How Not To Be

[anart]

For some people, being around the Truth and others who hold nothing more valuable than the Truth - most especially as applied to the self - allows every part of them to breathe. It IS a vacation from the insanity of this planet.

That wouldn't change the human facts of the matter: people get on each others nerves, and can benefit from a 'walk-about' periodically.

Also, this brings something Gurdjieff said to mind:

The greatest ′intentional suffering′ can be obtained in our presences by compelling ourselves to endure the displeasing manifestations of others toward ourselves.

In other words, a lot can be learned by others 'getting on your nerves' if you're really interested in learning about the self because almost always the issue is with the self, not others. With that said, as Laura just wrote, the environment there is usually so positive that it's a rare occurrence anyway.

 

[Laura]

For some people, being around the Truth and others who hold nothing more valuable than the Truth - most especially as applied to the self - allows every part of them to breathe. It IS a vacation from the insanity of this planet.

That wouldn't change the human facts of the matter: people get on each others nerves, and can benefit from a 'walk-about' periodically.

Actually, when someone is "getting on another person's nerves", it is dealt with directly rather than by going away from it. It is quite simple to say "for some reason, I'm in a state where what you are saying or doing is really bugging me... let's talk about it and find out what's up." And then, you talk about it and find out if it is some state in the one feeling irritated or if the one doing the irritating is actually being covertly aggressive in some way.

Of course, there are people who have come here who "get irritated" and are unable to confront either their own irritation or discuss it with the person doing the irritation. They are stuck in "normal life niceties" that dictate that such things are just normal and "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" and so forth.

Also, if a person is involved in a project and needs concentration, everyone else gives them space, makes no demands on them, makes sure they get fed and watered, and listens when they let off steam. The only rule is that if you are going to let off steam, say so in advance: "I'm gonna rant!" and that you should be able to control yourself sufficiently that you can stop in mid-rant and speak normally in analyzing your rant if asked to do so.

As Anart points out, it is heavy duty esoteric feed-back work that goes on 24 hours a day, pretty much. Not everyone is cut out for it, but believe me, it has incredible benefits in terms of what the Cs referred to as "connecting chakras".

 

[Gimpy]

A vacation, in my understanding, is a trip to get away from people and into nature, where there is no technology or other 'monkey-business'. Its a total 'culture break.' That kind of break lets every part of a person 'breathe'.


No, not a "vacation from the truth"...a vacation from constant scrutiny. (The only 'vacations from truth' I'm aware of are not healthy examples. Besides...does that actually happen? How does a person do that without cracking their heads open?)

That sense of scrutiny can vary with the person, dependent on level of awareness.


Is it a sign of pathology to tire of constant scrutiny of whatever kind?

Nobody is under constant scrutiny. The size of the house and property make each person able to have their own space and withdraw whenever they want/need to. Plus, going for walks, bike rides, making trips here or there to do various things, also comes with the territory. But then, when a person seeks to withdraw a majority of the time and do not WANT to interact with others, it does get noticed.

The plain fact is that all of us here ENJOY each others' company enormously and we enjoy the heck out of discussing things with total openness, no games, no pretense, each being perfectly willing to hear another say "oh, that's just a narrative you are making up because it makes you feel better..." responding with: "Yeah, you are right... so, what is the truth...?" and on it goes. Everything is said with kindness and concern, but still, straightforward and without manipulation. Obviously, people who thrive on being covert and manipulating do not survive such an atmosphere very well.

That makes sense. It also sounds 'too good to be true'.

What's up with that? (Meaning...why do I think this?)

 

[anart]

That makes sense. It also sounds 'too good to be true'.

What's up with that? (Meaning...why do I think this?)

Could it be a little crab bucket action going on?

Ultimately, all it is is people being Real with each other and working hard on themselves to do so.

 

[Gimpy]

Actually, when someone is "getting on another person's nerves", it is dealt with directly rather than by going away from it. It is quite simple to say "for some reason, I'm in a state where what you are saying or doing is really bugging me... let's talk about it and find out what's up." And then, you talk about it and find out if it is some state in the one feeling irritated or if the one doing the irritating is actually being covertly aggressive in some way.

Of course, there are people who have come here who "get irritated" and are unable to confront either their own irritation or discuss it with the person doing the irritation. They are stuck in "normal life niceties" that dictate that such things are just normal and "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" and so forth.

Also, if a person is involved in a project and needs concentration, everyone else gives them space, makes no demands on them, makes sure they get fed and watered, and listens when they let off steam. The only rule is that if you are going to let off steam, say so in advance: "I'm gonna rant!" and that you should be able to control yourself sufficiently that you can stop in mid-rant and speak normally in analyzing your rant if asked to do so.

This sounds like my married life here, writ larger, without the snoring.

Of course, there are people who have come here who "get irritated" and are unable to confront either their own irritation or discuss it with the person doing the irritation. They are stuck in "normal life niceties" that dictate that such things are just normal and "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" and so forth.

Yeah, that would be whenever I leave the house, get groceries etc.

Home here, is much like your house there, though I'd say its not as 'rooted', as there's just the two of us + fur kids.

Kind of makes me wonder where my passport is. ;)

 

[Gimpy]

That makes sense. It also sounds 'too good to be true'.

What's up with that? (Meaning...why do I think this?)

Could it be a little crab bucket action going on?

Ultimately, all it is is people being Real with each other and working hard on themselves to do so.

Yep.

It also sounds like married life. Hard work, worth it, but lost on the majority of other people. :D

 

[loreta]

The life in the Chateau and the group seems to me one of the most interesting experiences that a person can have. Why don't write a book about it? :)

Just reading this thread is educational.

Surely the characters of Survivors would learn a lot living with a group like yours.

 

[Laura]

The life in the Chateau and the group seems to me one of the most interesting experiences that a person can have. Why don't write a book about it? :)

Just reading this thread is educational.

Surely the characters of Survivors would learn a lot living with a group like yours.

We have discussed writing a book about it, a sort of guide, so that others who might be in similar situations will have a few clues by which to help sort out their issues and/or identify pathology. In this sense, sometimes the pathology is relational, not individual, simply because it is not understood how to work through a situation. In others, it is the pathology of an individual that "poisons" everything else. We call it "a disturbance in the force" and we have ALL become extremely sensitive to it. Sometimes, a person can be in the house as a guest who does absolutely nothing out of the ordinary or that anyone can pin down, but there is still a "disturbance". Usually, after awhile, we figure out what it is.

Sometimes forum/group members come to spend some time with us and it is really interesting to notice who is and who is not able to get a running start and get on the rapidly spinning merry-go-round of life here and contribute without creating a "disturbance in the force." It's sort of a testimony to their awareness that they see how things are done immediately, assess what they can do that is most helpful, and do it efficiently without a big deal or demanding approbation. Others require constant monitoring, constantly have to be asked to do things because they just stand around twiddling their thumbs. Some come thinking that it's a holiday house and we are here to wait on them. So it is VERY instructive, separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

We have discussed writing a book about it, a sort of guide, so that others who might be in similar situations will have a few clues by which to help sort out their issues and/or identify pathology.

That would make for a very interesting book indeed! Who knows, maybe in the future we will need to live in small communities and having such a manual would be invaluable. I used to hope (wishfully think?) that such future communities could be guided by this forum's elders, but let's face it, that's probably not very realistic...

 

[Menna]

"And what if learning how not to be run by ones own irritations with others is part of the process of becoming Real? Then going on a 'walk-about' rather destroys the whole point..."

I have noticed this in terms of "The Work" whenever something or someone annoys me this is an indication when and where the work should/can be applied. I remember the C's saying something like - one of the goals is to play your instrument while everyone else is out of tune. I always try to keep this is mind.

Also if you are taking a break are you really taking a break?... Once you take the Red Pill can you ever really go back/take a break?... If you were to stop reading or posting on the forum for a week or so I bet something relating to "The Work" is on your mind even though you might not be activly participating in it at the moment. You are still involved in some manner. Also people have and I have noticed the way I talk/act has changed so if you aren't using "The Work" you are still a product of it and carry it around with you when you are on your "breaks".

Sometimes I will put down and walk away from a heavy esoteric or psychology book that I am in the middle of reading only to come back to it later in order to let my understanding/being catch up to the information but then again its not really taking a break it is more re calibrating/balancing IMO

 

[istina]

We have discussed writing a book about it, a sort of guide, so that others who might be in similar situations will have a few clues by which to help sort out their issues and/or identify pathology.

That would make for a very interesting book indeed! Who knows, maybe in the future we will need to live in small communities and having such a manual would be invaluable. I used to hope (wishfully think?) that such future communities could be guided by this forum's elders, but let's face it, that's probably not very realistic...

That is exactly what I was thinking about ! I just hope that Laura and others will find enough time for this project too

 

[Gaby]

What Laura said, that I've hardly suffered a day in my life in any significant way snapped something out of me. I then felt it coming slowly back again and had made an effort to stay without it. Without knowing if my efforts are yet more lies, I would like to share my issues here with everybody for feedback or learning purposes. Whatever I don't bring up, I hope it will come out one way or the other.

When I put my mind in something, considered it done no matter the difficulty. It is just a matter of time while I screen the environment and find a way. Where there is a will there is a way kind of thing. For example, I went to med school and the program was setup as such, that it was "impossible" to do the basic medical sciences in the allotted time: 3 months. My father told me that I was going to fail and that was okay, I was allowed to repeat the failed classes the next time around. My genuine response was that of bafflement. I took all the classes and by the end of the 3 months, I was able not only to pass them, but to pass all of them with honors. For the most difficult class, anatomy, I set the Uni record of 100% perfect score. I didn't knew that was going to happen, I just basically got busy in doing things, period.

So deep down inside of me, I know I can do things without any problem at all. The problem is, as far as I can see, is that I apply the same will force to elicit sympathy through self-pity. But not only that, I am capable of applying so much brute force that I have been pretty cold and calculating. The instances when I see the later, I ran-off by identifying strongly with self pity to the point that my posture changes along with all my behavior.

Poor me, I'm a foreigner without the appropriate legal papers, never mind that I had lived in 5 countries and withhold two passports. No country has ever seen a problem in hosting me. Or poor me, I don't have enough language skills. Never mind that I know 4 languages and almost 5. Or poor me, I don't have what it takes. Never mind that I could have my own personal Guinness Record for being the youngest woman heart surgeon and in a foreign country. Or poor me, life is so difficult! Never mind that deep down inside of me, I know the only thing required is in me and external details are really not an issue when it comes down to it.

Not only the facts speak for themselves, but also, the self-pity feeling that was prompting me to get sympathy, was the very same energy I could have used my whole life to change my perceived situation or do the very things that would stop the self-pity that I saw myself so justified to be in. In short, I have chosen to invest my will in self-pity because doing otherwise will put an end to it.

Today, I made a concerted effort to act without self-pity the whole day while I was in the hospital. It seems people like me less without it, although that could be a wrong perception. I brought-up more important issues to colleagues in one day than in 4 months I've been here because I was not afraid of them. It seemed to me that people respected me more which seemed to trigger more of the same "squirrely" feelings.

Then, I look at those squirrely feelings and its self-pity consequences and then realize that it is precisely that which have prevented me from actually being there, present in the right moment. The energy that I spend in trying to elicit sympathy that has worked so well my entire life feels like the energy that has made my life not work.

I don't know how to describe the feeling or which word to use for my reaction of realizing that I had accomplished everything I had put my mind on and that I haven't accomplished what was worthwhile, but on the contrary. That plus realizing I have what it takes to stop doing the later.

I have read carefully what each one of you have written and it feels like I don't feel compelled to justify myself anymore. Although I might be fooling myself yet again. I have received mirrors before which I didn't understood because down the road, the "squirrelly" feelings came back again or pretty much always stayed. But I'm tired of running away.

 

[Jones]

Is the self pity and sympathy seeking a way to attract attention to your accomplishments, but in a self depreciating way?

I may be way off, but the above post kind of reads that way to me. Just trying to understand where you're coming from though.

What are the 'squirrely' feelings? Can you elaborate?

At the moment I'm taking that to mean an uncertainty or discomfort - but I'm not sure.

 

[OrangeScorpion]

Psyche, I wish you much strength and perseverance during this difficult lesson...

 

[Z...]

I have read carefully what each one of you have written and it feels like I don't feel compelled to justify myself anymore. Although I might be fooling myself yet again. I have received mirrors before which I didn't understood because down the road, the "squirrelly" feelings came back again or pretty much always stayed. But I'm tired of running away.

Hi Psyche,
The way I see it, it all boils down to one's aims. With all this happening recently in your life have you taken time to seriously examine what is it that you expect from life? The way I see it our actions follow our aims, whether we are aware of them or not.
Recently you posted great Og Mandino's quote and I am really grateful you did so because it came at exactly the right moment in my micro cosmos.

Remember this bit:
"My dreams are worthless, my plans are dust, my goals are impossible. All are of no value unless they are followed by action. I will act now. Never has there been a map, however carefully executed to detail and scale, which carried its owner over even one inch of ground. Never has there been a parchment of law, however fair, which prevented one crime. Never has there been a scroll, even such as the one I hold, which earned so much as a penny or produced a single word of acclamation. Action, alone, is the tinder which ignites the map, the parchment, this scroll, my dreams, my plans, my goals, into a living force. Action is the food and drink which will nourish my success.
I will action now."

Perhaps this should be read in reverse.
It is clear that you don't have problems accomplishing most of the things you set your mind to. Could it be you are not sincere with yourself when it comes to your main aim? Or you never took the time to seriously examine this.
My 5 cents FWIW.