How Not To Be

[shellycheval]

Anart

Quote from: shellycheval on Yesterday at 05:13:36 PM

almost a desperation to help (to put her focus on others rather than herself),

Perhaps it's more that she was trying to put the focus on herself in a positive way. If she posts using others quotes as her own in order to appear to have all the answers and be the wise and giving Psyche, then that's a lot of positive attention coming her way. Your response to her was glowing praise, which can be quite a motivator. Just something to consider.

Yes--it is clearly something to think about. Although I have learned to be quite wary and suspicious of strangers, MSM, promises from the boss, and other cultural BS, I continue to find it difficult to always be adequately discerning of people I like or are grateful towards, tending to view them with a positive regard most of the time and sometimes reserve suspicion when I should be more critically observant. I am figuring out that being discerning is not a black or white, either/or process--that there is a third way, a neutral way of observing, even those I care about, with an objective view to the reality of the situation. While I have known this intellectually for a long time, that it is OK and helpful for us and them, to see the people we feel positive about through the clear lens of objective reality, I am still learning to put that into practical experience in my communications with them and others on a continual basis. It is still hit or miss with me on whether or not I will see through a person's motives, if that person is someone who I have positive feelings for. I hope I am expressing myself clearly--it is the end of a long day at work.
shelllycheval

 

[Oxajil]

So deep down inside of me, I know I can do things without any problem at all.

If you know you can do things without any problem, then why did you use quotes and act as if they were yours? If you were to write a paper and do that, that would be regarded as plagiarism. At the university here they are pretty strict on that, and I would think the same is practiced in medical school. But even if that wasn't the case, I still think it's not fair to put up a misleading representation of yourself. You wrote:

"In not using my own voice, I just make things worse for everybody involved. Much less to the lies I believed that I wasn't allowed to use my own voice." Why would you think you weren't allowed to use your own voice? I mean, you had a blog, wrote articles, help people with dietary issues and you cited your sources. So I don't know, it kind of sounds like you made something up to justify your behavior, and saying that you weren't ''allowed'' kind of puts the blame on something or someone else, rather than to take responsibility yourself.

I may be misunderstanding, so fwiw.

 

[Hesper]

What Laura said, that I've hardly suffered a day in my life in any significant way snapped something out of me. I then felt it coming slowly back again and had made an effort to stay without it. Without knowing if my efforts are yet more lies, I would like to share my issues here with everybody for feedback or learning purposes. Whatever I don't bring up, I hope it will come out one way or the other.

The rest of your post was either really vague unless it was outright bragging, Psyche. "What you didn't bring up" was anything dealing with what you're avoiding right now, in a meaningful way. As Anart said,

Just so you know, you're not fooling anyone with it - it's really, really obvious.

and

Try “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

 

[Windmill knight]

What Laura said, that I've hardly suffered a day in my life in any significant way snapped something out of me. I then felt it coming slowly back again and had made an effort to stay without it. Without knowing if my efforts are yet more lies, I would like to share my issues here with everybody for feedback or learning purposes. Whatever I don't bring up, I hope it will come out one way or the other.

The rest of your post was either really vague unless it was outright bragging, Psyche. "What you didn't bring up" was anything dealing with what you're avoiding right now, in a meaningful way.

Indeed. Perhaps Psyche has trouble seeing this herself, in which case it might be a good idea for her to consider her actions alone as if she was someone else, ignoring all her theories and internal feelings of self-pity/hurt? Particularly those actions that affect others directly.

 

[John G]

If you know you can do things without any problem, then why did you use quotes and act as if they were yours? If you were to write a paper and do that, that would be regarded as plagiarism. At the university here they are pretty strict on that, and I would think the same is practiced in medical school... Why would you think you weren't allowed to use your own voice? I mean, you had a blog, wrote articles, help people with dietary issues and you cited your sources. So I don't know, it kind of sounds like you made something up to justify your behavior, and saying that you weren't ''allowed'' kind of puts the blame on something or someone else, rather than to take responsibility yourself.

Yeah and I think Psyche's discussion of Jung's animus shows she can handle doing a research paper-like treatment of something personal. I was thinking she was just going to say using her journal messed her up from the way she'd normally handle things; that "own voice" thing confused me too (though I don't know her) since it's not even overly required to use a blog-like voice, you can just let the sources do a lot of the talking. For the animus discussion, Psyche used quotes (with quote tags) just fine. I can have self introspection problems especially in mirroring-like situations so I know it can be good to spend time seeing more clearly how your situation might fit with known research.

 

[Menna]

"Poor me, I'm a foreigner without the appropriate legal papers, never mind that I had lived in 5 countries and withhold two passports. No country has ever seen a problem in hosting me. Or poor me, I don't have enough language skills. Never mind that I know 4 languages and almost 5. Or poor me, I don't have what it takes. Never mind that I could have my own personal Guinness Record for being the youngest woman heart surgeon and in a foreign country. Or poor me, life is so difficult!"

I don't take this as bragging... She recognizes the inconsistency in herself - It doesn't make sense that she pity's herself because she has so many accomplishments recognizing how someone who uses self pity usually doesn't have these credentials and its inconsistent with what she has accomplished in her life.

 

[Hesper]

"Poor me, I'm a foreigner without the appropriate legal papers, never mind that I had lived in 5 countries and withhold two passports. No country has ever seen a problem in hosting me. Or poor me, I don't have enough language skills. Never mind that I know 4 languages and almost 5. Or poor me, I don't have what it takes. Never mind that I could have my own personal Guinness Record for being the youngest woman heart surgeon and in a foreign country. Or poor me, life is so difficult!"

I don't take this as bragging... She recognizes the inconsistency in herself - It doesn't make sense that she pity's herself because she has so many accomplishments recognizing how someone who uses self pity usually doesn't have these credentials and its inconsistent with what she has accomplished in her life.

Anyone can fall into self-pity. It doesn't matter if they're the Queen of Jupiter or a bum, OSIT. It's just the STSness we all share, our attempt to feel special and chosen, so there really is no inconsistency at all. It's completely consistent with our being food for the moon, I think.

 

[Jones]

"Poor me, I'm a foreigner without the appropriate legal papers, never mind that I had lived in 5 countries and withhold two passports. No country has ever seen a problem in hosting me. Or poor me, I don't have enough language skills. Never mind that I know 4 languages and almost 5. Or poor me, I don't have what it takes. Never mind that I could have my own personal Guinness Record for being the youngest woman heart surgeon and in a foreign country. Or poor me, life is so difficult!"

I don't take this as bragging... She recognizes the inconsistency in herself - It doesn't make sense that she pity's herself because she has so many accomplishments recognizing how someone who uses self pity usually doesn't have these credentials and its inconsistent with what she has accomplished in her life.

That may be more true for a male than a female though and I don't see it being about bragging as it is about conflict between seeking acknowledgement and apology. I've seen accomplished women feign weakness or use pity ploys as a kind of distraction from their accomplishments, or an apology for them in an attempt to avoid upsetting the status quo or expecting attack or disproval from both men and women especially in male dominated fields.

Some women also use similar tactics to be relieved of or be rescued from some of the responsibilities of the positions that their accomplishments afford them....to get others to do the dirty work for them, or to otherwise mitigate the consequences of their actions both in the instances of successes and failures.

Psyche is brilliant in her own field, but even her father, who one would assume had some idea of Psyches potential, expected her to fail from the outset. Perhaps there are qualities that Psyche has that her parents felt fell outside of the stereotypical role for a female and they either refused to see them, were unable to deal with them, or acted in some way to quash. Perhaps the will that Psyche speaks of is the very quality that some men and women would find threatening in a woman.

So playing on weakness either real or constructed can be a way of distracting others from those qualities that they find threatening.

Under the influence of the above there may be ways in which Psyche feels that her accomplishments are not real.

 

[Gwenllian]

I have read carefully what each one of you have written and it feels like I don't feel compelled to justify myself anymore. Although I might be fooling myself yet again. I have received mirrors before which I didn't understood because down the road, the "squirrelly" feelings came back again or pretty much always stayed. But I'm tired of running away.

Why do you think you have to justify yourself? I don't think that it is the case here. You have the chance to look into the mirror and study carefully what you see.

And I was thinking about your outrage, Psyche. Peter Levine writes in 'In an Unspoken Voice' that we can become addicted to the feeling of outrage. I can certainly vouch for that. I was stuck in that morass of outrage, blaming others and agression for a long, long time. I still struggle with it from time to time. I get impatient very easily, especially with my kids.
Also, I was wondering whether you are afraid of suffering. Are you running away from it? Can I remind you of Peter Levine who speaks of 'islands of safety' during the process?
I think that the body with its infinite wisdom never gives us more than we can handle. I have gone through moments where I thought I was surely going to drown when feelings and images of abuse would wash over me, but I never did. I always came out on top.

After I had started therapy I was once lying in my bed when this hurricane of fear swept over me. It was so strong and so vivid that I actually thought that it would sweep away me and my baby who was sleeping next to me. But of course, this wasn't the case. The hurricane passed and the next morning I was as right as rain. Ever since that moment I have been less frightened. That is how we work through things, OSIT.

Laura, did you all know that you had a MI6 agent living with you for so long? :O
He reminds me of my ex, who had to go to Germany and visit his family every month. But what he did was drink and meet other women.

Gimpy, I am not married, but I live with my two kids and they are huge mirrors for me, especially my youngest son and when they were younger. I have never wanted to take a holiday away from them, because I wanted to become a better mother than mine was ASAP. Because I could see that if I didn't work hard at myself all the time I would only turn out to be a copy of my mother and I would have put my children at risk more. And this is the first time in my life that I have been part of a loving home, despite the harsh lessons I have been given in that very home.

I can never escape annoying people and situations. People complain loud and hard about me when they walk past my house, but that doesn't change if I would take a break. It is a lesson I still need to learn. How to deal with people that are obnoxious and talk about me without even knowing me. But I am getting better at it. :D And I want to get better at it!

 

[Muxel]

I read Psyche's "compassion" post when I was weak and I wanted some device to "save me", i.e. do the work of achieving Grail consciousness for me. Perhaps it was a reflection of what I sought that she had "edited" out such things as "adult intercession" and "self-control", thus turning it into misinformation. It is in error to grasp at one straw and attempt to crystallize around it in the hope that it will carry you through... true Objectivity is not "invested" in anything.

I understand "how" she did it, though. I have done the same, but in a different medium, called "fanfiction". The process goes: take what you "like" from a book/film/serial, then use it to realize your own fantasy on paper. I think it could be Gurdjieffanly described as abuse of the centers...?

"And yet it moves" - Eppur si muove, Galileo allegedly said. (He probably did not, which is rather a blow to the story's romantic appeal. That's reality for you.) Reality is there, nonetheless, notwithstanding!

Psyche, I don't know why you were looking around for compassion/etc. books but I hope you will ultimately find what you seek not in the form of a neurochemical rush, but in Love, which is Light, which is Knowledge.

But otherwise, it should be understood that there are quite a few people who just couldn't cut the mustard living in a high-stress environment where literally everything is open and there are no sacred cows. If you screw up, it gets discussed at breakfast, if you are obviously lying to yourself, you get told to your face in a matter of fact way, if your behavior is making everyone else miserable, you get called on it and suggestions are made as to how to master yourself. Not everyone can deal with that.

Like a "spoiled" child who was badly brought up, sent to stay "at Laura's place" for a couple of weeks...! But he will have left the better for it, I suppose.

 

[Laura]

Indeed. Perhaps Psyche has trouble seeing this herself, in which case it might be a good idea for her to consider her actions alone as if she was someone else, ignoring all her theories and internal feelings of self-pity/hurt? Particularly those actions that affect others directly.

Exactly. That's the whole thing. She needs to observe her actions alone, as if she were observing and analyzing a complete stranger, with the sound/thoughts/justifications turned off. The key is to "see yourself as others see you". As all the cognitive science we have read points out, the assessments of outsiders who are not privy to our thoughts and justifications, most often are the most accurate. They evaluate what is really going on in System 1 much better than we can BECAUSE they are not blinded and hornswoggled by all the emotional thinking that is going on.

This is the point of self-observing and getting the centers to work with their own energy, incidentally.

 

[Chu]

Psyche, it was pointed out that you were having self-pity, and suddenly you write as if you had known this all along. It was pointed out to you that you had been quoting from others in a manipulative way, and suddenly you talk about "your voice". Your lack of honestly simply makes one not want to give you any feedback, if all you do with it is repeat it.

Is that also a "change in tactics"? That's not how it works. You can't "change" anything until you see it. Your changing attitude at the hospital also reads as "this is what I'll do next, to see what I can get". Always getting, always about you. You can't fool anybody. Passing medical tests is no proof of anything. It's just being able to regurgitate information, to repeat, once again.

So, can you get a bit real without plotting a next "attitude"? Maybe that way you can get somewhere.

 

[Gertrudes]

Psyche is brilliant in her own field, but even her father, who one would assume had some idea of Psyches potential, expected her to fail from the outset. Perhaps there are qualities that Psyche has that her parents felt fell outside of the stereotypical role for a female and they either refused to see them, were unable to deal with them, or acted in some way to quash. Perhaps the will that Psyche speaks of is the very quality that some men and women would find threatening in a woman.

So playing on weakness either real or constructed can be a way of distracting others from those qualities that they find threatening.

Although that may be true, I think that focusing on it right now can further entrench Psyche in blaming others rather then taking responsibility herself. While it is true that it's important and useful to understand what in our past may hold the root for our present behavior and inner attitude, and in certain cases even having others acknowledging that, we then have to let go and move on to take responsibility for who we are now, and who we want to be.

Psyche is showing a lack of wanting to take the driver's seat, as I see it, and if she does indeed wish to change, she needs not to look back, but to look at herself, as she is right now, take full responsibility for whom she is and change.

When I put my mind in something, considered it done no matter the difficulty.

Psyche, considering your willpower, I think that should you really want to change and drop the self pity, that very feeling would have eaten you from inside out. It would have burned so much that you could not have stand yourself, the way you are, for a minute longer.

I would suggest you to consider the above for a moment and really listen to the feedback given, rather then giving a straight answer corroborating what everyone's saying. Let it sink down inside you and try to understand what is it that you really want, you may believe that you want something but your actions are not showing that, which equates to a lie to self. Nothing new there, we have all done it, or still do it, but right now you have been given the gift of having said lie exposed to you.

 

[seek10]

So, can you get a bit real without plotting a next "attitude"? Maybe that way you can get somewhere.

after reading the thread I get the impression that self pity doesn't explain all the things that happened in this thread.

 

[Gimpy]

From Mariama:

Gimpy, I am not married, but I live with my two kids and they are huge mirrors for me, especially my youngest son and when they were younger. I have never wanted to take a holiday away from them, because I wanted to become a better mother than mine was ASAP. Because I could see that if I didn't work hard at myself all the time I would only turn out to be a copy of my mother and I would have put my children at risk more. And this is the first time in my life that I have been part of a loving home, despite the harsh lessons I have been given in that very home.

The reality of parenting is there is no 'doing it better', just 'doing the best you can'. When that equals healthier than what you knew, thats the goal to work for.

I can never escape annoying people and situations. People complain loud and hard about me when they walk past my house, but that doesn't change if I would take a break. It is a lesson I still need to learn. How to deal with people that are obnoxious and talk about me without even knowing me. But I am getting better at it. :D And I want to get better at it!

I think there's a misunderstanding as to why I think taking vacations is a good thing? Its not to 'escape' as much as to rest and recharge.

From Ailen:

Psyche, it was pointed out that you were having self-pity, and suddenly you write as if you had known this all along. It was pointed out to you that you had been quoting from others in a manipulative way, and suddenly you talk about "your voice". Your lack of honestly simply makes one not want to give you any feedback, if all you do with it is repeat it.

Now that you're aware of the above Psyche, how do you intend to change it?