Is what we do "important"?

[gottathink]

Totally similar to my take. If I am here with a truth orientation, then if it is the right thing to do, then do it. The rest does not matter than much since it is in us to do it. The Universe will take care of the rest.

Mine also, besides what the hell else are we to do apart from do what is right? No point in trying to decide if it matters, because if the answer is it doesn’t matter we still will do it, that is do whats right to the best our our knowledge. We will do what we will do precisely because we ourselves matter.

I think our training is understanding how everything in our reality works. Then we take actions to reduce unnecessary suffering for ourselves and others. It is exactly what we are all doing already isn’t it?

 

[Fluffy]

That seems to be the only thing we can really do, and we must do it on faith.

I think my main motivation for asking this question is that, here in this world, we have the means to assess the results of our efforts, be they good or bad, and we can orientate ourselves based on those results.

Yet at the same time, as part of this group, we have (supposedly) a 'mission' that is supposed to have some kind of impact on a broader scale and yet we have no way or knowing if those efforts are having the desired results.

I suppose I'd like to be able to have a feedback mechanism through which we could get an idea if the efforts we make, individually and as a group, are having the desired effect. Or maybe, as has been suggested, the broader effect or 'mission' that may have a discernible impact, is for later, and for now, we are in training to be able to have that effect at that time. So the focus should be on the training, rather than how that training will be put into effect later, and what impact it may have.

What you do, Joe, and everyone who contributes here, affecting my own little microcosmic world, has made all the difference to firstly- my survival, I may have well given up long ago because of such intense suffering, and secondly to the growth of the people around me who have been benefactors by proxy in my learning and understanding, even if the knowledge is in its most simplistic form.

I don’t know what the universe has in store for us, I sense it’s more about what we have to offer the universe. I’ll play my part, collecting all the fragmented pieces (at least trying to), many that I’ve shattered by my own volition, and piecing myself back together bit by bit …. is that not what the universe is trying to do, experience itself separated then return to Oneness?

And what’s in a name?
I’m Emma, this name’s old Germanic origin means whole/universal/entire/complete. I can only try to live up to that namesake.

 

[Ketone Cop]

So my question at this point is: what does our training look like? What are the activities we are doing regularly to prepare ourselves for who we want to be in the future? Who do we want to be as individuals and as a group? How can we measure that we are improving?

By my rough count, we've got 60-65 different individuals who've given their own often deeply thought-out input on "what's important" on this thread in response to Joe's question so far. By my own estimation, that's a pretty decent number of people willing to lay it all out there for all to see in order to further the understanding of the group with regards to just this one question.

(And I'd imagine there's a lot of other active members who've read this thread and are contemplating their own answers, maybe a few too shy to share yet.)

I think potentially far-reaching questions such as this are a good way to train the mind to stimulate research, synthesis of ideas, and discussion within the group. And there's a HECK of lot of threads like this throughout this forum that have stimulated such deep thinking that goes far beyond anything that "Jack Handey" ever did (talk about a poser!).

I think that this IS a large part of "the work". By simply discussing openly ideas like this, allowing discourse and not discouraging others but instead encouraging honest, truly thoughtful input as is done on this board, IS the way (or A way), IMHO. On this question alone, were this done on another public forum, I believe there would be much discussion meant to confuse, conflate, and demean those who worked to provide deep, honest, personal answers. The fact that does NOT happen here, and instead honest discourse is, indeed, encouraged is a sign to me that what we do here IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in its own way.

Our individuality is encouraged, acknowledged, and accepted as long as we work to give the most honest, complete answers we can to the questions and problems asked, and remain open to others and their own feedback. Those qualities are immeasurable, but absolutely required for deep-level analysis of any problems we are asked to analyze. And I especially appreciate how the discussions build on what was previously shared as members continue to synthesize what came before into a greater whole instead of getting lost in the weeds and attacking others ideas as happens so much elsewhere.

We're here for the real meat, and we're going to get that pudding because we EAT that meat instead of each other. My take anyway.

 

[Matty F]

I think it’s important for people to get there act together . I’ve noticed it in my own life regarding work. It’s not a glamorous job but more I knuckled done and stop complaining/feeling sorry for myself, things gradually improved.
The same thing with diet/fitness. The more I worked at it and gained more knowledge the more it improved.
That’s why I loved Jordan Petersons early lectures. The more you take more responsibility for yourself the more things improve. Now if everyone did that to the best of their ability, would that not transform society for the better?

 

[jess]

Thanks for sharing and all the comments, they have brought a lot to think about, I don't know if the following thought is on track close to the point, or too general and scattered, it's just something that somewhat came to me.
In the paragraph 17 Aug 2000, very interesting how the C's mention in A: What matters most is what others are doing, have done and will do. the three tenses i.e. present ("is") past ("have done") and future ("will do") about the "others", I get the impression as other members have already commented it's like what we do is not important, because maybe it doesn't "matter" how hard we try to do something, it just "is" (A: No help/hinder, just is.).
It is clearly difficult to try to glimpse beyond our human condition, but perhaps with The Wave, the human condition is simply in the opportunity to return to unity as a group soul. And maybe what we perceive as "others", is a part of ourselves to discover how to become one again.
I get the impression that if I try to understand what this "other" is? (pronoun1. a person or thing that is different or distinct from one already mentioned or known about.) I come across this structure of social programming about divisions, about classification, about what is separate, and then it comes to my mind that in the Universe it works as a whole, then even what seems "bad" or separate, is the other part of the same unit.

 

[BHelmet]

I suppose I'd like to be able to have a feedback mechanism through which we could get an idea if the efforts we make, individually and as a group, are having the desired effect. (Etc)

And the desired effect defined would be…? (Not that we don’t know, but the process of defining things in concrete terms is often an enlightening process and helps focus the aim)

You are Schrodingers goalie. You’ve been training in football school your whole life. You dive to make a save. You feel the ball bounce off your hand as you face plant into the turf and can’t see what happened. It’s a neutral field and you can’t tell who is cheering for what. Did you make the save or was it a goal?

Ultimately faith is required and you’ll find out later just what happened. I think that’s one of the ultimate questions and tests. It’s necessary to act in an environment of uncertainty (even with knowledge) and that requires faith and trust both in the universe and the self.

—————-

“I am doing that thing so that I can be done with doing that thing” contrasted with “I love doing doing that thing” and/or “I’m going to do the best I can and the chips will fall where they may”.

One of the lessons is that the lessons can come after the test and failure is often the teacher.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

Thank you so much everyone for your answers which say the same thing but in so many different ways. Just like we are different aspects of the same ( eventual whole).

Where we all find ourselves eventually is with the question....Are we doing whats required of us to help forge a new World, a World which we all want to see.? We have no road signs or markers to tell us but only our instincts.

However, we do have one other yardstick which I think is very important. The C's said at the end of one of the sessions that we are proceeding well or words to that effect. Not a pat on the back, for sure, but it's got to count surely?

 

[BHelmet]

And what’s in a name?
I’m Emma, this name’s old Germanic origin means whole/universal/entire/complete. I can only try to live up to that namesake.

I love this. On one hand we can look at our name and say that it's just something arbitrarily given by our parents. On the other hand, we can look at it and embrace it - view it from the perspective it is part of our karma; that we chose it before even coming here - we can try to own our name.

(Hopefully comical) Side note - The name "Fluffy" is a kind of meme in my family: a hypothetical innocent furry pet that gets blind-sided by a truck. IOW, pet illusions that get steamrolled by objective reality.

My own real name is Fairman and that one is a challenge to live up to. It encompasses both taking all sides into account and maintaining equilibrium, but, it also involves being part of a circus. I can see these two themes play out in what I say here. I have been criticized for excessively being a peacemaker and for seeming not serious/looking for laughs. There are always critics. But I do appreciate the friction and it has been a contribution to me even though it is not always enjoyable.

My point in saying this is for the lurkers. Yes, there is risk in sharing; in becoming known; in stepping into the spotlight. But it is worth it. It is part of growing the soul and a part of what can be done which hopefully contributes in a positive way. You don't know what you might share that would make a difference for someone else. So, this is an invitation to come on in, the water is fine. Yeah you might lose a few fingers and toes, but it's just burning away the dross and you might see yourself in a new way. It is a part of "Know thyself": a primary commandment. Just like investigating and owning your name.

 

[Gwenllian]

Where we all find ourselves eventually is with the question....Are we doing whats required of us to help forge a new World, a World which we all want to see.? We have no road signs or markers to tell us but only our instincts.

Indeed, and we have our creativity. Perhaps raising our frequency also means to side with the creative principle as opposed to destruction. In that sense everything I do becomes important, especially if I create something as an antidote to all the madness surrounding me. I have been focusing on the act of creating these past few months which has enabled me to deal with crazy people, as I am learning how to replace my own destructive tendencies with the creative principle. Personally, I would say it is very important what I do, because I notice the changes in myself. Can we even measure that?

 

[Revolucionar]

I'm a big believer in free will. Without it, the universe doesn't make sense.

So if there's free will, we're meant to exercise it. Even if the extent of our free will is miniscule and we can only choose going this way or that way, that choice is of at least some importance to all creation.

Intuitively, we know what's right and wrong. By acquiring knowledge, we are able to make those decisions more consistently and relating to a greater number of specific situations. So with more knowledge (and being) our free will increases and with it, our responsibility.

I guess the question of how much does what we do affect the universe at large, comes down to how much are we even responsible for.
And we do have immediate feedback for that.

I suppose I'd like to be able to have a feedback mechanism through which we could get an idea if the efforts we make, individually and as a group, are having the desired effect.

We can gauge it by looking at what our life looks like at different levels, from the internal and personal, to the external; be it immediate relationships with wives, husbands, children, friends, loved ones..., and then the more distant like our work environment and any other environment that we influence to some degree by being part of it.

I think that's what we can use to gauge the effect of our efforts. I know this network affected things positively in my life just by looking at the different aspects of my personal existence and the improvements therein. I'm sure this sort of thing propagates itself, but I don't think we should be too concerned about what the macro effects are.

I think the solution to the apparent contradiction in the Cs' quotes lies in perspective. There may be a predetermined outcome for this grand cycle, but how we get there and the individual stories that will contribute to that are yet to be written. In other words, if it wasn't us, it would be someone else. The universe would adjust. And maybe that's what Gurdjieff meant when he said that there is a limited amount of knowledge and not everyone can access it.

 

[BHelmet]

Re cosmic feedback: if the darkest hour is just before the dawn, then positive feedback might not necessarily be the true gauge. As the other saying goes, the flak is heaviest over the target.

 

[Alejo]

I'm with you Joe, I'd like to have a discernable feedback mechanism. How can we know we are training in the right direction if we don't have some way to measure our progress?

But then we also have that quote "life is religion..", perhaps the feedback mechanism lies in our life experiences overall, what we align ourselves with, regardless of difficulties, I think there's a key difference in what we experience based on the choices we make. Mind you, I think expecting to live a pleasant life, or with little difficulties as the result of making something, whatever it is, of paramount importance, is a mistake, and will only lead to disappointment. So that's not what I mean by our life experiences, rather the overall experience, not just the difficulty but our response to it as well, our network and how we transverse the difficulties. Put another way perhaps, a healthy body isn't one that never gets sick or injured, but one that recovers fully and promptly, and we can choose health and work towards it, and the swift recovery is the feedback from life.

If it is a free will universe, then importance is subjective and it may be the wrong item to look at when measuring our choices, that is, if it is subjective then asking the universe whether something is important will only get an answer of: Up to you.

So, perhaps the question isn't so much if what we do is important, but rather: what is important to us, individually and collectively? life then reflects back to us

 

[Pecha]

To add on to, maybe it's a matter of perspective and relativity. What we may deem important may be focused microscopically at humanity at large, but what are we really in the grand scheme of things? We can even expand that scope to the amalgamations of past & future incarnations on 3D and 4D and even these would seem very small at the level of the rewriters. In the vast universe, we are a small speck--if even!

Maybe we are where we are, so we can have this perspective of importance to our small little world at large and effect changes within and out.

A: What matters most is what others are doing, have done and will do.

The wording here is important. This implies that even us small folk have some agency in helping to determine an outcome, but obviously not at the level of the rewriters.

The Wave will come and effect change no matter what it seems. The choice I guess lies in being able to "ride the Wave", or be an efficient receptor & transducer of these energies. The microcosm is choosing whether to follow what Laura & team has laid out for us and continue to learn or not--there is similarity in that with the former.

No matter what choice we make, be it having to learn the hard way or not, ends in potential to learn. No matter how horrible a future it could be, there is still learning to be had. I've always believed that there's always a better way--we can make choices that could "lesson" potential pain of a path.

 

[Beyrutkapı]

A lot of people around me don't have any real questions. Most people have no interest in objective reality. In this sense, yes, personal development is extremely important. You can't force it to someone who doesn't want it. However, in order for more people to awaken, the number of homeopathic consciousness units must increase. I think there is no paradox in the perspective born from a higher understanding.

 

[Joe]

This is, perhaps, relevant

A: Keep on the course. Did you ever wonder if some of the "failure" of the other side might not be a result of the energy you are generating?

Q: (L) What do you mean "failure"?

A: Like "Climategate"?

Q: (L) You mean, if we, our group, our forum, our activities generate certain energies, it empowers people who aren't even connected to us to do things?

A: Yes

Q: (L) Well!

(C******) So they would have the courage to stand up and say what really is.

(L) Well, I guess we gotta keep on going because it's so much fun to see these things coming out! (laughter) I mean, I don't wanna stop the show or anything. We've gotta keep the lights going.

A: And on that fun thought, goodbye.