Jeff Volek - The Many Facets of Keto-Adaptation Video

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Nienna said:
Laura said:
Somehow I get the feeling that you don't really know what you are doing, Fluffy. That's just an impression I get from your responses, remarks, suggestions. Have you read the entire "Life Without Bread" and "Ketogenic Diet" threads? Have you watched the videos posted in this thread? If so, you would probably know more about the ketone test strips.

I quite agree with Laura.

Fluffy, it was suggested to you here and you replied:

Fluffy said:
Minas Tirith said:
Also, maybe it would be better if you started with going Paleo instead of jumping into Keto all at once. I know everyone is different, but a couple of weeks Paleo weans you off stuff more subtle and you have more varieties of foods to eat (as we are programmed to do). I am by far not an expert, so if there are more knowledgeable folks here who want to contradict this approach please go ahead.

M.T.
.
I'm an all or nothing person, might as well go straight for the keto, paleo is good but have you seen the so called sweet paleo recipes ... I spend all day looking up paleo desserts ;)
I'm doing good, today is day one and I'm pumped and enthused, I could really use some discipline in my life right now coz I have very little else going on... I'm going to prove to my self that I can beat sugar.... Yeah, go me!!!!

Beating sugar is one thing, it is ill advised to just go straight into a ketogenic diet. It is said quite frequently on this forum that doing something just to do it, without understanding why and how to do it, is the wrong way to do anything.

There are so many things that have been discovered, found, discarded by many members here that doing either one of these diets without the many details and findings of the group is fairly detrimental to you health, both physically and mentally.

You seem to have a cavalier attitude about everything you post about. You don't ever question your own thinking, even when things have been pointed out to you.

Along with reading the two diet threads, it would be good if you could, also, read, Thinking Fast and Slow and The Adaptive Unconscious.

The thing is, you say that you could really use some discipline in your life right now, but, then, just jump in to the KD without any discipline at all.

Added: You might, also, want to read the Candida thread. Since you say that you have eaten so much sugar and crave it, you most probably have candida; and it would be the little critters that are screaming for the sugar more than you are.
the 'you are not so smart' thread seems to be missing or off limits to me, but i will read the others and already read the candida one as you suggested and really relate there..
thanks again, sometimes we all need someone to pull us inline a bit..
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Laura said:
Fluffy said:
chia seed soaked in water is a great egg replacement at a ratio of 1:9 chia + water.

is anyone else testing their ketones???
mine were off the chart this morning and I was feeling really unwell until I had a few sticks of celery and a handful of baby spinach in my coconut cream scrambled eggs..
Thinking I need to have a few carbs to keep up with breastmilk supply too.. For those who can do a bit of carbs this recipe is awaesome for fat, protein and a bit of carb

Almond Meal Bread
1cup almond meal
1/4-1/2 cup of oil of choice
2 eggs
1/2 teaspoon salt

mix together, mold onto a oiled plate and put into microwave for 3ish minutes. It wont grow.
eat hot with loads butter and friends :)

Somehow I get the feeling that you don't really know what you are doing, Fluffy. That's just an impression I get from your responses, remarks, suggestions. Have you read the entire "Life Without Bread" and "Ketogenic Diet" threads? Have you watched the videos posted in this thread? If so, you would probably know more about the ketone test strips.

In your case, nursing a baby, I would be eating plenty of veggies like carrots, beets, sweet potatoes, green beans, lettuce, and adding avocados almost daily. Plus, moderate amounts of meat (especially early in the morning), lots of butter, egg YOLKS, coconut fat (if tolerated) etc. But nuts are common allergens and should be tested (walnuts and macadamias seem to be the safest) and spinach has some antinutrients that might not be good for the baby or you. Same with many cruciferous veggies. Anytime I ate cabbage or broccoli while nursing, my babies had terrible tummyaches.

Doing keto-adaptation while nursing may not be such a good idea though you can certainly eat paleo.

A nice baby food would be an egg yolk, butter and coconut milk custard, unsweetened, just lightly salted.

baby seems to have an egg intolerance, I've tried feeding her custard with our home grown eggs and breastmilk a few times and after a few hours she gets really sick and empties her digestive tract...

I agree that broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage aren't any good for bub, i learned that by trying to figure out what i was eating that made her so unhappy, I wasn't aware baby spinach had antinutrients though.

Some of the keto info talk about nuts being a good source of fat and protein, low in carbs, I don't seem to have a problem with almonds or walnuts, the rest make me feel a bit sick.

Other info says it's okay to be in ketosis while breastfeeding because back in the caveman days women would eat due to season and availability so would often spend much time in ketosis as carb rich foods were limited... I will keep all the info in mind and look out for any negative responses in my daughter.
Thanks again
 

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Here is a KETO calculator where you can get personalized recommendations for weight loss or maintenance of your current weight, or to gain weight.

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

I've got a question about protein. Gedgaudas and others recommend not eating more than about 25g of protein per meal, but according to the calculator I should be eating about 90g of protein per day. I usually only eat 2 meals a day. Diet experts, is there any problem splitting that into 2 meals? Or should I try to fit in a third meal somewhere just for the sake of keeping my protein-per-meal amount closer to ideal?
 

A Jay

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Approaching Infinity said:
Laura said:
Here is a KETO calculator where you can get personalized recommendations for weight loss or maintenance of your current weight, or to gain weight.

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

I've got a question about protein. Gedgaudas and others recommend not eating more than about 25g of protein per meal, but according to the calculator I should be eating about 90g of protein per day. I usually only eat 2 meals a day. Diet experts, is there any problem splitting that into 2 meals? Or should I try to fit in a third meal somewhere just for the sake of keeping my protein-per-meal amount closer to ideal?

In 'The Art and Science of Low Carb Living,' there's a meal suggestion with an 8 oz steak, one with 8 oz of baby back ribs, and in TASLCP there are similarly large recommendations for 'protein' portions.

I just found this source online that reiterates Phinney and Volek's larger portion size suggestions:

_http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/daily-protein-requirement.html

In contrast, Dr. Westman, Dr. Phinney, and Dr. Volek recommend a higher protein intake. Their book "New Atkins for a New You: The Ultimate Diet for Shedding Weight and Feeling Great" recommends a daily protein requirement as follows:

These are daily totals. Remember to divide the total ounces by the number of meals you are eating. For instance, if your total daily protein requirement is 18 ounces of protein, and you eat three meals a day, you would divide 18 by 3, and eat 6 ounces of protein at each meal.

Here's a quick reference to help you figure out how to follow a daily protein requirement on a visual basis. An ounce of protein looks like:

An ounce of meat or chicken usually contains about 7 grams of protein, and visually is about the size of a car key remote.
A large egg contains about 6-7 grams of protein.
Fish contains about 7 grams of protein per ounce, and 3 ounces is about the size of a checkbook.
An ounce of hard cheese can contain between 6 and 7 grams of protein, and is the size of 4 dice put together in a block.

So it would seem that your 45g/meal should be fine, especially if consumed with lots of fat. OSIT.
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
After doing a bit more reading about ketosis and the brain I just want to ask if you think I want to be in the keto adapted state for the right reasons.
About ten years ago I was considered to be elite in fitness, my overall health was optimal and I mostly scored off the charts (even though I was a 20 a day smoker). These tests were done at the AIS, the same ones used to test athletes, I had a very sharp mind and phenomenal memory.

Then I went through a major depression, it lasted 5 years. I was really messed up and on all sorts of medications, prescribed and non-prescribed. I would not sleep for a week at a time, then sleep for 3 days straight, I ate sporadically, I cried for weeks on end... Ultimately I watched myself degrade to a shadow of the person I was and at times I could barely remember who that was...

For the past 5 years I've been in a healing process, everything is pretty fabulous these days, my physical health has rebounded well, still a work in progress, and my mental health as far as emotional stability has never been better... But as for my neurological health, hmmm, I killed off so many neurons that sometimes I cant remember what was written on the page I just read...
I might have the wrong idea here but I feel the ketogenic lifestyle might be a really good way to help me mend the damage to my brain... I don't have issues with weight, I most likely have a candida overgrowth, but from what I've read I don't think it's very severe. I have good energy even though I don't sleep that solidly coz of baby, I exercise by walking and doing some resistance exercises, I generally eat well, minus the fruit consumption that was getting out of hand at up to 5 pieces a day sometimes. I am happy and I try hard to be a decent, open-minded and well balanced person...

I've already claimed in other threads that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed and I'm okay with needing to be lead and guided sometimes, I'm heeding all the suggestions everyone is making, reading threads, watching vids, looking on www at other related info. I just wanted to be clear on my reasoning for wanting to choose this dietary path... what do you all think?
I'm up for all advice and opinions, and i really make a good effort to not take anything too personally so I don't mind if you want to tell me straight... I'm not stupid, I just have bad luck with thinking ;)
 

Goemon_

Jedi Council Member
Fluffy said:
Other info says it's okay to be in ketosis while breastfeeding because back in the caveman days women would eat due to season and availability so would often spend much time in ketosis as carb rich foods were limited... I will keep all the info in mind and look out for any negative responses in my daughter.
Thanks again

As Laura said :

Laura said:
Doing keto-adaptation while nursing may not be such a good idea though you can certainly eat paleo.

So, the problem is not ketosis while nursing, it is the process of adaptation to ketosis when nursing, and as it has been said before, you could be in ketosis and not keto-adapted. So the keto-adaptation take some time.
 

Gaby

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
A Jay said:
So it would seem that your 45g/meal should be fine, especially if consumed with lots of fat. OSIT.

Yeah, Gedgaudas' numbers are based on Ron Rosedale's longevity research. It is 0.8 grams of protein per kilo of ideal weight. This longevity research points to excess protein as a cause of aging markers. So Rosedale insists on increasing fat intake and restrict (moderately) the protein intake. For him 45 grams at once might be a little bit too much. But we have to keep in mind that this is not a hard core proven formula. He worked (and works) with people afflicted of metabolic syndrome and other diseases.

If a person is young and/or relatively active, the numbers might not strictly apply. Also, at the beginning, some people might suffer unnecessarily if they limit a lot their protein intake.

Volek and other paleo bloggers (Mark Sisson comes to mind) recommend much more protein per kilo, like the keto calculator quoted above. Something around 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per kilo. These researchers have studied and/or reviewed material for athletes and so forth.

We have quoted extensively this research on the Life Without Bread and Ketogenic diet thread. I have yet to watch the videos in this thread and catch up with the document, but I thought I could share here a revision summary I wrote awhile ago in this thread once I catch up. Maybe the diet gurus in this forum can chime in and polish it out and/or add missing stuff. If anything, it is a review of what has been covered in the past few years. Some questions and quoted research come up again and again and again in the diet threads, like a loop... So maybe having a google document available is a good start and reference as people make their way through the diet threads. :)
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Goemon_ said:
Fluffy said:
Other info says it's okay to be in ketosis while breastfeeding because back in the caveman days women would eat due to season and availability so would often spend much time in ketosis as carb rich foods were limited... I will keep all the info in mind and look out for any negative responses in my daughter.
Thanks again

As Laura said :

Laura said:
Doing keto-adaptation while nursing may not be such a good idea though you can certainly eat paleo.

So, the problem is not ketosis while nursing, it is the process of adaptation to ketosis when nursing, and as it has been said before, you could be in ketosis and not keto-adapted. So the keto-adaptation take some time.
thank you for pointing that out... i understand keto-adaptation can take many months or longer in some people. I will look further into it.
 

Nienna

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Moderator
FOTCM Member
Fluffy said:
the 'you are not so smart' thread seems to be missing or off limits to me, but i will read the others and already read the candida one as you suggested and really relate there..
thanks again, sometimes we all need someone to pull us inline a bit..

Hmmm, it shouldn't be. It is on the same board as the rest. I just clicked it and had no problems so maybe someone else can try it to see what is up with it.
 

Nicholas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Nienna said:
Fluffy said:
the 'you are not so smart' thread seems to be missing or off limits to me, but i will read the others and already read the candida one as you suggested and really relate there..
thanks again, sometimes we all need someone to pull us inline a bit..

Hmmm, it shouldn't be. It is on the same board as the rest. I just clicked it and had no problems so maybe someone else can try it to see what is up with it.

I have the same error when I try to access that link.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nicolas said:
Nienna said:
Fluffy said:
the 'you are not so smart' thread seems to be missing or off limits to me, but i will read the others and already read the candida one as you suggested and really relate there..
thanks again, sometimes we all need someone to pull us inline a bit..

Hmmm, it shouldn't be. It is on the same board as the rest. I just clicked it and had no problems so maybe someone else can try it to see what is up with it.

I have the same error when I try to access that link.

I just realized that it has been moved, so, yes, you cannot go there. Very sorry for the confusion. I'm going to edit the links so that they are no longer there.

Just goes to show that I am not so smart! ;)
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Nienna said:
Fluffy said:
the 'you are not so smart' thread seems to be missing or off limits to me, but i will read the others and already read the candida one as you suggested and really relate there..
thanks again, sometimes we all need someone to pull us inline a bit..

Hmmm, it shouldn't be. It is on the same board as the rest. I just clicked it and had no problems so maybe someone else can try it to see what is up with it.

No, it's not. It's the mod's discussion. Check at the top of the thread and please change the link.
 

Tomek

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
I searched for "keto shake" on google and I found interresting results. Another keywords for this kind of meal is "fat bombs"

_http://dietketo.com/keto-food/fat-bombs/

Ingredients for fat bombs

3/4 cup melted coconut oil
150g almond butter
60 drops liquid Stevia (replace with xylitol)
50g cocoa
150g melted salted butter

Take the above ingredients and stir them together. Put them into small muffin holders or other thing and put into the freezer for around 30min. Can be kept in the freezer if needed. Whole batch ends up at 91% fat, 4% protein and 5% carbs.

Based on the above recipe for fat bombs I have created some recipes on my own that you are free to try out. Personally I do not like to have additional sweeteners included so I always try to remove the Stevia and instead add 85% chocolate. You can mix around a little with the sizes of the different ingredients to get the one best for your taste. If you need something more sweet you can add on additional Stevia.
 

fabric

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Gaby said:
A Jay said:
So it would seem that your 45g/meal should be fine, especially if consumed with lots of fat. OSIT.

Yeah, Gedgaudas' numbers are based on Ron Rosedale's longevity research. It is 0.8 grams of protein per kilo of ideal weight. This longevity research points to excess protein as a cause of aging markers. So Rosedale insists on increasing fat intake and restrict (moderately) the protein intake. For him 45 grams at once might be a little bit too much. But we have to keep in mind that this is not a hard core proven formula. He worked (and works) with people afflicted of metabolic syndrome and other diseases.

If a person is young and/or relatively active, the numbers might not strictly apply. Also, at the beginning, some people might suffer unnecessarily if they limit a lot their protein intake.

Volek and other paleo bloggers (Mark Sisson comes to mind) recommend much more protein per kilo, like the keto calculator quoted above. Something around 1 to 1.5 grams of protein per kilo. These researchers have studied and/or reviewed material for athletes and so forth.

We have quoted extensively this research on the Life Without Bread and Ketogenic diet thread. I have yet to watch the videos in this thread and catch up with the document, but I thought I could share here a revision summary I wrote awhile ago in this thread once I catch up. Maybe the diet gurus in this forum can chime in and polish it out and/or add missing stuff. If anything, it is a review of what has been covered in the past few years. Some questions and quoted research come up again and again and again in the diet threads, like a loop... So maybe having a google document available is a good start and reference as people make their way through the diet threads. :)

I've noticed with my meals that even when I ate lots of fat with my meal, when I restricted my protein to 3oz (or 25g) I would be hungry just a couple of hours later. Then when I started increasing it a bit to 4-5oz per meal, I would feel perfectly full and would be able to go all day without feeling hungry. So I didn't worry too much about Nora's restriction and went more with what Volek and others have stated. One thing I would like to experiment with is varying dosages of protein and taking blood ketone measurements to gauge what my optimum intake would be. Good thing we have lots of test strips! ;) (Thanks 3d Student)

That link with the calculator is pretty handy for figuring things out. Though I wish it would adjust for weight gain, as I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum and need to put on a few pounds :P
 

Arwenn

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I've posted this on the Keto thread, but I'll also include this here for newbies to the diet

So here's my update on the diet which I started 2 months ago. I started out by cutting out all bread wheat gluten. Then I cut out sugar by switching to stevia. I haven't cut out dairy yet, because since giving up the sugar by God have I been having cravings!! I may have a candida issue, although I don't have any symptoms of fungal infections. I have milk in my tea, and some cheese & yogurt occasionally, so it's not like I'm guzzling down the milk. And if by chance there is some gluten that has been snuck in somewhere my gut tells me immediately by bloating, so going back to my old diet is not an option for me.

So, I figure I'm not eating enough fat at all and too much protein. I have all the symptoms of lowering my carbs (frequent urination, headaches occasionally, tiredness, lethargy and sleeping issues, no leg cramps as I'm taking Magnesium). I eat bacon and scrambled eggs with lots of butter, a range of fatty meats like lamb ribs, sausages, lamb cutlets and broth occasionally. With 27 degree days I'm not inclined to want to have soups/broth much. I've also been eating salted roasted nuts as a snack at work, which I am cutting out completely for the moment.

So any suggestions from you guys would be beneficial. I need to throw in some more supplements to help me over the hurdle, and this is what I was thinking about:
Celtic sea salt- 1/2 tsp in tall glass water in the morning
Magnesium
L-glutamine & L-carnitine
CoQ10
Potassium
Vit C
Caprylic acid by way of coconut oil to combat any Candida (starting with 1tsp and building up)
Slippery Elm to help heal the gut
Probiotics for same and Candida

Any suggestions on tweaking the above & advice on best time to take the individual supplements would be great. I also will visit the pharmacy to see if they have a test for measuring blood ketones. I've also read about FIR sauna blankets and if any Aussie forum members can direct me to a good source nationally (I will create a post in that thread), I would be very grateful.
 
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