Is There an Ideal Way of Acting and Being in Male-Female Relationships?

[doubleback]

If You say ideal relationship then this phrase evokes one solution. Like it is only one. But is there? At least I do not believe so.
I imagine, maybe wrongly - as this is not knowledge but more of working hypothesis that we are like instruments playing different sounds, different vibrations and with good tuning we may play nice, pleasant harmonies, that are resonating and having a lot of energy, a lot more then one instrument by its own tune. Well just intuition/ feeling. So this would be ideal - to be able to play together harmonic tunes that we and others would like to listen with pleasure for benefit of all. In contrast with tunes that are frightening, depressing, disharmonic resembling Yanis Xenakis works :).

Yes! That's it. Well that's what I'm thinking, only using different words. If you're feeling your body as full and complete energetically, you can play these tunes easily, and the other side will feel them.

 

[doubleback]

And it would not be boring, aucontraire as would Dell Trotter say.

 

[Michal]

I did react unfairly to Corvus' initial post and possibly primed others to do the same. Also want to apologize for calling @Corvus an incel in so many words. I'm glad he came back and is continuing to post in this thread despite the initial blowback he received. We are all on a learning process, no matter what it says next to our name here. And this topic can be triggering as Asa pointed out. I like where the discussion is at now, I think there's a lot to be learned from a healthy back and forth.

Beau, thank You for that comment. My trust has grown.

 

[doubleback]

In all interactions, be it male-female or any other, at work or whatever, our level of energy is felt through our posture, behaviour, through choosing of words. No amount of false pretending can bring about the desired outcome which can fullfill your soul as the true expression of your inner calmness and fullness, if it exists, of course.
If our energy level changes, everything changes, our understanding, our reactions, our environment which starts to be seen in different light.

 

[Ryan]

Once thought came to me: how many wars are purely men thing and how many fights/wars/male agression is/was inspired by women?

I noticed you sandwiched "wars" in between "fights" and "male aggression". They are not the same. Aggression is not a fight, and neither of them are a war; there's almost certainly a pathological component to any large-scale conflict. See Laura's article "The Golden Age, Psychopathy and the Sixth Extinction", Lobaczewski, and Gurdjieff's comments regarding war for more information. It's also pretty likely that Helen of Troy, as described by Herodotus, didn't really exist.

This is getting off-topic though, so if you want to discuss further, please reply in a more suitable thread.

What did You mean by that?

It's a reference to something Pierre said. It may have been during, or related to, a session, if memory serves.

IMO when some topic keeps popping up again and again that creates a lot of, um, 'emotionality', it's probably a good idea to dive in and really start working on it. Don't want any billboards falling on our heads!

Yep, good call.

 

[BHelmet]

Is it really feminism, at the core, that is at the root of modern male/female relationship dysfunction or is feminism just a convenient label for some other set of issues? IOW does calling the “problem” feminism, actually a vector away from the truth of what is going on? Is there a truer catch word to name it?

Feminism is a loaded word with connotations galore and implications and embedded assumptions all over the place. I’m not even sure how to define the word since, to me, it is not an oxymoron but a monomoron! A single word that contradicts itself. What is feminine about feminism? And let’s not forget it is a Johnny-come-lately entry into the lexicon. 1970’s “movement “ supposedly empowering women by removing them from traditional female roles. A loaded gun we are playing with!

 

[mkrnhr]

If You say ideal relationship then this phrase evokes one solution. Like it is only one. But is there? At least I do not believe so.
I imagine, maybe wrongly - as this is not knowledge but more of working hypothesis that we are like instruments playing different sounds, different vibrations and with good tuning we may play nice, pleasant harmonies, that are resonating and having a lot of energy, a lot more then one instrument by its own tune. Well just intuition/ feeling. So this would be ideal - to be able to play together harmonic tunes that we and others would like to listen with pleasure for benefit of all. In contrast with tunes that are frightening, depressing, disharmonic resembling Yanis Xenakis works :).

Exactly. An to borrow from the the music analogy, in order to play (as a side note, play is important in what is referred-to as dating or flirting etc.) in a harmonic way, there is no need to play the same instrument and the same note. A symphony also has tension (not "disharmonic" though) with resolution, which brings in movement, growth and space.

 

[Ryan]

Can anyone think of any other examples of where 'truths' about most women from a man's perspective are actually truths about most human beings from other human beings' perspective?

1. Women want a man to be honest.
2. Women want a man to treat them courteously.
3. Women want to be with men who make them laugh.
4. Women want men who don't generate, and can cope with, drama.
5. Women want to be around men who can be themselves.
6. Women want to know a man has "got their back".
7. Women want their relationship with a man to be mutually beneficial.

 

[PERLOU]

Ryan, je n'ai pas compris ces deux points sans doute à cause de la traduction...
5. Les femmes veulent être entourées d’hommes qui peuvent être elles-mêmes.
6. Les femmes veulent savoir qu’un homme a « récupéré leurs arrières ».

Ryan, I didn't understand these two points probably because of the translation...
5. Women want to be around men who can be themselves.
6. Women want to know that a man has "checked their back."

En ce qui me concerne, j'apprécie la galanterie qui se perd de plus en plus, pas seulement le respect... Mais je suis d'un autre âge 68 ans...
As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate gallantry which is being lost more and more, not just respect... But I am of another age 68 years old...

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

I apologize to those who are having thought crises about my comments and nothing more I want to know learn and gain knowledge

Jimmy Ssaz.
I can tell you I am not having any thought crises about your comments because, basically, I don't understand what you mean .... literally I don't comprehend what you are trying to say.
As Revolucionar said you seem to speak in metaphors but they don't seem to have any meaning when they come through the translating machine, that is, if you are using one.
From what I can glean you have good ideas but they are lost in translation.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

The Metaphors are just for Jimmy! LOL.

You'll get a wooden spoon for Xmas. bad boy.!!!!!!

 

[mkrnhr]

Ryan, je n'ai pas compris ces deux points sans doute à cause de la traduction...

Une traduction sommaire serait peut-être:
5. Women want to be around men who can be themselves.
5. Les femmes veulent être avec des hommes qui peuvent être eux-même.
6. Women want to know a man has "got their back".
6. Les femmes veulent savoir qu'elles peuvent compter sur un homme.
Hope it helps.

 

[Renaissance]

Women, being more "emotional" (let's say, 'have stronger emotions') are given more of a pass than men who are, by nature, less emotional and more logical. For this reason, it's not ideal that men are too emotionally reactive because that's the woman's 'role', while it's the man's 'role' to calm those moments of emotional turmoil that beset women (through no fault of their own other than choosing to be born a woman!)

BUT, the problem arises when men decide that any and all emotional reactivity from women is a 'bad sign' and to try to exploit and use it against women to control and "manipulate them back". ALL normal women can be overly emotional at times (from a man's perspective). Any man who sees normal female emotionality as a threat, is a man who simply is unable to handle HIS own emotions and is therefore "acting like a woman".

My experience is that you can't reason with anyone when they're in an emotional state. And yes, it's not controversial to say that women are "more emotional" than men. Just to be clearly, please, FINALLY, ONCE AND FOR ALL, being "more emotional" than men is NOT A BAD THING. Quite the opposite in fact.

The emotional nature of women can be quite a force to reckon with for a man, and I agree it is impossible to 'withstand' when a man is feminized, or 'acts like a women'. Speaking for myself, I know I can have fears about 'not being a good enough man', and that does me no good as that fear is a feminization in and of itself, or can at least lead to it. That fear doesn't need coddling, soothing, or ego inflation, and it is probably a woman's healthy instinctive role to step on those corns. I find an ideal ideal way of actually addressing those fears in myself are really best dealt with doing something of value - of actually being a good man. Women do have a deep sense of men's weaknesses, even if (or somehow because) their rationality regarding those things is off. I don't know if I am seeing this accurately, but it like it is of a woman's nature and task to challenge our strict rationality and emotional weaknesses, and it is our task to live up to that. I don't think it is just that woman's emotions are stronger. They can have emotional storms and yet at the same time they can also have a type of emotional intelligence in relation to chaos that is lacking in men, or at least processed differently. The strong emotionality can 'wake us up' in some instances and in various ways. And it can show us what needs tempering in other ways.

An interesting thing is that men and women both have weaknesses (duh!) but there are very different needs for each sex surrounding those weaknesses, particularly in relationships. What is good for a man can be harmful to a woman and vise versa. It's a shame that our society has become so backward that such a basic insight has been eroded. This is a complicated issue too though, given the conditions of the modern world and how the two sexes have tried to adapt.

 

[Joe]

@Andromeda made a good point to me on this topic recently. What about different types of people and purported OPs? Is it possible (likely even) that a lot of this kind of literature on "how to attract women" is using 'OP' women as a reference? Women who are largely content to be seen as 'giggling feminine girls' by men, and little more.

In that case, where does that leave women who are and want, let's say, more than that?

Also, does this kind of literature not run the risk of encouraging narcissism in men that read it, where the are encouraged to view ALL women from that oversimplified perspective, and that the "most natural" way for a woman to be is a kind of "little lady" constantly fawning over her big burly caricature of a manly husband?

And if and when, later in a relationship, these men find out that their girlfriends or wives are not content with that framing of the relationship, and rebel against it in their "evil wily womanly ways", the men get all upset and claim that their girlfriends/wives have been "mind programmed by feminism".

From this perspective, it's more understandable why Sandra Brown labeled the first post as being "sexist". I suppose what she MIGHT have meant by that is that it fails to take into consideration the differences and nuances and complexities of women, in favor of an over-simplified, arrogant and obtuse analysis (however true in certain situations for some women).

 

[Rhansen]

It is interesting that most proposed "solutions" involve lists of procedures, very left-brained oriented: first day: look 30° to the right, give her 30g of 72.5% chocolate, touch her hand for 3.2 seconds, etc.

Interestingly enough I found that not initiating any conversation until after her first cup of coffee worked wonders. YMMV