Jeff Volek - The Many Facets of Keto-Adaptation Video

happyliza

The Living Force
Thanks for the guidance 3D Student. I too have had multiple attempts with all my gadgets to make the mayo. Still not successful so maybe I too better resort to the had whisk. I really do need the mayo as it is a tasty way to add more fat/oil.

I have to say that I don't understand the calculator thingy.

It has come up with this, from what I did put in. I want to just maintain weight as I lost too much -muscle too.

Not sure what the deficit refers to on the questions.

Now that you have chosen 80g of carbs and 80g protein, you have already 640kcal of your daily requirements covered with these nutrients. What's left for you to choose is how much fat to eat.

Here you can choose your caloric intake. Try a moderate deficit and only go lower if you feel comfortable after about a week.

Fat intake depends on your goal. If you want to lose weight, your total calories have to be below your maintenance calories of 1554kcal. Think of fat as your healthy filler nutrient: To maintain your current weight, fill all of the 914 remaining calories up with 101g fat. Don't go below 49g of fat.

I am sure I am having at least 200gms of fat/butter in cooking and mixed in the potato powder.
 

jsf

Jedi Master
Just saw that on a fb wall. Inuits :

The paper explains why they're not in ketosis. Two reasons.

Very high protein intake (av. 280 grams/day; fat only 135 grams)
Low carbohydrate, but not very low carbohydrate ("54 gm. of carbohydrate of which the bulk is derived from the glycogen of the meat eaten.")
Accordingly, with super sufficient protein to make glucose from dietary protein, combined with the meat carbs (liver and muscle glycogen) they get from eating raw, fresh kills, they maintain good glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity.

_http://freetheanimal.com/2014/03/reiterate-elevated-ketone.html

Other infos about too much proteins equals sugar (or not) :

"30g of protein?
There really is no literature to indicate this number as a 'holy grail' of protein absorption.
It may have arisen from looking at the rate of amino acid transporters, assuming 10g/hour as a standard, and applying that to the typical mini-meal approach to bodybuilder nutrition (with a meal every three hours)."

_http://examine.com/faq/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-sitting.html
and : _http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/
and : _http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html
 

Laura

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happyliza said:
Now that you have chosen 80g of carbs and 80g protein, you have already 640kcal of your daily requirements covered with these nutrients. What's left for you to choose is how much fat to eat.

80 grams of carbs is probably too much for ketosis; but it DOES depend on the individual. I try to keep mine below 30.

I'm a bit confused on this calculator thing suggesting that you reduce your fat to lose weight. You need to reduce CARBS to lose weight, and that includes the glucose that protein gets converted into when you eat more than your body requires.

In other words, calories really don't count when it comes to fat. You will be sated when you get enough and your body won't want anymore.

happyliza said:
I am sure I am having at least 200gms of fat/butter in cooking and mixed in the potato powder.

But the potato powder is carbs.
 

Gaby

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I don't want to lose nor gain weight, but restricting fat makes me constipated. I need fat otherwise I need more supplements and/or carbs for this particular issue. Protein without fat makes me constipated...
 

Angchop

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
I wanted to add that the videos are a big help. Part of the reason I veered away from keto before is because my significant other was scared of the way I was eating, and there really was no way to talk him out of it. Last night I was watching the first video in this thread, and he could hear it too. I think that it really piqued his interest. The part about the endurance athletes really made his ears perk up!

Perhaps he will want to give it a go once he sees the benefits from me doing it.
 

jsf

Jedi Master
Another article and interesting blog :

Wait — why eat only meat?
I want to briefly clarify our position about the 30-day trial. Although we hypothesise that there may be benefits to avoiding or minimising plants, it is definitely not necessary to avoid plants to gain the benefits of ketosis! None of the studies that form the basis of our beliefs about ketogenic diets had any such restriction. As we said in the explanation of the experiment, you can even formulate a vegan diet that is ketogenic.

The 30-day trial can be compared to the original Atkins (1972) induction phase [1] or the Eades' “meat weeks” in their book The 6-week cure for the Middle-Aged Middle. While both of those allow a small amount of certain vegetables, one basic idea is shared:

More carbohydrate restriction can be more effective, especially at the beginning, even if you ultimately find a comfortable long-term diet containing more carbohydrate.

http://www.empiri.ca/2014/01/wait-why-eat-only-meat.html

A carnivorous diet
For almost 3 years, I've been eating an essentially carnivorous diet. By "carnivorous", I don't mean omnivorous, non-vegetarian, or simply including meat. I mean that I eat essentially only meat. I say "essentially", because I regularly consume a few non-meat products, including coffee, tea and herbal tea, and coconut oil. Rarely, at my discretion, I might eat a dill pickle, or the fancy leaf served with my sashimi, perhaps a square of unsweetened chocolate -- but these events are far from the norm, perhaps once every month or two. I consider eggs carnivorous, but I'm ambivalent about dairy products. In particular, while milk has a favourable protein and fat profile, it also has a lot of carbohydrate. I'm sensitive to carbohydrates, and so aside from butter, and small amounts of cream and cheese, I avoid it. In any case, carnivorous is not meant to be defining or prescriptive, but descriptive.

(...)

_http://www.empiri.ca/2012/08/my-carnivorous-diet.html

Deeper ketosis without protein restriction
In my last update, I had talked about the trouble I was having staying at the β-hydroxybutyrate level I wanted while eating to satiety. Not only was eating to hunger driving my ketone levels down, but higher ketone levels were correlating with irritability. Hunger and irritability are not my style. Besides, I have the intuition that something as healthy as ketosis should not entail health compromises. That's one reason I think the calorie restricted approach to ketogenic dieting, even in cancer, is likely to be wrong. More on that another day.

I am delighted to report that for a couple of weeks now I have consistently been in the 1.5 — 3.5 mmol/L range without restricting the quantity of my food, or even trying to be careful about not passing the satiety mark. Though I do, as always, emphasize fat in my foods, I am not limiting or even measuring my protein intake. My body's signals are clear and accurate and I don't agonize over whether this bite would be the line between enough and too much. There is no longer any correlation, as far as I've noticed, between irritability and higher ketone readings.

_http://www.empiri.ca/2013/08/deeper-ketosis-without-protein.html

It seems pretty clear based on anecdote and on clinical claims that protein has to be below some threshold for ketogenesis to continue all else equal (except the effects of fat intake, calorie intake, amino acid profile, and type of fat also matter!). What I've tried to show in those posts on ketotic.org is that the mechanism for this doesn't seem to be that excess protein just gets automatically turned into glucose by GNG.

The studies I looked at made it seem unlikely that the mere presence of protein increases GNG. It also looks like the insulin-to-glucagon ratio, which many believe is a major GNG rate controller doesn't change on ingestion of protein.

One possibility for what is happening is that cells start taking up amino acids and that competes with glucose uptake. Then the rate of glucose going out of the blood slows down, which raises blood sugar if the rate of incoming glucose is the same. Then the higher blood sugar signals ketosis to slow down. This explanation does not require more glucose coming into the blood. But this is just a guess. It could be anything.

I tried to clarify this in the following post and in Protein, Gluconeogenesis, and Blood Sugar, and Protein, Ketogenesis, and Glucose Oxidation.

edit : last quote added
 
Thank you everyone for this post! It is quite timely for me and packed with great info! The Keto Calculator is a great tool that I will enjoy using to help me gauge my food intake. Thank you Laura for the great videos and recipes! I can't wait to try the Fat Milkshake! :)
 

Gaby

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Laura said:
I'm a bit confused on this calculator thing suggesting that you reduce your fat to lose weight. You need to reduce CARBS to lose weight, and that includes the glucose that protein gets converted into when you eat more than your body requires.

In other words, calories really don't count when it comes to fat. You will be sated when you get enough and your body won't want anymore.

I think this is best exemplified in Jimmy Moore's video quoted in one of these threads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9Fi_9tCeQ

He says that he cannot even eat lots of green leafy vegetables because that will mess up his blood ketone readings and he mostly eats fat, 12% protein and 3% carbs as sauerkraut or dark chocolate. He is so sensitive to carbs and excess protein, that his failure with the low carb diet was basically because of that: too much protein and not enough fat. He ended up putting quite a lot of weight. When he started eating big chunks of fat, he got better and better and things like intermittent fasting came natural for him. In that video, he was still losing weight after 6 months (I think) in the ketogenic diet.

Pretty amazing experience. He has done a whole lot of diagnostic tests which reflects his wellness feelings with a ketogenic formula: loads of fat, moderate restriction of protein and 20-30 grams or so of carbs per day. And he certainly proves his point :)

Although he does remind people that he had health problems before and someone without his background might tolerate more carbs. This is why there is insistence on getting a blood ketone reading gadget so you can monitor your ideal range.

Fascinating video! :)
 

Laura

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Gaby said:
Laura said:
I'm a bit confused on this calculator thing suggesting that you reduce your fat to lose weight. You need to reduce CARBS to lose weight, and that includes the glucose that protein gets converted into when you eat more than your body requires.

In other words, calories really don't count when it comes to fat. You will be sated when you get enough and your body won't want anymore.

I think this is best exemplified in Jimmy Moore's video quoted in one of these threads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN9Fi_9tCeQ

He says that he cannot even eat lots of green leafy vegetables because that will mess up his blood ketone readings and he mostly eats fat, 12% protein and 3% carbs as sauerkraut or dark chocolate. He is so sensitive to carbs and excess protein, that his failure with the low carb diet was basically because of that: too much protein and not enough fat. He ended up putting quite a lot of weight. When he started eating big chunks of fat, he got better and better and things like intermittent fasting came natural for him. In that video, he was still losing weight after 6 months (I think) in the ketogenic diet.

Pretty amazing experience. He has done a whole lot of diagnostic tests which reflects his wellness feelings with a ketogenic formula: loads of fat, moderate restriction of protein and 20-30 grams or so of carbs per day. And he certainly proves his point :)

Although he does remind people that he had health problems before and someone without his background might tolerate more carbs. This is why there is insistence on getting a blood ketone reading gadget so you can monitor your ideal range.

Fascinating video! :)

Close to my situation. I am VERY sensitive to carbs and like to keep them around 20/30 if not lower. And I think others are in the same boat which is why I was looking for something where I could load the fat in and not make myself sick.

I looked around the net and there are some evil keto diet products - milkshakes and so forth - made with aspartame etc, so that's what gave me the idea of the milkshake and then, why not go all the way, load the darn thing with fatty egg yolks and EXTRA fat and make a custard. That makes a LOT of fat go down very easy. One of those Fat Bombs a day and I'm done!

Today is my third day of fat bombing and I couldn't even eat all of my small piece of porkchop and spoonful of steamed carrots. I only had one small sausage and four pieces of bacon for breakfast and I was DONE. And I don't WANT anything else. So, yeah, I think that getting a LOT of fat is the key but finding a way for some people who just can't handle carbs to get it down takes some thinking.
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Laura said:
I'm a bit confused on this calculator thing suggesting that you reduce your fat to lose weight. You need to reduce CARBS to lose weight, and that includes the glucose that protein gets converted into when you eat more than your body requires.

In other words, calories really don't count when it comes to fat. You will be sated when you get enough and your body won't want anymore.
Is it because if there is lowered fat consumption the body will use fat stores? Protein is the least preferred energy system of the body because its the most complex molecule and hardest to metabalize so if there is a calorie deficit from not enough carbs, protein or fat in the diet the stored fat on the body would be used before muscles. So having low carb, low protein and high fat intake that's still under the daily required calorie intake for you means your body will use stored fat to fuel itself..
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Fluffy said:
Laura said:
I'm a bit confused on this calculator thing suggesting that you reduce your fat to lose weight. You need to reduce CARBS to lose weight, and that includes the glucose that protein gets converted into when you eat more than your body requires.

In other words, calories really don't count when it comes to fat. You will be sated when you get enough and your body won't want anymore.
Is it because if there is lowered fat consumption the body will use fat stores? Protein is the least preferred energy system of the body because its the most complex molecule and hardest to metabalize so if there is a calorie deficit from not enough carbs, protein or fat in the diet the stored fat on the body would be used before muscles. So having low carb, low protein and high fat intake that's still under the daily required calorie intake for you means your body will use stored fat to fuel itself..
I would assume that eating more fat than your body's daily calorie expenditure would be how someone would put on weight - according to the calculator
 

Gaby

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Fluffy said:
So having low carb, low protein and high fat intake that's still under the daily required calorie intake for you means your body will use stored fat to fuel itself..

It is really not low protein, but moderate restriction. Low protein will only result in muscle waste and malnutrition, so it is finding the balance that is right for each person with the help of the calculator/formulas and some experimentation.

Just a general reminder that if you are breastfeeding, you should NOT overly restrict protein intake. Same goes for pregnant women, children and teenagers. :)
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Gaby said:
Fluffy said:
So having low carb, low protein and high fat intake that's still under the daily required calorie intake for you means your body will use stored fat to fuel itself..

It is really not low protein, but moderate restriction. Low protein will only result in muscle waste and malnutrition, so it is finding the balance that is right for each person with the help of the calculator/formulas and some experimentation.

Just a general reminder that if you are breastfeeding, you should NOT overly restrict protein intake. Same goes for pregnant women, children and teenagers. :)

I did mean to write moderate protein, I've learned so much in the last few days from this site and other research and am doing a modified version of paleo and ketogenic diets, more veggies and more meat with a little less fat but still higher ratio of fat:protein:carbs... but I've been really low and struggling with my moods... I suppose my candida misses it's sugar :(
 

Arwenn

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Fluffy said:
I did mean to write moderate protein, I've learned so much in the last few days from this site and other research and am doing a modified version of paleo and ketogenic diets, more veggies and more meat with a little less fat but still higher ratio of fat:protein:carbs... but I've been really low and struggling with my moods... I suppose my candida misses it's sugar :(

Fluffy, have you read the Candida thread here? Going Paleo/Keto will cause a detox to some degree, and you don't want to cause a Herxheimer reaction, so definitely go slow; however as you progress with the diet consider taking some probiotics to re-colonize the gut with healthy bacteria as well as an anti-fungal of some kind to combat the candida (such as caprylic & lauric acid which is in coconut oil, oregano, black walnut powder etc). And definitely resist the urge to feed the critters what they want - sugar/fructose/glucose etc in all its forms. (I'm starting to distrust white powdered substances of all kinds, legal or not I think they're all bl**dy addictive :evil: )
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
Arwenn said:
Fluffy said:
I did mean to write moderate protein, I've learned so much in the last few days from this site and other research and am doing a modified version of paleo and ketogenic diets, more veggies and more meat with a little less fat but still higher ratio of fat:protein:carbs... but I've been really low and struggling with my moods... I suppose my candida misses it's sugar :(

Fluffy, have you read the Candida thread here? Going Paleo/Keto will cause a detox to some degree, and you don't want to cause a Herxheimer reaction, so definitely go slow; however as you progress with the diet consider taking some probiotics to re-colonize the gut with healthy bacteria as well as an anti-fungal of some kind to combat the candida (such as caprylic & lauric acid which is in coconut oil, oregano, black walnut powder etc). And definitely resist the urge to feed the critters what they want - sugar/fructose/glucose etc in all its forms. (I'm starting to distrust white powdered substances of all kinds, legal or not I think they're all bl**dy addictive :evil: )
Thanks Arwenn, I am doing all of the above that you suggest, coconut oil is my best friend right now, I eat it from the jar with a big spoon.
Interesting that you say you're beginning to distrust white powders of all kinds because I am too thinking that replacing sugar with something that has been heavily processed (xylitol, stevia, erythritol etc) is just moving from one evil to another.... I spent way too many hours when I should have been sleeping sitting up googling the topic of replacement sugars the other night.... Again, lots of conflicting info and opinions, but I feel like may be these things should be avoided or at least used sparingly. And I think my body's response to them is telltale, something just doesn't feel right when I consume it.... it's all just a bit off I think and my Nan's insulin still spikes when she eats sugar fee lollies, not sure if she's eating the whole bag- she could be :huh:
 
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