Intense sadness

[Arreis13]

Hello Trajan. Over the past three years I have been dealing with episodes of overwhelming saddness and I do know it is because I am without my daughter due to a very involved custody case. I struggle to find the positive side of things to get through the really hard days. I am shy and well abit of a loner and I have a hard time even talking about my pains etc so I write a lot. It helps me and I think it helps those around me because I spare them from putting my problems on them? I have found a way to get through those times even though the pain is as painful as when it began. This is just something I need to learn from and I will. ;)

 

[Esote]

Intense sadness for me comes from realizing how false and foolish is our present human world, and myself by the way. And how little I can do about it.
Actually it is when starts the urge for the Work on oneself, in service to others.

Lasting and repetitive sadness shows you that there's something wrong and that it is really time to act upon it.
Bad diet and habits, egotism, ignorance, procrastination... There's a lot to deal with; it can be overwhelming and discouraging unless you focus on one step at a time. To know if you are making progress, don't look forward but backward, in perspective of where you're coming from. And be detached of the end result, it doesn't belong to us alone. We are what we are, at least it seems so. That's our stepping-stone from where to go higher, if only we take a first step !

Hope it can help a little

 

[JonnyRadar]

I want a relationship because I am ready to settle down, have kids, grow up.

Hi Trajan. :) For what it's worth, this statement raised a red flag while I was reading your post. Have you deeply asked yourself why you want children? Do you equate that with "growing up"? Have you considered everything that goes into this statement?

Personally, I would suggest reading Trapped in the Mirror - _http://www.amazon.com/Trapped-Mirror-Children-Narcissists-Struggle/dp/0688140718/ - that book had a lot to do with changing what "I think I want"...

 

[history]

Maybe this thread will be helpful, Trajan?

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28079.0.html

All the best to you.

 

[Trajan]

As Prometeo mentioned, diet can relate to this in a big way. We’re basically just big chemistry sets and it’s very easy to get your brain chemistry thrown out of whack and then suffer the consequences, withdrawal, mood swings, sadness, depression and the rest.

Very good point as when this happened I had strayed from the Paleo/keto eating eating that I normally follow and imbibed alcohol/ate junk food such as pizza. I figured that this was a major portion of why it took place but thought I would bring the subject up anyway since I have noticed it for well over a decade. Definitely as a child I ate a lot of junk food (no alcohol of course) but now as an adult I eat a million times better but I do imbibe from time to time.

Continuous knowledge input as Carlise said.

Another valid point as I tend to procrastinate what I know must be done or what I know I want to do. After a few hours/days/weeks of this or however long I let it go I feel absolutely terrible for not taking action and making my life the best that I can make it.

Friends can be great, but like mentioned earlier, maybe the relatiopships aren't based on respect

I feel there is respect involved but yes I have also had those "friends" who were not friends at all but instead manipulative users and abusers. And yes perhaps I should step away.

I have had to spend too much time with non-collinear people

Can you define non-collinear vs collinear these terms are new to me on these forums.

 

[Jacques]

Can you define non-collinear vs collinear these terms are new to me on these forums.

Have a look here: http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Colinearity

By the way, this glossary is very useful . ;)

 

[Trajan]

Those intense sadness episodes hit me in times when I still didn't know what I want with my life.

Everything that you said in this post resonated with me, I most assuredly feel like I am at some sort of cross roads in life. It has seemed to me for a very long time that the way I approach/view life is different from the average Joe and this can leave me wanting at time. To pursue it can mean to abandon friends/companionship (albeit shallow at times) however to ignore it and follow the herd also leaves me wanting, like I am not being the best that I can be. That I am wasting time on trivial matters following the pattern that so many other people follow and that I loath on a certain level.

We don't have the luxury of colinear people being immediately visible to us in ordinary life, so we have to try and walk a balance between fitting in (to avoid rousing the zombies and creating conflict) and being the Socratic gadfly probing people for signs of awareness and consciousness and thirst for truth.

Hammer meet Nail.

Hello Trajan. Over the past three years I have been dealing with episodes of overwhelming saddness and I do know it is because I am without my daughter due to a very involved custody case. I struggle to find the positive side of things to get through the really hard days. I am shy and well abit of a loner and I have a hard time even talking about my pains etc so I write a lot.

I am the same way to a small extent, perhaps I will take up writing as well I have been meaning to write a book for years and never seem to get started.

Lasting and repetitive sadness shows you that there's something wrong and that it is really time to act upon it.

I agree, this is where the procrastination kicks in. I tend to be very hard on myself, negative, and often times will see so many different variables that I get paralyzed with information overload and do not/cannot act.

Hi Trajan. :) For what it's worth, this statement raised a red flag while I was reading your post. Have you deeply asked yourself why you want children? Do you equate that with "growing up"? Have you considered everything that goes into this statement?

I just know that I do, maybe its a biological urge or something. I do know that I go against the grain versus many peoples thoughts on children.

They want to party like they are in high school well into there 30's, don't want to spend the money, only want one if any at all etc etc. I truly feel that many people who prescribe to the modern Western thought processes in regards to children (especially women) will one day wake up childless and alone on the wrong side of 40.


Edit=Quotes

 

[Nienna]

Hi Trajan. :) For what it's worth, this statement raised a red flag while I was reading your post. Have you deeply asked yourself why you want children? Do you equate that with "growing up"? Have you considered everything that goes into this statement?

I just know that I do, maybe its a biological urge or something. I do know that I go against the grain versus many peoples thoughts on children.

They want to party like they are in high school well into there 30's, don't want to spend the money, only want one if any at all etc etc. I truly feel that many people who prescribe to the modern Western thought processes in regards to children (especially women) will one day wake up childless and alone on the wrong side of 40.

Maybe what you should ask yourself is, "Do I want a child for myself, to make me feel a certain way? Or do I want a child for the child's sake?" In other words, are you doing it only for yourself, for selfish (STS) reasons, or do you see some benefit for a child born to you?

The way the world is today, and what some see coming, how would bringing a child into this world benefit the child?

I know that there are some positive answers to that question. But from what I've seen of most people who have a child, it was a completely selfish act and the child paid for that.

fwiw

 

[history]

They want to party like they are in high school well into there 30's, don't want to spend the money, only want one if any at all etc etc. I truly feel that many people who prescribe to the modern Western thought processes in regards to children (especially women) will one day wake up childless and alone on the wrong side of 40.

This sounds very much to me like you are equating a child with what is wrong in your life, as if a child will magically fix you, make you grow up, make you different from your friends that are making immature choices in your eyes, and will somehow make you whole. Those are exactly the reasons NOT to have a child, imho.

Fwiw.

 

[Trajan]

This sounds very much to me like you are equating a child with what is wrong in your life, as if a child will magically fix you, make you grow up, make you different from your friends that are making immature choices in your eyes, and will somehow make you whole. Those are exactly the reasons NOT to have a child, imho.

Fwiw.

I appreciated your input but I do not feel that this is the case.

 

[cubbex]

Funny, I seem to have the opposite experience. If I hang around with non-colinear people, I am SO RELIEVED to get away because it is draining to pretend to be interested in things that simply do not interest me. And I thank my lucky stars that I am not stuck in the same kinds of nowhere lives that they live with no objectives except to believe the lies that they can work at a generally meaningless job that probably contributes to the destruction of human values or the planet, get retirement, enjoy the grandkids, and actually achieve any real meaning that way.

So, if you yearn for all those things and it makes you sad to not have them, go for it!

This is so true. But is harder to start applying it without knowing that is a pointless way of living, society makes you feel alienated and hardly you find people with that point of view.

 

[Turgon]

I just know that I do, maybe its a biological urge or something. I do know that I go against the grain versus many peoples thoughts on children.

They want to party like they are in high school well into there 30's, don't want to spend the money, only want one if any at all etc etc. I truly feel that many people who prescribe to the modern Western thought processes in regards to children (especially women) will one day wake up childless and alone on the wrong side of 40.

It sure seems that by saying the above you are seeing children as a means to fill a gap of loneliness within you. Most people go with the grain by following these biological urges, which do exist for a reason, to propagate the species. But by engaging our higher functions and taking a look around us, do you really think it's in their best interests to bring a child into this world knowing the way it is and where the human race is headed? Psychopathology, environmental and food toxins, cultural and educational programming, planetary changes. All these things are reaching critical mass at this point in history. Just something to think about...

 

[Esote]

...
It sure seems that by saying the above you are seeing children as a means to fill a gap of loneliness within you. Most people go with the grain by following these biological urges, which do exist for a reason, to propagate the species. But by engaging our higher functions and taking a look around us, do you really think it's in their best interests to bring a child into this world knowing the way it is and where the human race is headed? Psychopathology, environmental and food toxins, cultural and educational programming, planetary changes. All these things are reaching critical mass at this point in history. Just something to think about...

...
This sounds very much to me like you are equating a child with what is wrong in your life, as if a child will magically fix you, make you grow up, make you different from your friends that are making immature choices in your eyes, and will somehow make you whole. Those are exactly the reasons NOT to have a child, imho.

...
Maybe what you should ask yourself is, "Do I want a child for myself, to make me feel a certain way? Or do I want a child for the child's sake?" In other words, are you doing it only for yourself, for selfish (STS) reasons, or do you see some benefit for a child born to you?

The way the world is today, and what some see coming, how would bringing a child into this world benefit the child?

I know that there are some positive answers to that question. But from what I've seen of most people who have a child, it was a completely selfish act and the child paid for that.

These comments are raising questions about fundamental issues.
Conservation and reproduction are essential instincts, a basic programming.
We may choose not to reproduce ourselves for very good reasons. Or choose to go with the flow of life the way it's supposed to be, depending on our natures.
There might be as much or even more egoism in not willing to give birth to any child than in bringing a child into this world.
It's true that "Psychopathology, environmental and food toxins, cultural and educational programming, planetary changes. All these things are reaching critical mass at this point in history". But, has there ever been a "good" time to have children ?
And what if intense sadness comes from not realizing a need deeply anchored, so much that you can't extract it, unless you kill (part of) yourself ?
Will it add anything to anyone when somebody is alone, sad and feeling worthless, because this person is missing its aim, which in this case is taking care of its own kids ?
No one can answer for another one !
Life appeal, free will, conscience, ego, reality... there is a lot to learn

My 2 cents

 

[Turgon]

Conservation and reproduction are essential instincts, a basic programming.
We may choose not to reproduce ourselves for very good reasons. Or choose to go with the flow of life the way it's supposed to be, depending on our natures

Yeah, but we are STS by default. So going with the flow is following the STS hierarchy and creating more food for the Matrix. And it's not like I am looking at this from a cold, distant perspective either. This is a very emotional topic for me, one that I've struggled with.

It's true that "Psychopathology, environmental and food toxins, cultural and educational programming, planetary changes. All these things are reaching critical mass at this point in history". But, has there ever been a "good" time to have children ?

I was offered the future of eventual marriage and children last year - two things I wanted very badly, and eventually gave up both because it was the right decision for me to make. As much as fatherhood and a loving relationship were two things I've wanted, a deep need - I had to contend and struggle to see what world I would be bringing a child into knowing what I know, and is that what a responsible caring father would do? It was one of the most difficult decisions to realize no. And it's not to say in some future time things may change on the planet, but as they are right now - if you are not totally ignorant to the state of the world - I see it as a selfish act because you are solely doing it to fill your need, your gaps, it's not for the child.

Will it add anything to anyone when somebody is alone, sad and feeling worthless, because this person is missing its aim, which in this case is taking care of its own kids ?

Is someone who feel's sad, lonely and worthless really in the right emotional state to be able to take care and raise a child with all that comes with it? Will they be able to somehow gain a sense of emotional stability and well-being in the face of a baby, probably. Babies are super cute and totally dependent on their parents. But what happens when the child starts growing up and becoming autonomous and independent. They start to develop their own interests outside of what their parent's can dictate and control.

No one can answer for another one !

That's true, we can't really know what's in another person and if a shift might occur in the person through being a parent! Although from all the research brought together on the topic Narcissism and how childhood trauma's and programs form, we can get a good indicator of what can likely happen.

Here's an interesting quote from 'Daring Greatly' by Brene Brown on parenting:

From the very beginning of my research on shame, I've always collected data on parenting and paid close attention to how research participants talked about being parented and about parenting. The reason is simple: Our stories of worthiness - of being enough - begin in our first families. The narrative certainly doesn't end there, but what we learn about ourselves and how we learn to engage with the world as children sets a course that either will require us to spend a significant part of our life fighting to reclaim our self-worth or will give us hope, courage and resilience for our journey.

There's no question that our behaviour, thinking, and emotions are hardwired within us and influenced by out environment. I wouldn't hazard a guess on the percentages, and I'm convinced that we'll never have a precise nature/nurture breakdown. I have no doubt, however, that when it comes to our sense of love, belonging, and worthiness, we are most radically shaped by our families of origin - what we hear, what we are told, and perhaps most importantly, how we observe our parents engaging with the world.

As parents, we may have less control than we think over temperament and personality, and less control than we want over the scarcity culture. But we do have powerful parenting opportunities in other areas: how we help our children understand, leverage, and appreciate their hardwiring, and how we teach them resilience in the face of relentless "never enough" cultural messages. In terms of teaching our children to dare greatly in the "never enough" culture, the question isn't so much "Are you parenting the right way?" as it is: "Are you the adult that you want your child to grow up to be?"

 

[Esote]

Turgon you are making very good points.

If you are able to take responsibility by not having children because of what you know about you and the present state of the world, that's really great, I mean it.

Now, most people are not able to reach such a point of view. The flow of life doesn't care about it either, somehow.

Yesterday I met a few toads in the snow, because the ice is melting, the sun's warming, the days are getting longer. If they go the wrong way, which is pretty easy to do, they'll get frozen, eaten by a bird of prey... But nevertheless they go, and only some of them will reach their daisy pond.

A few decades ago I didn't want to have children for the very same reason as you, seeing it as a selfish act in an insane world. And because it appeared as a trap to me, which wouldn't allow to have the freedom needed for a change. Then I realized that I wasn't meant to live as some kind of a monk; and that children were an essential part of life.

OK, this is like creating more food for the Matrix. That's the way of life actually. Everything is food for something else, and life goes on.

Nature is acting through us, but we generally identify to our false egos, thinking they are the ones who are acting. Refusing or indulging are part of the game, thanks to our free will and consciousness, even if limited, conditioned etc.
It all depends on our level of awareness eventually. Being of service to others may happen through having or not having children, following who we are in harmony with what life is waiting from us. Still nowadays, even if it seems much wiser not to give birth to anybody.

What about the outcome ? Being frozen, eaten by a predator ? Some new genius may be ? Who knows ?..

The root of suffering comes from desire and ignorance. There is so much to learn, one way or another

fwiw