in your comment). Although I did struggle quite a lot until I left 'home' and became emancipated, I learned that to invest your life waiting for some 'event' - versus - living your life and learning as much as we can is a monumental waste of an an indescribable opportunity. Thank you for sharing your own lessons and for your post.
Before I read this thread, I posted under your reply, Joe: "Well-said. Couldn't add anything.", this morning in the article reader comments. Or something like that. I read the article yesterday and didn't have time to reply then, but kept the tab open. This morning, I refreshed to read more of the new comments, and posted a couple of replies.
Thinking more about it all, I think that we have a chance to sharpen our discernment between lies and truth, between evil and good. The thing about President Putin and his team leading Russia is that it has become more and more obvious, for those with eyes to see, that they are actually opposing the machinations of the psychopaths ruling our world and setting an example for how a non-pathological leadership looks like....
Thinking more about it all, I think that we have a chance to sharpen our discernment between lies and truth, between evil and good. The thing about President Putin and his team leading Russia is that it has become more and more obvious, for those with eyes to see, that they are actually opposing the machinations of the psychopaths ruling our world and setting an example for how a non-pathological leadership looks like....
zak
The Living Force
Joe:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,27026.0.html
I would like to add this quote of Ark:
And
:)
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,27026.0.html
- I think that I may have something to add to this thread.
About our world, feeling powerless and trying to safe it. Its not our duty to save it, Our duty is to keep the school functional. If suffering is within their lesson profile (humanity) to help them see. Than this is what they have to experience in order to learn. Its natural.
In the Old Testament. God told Lot and his wife that they shouldn’t look backwards when he waged his destruction upon the sinful city of Gomorrah. Lot his wife did and was turned into a statue of hard-salt.
I think that the symbolic meaning of it is that it means that you should follow your own destiny. If you look back and try to push/help others who just can’t be saved from their own ignorance they drag you down and this becomes your own downfall.
It may be also that the wife of Lot lingered to the old sinful world unable to look forward to create the new one. And by that was not worthy of the new world? Sending a message that only when the old world is gone, the new one can appear? So prepare, and don't look back without regret of the old. But cherish and create the new ?
Painting of the event :
About our world, feeling powerless and trying to safe it. Its not our duty to save it, Our duty is to keep the school functional. If suffering is within their lesson profile (humanity) to help them see. Than this is what they have to experience in order to learn. Its natural.
In the Old Testament. God told Lot and his wife that they shouldn’t look backwards when he waged his destruction upon the sinful city of Gomorrah. Lot his wife did and was turned into a statue of hard-salt.
I think that the symbolic meaning of it is that it means that you should follow your own destiny. If you look back and try to push/help others who just can’t be saved from their own ignorance they drag you down and this becomes your own downfall.
It may be also that the wife of Lot lingered to the old sinful world unable to look forward to create the new one. And by that was not worthy of the new world? Sending a message that only when the old world is gone, the new one can appear? So prepare, and don't look back without regret of the old. But cherish and create the new ?
Painting of the event :
sitting
Dagobah Resident
Foxx said:
This was an important revelation. And it gives hope.
But the more I think about it, the more I feel it's an almost impossible task. (And I'm basically an optimist.) I think it requires an unbelievable level of mental clarity, concentration, and understanding as a basis. Hard for one individual -- and much harder to gather 200 of them.
That said, the C's have indicated that timelines HAVE been shifted recently ... through the efforts of this group. And that was encouraging.
I could be wrong.
FWIW.
Hi all, My thoughts on hope is that it should be eliminated like all the other things it showed up with.
If you happened to watch any of the John Trudell ( RIP ) videos in the thread on him, you'll know what I'm referring to. If not, here is the short version, with a (comment) or two of my own:
He spoke of when he was in school they told the story of Pandora's box...how it was given to her and she couldn't keep it shut..( the first psy-op of the story...blame the woman for humanities ills)..inside was all of the catastrophes and ills of the world, and hope...as a counter to the other stuff ( the second op..that hope is all you need to fight the other stuff)...John goes on to explain the dissonance it created in his head , as a rational and justifiably suspicious child ( how could he not be , being an indigenous person in the US?)...and his subsequent rejection of the idea. He goes on to say..."hope was in the box!!!" ..with all the others ills.
He goes on to state, and I'm in full agreement, that hope is passive...a feeling of "waiting to be served".
Also, another guy i resonate with, who passed on a few years ago, Joe Baegent (RIP) , wrote this excellent article in 2008. I think its still pertinent and well worth reading.
The Sucker Bait Called Hope By Joe Bageant
http://joebageant.net/?p=150
Here's a snip:
Thanks, Dave
If you happened to watch any of the John Trudell ( RIP ) videos in the thread on him, you'll know what I'm referring to. If not, here is the short version, with a (comment) or two of my own:
He spoke of when he was in school they told the story of Pandora's box...how it was given to her and she couldn't keep it shut..( the first psy-op of the story...blame the woman for humanities ills)..inside was all of the catastrophes and ills of the world, and hope...as a counter to the other stuff ( the second op..that hope is all you need to fight the other stuff)...John goes on to explain the dissonance it created in his head , as a rational and justifiably suspicious child ( how could he not be , being an indigenous person in the US?)...and his subsequent rejection of the idea. He goes on to say..."hope was in the box!!!" ..with all the others ills.
He goes on to state, and I'm in full agreement, that hope is passive...a feeling of "waiting to be served".
Also, another guy i resonate with, who passed on a few years ago, Joe Baegent (RIP) , wrote this excellent article in 2008. I think its still pertinent and well worth reading.
The Sucker Bait Called Hope By Joe Bageant
http://joebageant.net/?p=150
Here's a snip:
Thanks, Dave
obyvatel
The Living Force
Corvinus said:
I think "faith" needs clarification before moving on to "hope".
As an example, one's faith in a tool (physical or otherwise) is proportional to the degree of understanding of how the tool operates, and its range of possibilities. Then when one harbors hope of accomplishing some work with the tool, it is realistic hope.
Faith in the general sense is closely related to understanding of existence. One important (imo) component of this understanding is the presence of hazard or significant uncertainty (discussed more here ). Statistical thinking, which is very useful in many practical contexts, can fool us into expecting certainties and fixed outcomes in the wrong contexts. Hope in the general sense comes from opportunities that exist (as possibilities) due to hazard.
Take the example of a pot of water being slowly heated. Statistically, it is possible to say what will happen to the water being heated for long enough time. But when we consider the possible fate of individual water molecules, things are not certain. Which molecules will turn into vapor earlier? It would depend on many factors. As a thought experiment, can a molecule of water hope to change state to vapor sooner rather than later? It can. To realize this change of state, it needs to learn what it can do from its side to speed things up. If it can increase its energy it has more chance of succeeding. It can try and utilize its interactions with its neighbors to this end. It can also know that its transformation is not certain. It can increase the chances but it is dependent on external circumstances. If it understands this, it can harbor hope in a healthy way.
In the human context, similar considerations apply. But here, unconscious images specific to the culture often condition faith and hope more strongly than objective understanding. The apocalypse/resurrection image in a particular concrete form is far stronger in the collective unconscious with strong Judeo-Christian influence. In contrast, the images arising from some eastern cultures influenced by doctrines of impermanence and cyclical time are different.
Then again, people who have lived through significant hardship and survived have different understanding of life - regarding "justice" and "fairness" for example, which influence our hopes and fears. For example, Gurdjieff lived through the Bolshevik Revolution and two world wars. Reading his own accounts as well as transcripts of meetings which involved people in the middle of a world war can be instructive as much for the actual content (what was being discussed) as for what was left unsaid.
Real life events like weather changes, political turmoil etc thus fall on different underlying substrates and give rise to different thoughts and reactions. So "end of times" with its accompanying hopes and fears are different for different people.
So if such questions become super important, taking an approach of increasing objective knowledge as well as inquiring about how other people from different times and cultural backgrounds viewed such issues may be of some use.
From sitting:
Yes, I have read all the scripts. Emotions?...a bit of disgust i think, and some sadness for those who think it can make a difference. Feelings, see below.
From Joe:
Joe, I thought the above was fairly clear as a definition....don't know what more to say.. but I'll try.
I understand that what Bagent and Trudell were talking about was O'bummers use of the word in his campaign....but "Magical thinking" is close to my feelings about it in a general, simple way.
If the definition of "hope" is justified optimism....well, then I'm completely wrong.
I'm most likely "coloring" it with my own bad(?) attitude about it, like i so often do with some things... my bad attitude stems from the "magical thinking" definition, the one that politicians and religious types use too much that i was referring to. (please read the linked article, if you have the time)
If, on the other hand, you "plan for the worst and hope for the best", then hope is OK, being there is nothing left you can do.....even then, it still seems to me to be useless yearning. What i see in the people who overuse the word is not enough doing....almost as if hope is a substitute for doing all that can be done.
It's been a while since i read your first post Joe, and i think maybe you were talking about the "plan for the worst, hope for the best kind"...so I'll go back and read it again....
One other thing that is the most likely real culprit of my attitude towards it is this; that I feel I've completely lost all hope of having any ability to fix my own petty little personal problems, let alone doing things that advance me toward goals i wish to accomplish. I've become hopeless. G was right, you can't do it yourself. That idea has always bothered me; what kind of "loving" God would make a creature that could not find his way back to him on his own?...but I know, I know...he didn't make just one creature...he made many, and its become painfully obvious to me now that we need each others help. ( Please excuse the male "god" ref's...it's an old thought from when i still believed) ....sorry, i'm going off track..
Anyway, I may be projecting my own hopelessness onto the word itself... and maybe Trudell and Bagent were too?..I don't know...
Thanks, Dave
Yes, I have read all the scripts. Emotions?...a bit of disgust i think, and some sadness for those who think it can make a difference. Feelings, see below.
From Joe:
Joe, I thought the above was fairly clear as a definition....don't know what more to say.. but I'll try.
I understand that what Bagent and Trudell were talking about was O'bummers use of the word in his campaign....but "Magical thinking" is close to my feelings about it in a general, simple way.
If the definition of "hope" is justified optimism....well, then I'm completely wrong.
I'm most likely "coloring" it with my own bad(?) attitude about it, like i so often do with some things... my bad attitude stems from the "magical thinking" definition, the one that politicians and religious types use too much that i was referring to. (please read the linked article, if you have the time)
If, on the other hand, you "plan for the worst and hope for the best", then hope is OK, being there is nothing left you can do.....even then, it still seems to me to be useless yearning. What i see in the people who overuse the word is not enough doing....almost as if hope is a substitute for doing all that can be done.
It's been a while since i read your first post Joe, and i think maybe you were talking about the "plan for the worst, hope for the best kind"...so I'll go back and read it again....
One other thing that is the most likely real culprit of my attitude towards it is this; that I feel I've completely lost all hope of having any ability to fix my own petty little personal problems, let alone doing things that advance me toward goals i wish to accomplish. I've become hopeless. G was right, you can't do it yourself. That idea has always bothered me; what kind of "loving" God would make a creature that could not find his way back to him on his own?...but I know, I know...he didn't make just one creature...he made many, and its become painfully obvious to me now that we need each others help. ( Please excuse the male "god" ref's...it's an old thought from when i still believed) ....sorry, i'm going off track..
Anyway, I may be projecting my own hopelessness onto the word itself... and maybe Trudell and Bagent were too?..I don't know...
Thanks, Dave