Introduction

[MoskoeOne]

-Yes, I didn't distinguish between emotional actions, and emotions being present during action.

-And I didn't distinguish between heightened emotion, and the heightened emotion being the 'cause' of a response.

-one can use the term heightened emotion, as a figurative description. -- The intellectual centre always operates with/or besides emotion. That emotion is sometimes non-descript or subtle, but is always somehow involved, - for instance physical pain is a form of emotion even if it is not accompanied by thoughts or attitudes toward the pain. visual perception relies on emotion to code light information,.. extremely subtle emotion.

-emotion influences the intellect, and vice-versa, -- no information or interpretation about the ammount(being its figurative description) of either tells us of the validity(of whatever form the validity takes) of a set of words.

 

[Happyville]

I appreciate that the members of this forum are fully aware of our 'programs' and 'biases'. I also appreciate that many reading this will think 'who is this fool who thinks he has found the answers', but I have consciously made the decision to write this. I knew how it could be interpreted, and I knew that it was highly probable that I would write it in a way which would be misinterpreted. However, I also thought that my story of the last week may be of some use, to some one, in some way. I only wish I could have explained it much better; alas, language as we know is becoming increasingly primitive!

Domwats23... Yes I have had similar experiences, however I would certainly not hold that against you nor would I minimize your experience.

You say " I wish I could have explained it better" - which is a very common response to someone who has allowed their creative spirit to truly "see" something they could previously not see before - your difficulty putting it to words is shared at least by me. No recording instrument that I have used is as fluid as the 4 dimensions of our minds! 4D exists by nature in our minds but in my experience as a creative person - recording or reproducing a 4d concept in a 2d or 3d medium can only be a shadow of what is possible in the mind, so don't worry about re-expressing it in the vivid colors for which you experienced it... This is surely not possible!

It was reported that the Tiano Indians, for example, could not "see" approaching European ships, as they approached for the first time their shores" It was only after the Europeans landed on the shores and demonstrated to the Tiano's what a "ship" was - could they then see "a ship" ( sort of like learning the meaning of a new word you have never heard before ) . A new "box" needed to be opened in their mind in order for them to see something that was very real. This new box must be completely open to something in which you have never experienced or even imagined before. Opening a box is a creative act, closing one or ignoring one is destructive.

Stifling creativity is also a destructive act, and as I read your post, you seemed very positive and excited, which to me is the fuel for creativity and necessary for discovery... Perhaps the moderators are worried you may stray off and get into trouble, however there is always risk and reward inherent in the creative endeavor.

Creativity, I think, is also an act and expression of yourself - as surely no one else can be creative for you... So the self importance bit... Well, I am not really understanding how that applies to creative drives.

You had mentioned that you thought you never had anything to share on the board before so this must have been something you felt strongly about! I for one thank you for sharing... My litmus test for sharing significant information with people is - if I feel nervous about sharing it, it is must be something dear to the soul... If one is not nervous about sharing something then perhaps it's been done before by someone else.

I would be open to reading the 10,000 words, however it seems to be taboo on the forum for some objective reason!

 

[MoskoeOne]

...I would also really like to read the 10,000 words Domwatts... If possible could you email it to me? maybe we could pass it across email adresses for the time being...

 

[truth seeker]

Hi MoskoeOne,

Sending and receiving personal information between members is discouraged. It's for your own benefit as well as others in order to avoid feeding dynamics.

edit: clarity

 

[kenlee]

We have realised the magnitude behind the statement, 'everything is nothing' and the statement 'god is gravity'. We have conceived of true infinity, and how it fits into the number 1, and must incorporate negative infinity in -1. All we seek to do now is somehow use our new understanding to help others who want to be helped.

This sounds to me that you and your friend may have had had an intense Epiphany of sorts where you both saw in an instantaneous flash of recognition the interconnectedness of the universe and I think the above statement sounds similar to what Jacobe Bohme said in describing one of his experiences when he saw in a flash of high inspiration and insight the separation of Being from Non Being during the very first stage of creation. He is quoted as saying:

I saw the Being of all Beings, the Ground and the Abyss; also, the birth of the Holy Trinity; the origin and first state of the WORLD and of all creatures. I saw in myself the three WORLDS - the Divine or angelic WORLD; the dark World, the original of NATURE; and the external WORLD, as a substance spoken forth out of the two spiritual WORLDS ... In my inward man I saw it well, as in a great deep; for I saw right through as into a chaos where everything lay wrapped, but I could not unfold it. Yet from time to time it opened itself within me like a growing plant. For twelve years I carried it about within me, before I could bring it forth in any external form; till afterwards it fell upon me, like a bursting shower that kills where it lands, as it will. Whatever I could bring into outwardness I wrote down. The WORK is NONE of MINE; I am but the Lord's instrument, with which He does what He wills.

So Boehme says that "I could not unfold it. Yet from time to time it opened itself within me like a growing plant. For twelve years I carried it about within me, before I could bring it forth in any external form"

So one possibility, based on the statement of yours above, is that you had an intuitive flash of the act of creation, an Epiphany of sorts, but I think the problem is that the ego can get satisfied with that "eureka moment" feeling and spend its time focused on the experience itself neglecting the hard work that's involved into bringing it into (as Boehme says) "external form." The false ego (false personality of Gurdjieff) will fight to the death to stay alive and it may even become psychic to do so just so you and your friend could be sidetracked and trapped into the experience itself and go no further. The (false) ego, a self image we have of of ourselves with all form but no essential content, will be very happy with the experience itself, and even emotionally defend it, but not at all so happy with the intense work and perspiration involved in bringing the experience down to earth into "eternal form." If, lets say, you make a working hypothesis that Avatar and Lord Of the Rings is inspired from the higher densities (as you mentioned in your post) then there is still the reality of all the hard work and perspiration involved in getting the envisioned story to the big screen (and all the headaches involved in doing so).

This from Wiki on Epiphany:

An epiphany (from the ancient Greek ἐπιφάνεια, epiphaneia, "manifestation, striking appearance") is the sudden realization or comprehension of the (larger) essence or meaning of something. The term is used in either a philosophical or literal sense to signify that the claimant has "found the last piece of the puzzle and now sees the whole picture," or has new information or experience, often insignificant by itself, that illuminates a deeper or numinous foundational frame of reference.

Epiphanies of sudden comprehension have also made possible leaps in technology and the sciences. Famous epiphanies include Archimedes' realization of how to estimate the volume of a given mass, which inspired him to shout "Eureka!" ("I have found it!"). The biographies of many mathematicians and scientists include an epiphanic episode early in the career, the ramifications of which were worked out in detail over the following years. For example, Albert Einstein was struck as a young child by being given a compass, and realizing that some unseen force in space was making it move.

So Einstein may have had that flash of inspiration but his ego did not focus and indulge on the emotional feeling itself otherwise he never would have brought this "unseen force" into external form with all the hard work involved developing the mathematics of his General Theory Of Relativity so that others could understand and review it.

 

[Happyville]

So Einstein may have had that flash of inspiration but his ego did not focus and indulge on the emotional feeling itself otherwise he never would have brought this "unseen force" into external form with all the hard work involved developing the mathematics of his General Theory Of Relativity so that others could understand and review it.

I agree totally - but his work was not stifled, censored or suppressed as Domatts23 has been encouraged to do. How can it be reviewed objectively if it has been:

a) discouraged on the forum itself

and

b) discouraged - member to member.

Sending and receiving personal information between members is discouraged. It's for your own benefit as well as others in order to avoid feeding dynamics.

 

[truth seeker]

So Einstein may have had that flash of inspiration but his ego did not focus and indulge on the emotional feeling itself otherwise he never would have brought this "unseen force" into external form with all the hard work involved developing the mathematics of his General Theory Of Relativity so that others could understand and review it.

I agree totally - but his work was not stifled, censored or suppressed as Domatts23 has been encouraged to do. How can it be reviewed objectively if it has been:

a) discouraged on the forum itself

and

b) discouraged - member to member.

No one is discouraging Domatts from starting his own blog. In fact he was encouraged to do so. Can you state why you feel the need to defend Domatts when he seems to be fine with the responses given to him? Perhaps this issue is personal to you for some reason?

 

[Happyville]

Perhaps this issue is personal to you for some reason?

Not overly personal - I just prefer airing on the side of inclusion, creativity and discovery.

Personally...

1. My grandmother perhaps "programed" me to consider all points of view, and in fact to consider the weaker point of view more closely than that of the stronger point of view perhaps as an objective way to attempt to come to a balanced conclusion.

2. I was inspired by a book by Manu, ( previously quoted ) on the value of amplification of weak signals which are often shrouded in noise as you say, but none the less - outright dismissal of a weak signal ( especially when pertinent info is suppressed not considered ) can be a missed opportunity for learning or discovery.

In my view, Domwatts23, initial post was energetic and positive and at some point after some discussion about it he seemed apologetic. Perhaps you are right... maybe he was inspired with the responses and I hope that is the case.

 

[truth seeker]

Perhaps this issue is personal to you for some reason?

Not overly personal - I just prefer airing on the side of inclusion, creativity and discovery.

No worries, Happyville. We are very inclusive, creative and enjoy the wonders of discovery. I would have thought that you were aware of that being a member here for almost 4 years now? :)

 

[Happyville]

... yes... everyone has a "brainfart" once in a while

 

[MoskoeOne]

Truth Seeker

Sending and receiving personal information between members is discouraged. It's for your own benefit as well as others in order to avoid feeding dynamics.

Can you explain what you mean by 'feeding dynamics'?

Can you explain what you mean by 'for your own benefit'?

If the 100,000 words is to be considered personal information, in what way is it so? (in the context of the importance of how it is personal)

I agree totally - but his work was not stifled, censored or suppressed as Domatts23 has been encouraged to do. How can it be reviewed objectively if it has been:

a) discouraged on the forum itself

and

b) discouraged - member to member.

This comment is not a defence of Domwatts. The subject is how content is treated.

 

[John G]

Sending and receiving personal information between members is discouraged. It's for your own benefit as well as others in order to avoid feeding dynamics.

Can you explain what you mean by 'feeding dynamics'?

Can you explain what you mean by 'for your own benefit'?

If the 100,000 words is to be considered personal information, in what way is it so? (in the context of the importance of how it is personal)

There can be (and have been here) situations where someone acts much differently (aka worse) in e-mail than on the forum. It's a general internet risk thing. Words discussed in email are a private aka personal thing and words on a blog would be public. That many words discussed too much here on this forum would run a huge risk of becoming noise.

 

[obyvatel]

Truth Seeker

Sending and receiving personal information between members is discouraged. It's for your own benefit as well as others in order to avoid feeding dynamics.

Can you explain what you mean by 'feeding dynamics'?

Can you explain what you mean by 'for your own benefit'?

This thread may help. For reference, this is the thread which has a list of important topics which would ideally be read by all new members - it includes the topic I linked above.

 

[MoskoeOne]

...The balance is always between individual predatory behaviour, and collective predatory behaviour... the point about emails though is right, specifically in terms of mutual access to communications for the sake of objectivity... blogs are very easy to set up and 100,000 words is alot.. I don't think 'noise' can be defined by ammount of words that seems a little token, but practically scrolling through that many words is at least inconvient in terms of efficient navigation... It would be good to see a link to a blog with the writing..

 

[obyvatel]

Domwats23... Yes I have had similar experiences, however I would certainly not hold that against you nor would I minimize your experience.

Can you point out exactly where you thought Domwats23's experience was held against him and minimized?

I agree totally - but his work was not stifled, censored or suppressed as Domatts23 has been encouraged to do. How can it be reviewed objectively if it has been:

a) discouraged on the forum itself

and

b) discouraged - member to member.

What work has been stifled, censored or suppressed? Are you talking about the 10,000 words that was mentioned here? Since you have been here for 4 years, you should be aware that here when someone has information that they want to share, they do it. Dropping hints about great insights and mentioning "10000 words" (which by the way seems to have become quite a catch phrase) are not the way one typically goes about sharing information here. Also without having really known anything about what these alleged "10000 words" may or may not contain, you have labeled it as a creative enterprise which is allegedly being squashed here?

Domwatts23 could perhaps use this opportunity to write a concise account of what he and his friend have discussed in a journal, use the search function to check whether these topics have already been discussed here in the forum and then determine whether it is new information for the forum and if it is, post it here? That by the way is the standard procedure that is recommended to be followed for every forum member here.