Is Mr. Putin still "the same" Mr. Putin ?

[shrinocri]

So can someone tell me how raping and hanging teenage girls, killing husbands and domestic animals, abducting children and raping daughters, killing the elder and civilians that are evacuating etc. with planned mass executions possibly if they surrender is an act of goodness in objective reality? If it is goodness/lesser evil then what would be the greatest one? Because I can't possibly think of this slaughter as anything to be happy about at this point and even Ukrainians talking with Russians is like peaceful vs predator. Most of the Russians are happy seeing their pain. Now most of your experiment is in France and it was the only country Putin was talking with. Does it make you objective? Or do you say it's all fake and I'm just believing in something that unnecessarily bothers my self. Because I don't really care about the historical places that much, I just overall care if people live or unnecessarily die and develop humanely or just slaughter themselves. I'm a little bit lost at this point and even though your point of view is charming, all of it is cruel and I can't find any anchor point.

 

[tykes]

So can someone tell me how raping and hanging teenage girls, killing husbands and domestic animals, abducting children and raping daughters, killing the elder and civilians that are evacuating etc. with planned mass executions possibly if they surrender is an act of goodness in objective reality? If it is goodness/lesser evil then what would be the greatest one? Because I can't possibly think of this slaughter as anything to be happy about at this point and even Ukrainians talking with Russians is like peaceful vs predator. Most of the Russians are happy seeing their pain. Now most of your experiment is in France and it was the only country Putin was talking with. Does it make you objective? Or do you say it's all fake and I'm just believing in something that unnecessarily bothers my self. Because I don't really care about the historical places that much, I just overall care if people live or unnecessarily die and develop humanely or just slaughter themselves. I'm a little bit lost at this point and even though your point of view is charming, all of it is cruel and I can't find any anchor point.

Maybe it would be helpful first to make an effort to see through the propaganda, talking about the “raping, killing, abducting etc” as a matter of fact sounds as if what the western media reports were the absolute truth and we know that is most probably not the case because they’ve been caught lying again and again.

Sadly, the horrors of war (of any war) are real, and there is little we can do about it except perhaps trying to keep ourselves vigilant, and as objective as possible to find that anchor point.

 

[shrinocri]

Maybe it would be helpful first to make an effort to see through the propaganda, talking about the “raping, killing, abducting etc” as a matter of fact sounds as if what the western media reports were the absolute truth and we know that is most probably not the case because they’ve been caught lying again and again.

Sadly, the horrors of war (of any war) are real, and there is little we can do about it except perhaps trying to keep ourselves vigilant, and as objective as possible to find that anchor point.

I don't watch TV since the beginning of the war, and I was avoiding it since CoViD, because there are so many informational fusses, and it all became American infotainment, additionally boosting your stress. I'm not a fan of mass media since I was a teen. And I was studying journalism and psychology, so I think I can see beyond maybe not the event but the first instinct of perceiving it. It's simple. You can see some agenda/subjective view, even if it was easier to not. I check some things online, see posts of so-called journalists, politics etc. or some news (in my case related to German policy) but I mostly seek for the first-hand, front-line information, etc. I can't know 100% if these are real confessions to the psychologists, journalists, of them and the medics etc. But some of it is so cruel it just must be real, and I've seen plenty of things on the videos. I am not an advocate of conspiracy theories. I observe, listen, follow my common sense and intuition. And it says that Ukrainians take their revenge and fight for their country also making some mistakes. I think they could and should evacuate the eastern side of the country and supply or instruct to do so the people that chosen or had to stay. But I'm saying it after a month of war, and I think none of them was, excepting the Spanish Inquisition. I myself, convinced by your effort, didn't expect such cruelty and was thinking that the war is going to be with soldiers. While Russia was preparing to it exactly like German Nazis, talking beforehand how they would steal, kill and rape. I'm not making it up, I've heard it from Ukrainian women that were in Moscow after 2014. People were already talking e.g. in cafés how they would treat Ukrainians, Ukrainian women etc. I don't know how much you know simple people. I know them perfectly, and I see how the fanaticism works in the simplest religious or political moves. It is not unchangeable and oppressive. It reminds me 100% of what I was hearing and seeing documented about the German Nazis in the 1930s, only in real life. Listen to the Russian people, either the youth and the elder. 80% of them even knowing about the war would say it's amazing, fun and Poland should be next etc. It's either ignorance of the youth and blindness of the old. I've already seen it in different cases, but it wasn't relating to imperialism, nuclear war etc. Just for everyday life. And when I say that Russia prepared the crematories in case of the surrender is just my guess. You can say it was for their soldiers, as it should be if the conventional war would be humane in any way, but they are leaving their soldiers on the field. So I can suspect the crematories war made for disposal of the executed Ukrainians. And no, it isn't incidental. It isn't one Russian soldier killing a civil or raping a woman. It was since day one. Civilians expecting humanity were shooting on side by so called liberating them Russians, and it's not I've only heard of it, I've seen it documented and recorded. And it's not incidental cases, there's tens and hundreds. It's not only missiles or even mines (in a civil area) so you could suspect it was a mistake. They are doing it on purpose and unprovoked. It was their policy since the beginning. There are many reports of such treatment. It's usual, not incidental. They are executing civilians. There are reports of tortures. Sometimes it seems slightly made up, but most often it wouldn't be too exaggerated in the report and is properly documented. I don't say Ukraine or any country is perfect, but I'm not talking about it now. I asked and no one answered me. Furthermore, I say that in my opinion Russians are overall acting like we've heard they did in the past wars, they did in 2014 and that it was planned and intentional. And I don't relate to TV or anything like that, I relate to individual journalists and reports, even though sometimes annoyed with that 'there's going to be World War 3 if you don't participate' scaring or 'let's win at the expense of it' talking. I'm mostly thinking where it goes next and how many people can suffer and why are you happy despite of it. In another thread, there is a discussion about the programming complete. Seeing such posts as yours, I think that it unfortunately could be programming of you. Another thing is that writing this I already had technical issues like the Wi-Fi disconnecting, Random Access Memory malfunction etc. It's funny, but I experience it since 10 years or more, only when I'm writing what I really think. So in this case such disturbing could actually mean something, and it was already discussed there either. Thanks for giving me a chance to talk.

 

[Piotrek]

I don't watch TV since the beginning of the war, and I was avoiding it since CoViD, because there are so many informational fusses, and it all became American infotainment, additionally boosting your stress. I'm not a fan of mass media since I was a teen. And I was studying journalism and psychology, so I think I can see beyond maybe not the event but the first instinct of perceiving it. It's simple. You can see some agenda/subjective view, even if it was easier to not. I check some things online, see posts of so-called journalists, politics etc. or some news (in my case related to German policy) but I mostly seek for the first-hand, front-line information, etc. I can't know 100% if these are real confessions to the psychologists, journalists, of them and the medics etc. But some of it is so cruel it just must be real, and I've seen plenty of things on the videos. I am not an advocate of conspiracy theories. I observe, listen, follow my common sense and intuition. And it says that Ukrainians take their revenge and fight for their country also making some mistakes. I think they could and should evacuate the eastern side of the country and supply or instruct to do so the people that chosen or had to stay. But I'm saying it after a month of war, and I think none of them was, excepting the Spanish Inquisition. I myself, convinced by your effort, didn't expect such cruelty and was thinking that the war is going to be with soldiers. While Russia was preparing to it exactly like German Nazis, talking beforehand how they would steal, kill and rape. I'm not making it up, I've heard it from Ukrainian women that were in Moscow after 2014. People were already talking e.g. in cafés how they would treat Ukrainians, Ukrainian women etc. I don't know how much you know simple people. I know them perfectly, and I see how the fanaticism works in the simplest religious or political moves. It is not unchangeable and oppressive. It reminds me 100% of what I was hearing and seeing documented about the German Nazis in the 1930s, only in real life. Listen to the Russian people, either the youth and the elder. 80% of them even knowing about the war would say it's amazing, fun and Poland should be next etc. It's either ignorance of the youth and blindness of the old. I've already seen it in different cases, but it wasn't relating to imperialism, nuclear war etc. Just for everyday life. And when I say that Russia prepared the crematories in case of the surrender is just my guess. You can say it was for their soldiers, as it should be if the conventional war would be humane in any way, but they are leaving their soldiers on the field. So I can suspect the crematories war made for disposal of the executed Ukrainians. And no, it isn't incidental. It isn't one Russian soldier killing a civil or raping a woman. It was since day one. Civilians expecting humanity were shooting on side by so called liberating them Russians, and it's not I've only heard of it, I've seen it documented and recorded. And it's not incidental cases, there's tens and hundreds. It's not only missiles or even mines (in a civil area) so you could suspect it was a mistake. They are doing it on purpose and unprovoked. It was their policy since the beginning. There are many reports of such treatment. It's usual, not incidental. They are executing civilians. There are reports of tortures. Sometimes it seems slightly made up, but most often it wouldn't be too exaggerated in the report and is properly documented. I don't say Ukraine or any country is perfect, but I'm not talking about it now. I asked and no one answered me. Furthermore, I say that in my opinion Russians are overall acting like we've heard they did in the past wars, they did in 2014 and that it was planned and intentional. And I don't relate to TV or anything like that, I relate to individual journalists and reports, even though sometimes annoyed with that 'there's going to be World War 3 if you don't participate' scaring or 'let's win at the expense of it' talking. I'm mostly thinking where it goes next and how many people can suffer and why are you happy despite of it. In another thread, there is a discussion about the programming complete. Seeing such posts as yours, I think that it unfortunately could be programming of you. Another thing is that writing this I already had technical issues like the Wi-Fi disconnecting, Random Access Memory malfunction etc. It's funny, but I experience it since 10 years or more, only when I'm writing what I really think. So in this case such disturbing could actually mean something, and it was already discussed there either. Thanks for giving me a chance to talk.

I'm not sure if your initial post was motivated by what is being reported about Bucha, but I'd suggest you take a step back and read a bit more from different sources. The more info comes in, the more it looks like a false-flag to blame the Russians for war crimes.
To elaborate on atrocities during war: I do not condone violence on either side of the conflict - war is hell. I expect both sides will have soldiers that go "off the handle", but, given what I've read, Ukrainians appear more liable to act on their psychopathic tendencies than Russians.

 

[Bojan71]

This reminds me of Racak, before the bombing of Serbia, they gathered the Shiptars in a crowd and accused the Serbs, after that the bombing started. In every war, most civilians die on the premises. The destiny of every being is different and there are no coincidences in chaos, so that everyone gets what they deserve, whether to suffer sins and bad deeds through death? We have a lot of psychopaths and organic portals here, so why would you feel sorry for them? The whole world has become a great purgatory.

 

[shrinocri]

I'm not sure if your initial post was motivated by what is being reported about Bucha, but I'd suggest you take a step back and read a bit more from different sources. The more info comes in, the more it looks like a false-flag to blame the Russians for war crimes.
To elaborate on atrocities during war: I do not condone violence on either side of the conflict - war is hell. I expect both sides will have soldiers that go "off the handle", but, given what I've read, Ukrainians appear more liable to act on their psychopathic tendencies than Russians.

It wasn't motivated by the Bucha report, I was doing the research since day one.

This reminds me of Racak, before the bombing of Serbia, they gathered the Shiptars in a crowd and accused the Serbs, after that the bombing started. In every war, most civilians die on the premises. The destiny of every being is different and there are no coincidences in chaos, so that everyone gets what they deserve, whether to suffer sins and bad deeds through death? We have a lot of psychopaths and organic portals here, so why would you feel sorry for them? The whole world has become a great purgatory.

I was seeing the bombings you talk about in TV as a child. Now the NATO keeps their planes away.

 

[Possibility of Being]

And I was studying journalism and psychology,

For how long if I may ask?

so I think I can see beyond maybe not the event but the first instinct of perceiving it. It's simple.

That statement is either ignorant or arrogant. Possibly both. One of the top world experts on psychopathy, Robert Hare, famously admitted that after a few decades of work and study he'd had under his belt, they still were able to deceive him now and then.

I can't know 100% if these are real confessions to the psychologists, journalists, of them and the medics etc. But some of it is so cruel it just must be real,

Must? We are dealing with widespread massive propaganda appealing to people's emotions. Have you heard about babies thrown out from incubators? And what it lead to? This is just one example. Those who have been paying attention during the last decade can quote many more.

I observe, listen, follow my common sense and intuition.

And that's how you end up mislead. The massive propaganda is aimed at just such viewers/readers. In fact it doesn't even use sophisticated methods. With hysterised society as we see nowadays, the simplest tricks work. Graphic pictures, scary stories, manipulated and/or misrepresented videos posted on social media and reposted hundreds of times. To really have a chance to see through this kind of lies, you need a quite good understanding of history, ability to recognize patterns, see the bigger picture and have knowledge of what this war is about and who are the forces fueling it. Only with such understanding you can attempt assessing what is real/true and what is not.

This is not the best place to expand the feedback, so I'd suggest that you read the whole threads first (especially the 2nd one):
Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?
Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

and open your own thread if any questions arise in the process.

 

[Alejo]

It wasn't motivated by the Bucha report, I was doing the research since day one.

And have you gathered any sources that you could share? because otherwise it sounds like exactly the narrative that the West would have the entire world believe about the absolute evil of the Russian people, not just their leaders, but the whole of Russia.

I think you will always find that you will be able to express yourself in this forum, but such declarations as the ones you have made must be backed by something... otherwise they're simply that, declarations. And by the same token, your free expression will always be met with questions if deemed necessary.

Having said the above, I repeat, is there any evidence that you can share to back the claims that you have made?

 

[shrinocri]

For how long if I may ask?

I think it is your way of reducing me at the very beginning and I'm not going to argue and argue, but for your information for several years. It doesn't have to mean anything though. You sound like a person who would do the same job for ten years and despise someone who does it for a year. It can mean a world or nothing. Routine also means something positive and negative.

That statement is either ignorant or arrogant. Possibly both. One of the top world experts on psychopathy, Robert Hare, famously admitted that after a few decades of work and study he'd had under his belt, they still were able to deceive him now and then.

It's neither ignorant or arrogant. Everyone can rely on their common sense, knowledge and intuition only, otherwise you would only listen to authorities which are relying on the same because there's no other way. And I'm not talking about the psychopaths in particular. I talk about information which can be manipulated by whatsoever individual patterns and outer input. People, including me as a recipient, create enough emotional fuss and have simple mechanisms that you can see through with some experience because of the similarity. There's nothing to get angry about with such statement because it's a simple truth. Some information would be emotional, biased, fake and some not. The whole task is to distinguish it, and I think it is possible, otherwise you could not bother at all and that's what many people do either. And of course everyone would like their pattern of thinking confirmed. Including yourself.
And of course psychopaths would surprise him.

Must? We are dealing with widespread massive propaganda appealing to people's emotions. Have you heard about babies thrown out from incubators? And what it lead to? This is just one example. Those who have been paying attention during the last decade can quote many more.

No, I didn't hear about babies thrown out from incubators. And sure you can call 'must' an unfortunate statement but it was contrary to believe most of it is fake or goodness.
And yes, you would say some of the info must be true. For example 'civilians are shot', 'soldiers are killed', 'women are raped', 'people are starving and dying of stress', 'there are going to be life lasting traumas'. Question it if you please.

And that's how you end up mislead. The massive propaganda is aimed at just such viewers/readers. In fact it doesn't even use sophisticated methods. With hysterised society as we see nowadays, the simplest tricks work. Graphic pictures, scary stories, manipulated and/or misrepresented videos posted on social media and reposted hundreds of times. To really have a chance to see through this kind of lies, you need a quite good understanding of history, ability to recognize patterns, see the bigger picture and have knowledge of what this war is about and who are the forces fueling it. Only with such understanding you can attempt assessing what is real/true and what is not.

This is not the best place to expand the feedback, so I'd suggest that you read the whole threads first (especially the 2nd one):
Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?
Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

and open your own thread if any questions arise in the process.

Thank you, I'm going to do so.

And have you gathered any sources that you could share? Because otherwise it sounds like exactly the narrative that the West would have the entire world believe about the absolute evil of the Russian people, not just their leaders, but the whole of Russia.

I think you will always find that you will be able to express yourself in this forum, but such declarations as the ones you have made must be backed by something... otherwise they're simply that, declarations. And by the same token, your free expression will always be met with questions if deemed necessary.

Having said the above, I repeat, is there any evidence that you can share to back the claims that you have made?

I don't say all the Russian people are evil. I don't know it. I know the basics of how the societies work though and how fanatic and blind people can get. I can presume many of them aren't evil but intimidated. And I wouldn't be optimistic about that.
And there's some evidence but I'm using my native language and social media reports. You have to be careful with emotional stuff and PR.

 

[Claus]

Why is it so hard for you to just say how long you are at this theme?
You only come here and beating arround the bush.
No one want to do bad things to you, we are only interrested in your view.
And therefor it is interesting for how long you are at this, how complete is your view of the picture?

 

[shrinocri]

Why is it so hard for you to just say how long you are at this theme?
You only come here and beating arround the bush.
No one want to do bad things to you, we are only interrested in your view.
And therefor it is interesting for how long you are at this, how complete is your view of the picture?

At this theme in particular? I was doing research since 24/02 about the events since then. There are different forms of manipulation and social pressure that I recon. I'm reading interviews with Ukrainians, Russians, Americans and others. The global politics and economy aren't something I love to think about, it's more like reality or a must. I've experienced dreams and intuition about war since end of last year, even though I personally met Ukrainians experiencing the conflict in 2014. Many of my subconscious thoughts relate to wide or global events, that's why I'm interested. Being easygoing doesn't seem possible as it's distressful. Don't get bothered with me though. There are threads about the issue so I can learn more. Thanks for answer.

 

[Ant22]

I think it is your way of reducing me at the very beginning and I'm not going to argue and argue, but for your information for several years. It doesn't have to mean anything though. You sound like a person who would do the same job for ten years and despise someone who does it for a year. It can mean a world or nothing. Routine also means something positive and negative.

Based on your posts you are someone who has done a rather poor job for a year and considers themselves and expert. You may wish to read our thread on the Dunning Kruger effect. Or at least google the term. I must say I have found the level of ignorance, arrogance and blind belief in the power of your intuition that shines through your posts to be quite shocking. Here's a good example:

I check some things online, see posts of so-called journalists, politics etc. or some news (in my case related to German policy) but I mostly seek for the first-hand, front-line information, etc. I can't know 100% if these are real confessions to the psychologists, journalists, of them and the medics etc. But some of it is so cruel it just must be real, and I've seen plenty of things on the videos.

What a weird thing to say. Horror movies are cruel too, if cruelty was the key determinator of what's real The Hostel would be classified as a documentary.

Your blind belief in the evidence before your eyes when there is plenty of proof on his forum alone that this evidence is largely manufactured by governments and the media shows that you may have wandered into the wrong bar. You have been given resources to get yourself familiar with and I strongly recommend you do that before posting more. Here they are again:

This is not the best place to expand the feedback, so I'd suggest that you read the whole threads first (especially the 2nd one):
Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?
Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

And given this post of yours:

Russians shot a public plane in 2014 killing 300, is their agenda telling it wasn't Russians?

I'll also suggest reading this thread: Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine. Spoiler alert: yes, we're telling you it wasn't Russia.

You have huge gaps in your knowledge and if you wish to remain an active participant on this forum it is highly recommended that you start filling them. It's not like we will throw years of gathering and critically assessing information out of the window and replace it with your intuition so you won't get far with your current level of understanding here.

No, I didn't hear about babies thrown out from incubators.

Yet another gap in your knowledge. So you haven't heard about a fake event used by the Western media to justify and gather support for an invasion in Iraq that started the first of a series of wars in that region? You say you do research and yet your latest posts on Russia show that you have fully bought into the media propaganda. The same media that has an enormous track record of lying. It's rather hard not to question the quality of that research and the accuracy of your intuitive compass.

 

[Ant22]

At this theme in particular? I was doing research since 24/02 about the events since then.

So you've been doing dreams & intuition inspired "research" for around a month and a half and somehow you think that our years of gathering and assessing information are inferior? This is a research-based forum, not a clairvoyants' club.

I've experienced dreams and intuition about war since end of last year, even though I personally met Ukrainians experiencing the conflict in 2014. Many of my subconscious thoughts relate to wide or global events, that's why I'm interested.

Sounds like magical thinking to me. Your dreams and intuition are clearly incorrect so maybe it's time you got yourself familiar with facts instead of trusting your airy fairy "subconscious thoughts". They have clearly led you astray, so pease do get yourself familiar with the threads linked above ASAP.

There are threads about the issue so I can learn more. Thanks for answer.

I sincerely do hope you will do that.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

For those who trust what they see in the mainstream media, it would be worth considering why it appears there at all. If, by way of elimination, we are able to reject the fact that the goal of the mainstream media is to tell us only the truth. It is logical for us to admit that they will lie.

If we add to this that informing us is targeted, that it is a process of deliberately giving out certain information (properly selected and in an appropriate manner given), then what are we dealing with? Lying then ceases to be the result of a thinking error or inevitable not being fully educated in the continuous process of learning and finding the truth, but a conscious lying.

And this is what we are facing. As covid was a compaign of disinformation and manipulation, now we have a new campaign and it is "Russia's attack on Ukraine." I am not saying that there is no such thing, it is just something different than what they give us and you can notice it very quickly when you just want it at least a little.

 

[Possibility of Being]

I think it is your way of reducing me at the very beginning

I think you're making a whole world of assumption

It doesn't have to mean anything though. You sound like a person who would do the same job for ten years and despise someone who does it for a year. It can mean a world or nothing. Routine also means something positive and negative.

and becoming defensive when there is no reason for that. I asked, because I know a thing or two about the education system and can see what effects it has on students, especially in the humanities; and they are not what should be expected from good education, unfortunately.

Everyone can rely on their common sense, knowledge and intuition only, otherwise you would only listen to authorities which are relying on the same because there's no other way.

Of course everyone can, but to what result? Common sense, knowledge (this one was missing from your previous claim) and intuition, all have their limitations so it's not very wise to rely on those solely. And why either-or? Why only? Why not to combine both for the best outcome? You know, I spent the last 15+ years following political events, learning about political history, among other things, and still don't consider myself expert, far from that. So I consult my understanding with those who know more and listen to them. Lost my way more than once exploring some unknown (to me) lands, only to eventually reach a dead end and realise I should have had listened better. Left traces of those adventures on some forum threads. But I did learn a few things from that, like how to spot a trap a bit quicker, for example.

Here, on the forum rarely anyone comes with a strong conviction, drops it here and doesn't show any interest in other members' feedback. Such people are clearly not into learning which is the very purpose of this place: calibrating our intuition, expanding our knowledge and getting closer to the objective view of the reality. Insisting on one's own views is none of those.

And there's some evidence but I'm using my native language and social media reports.

I'm sorry to say that evidence and reports available in your native language are mostly trash, with rather scarce exceptions. Would you be up to the task of finding those? And remember our mantra: Learning IS fun.