Iodine and Potassium Iodide

Rhiannon said:
_B_ said:
I have been taking "trophic" iodine until my Lugols arrives. It has 640mcg in a drop. I started with 1 drop and increased up to 20 drops today (~13mg). I had also been taking vit C, selenium and Vit B complex (w/ low doses of B2 and B3). Today I bought vit B2(100mg) and B3 (200mg) and took them once I had supper. About 5 mins later my whole body turned red and began having a burning sensation.
I read this could be due to high doses of B2?

Anyone have any ideas why I might be having this reaction? Could it be the iodine?

That would be the B3 niacin flush. It has been recommended somewhere in this thread to take the Niacinamide no flush instead. I know that flush can be a little uncomfortable. Been there. :shock:

Thank you for your reply Rhiannon. Just reading about this now. I think that is definitely what it is since I have not had any issues until 5mins after I took the B3.
 
[quote author= Davey]
Thank you. Its a tincture so there is alcohol as well but what you say makes sense to me. Not something i can do right now as i havent read the whole thread and i dont have any supplements or real salt atm. [/quote]

Davey, I would NOT use a tincture of iodine for this protocol. If it is made with ethanol, it technically could be consumed - along with all the negative effects alcohol entails. If it is methanol (wood alcohol), that is of course deadly! But it may be a denatured alcohol, which is a combination of ethanol and methanol. That too, is toxic if you drink it.

And since it is being sold for topical use as an antiseptic, the purity requirements for the alcohol may not be as rigorous as that intended for ingestion. It's purity would be questionable.

Good idea to read the thread first and be properly prepared. ;)
 
Lilou said:
[quote author= Davey]
Thank you. Its a tincture so there is alcohol as well but what you say makes sense to me. Not something i can do right now as i havent read the whole thread and i dont have any supplements or real salt atm.

Davey, I would NOT use a tincture of iodine for this protocol. If it is made with ethanol, it technically could be consumed - along with all the negative effects alcohol entails. If it is methanol (wood alcohol), that is of course deadly! But it may be a denatured alcohol, which is a combination of ethanol and methanol. That too, is toxic if you drink it.

And since it is being sold for topical use as an antiseptic, the purity requirements for the alcohol may not be as rigorous as that intended for ingestion. It's purity would be questionable.

Good idea to read the thread first and be properly prepared. ;)
[/quote]

I agree. It would be prudent to contact the manufacturer to find out exactly what's in this product before even thinking about ingesting it - both medicinal and non-medicinal ingredients. I'd say err on the side of caution with this one.
 
SunEterna said:
goyacobol said:
I have been anxious to receive my 5% Crows Lugols and 200mcg selenium from Amazon and it just came today. I had already started the vitamin B2, B3 and 1 tsp of salt for about a week.

I will continue to follow the thread and do more reading. I just started with 4 drops (25mg) to see if I notice any difference.

Thanks for all the inputs.

Vitamin B3? No flush? :D

Supposed to be taking niacinamide, not niacin form.

Niacinamide is well known to assist in the energy production of mtDNA. It usually comes in 500mg capsules which means that taking 1000 mg is a matter of two capsules.
 
I'm just a bit disheartened to see that quite a few people are just jumping in to start taking stuff without doing the research first and learning about the properties of what they are taking. The Niacin/Niacinamide mix-up is one aspect of it. But there is more.

As I mentioned/quoted somewhere, the taking of certain co-factors are necessary for SOME people, but not for others and one has to wade in cautiously and 1) know their own body and 2) know what the co-factors do and whether or not you, specifically, need to be taking them.

Perhaps it would be helpful to read this Chris Kresser article which somewhat emphasizes this point:
http://chriskresser.com/what-influences-methylation-an-interview-with-dr-ben-lynch/

Yes, he's talking about methylation and MTHFR genes and genetic mutations, but the principles are important. Especially the one about "there is no magic bullet" - it takes time and thought and a little experimentation to work things out.

As mentioned, possibly folks with few issues would just benefit from a little iodine supplementation, but other folks with more serious issues might want to look at things a bit more closely; they might need the co-factors, but not everyone will.

In this thread, mention was also made that SOME people might benefit from adding Tyrosine to the co-factors, but not everyone! That would be people who tend toward dopamine deficiency, while others, who tend toward seretonin deficiency should NOT be taking Tyrosine. People who have mtDNA/energy problems, may benefit from the B co-factors, but others don't need them and it might make them TOO hyped up. And mtDNA energy dysfunctions are not the same as just being tired and low on iodine!!! mtDNA dysfunctions are a condition that is hard to treat while just getting perked up from having some iodine to feed the thyroid and cells is another matter altogether.

I have specific conditions and what I take is not what everyone should take, though it is probably a pretty good model for those with serious mtDNA energy problems and arthritic/autoimmune type conditions. But each individual will be different and this is where careful experimenting, moving slowly, becomes very important.

Now, we have quoted Brownstein's book quite a bit, but it should be remembered that he is talking about cases of people who came to him for specific problems after years of trying everything under the sun to correct a debilitating condition. Keep that in mind. If you haven't been desperately searching for a cure of something or other for years, then what Brownstein does with his patients probably doesn't apply to you! Probably, most people, with generally normally functioning systems will do fine with a drop or two of iodine, or a potassium iodide tablet of the lower mg range daily just to make up for the lack of iodine in the diet and the overburden of toxicity in the environment. That will give the body what it needs to gear up and do stuff including detoxing in a normal way.

That is to say, yes, probably everybody could use a little bit of iodine supplementation, but not everybody needs an iodine protocol to correct some disease or condition or other.

So, please, if you are not ill in some way or suffering from some condition of body or mind that significantly interferes with your quality of life, just read the thread, test out modest supplementation if you think it will help you, and proceed cautiously. And, as always, be sure to consult your health care practitioner for guidance.
 
If you did get an iodine tincture for topical application which is of unspecified quality, you can always use it topically!
For instance, until I found an actual pharmacy who'd mix me pure lugol (i did eventually find one, a week ago), the best I had found was a cheap topical 2% lugol-like I2-KI mix with unspecified "vehicle" for the solution.

At an estimated 10-12% total transdermal absorbtion within 24 hours (and ~2.5mg iodine/iodide per drop) I thought it would actually be a perfect way to start the protocol slowly - with 5-10 drops well spread on the forearms it translated to a 1.2 - 3 mg dose per day.

Even after obtaining real lugol, I kept only applying the topical solution transdermally, until I also obtained selenium supplementation. To me, selenium seems the most important co-factor, maybe even more than the salt water - although not for detox purposes but simply for the thyroid not to freak out when it gets swamped by iodine without the proper supply of selenium for those enzymes that are needed to process t4 into t3.

Now that I've assembled a reasonable inventory of.cofactors, I've completed day 5 of 15mg iodine/dide per day. Initial impressions are a subtle improvement in energy and clarity (my focus was already good, so slightly hard to tell) but i can tell the added energy from a lack of fatigue at bedtime, although I make sure to not have the iodine past noon.

I also have had a weird deep zit type swelling appear on my forearm a day after experimenting with putting 5 drops 5% lugol on a single spot - the zit appeared about an inch away. It coyld also be a botfly sting, which is not that uncommon here in mexico. To be continued, i guess....
 
Laura said:
SunEterna said:
goyacobol said:
I have been anxious to receive my 5% Crows Lugols and 200mcg selenium from Amazon and it just came today. I had already started the vitamin B2, B3 and 1 tsp of salt for about a week.

I will continue to follow the thread and do more reading. I just started with 4 drops (25mg) to see if I notice any difference.

Thanks for all the inputs.

Vitamin B3? No flush? :D

Supposed to be taking niacinamide, not niacin form.

Niacinamide is well known to assist in the energy production of mtDNA. It usually comes in 500mg capsules which means that taking 1000 mg is a matter of two capsules.

I do not have the niacin form of B3. It is nacinamide 500 mg which doesn't give me the flush. I am only taking 1 capsule/day (500 mg). Should I be taking 1000 mg? I am hoping that the Lugols will help with a feeling of lethargy or lack of energy.

Thanks for the advice to go slow and do the research.
 
If ya'll will read the wikipedia articles about the various supplements it will give you an idea of what they do and what symptoms they produce either when you are low or when you have too much. You can also get an idea of when you need them.

For example, selected excerpts from the bit on niacinamide:

Nicotinamide, (ni-kə-tē-nə-mīd) also known as niacinamide[1][2] and nicotinic amide, is the amide of nicotinic acid (vitamin B3 / niacin).

Nicotinic acid, also known as niacin, is converted to nicotinamide in vivo, {so why take niacin which has to be converted?} and, though the two are identical in their vitamin functions, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological and toxic effects of niacin, which occur incidental to niacin's conversion. Thus nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing,[3] although nicotinamide may be toxic to the liver at doses exceeding 3 g/day for adults.

Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth is one known cause of nicotinamide deficiency.[7] {That's a big one for those suffering leaky gut!}

Nicotinamide has anti-inflammatory actions. These may be of benefit to patients with inflammatory skin conditions.[8] These conditions include acne vulgaris, and the compound can suppress antigen-induced, lymphocytic transformation and inhibit 3',5'-cyclic-AMP phosphodiesterase. Nicotinamide has demonstrated the ability to block the inflammatory actions of iodides known to precipitate or exacerbate inflammatory acne. {Those who have had skin eruptions due to iodine intake should pay attention here!}

Nicotinamide is also used topically as a 4% or 5% gel or cream - as effective as topical 1% clindamycin ...Unlike topical Erythromycin or Clindamycin it does not precipitate bacterial resistance in treating inflammatory acne.... clindamycin worked better in people with non-oily (normal, dry) skin types, while nicotinamide worked better in people with oily skin types. {So, if you are the oily type, you might want to think about this!}

Nicotinamide increases the biosynthesis of ceramides in human keratinocytes in vitro and enhances the epidermal permeability barrier in vivo. ... has been found to be effective in lowering the sebum excretion rate in study participants. Nictotinamide has been shown to prevent Propionibacterium acnes-induced activation of toll-like receptor (TLR)-2, which ultimately results in the down-regulation of pro-inflammatory IL-8 production. ... oral nicotinamide may be effective at preventing actinic keratoses ... {If you have acne like conditions, or hidradenitis, Nicotinamide might be helpful!}

Studies show that nicotinamide has anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) properties. It may work in a way similar to benzodiazepines. {This sounds interesting!}

It is an activator of sirtuins (but inhibits at higher doses) and has been reported to restore cognition in Alzheimer's disease... {Remember sirtuins? The thingies that everyone wants to activate for longevity and youthifying? Gedgaudas wrote about them in her book in relation to intermittant fasting...}

Nicotinamide reportedly increases the endurance {of mice, it says, but heck... I could use some endurance!}

Nicotinamide lacks the vasodilator, gastrointestinal, hepatic, and hypolipidemic actions of nicotinic acid. As such, nicotinamide has not been shown to produce the flushing, itching, and burning sensations of the skin as is commonly seen when large doses of nicotinic acid are administered orally. High-dose nicotinamide should still, however, be considered as a drug with toxic potential at adult doses in excess of 3 g/day ... however, it rarely causes side effects, and is considered generally safe as a food additive, and as a component in cosmetics and medication.

So, you see, nicotinamide appears to be quite superior to niacin and functions in many useful activities in the body.

Now, do the same thing with the other supplements: read up on them and find out the things they do in case you have a situation arising where you could use the properties of the supplement!!!
 
It has now been 15 days since I started taking some extra iodine/idodide in the form of Lugol's solution. I've been using the Hulda Clark version with sodium iodide, since ordering potassium iodide seems to be prohibited where I live. I still haven't found any reliable information about the difference - if there is one - between the efficiency of these two different forms.

I started cautiously with one drop/day, taking the salt and some cofactors. According to the bottle, one drop contains 2,7mg of iodine (iodine+sodium idodie; I'm not sure about the exact ratio). The first thing I noticed, the next day, was that the skin on my face seemed to "like" it: the skin looked healthier and vitalized. On the third day I got a slight headache and ache on the right side of my neck, my typical symptoms while detoxing. This resolved pretty quickly with the help of some zeolite I took.

The next couple of days went quite smoothly, and I felt a bit more energized and clearheaded. I slowly added the dosage, and on the 7th day I was taking 7-8 drops, which according to the bottle would be something like 20mg of iodine/iodide.

Then, on the 8th day I started having trouble. The previously reported gloominess and tiredness came on, and I felt like I couldn't accomplish anything. Just felt like I wanted to sleep all the time. So, I decided to take a break. It took me 3 whole days (during which I didn't take any iodine) to get back to feeling normal. I also experienced strong detox symptoms, so it seems to confirm the reports I've read that the detoxing might be even stronger during the off-iodine days.

Now I'm continuing slowly with 1-3 drops a day, monitoring any onset of negative symptoms. What I've learned from this, is that the severity of gloominess and tiredness can take you by surprise, and it can be quite devastating, so be careful not to overdose!

My main problems for long have been chronic fatigue and nerve problems (sciatic and thumb joint), and it remains to be seen if adding iodine will help with these. I sense a slight improvement, but it's too early to draw any conclusions yet.
 
BUT, lest you think that niacin is unnecessary, think again - you just don't need so much as to get the flush.

Niacin (also known as vitamin B3 or nicotinic acid) is an organic compound with the formula C 6H 5NO 2 and, depending on the definition used, one of the 20 to 80 essential human nutrients. Pharmaceutical and supplemental niacin are primarily used to treat hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol) and pellagra (niacin deficiency). ...

Niacin cannot be directly converted to nicotinamide, but both compounds are precursors of the coenzymes nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP) in vivo.[6] NAD converts to NADP by phosphorylation in the presence of the enzyme NAD+ kinase. NADP and NAD are coenzymes for many dehydrogenases, participating in many hydrogen transfer processes.[7] NAD is important in catabolism of fat, carbohydrate, protein, and alcohol, as well as cell signaling and DNA repair, and NADP mostly in anabolism reactions such as fatty acid and cholesterol synthesis.[7] High energy requirements (brain) or high turnover rate (gut, skin) organs are usually the most susceptible to their deficiency.[8] Although the two are identical in their vitamin activity, nicotinamide does not have the same pharmacological effects (lipid modifying effects) as niacin. Nicotinamide does not reduce cholesterol or cause flushing.[9] Niacin is involved in both DNA repair and the production of steroid hormones in the adrenal gland. ...

Tolerable upper intake levels (UL) for adult men and women is considered to be 35 mg/day by the Dietary Reference Intake system to avoid flushing. ...

Common psychiatric symptoms of niacin deficiency include irritability, poor concentration, anxiety, fatigue, restlessness, apathy, and depression.[14] Studies have indicated that, in patients with alcoholic pellagra, niacin deficiency may be an important factor influencing both the onset and severity of this condition. Patients with alcoholism typically experience increased intestinal permeability, leading to negative health outcomes. ...

Niacin is contraindicated with active liver disease, persistent elevated serum transaminases, active peptic ulcer disease, or arterial bleeding.

Pharmacological doses of niacin (1.5 – 6 g per day) lead to side effects that can include dermatological conditions such as skin flushing and itching, dry skin, and skin rashes including eczema exacerbation and acanthosis nigricans. ...

...doses above 2 g per day have been associated with liver damage, in particular, with slow-release formulations

Gastrointestinal complaints, such as dyspepsia (indigestion), nausea and liver toxicity fulminant hepatic failure, have also been reported.

Although high doses of niacin may elevate blood sugar, thereby worsening diabetes mellitus,[25] recent studies show the actual effect on blood sugar to be only 5–10%. Patients with diabetes who continued to take anti-diabetes drugs containing niacin did not experience major blood glucose changes. Thus overall, niacin continues to be recommended as a drug for preventing cardiovascular disease in patients with diabetes.

Hyperuricemia is another side effect of taking high-dose niacin, and may exacerbate gout.

Side effects of cardiac arrhythmias have also been reported.

Niacin in doses used to lower cholesterol levels has been associated with birth defects in laboratory animals, with possible consequences for infant development in pregnant women.

It reduces secondary outcomes associated with atherosclerosis, such as low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL), very low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (VLDL-C), and triglycerides (TG), but increases high density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL).

Other effects include anti-thrombotic and vascular inflammation, improving endothelial function, and plaque stability.

The liver can synthesize niacin from the essential amino acid tryptophan, requiring 60 mg of tryptophan to make one mg of niacin.[48] Riboflavin, vitamin B6 and iron are required in some of the reactions involved in the conversion of tryptophan to NAD.

“Slow release” varieties have higher hepatotoxic activity, hence some types of prescription niacin are not recommended due to potential harm.

One form of dietary supplement is inositol hexanicotinate (IHN), which is inositol that has been esterified with niacin on all six of inositol's alcohol groups. IHN is usually sold as "flush-free" or "no-flush" niacin in units of 250, 500, or 1000 mg/tablets or capsules. It is sold as an over-the-counter formulation, and often is marketed and labeled as niacin, thus misleading consumers into thinking they are getting the active form of the medication. While this form of niacin does not cause the flushing associated with the immediate-release products, the evidence that it has lipid-modifying functions is contradictory, at best.

So, you can see, niacin is a bit more problematical than niacinamide. However, it also seems clear that SOME niacin is helpful though I would suggest staying under the flushing level!
 
new and improved salt water recipe I came up with
1 cup of hot water
1/2 tea spoon of Celtic /Himalaya salt freshly ground (about 10 twists of salt grinder)
freshly ground black pepper
a pinch of turmeric
2 tea spoons of butter or ghee

stir to resolve salt

tastes like chicken soup!!! ;D
 
Laura said:
So, you can see, niacin is a bit more problematical than niacinamide. However, it also seems clear that SOME niacin is helpful though I would suggest staying under the flushing level!

If one wants to get both forms, it may be a good idea to take a b-complex tablet which contains niacin in a below-flush dose, in addition to taking Niacinamide 500-1000mg as a separate supplement. It will also be enough to cover any potential major B-vitamin deficiencies (other than B12 which is very poorly absorbed in the gut and is generally taken sublingually). Do find one that does not contain folic acid, and instead contains folate/MTHF, in case you have a MTHFR gene problem - there is a thread on this too. Jarrow B-right is a good option, with 25mg niacin, and they recently swapped the folic acid for the 5MTHF form.
 
Perhaps we should stick to factual data about Iodine on this thread but here is a bit of metaphysical "trivia" which should be mentioned:

Iodine = Jod ( pronounciation in large number of languages, written as Yod or Jod) = 10th letter of Hebrew alphabet (pronounced as Yud, Yod, Jod or Jodh)

As Yud is the smallest letter, much kabbalistic and mystical significance is attached to it. According to the Gospel of Matthew Jesus mentioned it during the Antithesis of the Law when he says: "One jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

In Jewsih mystical tradition, Yod represents mere dot, a divine point of energy. Yod is considered the starting point of presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the Spirit in everything.

Interesting, no?
 
Z said:
Perhaps we should stick to factual data about Iodine on this thread but here is a bit of metaphysical "trivia" which should be mentioned:

Iodine = Jod ( pronounciation in large number of languages, written as Yod or Jod) = 10th letter of Hebrew alphabet (pronounced as Yud, Yod, Jod or Jodh)

As Yud is the smallest letter, much kabbalistic and mystical significance is attached to it. According to the Gospel of Matthew Jesus mentioned it during the Antithesis of the Law when he says: "One jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

In Jewsih mystical tradition, Yod represents mere dot, a divine point of energy. Yod is considered the starting point of presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the Spirit in everything.

Interesting, no?
Indeed. Also, the purple color (iodes, in greek) is generally associated with the spiritual world, the divine, the magical.
 
To add to what Laura has said, you really do need to be critically thinking/thinking with a hammer when it comes to iodine, and any additional supplements on this protocol. Emotional thinking will get you in trouble. Decisions should be based on knowledge, and not based on 'what others are doing'.

Another reason to go slow and steady is it gives you time to observe feedback from your body, and make Small patient adjustments over days/weeks.
For example, if things are going well your need for some supplements may change over time.
E.g. the need for something like Tyrosine will diminish once your brains hormone systems start to work properly - so knowing what to look for (what the signs of to much Tyrosine are) should be part of daily observations.

If you find you are unsure about things, reread the entire thread. Make notes. Research signs and symptoms. And don't jump to conclusions based on the first thing you find.
Jumping to conclusions and just jumping into the protocol without knowing what you are doing seems to be an example of Thinking Fast vs Thinking Slow.
If you stay in Thinking Fast mode things will go wrong and can then easily 'give up' based on no logical reasoning at all.

I'll add that this is after jumping the gun in the past on many things, so I'd be a hypocrite not to mention having done all this myself.

So a few additional points of data I've gathered:
I was never very good at fasting, my body would show signs of sugar imbalance. Combined with other signs it seems my body couldn't fully switch to ketosis.
After a few weeks of Lugols and balancing detox so it wasn't getting in the way of my life, the heavy lifting I did last week shifted something. People mentioned in the Ketosis thread that heavy lifting helped switch the body into ketosis (including certain symptoms that accompanied that transition), and this is what happened this week.
Without checking and thinking the symptoms could be confused with something else.
For one I developed a new kind of headache and sluggish thinking. Combined with problems digesting fat I mentioned before (sluggish liver), my best guess was 'switched to ketosis, but not enough fuel'. To test this I tried out the butter tea with MCT oil (MCT oil bypasses the liver, and is fuel for the brain), and so far this has corrected the 'new headache' and sluggish thinking.
This has had the additional effect of reducing hunger if I skip a meal, and fasting no longer produces any signs of blood sugar imbalance.

I've also had a recurrence of symptoms I use to have as a teeanger since starting the Lugols. That is - poor circulation during sleep, and waking up with numb arms/hands.
I kept a very close eye on this and adjusted and tested as I went. Switching fully to ketosis was one factor that improved things.
The others where the type of magnesium I was taking - magnesium citrate and transdermal magnesium don't help much, magnesium malate and magnesium glycate are what was needed.
I also tried the arginine protocol mentioned elsewhere in other threads (for circulation problems/repair), and this has totally resolved these symptoms.

All of this has been done in small steps based on observation, gaining knowledge, testing one supplement (or removing one supplement) in isolation and observing feedback from my body.

One last point of data, especially when it comes to 'dark moods'. If you have ruled out detox (and hopefully are not pushing Lugols/detox so hard you are getting these - I'm using a baseline of 1 drop of Lugols per day and having reduced bromide symptoms over time), then it seems from observation to be an emotional detox.
I've noticed emotions and memories surfacing from my past quite regularly now. Processing these things through journaling/networking can be very useful here.

A rather relevant memory is that of Maths class, and always being told off for not showing how I worked out an answer to a problem.
So show the logic and reasoning steps you use to reach conclusions.
 
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