Is it too late to start a university degree? And is there any point?
- Thread starter Keyhole
- Start date
Leonarda
Jedi
Hi keyhole, I see you have already made your decision, but I would like to give you another perspective, in case you find it useful.
I am a lawyer and some time ago I decided to take the State exams to became a judge. You can't believe the amount of useless information that they make us learn BY HEART. All laws, all procedures with hundreds of rules, thousands of terms in different topics, all by heart,and you have to know them at the same time. If you make a tiny mistake you may be done, because there are 3000 applicants for 100 jobs.And all of them study from morning to night. No social life, very little vacations (just the neccesary so you don't end up throwing yourself through the window) The only way is to repeat each paragraph until your brain hurts. But If I want to get the job, this is what I have to do, wheter I like it or not.
I want to be one because I hope this way I may be more useful to the universe that I already am. Everyday I see the terrible results of a bad judicial decision. I want to be in a better position to help people. And in case I am unable to make it, I have already noticed some benefits, ex. when someone asks me a judicial problem I am able to solve it almost inmediately, the information comes to my mind very, very quickly.I have also noticed many inconsistencies in different laws I wasn't aware before, because I had never compared them. It is like having an enormous personal database that you can access anytime you need, even if I don't agree with most of them or I consider them to be inefficient.
If you want to be a psychologist, you will need a degree, and you will have to learn a lot of bullshit theories that have been proven to be absurd of bad for pacients, and you will have to make exams and pretend that you agree with them,but that's how the university is. And in general, that's what life is: sometimes you have to do something you don't like or agree with because that's the reality you live in (I am referring to this kind of things we can't change, not that we should do what the PTB tell us to do!).But once you finish it you will be able to apply your OWN techniques and help people, like martha Stout or Elan Golomb.
As I said, this is just another perspective, I understand this is YOUR life, and your decision. I have met tons of people without a degree that are way more useful to the universe than others that not only do have one, but are noticeable in their careers. I wish you good luck and send you a hug.
I am a lawyer and some time ago I decided to take the State exams to became a judge. You can't believe the amount of useless information that they make us learn BY HEART. All laws, all procedures with hundreds of rules, thousands of terms in different topics, all by heart,and you have to know them at the same time. If you make a tiny mistake you may be done, because there are 3000 applicants for 100 jobs.And all of them study from morning to night. No social life, very little vacations (just the neccesary so you don't end up throwing yourself through the window) The only way is to repeat each paragraph until your brain hurts. But If I want to get the job, this is what I have to do, wheter I like it or not.
I want to be one because I hope this way I may be more useful to the universe that I already am. Everyday I see the terrible results of a bad judicial decision. I want to be in a better position to help people. And in case I am unable to make it, I have already noticed some benefits, ex. when someone asks me a judicial problem I am able to solve it almost inmediately, the information comes to my mind very, very quickly.I have also noticed many inconsistencies in different laws I wasn't aware before, because I had never compared them. It is like having an enormous personal database that you can access anytime you need, even if I don't agree with most of them or I consider them to be inefficient.
If you want to be a psychologist, you will need a degree, and you will have to learn a lot of bullshit theories that have been proven to be absurd of bad for pacients, and you will have to make exams and pretend that you agree with them,but that's how the university is. And in general, that's what life is: sometimes you have to do something you don't like or agree with because that's the reality you live in (I am referring to this kind of things we can't change, not that we should do what the PTB tell us to do!).But once you finish it you will be able to apply your OWN techniques and help people, like martha Stout or Elan Golomb.
As I said, this is just another perspective, I understand this is YOUR life, and your decision. I have met tons of people without a degree that are way more useful to the universe than others that not only do have one, but are noticeable in their careers. I wish you good luck and send you a hug.
luke wilson
The Living Force
I've been contemplating about this over the last hr or so.
What Alada said rings true but I hope you know that path is harder than getting your degree and having career opportunities open up on top of knowledge levels similar to the authors of the recommended books. I think you said you know this already and are still keen to forge ahead and go up against the numbers the PTB have been busy stacking against those who choose the path you are about to embark on. :)
Remember, in any voyage or expedition into the unknown, preparation is very important. Expect attack from anywhere and everywhere. Hopefully those around you will also stick by you through thick and thin. Your parents also seem quite nice with the donation they were willing to make!
100% admiration and wishing you the best. The future is open. Some of us are to scared to follow into dark pathways...
hopefully my previous comments didn't offend. :)
What Alada said rings true but I hope you know that path is harder than getting your degree and having career opportunities open up on top of knowledge levels similar to the authors of the recommended books. I think you said you know this already and are still keen to forge ahead and go up against the numbers the PTB have been busy stacking against those who choose the path you are about to embark on. :)
Remember, in any voyage or expedition into the unknown, preparation is very important. Expect attack from anywhere and everywhere. Hopefully those around you will also stick by you through thick and thin. Your parents also seem quite nice with the donation they were willing to make!
100% admiration and wishing you the best. The future is open. Some of us are to scared to follow into dark pathways...
hopefully my previous comments didn't offend. :)
Just to add another perspective. I went to University for a 4 year degree due to pressure from my parents and not having any viable alternative at the time. When I finished high school I was basically lost in the wilderness, with no clear path. This didn't change after graduating University. I basically had a nervous breakdown after graduation because I had absolutely no idea what my next step should be and found that University had not prepared me to any extent for the real world.
I ended up stumbling around from entry-level position to entry-level position with various companies, never utilizing anything I learned in University. Sure, that degree may have opened doors to get these jobs, but most of them were basically jobs a monkey could do.
It wasn't until I actually got interested in something, cooking, that my career path started to actually take some shape. I left the job world and went to cooking school, worked in the restaurant industry for a couple of years and then refocused and went to Holistic Nutrition school.
I don't regret having done the degree, but I don't see it as some kind of magic pass to a great career. That may have been the case 30 years ago or more, but that piece of paper really means very little these days. The market is saturated with clueless people walking around with degrees, especially in humanities/social sciences. A degree may get you into an entry-level position, but are you looking to start in data-entry and working your way up over the course of many years?
I think what is really needed is having an AIM and working towards it. If that aim requires a degree, then go for the degree. If it doesn't, then follow the path that will get you where you want to go and don't worry about the piece of paper.
My 2 cents.
I ended up stumbling around from entry-level position to entry-level position with various companies, never utilizing anything I learned in University. Sure, that degree may have opened doors to get these jobs, but most of them were basically jobs a monkey could do.
It wasn't until I actually got interested in something, cooking, that my career path started to actually take some shape. I left the job world and went to cooking school, worked in the restaurant industry for a couple of years and then refocused and went to Holistic Nutrition school.
I don't regret having done the degree, but I don't see it as some kind of magic pass to a great career. That may have been the case 30 years ago or more, but that piece of paper really means very little these days. The market is saturated with clueless people walking around with degrees, especially in humanities/social sciences. A degree may get you into an entry-level position, but are you looking to start in data-entry and working your way up over the course of many years?
I think what is really needed is having an AIM and working towards it. If that aim requires a degree, then go for the degree. If it doesn't, then follow the path that will get you where you want to go and don't worry about the piece of paper.
My 2 cents.
Alada
The Living Force
One way to look at the question is to consider the long term view and keep that in mind. As we are seeing with the way Laura’s work, the group, projects etc here unfold, it takes time for things to unfold. The Cs were saying to Laura back in 1994/5, to paraphrase: ‘network and all will be well, things (including financial matters) will improve right away’. Well, ‘right away’ from the Cs perspective seems to translate to 10/15 years here in 3d land.
So take the measure of 10 years as a reasonable frame within which to create change. If you go down the Uni route, 4 years minimum of study, then several years paying off the debt to finally get to a point 10/15 years later where you reach a reasonable position and are clear of the debt. If you take non-uni route over a similar time frame, sure you might start off in very humble ways indeed, but apply the same amount of effort (or more) into doing something you enjoy, and the result can be no different. You reach a stable ‘comfortable’ place.
It’s easy to dismiss it with ‘oh but you’ll only be able to get a job as a [whatever]’, but this though doesn’t allow for an appropriate time frame – as long as you put the energy in. And that’s the thing I think, neither route goes anywhere if we don’t consistently put the effort into it.
Another thing we fail to see, or find it very hard if not impossible to pick up on while embedded within it is just how powerful the fear/security programs are around employment. “Trap number one!” as the Cs put it. There is enormous pressure to comply and fit into a system which hooks us into the ‘you gotta have a regular job or the world will implode’ conditioning. It’s a very effective illusion. You still have to work hard to become (and remain) independent, you can’t just say ‘oh it’s all an illusion’ and then bum around being lazy and living off others, but it’s remarkable what can happen once that fear is let go and you work hard for yourself.
So take the measure of 10 years as a reasonable frame within which to create change. If you go down the Uni route, 4 years minimum of study, then several years paying off the debt to finally get to a point 10/15 years later where you reach a reasonable position and are clear of the debt. If you take non-uni route over a similar time frame, sure you might start off in very humble ways indeed, but apply the same amount of effort (or more) into doing something you enjoy, and the result can be no different. You reach a stable ‘comfortable’ place.
It’s easy to dismiss it with ‘oh but you’ll only be able to get a job as a [whatever]’, but this though doesn’t allow for an appropriate time frame – as long as you put the energy in. And that’s the thing I think, neither route goes anywhere if we don’t consistently put the effort into it.
Another thing we fail to see, or find it very hard if not impossible to pick up on while embedded within it is just how powerful the fear/security programs are around employment. “Trap number one!” as the Cs put it. There is enormous pressure to comply and fit into a system which hooks us into the ‘you gotta have a regular job or the world will implode’ conditioning. It’s a very effective illusion. You still have to work hard to become (and remain) independent, you can’t just say ‘oh it’s all an illusion’ and then bum around being lazy and living off others, but it’s remarkable what can happen once that fear is let go and you work hard for yourself.
Nearly 35 years ago, went to a 6 month vocational scholol and received a certificate for computer programming and operations. Back then, Apple was a fruit to be eaten. I've attended oodles of workshops, seminars and conferences but I still do not have any pedigree parchment. No disrespect intended. Sarcasm towards our educational system, yes.
I did take college level accounting (all of them), some business, math (for fun), and some manufacturing processes coursework though, Mostly work related. I did not take those other reqirements like underwater basket weaving so although I have enough course hours under my belt for a few degrees, I do not have all those electives that provide what may be called a well rounded education.
I apologize if this is off topic but I must say that The Universe can provide open doors and the WORK is up to us. Methinks I am living proof that yes, there are Guardian Angels.
Edit: missing words, grammar. I should've taken English courses, yes?.
I did take college level accounting (all of them), some business, math (for fun), and some manufacturing processes coursework though, Mostly work related. I did not take those other reqirements like underwater basket weaving so although I have enough course hours under my belt for a few degrees, I do not have all those electives that provide what may be called a well rounded education.
I apologize if this is off topic but I must say that The Universe can provide open doors and the WORK is up to us. Methinks I am living proof that yes, there are Guardian Angels.
Edit: missing words, grammar. I should've taken English courses, yes?.
luke wilson
The Living Force
Disclaimer Alert: Devils Advocate comment.
I say that effort and enthusiasm is not the primary driver of financial security in our world, regardless of whatever stories of success you hear out there.
I say it is primarily about positioning, coupled with effort and enthusiasm.
To make my case:
There are hundreds of millions of Americans chasing the American dream with zeal. They work extremely hard. Some have multiple jobs. You get the picture. Most regardless of how much effort or enthusiasm they apply, they wont reach financial security. Why? BECAUSE OF POSITIONING. They are in the wrong position.
There are billions of people in developing countries, working day and night to escape the poverty trap. Regardless, the effort has proven to be futile for the majority. Why? Positioning!
I hear you say there are a handful who have made it.. Found something they loved, worked super hard, got the deserved security. You hear these stories.. They'll motivate you... For these, I will tell you to google the infinite monkey theorem. People are being played into thinking it isn't chance. Don't be fooled. Do not take your eye off your position... Effort alone is not enough.
You move out of uni, you are changing your position. Are you placing yourself on better ground or worse?
Look at the landscape as a huge tactical map. Don't make moves out of sheer whim. Don't know if you've noticed, but the world is a jungle and like a jungle, their are dangerous things lurking in dark places. You'll lose. Or maybe you'll be the 1 monkey that will strike it lucky. If you are a gambling person, roll the dice, hope for the best. :)
You may already be in a position that affords you luxuries keyhole in which case it doesn't really matter what you do. Some of us aren't in such luxurious positions. We have to play a tight and clever game to achieve security.
I say that effort and enthusiasm is not the primary driver of financial security in our world, regardless of whatever stories of success you hear out there.
I say it is primarily about positioning, coupled with effort and enthusiasm.
To make my case:
There are hundreds of millions of Americans chasing the American dream with zeal. They work extremely hard. Some have multiple jobs. You get the picture. Most regardless of how much effort or enthusiasm they apply, they wont reach financial security. Why? BECAUSE OF POSITIONING. They are in the wrong position.
There are billions of people in developing countries, working day and night to escape the poverty trap. Regardless, the effort has proven to be futile for the majority. Why? Positioning!
I hear you say there are a handful who have made it.. Found something they loved, worked super hard, got the deserved security. You hear these stories.. They'll motivate you... For these, I will tell you to google the infinite monkey theorem. People are being played into thinking it isn't chance. Don't be fooled. Do not take your eye off your position... Effort alone is not enough.
You move out of uni, you are changing your position. Are you placing yourself on better ground or worse?
Look at the landscape as a huge tactical map. Don't make moves out of sheer whim. Don't know if you've noticed, but the world is a jungle and like a jungle, their are dangerous things lurking in dark places. You'll lose. Or maybe you'll be the 1 monkey that will strike it lucky. If you are a gambling person, roll the dice, hope for the best. :)
You may already be in a position that affords you luxuries keyhole in which case it doesn't really matter what you do. Some of us aren't in such luxurious positions. We have to play a tight and clever game to achieve security.
obyvatel
The Living Force
I think if someone is convinced about where their interests as well as strengths are, then by all means follow them - whether through a uni degree or through other avenues.
Most people I know, including myself at school leaving age, have little clue about what their strengths are, while interests are like fleeting clouds. If some teacher in school made a subject interesting, or if an adult motivated us directly or indirectly towards a subject or trade, or we read something that we liked - we think this is what interests us. Sometimes it turns out to be right, sometimes not.
So one can dabble in a few things to see what seems to fit - and then consider specialized education if that opens doors in the field of interest. Or one can keep on dabbling in different areas developing skills without specializing. The present structure of society is not that friendly towards such a person. Society pays more for specialization.
This brings us to another view towards approaching this whole issue. Learning a trade or doing a job can be more aligned to what is in demand from the society of a given time and place rather than what I "like". If I am able to find the means to become trained in a discipline that meets the demand of the society in a way that it not only pays the bills but also hopefully leaves me with some time and space to do what I like, then it is an optimal solution. I do not have to "identify" with my job or the time I spend in the uni expecting "enlightenment". It is a means to an end. This is a pragmatic rather than idealistic approach.
On that note, I have heard from others and observed myself that the same job that only required demonstration of skill and high school certificate 15-20 years ago started requiring an undergrad degree about 10 years back but now is almost impossible to get into without a masters degree. Developing countries have had this challenge for some time - and social pressures seem to be pushing countries like the US more and more in a similar direction. Something to keep in mind.
In Keyhole's situation, he wanted to study psychology/neuroscience. To my knowledge, one cannot really make a living out of an interest in such subjects without credentials/degrees. He can of course read as much as he can about them and apply the knowledge gained in his life - no need for a uni degree to do that. He still has to find a trade that would help him earn money.
So Keyhole, when you write
[quote author=Keyhole]
The idea of going out in the big bad world having to work a job that I probably don't enjoy and fend for myself is actually what I have been fighting with.
[/quote]
you have accepted the possibility that you will work at a job that you won't like. So, is the decision about not going to the uni primarily based on
[quote author=Keyhole]
Looking at the state of the worlds economy, I see no good reason to just walk into £50'000 worth of debt. No amount of mainstream education or pieces of paper saying "degree" are worth that.
[/quote]
Then when you say
[quote author=Keyhole]
Plan B : Go full time at work. Buy a car. Prepare for hard times to come. Learn practical skills that can be put to use outside of an institutionalised setting and can benefit myself and others in times of upheaval.
[/quote]
do you have anything specific in mind regarding practical skill acquisition?
Most people I know, including myself at school leaving age, have little clue about what their strengths are, while interests are like fleeting clouds. If some teacher in school made a subject interesting, or if an adult motivated us directly or indirectly towards a subject or trade, or we read something that we liked - we think this is what interests us. Sometimes it turns out to be right, sometimes not.
So one can dabble in a few things to see what seems to fit - and then consider specialized education if that opens doors in the field of interest. Or one can keep on dabbling in different areas developing skills without specializing. The present structure of society is not that friendly towards such a person. Society pays more for specialization.
This brings us to another view towards approaching this whole issue. Learning a trade or doing a job can be more aligned to what is in demand from the society of a given time and place rather than what I "like". If I am able to find the means to become trained in a discipline that meets the demand of the society in a way that it not only pays the bills but also hopefully leaves me with some time and space to do what I like, then it is an optimal solution. I do not have to "identify" with my job or the time I spend in the uni expecting "enlightenment". It is a means to an end. This is a pragmatic rather than idealistic approach.
On that note, I have heard from others and observed myself that the same job that only required demonstration of skill and high school certificate 15-20 years ago started requiring an undergrad degree about 10 years back but now is almost impossible to get into without a masters degree. Developing countries have had this challenge for some time - and social pressures seem to be pushing countries like the US more and more in a similar direction. Something to keep in mind.
In Keyhole's situation, he wanted to study psychology/neuroscience. To my knowledge, one cannot really make a living out of an interest in such subjects without credentials/degrees. He can of course read as much as he can about them and apply the knowledge gained in his life - no need for a uni degree to do that. He still has to find a trade that would help him earn money.
So Keyhole, when you write
[quote author=Keyhole]
The idea of going out in the big bad world having to work a job that I probably don't enjoy and fend for myself is actually what I have been fighting with.
[/quote]
you have accepted the possibility that you will work at a job that you won't like. So, is the decision about not going to the uni primarily based on
[quote author=Keyhole]
Looking at the state of the worlds economy, I see no good reason to just walk into £50'000 worth of debt. No amount of mainstream education or pieces of paper saying "degree" are worth that.
[/quote]
Then when you say
[quote author=Keyhole]
Plan B : Go full time at work. Buy a car. Prepare for hard times to come. Learn practical skills that can be put to use outside of an institutionalised setting and can benefit myself and others in times of upheaval.
[/quote]
do you have anything specific in mind regarding practical skill acquisition?
StrangeCaptain
Jedi Council Member
obyvatel said:
Yes. Especially with university education in some countries no longer paying for opportunity cost... That is, the next best opportunity that you miss by being in school is actually more profitable than schooling and the career track afterwards...
BUT!!! Finding a good trades(wo)man to learn from is nearly as complicated as the university path depending on circumstances both personal and cultural of course. Then, if we talk about teaching yourself a trade, well that is a likely wonderful path, but you still have to eat while you are learning.
In one of your previous posts, Keyhole, you stated that you are good with your hands. Have you considered apprenticing as a carpenter, cabinet maker, electrician, plumber, welder, electronics technician, etc?
I have a friend who, after working as a construction laborer for most of his life, at age 52 decided to turn his hobby-making and repairing stringed instruments-into a full-time job. He only wishes he had done it thirty years sooner.
I guess I'm saying that there are a lot of options available to you out there, so don't limit yourself to what you think you can or can't do.
While uni is an option, it certainly isn't the only one. You probably just need to do some footwork, and research the possibilities.
In any case, good luck and I hope this helped. :)
I have a friend who, after working as a construction laborer for most of his life, at age 52 decided to turn his hobby-making and repairing stringed instruments-into a full-time job. He only wishes he had done it thirty years sooner.
I guess I'm saying that there are a lot of options available to you out there, so don't limit yourself to what you think you can or can't do.
While uni is an option, it certainly isn't the only one. You probably just need to do some footwork, and research the possibilities.
In any case, good luck and I hope this helped. :)
Hey luc, I can understand why you may have thought that this was the case and you weren't aware of my situation or background, so I appreciate you highlighting that possibility.luc said:
I also appreciate everyone's contribution to this thread. It's helpful to read everyone's take on this because it's helping me to see things more objectively.
luke wilson said:
I am actually not in a very luxurious position fwiw. It's presently quite comfortable because I actually receive benefits to pay for the rent because I am a student, on low income and had savings from working last year. When the savings run out - things aren't gonna be so comfy! And my parents aren't wealthy if that's what your thinking. They used to be relatively comfortable, but when my dad gambled away £200'000 on online poker he had a break-down, was admitted into a mental institute/hospital and they had to sell the house and start from rock-bottom. They offered to give me that money because they appreciate that living as a student can be financially tough. I also think it's because my dad feels so guilty for what he put us all through.
That's a good question and Redrock12 beat me to itobyvatel said:
. I have been considering carpentry and some type of woodwork, possible even wood carving as well. But I don't want to place any limits on this... I don't see why I could not gain a wide range of other skills like natural building, bricklaying, electrics, plastering... The list is endless. Also don't ascribe to the idea that one must study at university to earn a sufficient wage. Any tradesman can attest to this. These skills are useful in most situations, and these are skills that are needed in communities. If I ever did become part of a community, or when SHTF... this stuff would be indispensable if we were having to rebuild civilization practically speaking. I have two friends who are my age, spent two years learning through vocational courses. One is now a plumber, the other is a plasterer, and they are both carpenters. These guys are now self-employed and get plenty of work, enjoy what they do and are earning a hefty wage! I look at them both with such admiration.
I always regarded myself as Man number 3, an "intellectual", therefore made the assumption that academia was the only route that I could take where I would be able to effectively channel my energies into a job. However, I like to be active. If I'm not active then creative tension builds up. You may say "do some exercise" - and I do exercise, but it just doesn't fill the gap. When something is broken, I enjoy the challenge of trying to fix it and can happily spend hours trying to do so. It's a great way for me to deal with the build up of creative energy.
luke wilson
The Living Force
Thumps up keyhole, it looks like you really do have a passion for something much more hands on and you have your 2 friends who are acting as shining beacons as to what is possible! 
I have to play Devil's advocate for just a little longer if you don't mind...
Why did you want to do the degree in psychology and neuroscience to begin with if you don't mind me asking? BTW, it's totally fine to have wanted to do something, then change your mind! Also, years from now, you can always take on the degree. I hear stories of people taking degree after degree through the open university whilst maintaining a full time job, for fun no less!!
Btw, my mum teaches vocational courses and during my gap year before uni I worked at her place for awhile and got to experience that whole world, the kids studying crafts, the adults teaching them, the world that awaited them etc. Imagine it or not, I also worked 6 months in a glass warehouse during that same gap year, cutting and moulding glass for sale. Didn't need any vocational teaching for that... was on the job learning... The guy who owned the warehouse had a passion for glass, managed to make a small business out of it!
There are people I know/knew, who make a living from their hands, who have very nice lives, beautiful homes in the country, beautiful families etc.
However, whilst I was working with my mum, I won't lie, there is obviously the dark side to this whole vocational thing... most kids who can't hack it anywhere else get damped on these courses as a last resort, have to stay on them to continue receiving benefits, they rebel, they act out etc etc. Hopefully you can avoid this dark side.
Lastly, I'm really sorry to hear what your dad did. None of our dads are perfect. :(
I have to play Devil's advocate for just a little longer if you don't mind...
Why did you want to do the degree in psychology and neuroscience to begin with if you don't mind me asking? BTW, it's totally fine to have wanted to do something, then change your mind! Also, years from now, you can always take on the degree. I hear stories of people taking degree after degree through the open university whilst maintaining a full time job, for fun no less!!
Btw, my mum teaches vocational courses and during my gap year before uni I worked at her place for awhile and got to experience that whole world, the kids studying crafts, the adults teaching them, the world that awaited them etc. Imagine it or not, I also worked 6 months in a glass warehouse during that same gap year, cutting and moulding glass for sale. Didn't need any vocational teaching for that... was on the job learning... The guy who owned the warehouse had a passion for glass, managed to make a small business out of it!
There are people I know/knew, who make a living from their hands, who have very nice lives, beautiful homes in the country, beautiful families etc.
However, whilst I was working with my mum, I won't lie, there is obviously the dark side to this whole vocational thing... most kids who can't hack it anywhere else get damped on these courses as a last resort, have to stay on them to continue receiving benefits, they rebel, they act out etc etc. Hopefully you can avoid this dark side.
Lastly, I'm really sorry to hear what your dad did. None of our dads are perfect. :(
Alada
The Living Force
I think it has to be remembered that this topic has a lot to do with both Aim and Third Force (sometimes described as the answer to the question ‘why’).
If we take the discussion out of this context then things take on a different light, everything is taken in the usual way. But we should factor in that things can be different if we have an Aim. If our focus in life becomes this Aim, then whatever helps this Aim will should be given primary consideration. There is good, there is bad, and the specific circumstances that define which is which.
For each person this would be different, for some choosing Uni is prudent, for others learning how to become self-employed would be sensible, for others doing what is before them whatever/wherever they are at that moment in time is the best course of action to support their Aim. So it’s silly to get into black and white thinking on the subject (the kind that our parents, peers and society has drilled into us).
My personal take is that it doesn’t matter what I do. If my line of work dries up tomorrow then becoming self-employed has taught me that you can turn your hand to anything and make money, all that is required is a mix of will / effort / common sense in order to do it. Wash cars, import wheel barrows, make gluten free goods, lay hedges, cut hair, it really doesn’t matter. If it comes to it, then any job will do as support while those balls get rolling.
Interestingly, for me while I was in employment, I found the thought of the above terrifying. You have no sense of actually how relatively easy (psychologically) it can be, fear programming us to remain where we are, the employment system never allowing you to see beyond that particular fence. Once the fence is taken down more options become available, or at least you begin to see what was not open to you before. Sure feels different too.
With all of that in mind, I think it would also be useful to factor in conscious acts as opposed to mechanical, and with that to add faith and hope, as in conscious faith, conscious hope as opposed to wishful thinking. If we are on a path, are sincerely applying ourselves in pursuit of a conscious Aim, then perhaps one needs a little faith coupled with that, that the Universe will place the right lessons before us to help become what we wish to be. Always remembering that a lot depends on our own efforts in that regard, it ain’t just gonna out of nowhere appear as if by magic.
If we take the discussion out of this context then things take on a different light, everything is taken in the usual way. But we should factor in that things can be different if we have an Aim. If our focus in life becomes this Aim, then whatever helps this Aim will should be given primary consideration. There is good, there is bad, and the specific circumstances that define which is which.
For each person this would be different, for some choosing Uni is prudent, for others learning how to become self-employed would be sensible, for others doing what is before them whatever/wherever they are at that moment in time is the best course of action to support their Aim. So it’s silly to get into black and white thinking on the subject (the kind that our parents, peers and society has drilled into us).
My personal take is that it doesn’t matter what I do. If my line of work dries up tomorrow then becoming self-employed has taught me that you can turn your hand to anything and make money, all that is required is a mix of will / effort / common sense in order to do it. Wash cars, import wheel barrows, make gluten free goods, lay hedges, cut hair, it really doesn’t matter. If it comes to it, then any job will do as support while those balls get rolling.
Interestingly, for me while I was in employment, I found the thought of the above terrifying. You have no sense of actually how relatively easy (psychologically) it can be, fear programming us to remain where we are, the employment system never allowing you to see beyond that particular fence. Once the fence is taken down more options become available, or at least you begin to see what was not open to you before. Sure feels different too.
With all of that in mind, I think it would also be useful to factor in conscious acts as opposed to mechanical, and with that to add faith and hope, as in conscious faith, conscious hope as opposed to wishful thinking. If we are on a path, are sincerely applying ourselves in pursuit of a conscious Aim, then perhaps one needs a little faith coupled with that, that the Universe will place the right lessons before us to help become what we wish to be. Always remembering that a lot depends on our own efforts in that regard, it ain’t just gonna out of nowhere appear as if by magic.
Thank you Alada for this insightful post.
I'm reminded of something I read on the forum a long time ago (couldn't find it), the gist of it was "why open that spiritual book shop in San Francisco that you dream about if you can make millions cleaning toilets?" This really made quite an impression on me at the time, and I still tell this phrase to friends who seek my advice on business ideas. So this of course is contradictory to the advice that one should love what one is doing, but this may be a case in point that black and white thinking just doesn't cut it. Indeed, the Third Force comes into play. And maybe also "lesson profiles", since different people have to overcome different obstacles for them to grow.
Yeah, 2 years ago, my wife and I quit our jobs, moved to the countryside and started our own small business. It was terrifying indeed, and the first thing we did, before we had a concrete plan, was to wade through the necessary bureaucracy, which I hate! But that's the thing - no more company to babysit you. You have to figure it out on your own. And that was a lesson I had to learn since I struggled/struggle with self-discipline, paperwork, order etc. So we made a simple aim: that we will be able to work from home and pay the bills, and continued our efforts without identifying too much with the project, and just kept moving on. For me, it really was the right thing to do what "it" doesn't like, keep on moving without second-guessing everything all the time - that's exactly what I needed to learn. And so far it worked out, and I'm convinced the universe had a hand in it and rewarded us for our efforts. But for other people, it could be totally different - maybe for someone like Keyhole, there's a totally different lesson to learn, for example to allow himself to do what he dreams about and to get into something he loves. So yes, I think it really depends on the situation, on the individual.
Alada said:
I'm reminded of something I read on the forum a long time ago (couldn't find it), the gist of it was "why open that spiritual book shop in San Francisco that you dream about if you can make millions cleaning toilets?" This really made quite an impression on me at the time, and I still tell this phrase to friends who seek my advice on business ideas. So this of course is contradictory to the advice that one should love what one is doing, but this may be a case in point that black and white thinking just doesn't cut it. Indeed, the Third Force comes into play. And maybe also "lesson profiles", since different people have to overcome different obstacles for them to grow.
Alada said:
Yeah, 2 years ago, my wife and I quit our jobs, moved to the countryside and started our own small business. It was terrifying indeed, and the first thing we did, before we had a concrete plan, was to wade through the necessary bureaucracy, which I hate! But that's the thing - no more company to babysit you. You have to figure it out on your own. And that was a lesson I had to learn since I struggled/struggle with self-discipline, paperwork, order etc. So we made a simple aim: that we will be able to work from home and pay the bills, and continued our efforts without identifying too much with the project, and just kept moving on. For me, it really was the right thing to do what "it" doesn't like, keep on moving without second-guessing everything all the time - that's exactly what I needed to learn. And so far it worked out, and I'm convinced the universe had a hand in it and rewarded us for our efforts. But for other people, it could be totally different - maybe for someone like Keyhole, there's a totally different lesson to learn, for example to allow himself to do what he dreams about and to get into something he loves. So yes, I think it really depends on the situation, on the individual.
When I was your age, Keyhole, 40 some odd years ago, I was pondering much the same. I really wasn't keen on Uni but it was cheap back then so I
enrolled in a work/study engineering program. In and out of enrollment twice due to accidents I dropped my studies. Right or wrong I believed the universe
was talking to me.
After numerous dead end jobs I settled into a rare manufacturing gig where I learned a lot, both about people and of course the machines and their quirks.
It was only recently that I retired from that job and subsequently learned of Laura and the 4th Way material. It appears our lives are flipped in that regard.
Advice for you seems to be best given as anecdotal; as has been said here everybody's situation is different. That, being said I would learn hands-on skill
sets if it was me.
enrolled in a work/study engineering program. In and out of enrollment twice due to accidents I dropped my studies. Right or wrong I believed the universe
was talking to me.
After numerous dead end jobs I settled into a rare manufacturing gig where I learned a lot, both about people and of course the machines and their quirks.
It was only recently that I retired from that job and subsequently learned of Laura and the 4th Way material. It appears our lives are flipped in that regard.
Advice for you seems to be best given as anecdotal; as has been said here everybody's situation is different. That, being said I would learn hands-on skill
sets if it was me.