John Kaminski Goes Off the Deep End

[foofighter]

We need stand for Christopher Bollyn and wipe out the likes of wing tv who work sooooo hard to divide and sidetrack us...Anything to slow the truth movement seems to be their mission...If all these people are so bad according to wing, why not say what they have to say, then move on and allow them to phase out?

Why not get on with business in activism to really help right the wrongs in America?

All this infighting and dividing is very dangerous to America...Please stop it!

I know this is really obvious 'n all, but still, from the "How to Spot A Spy" booklet that Laura quoted on her blog:

This booklet lists tactics agents use to slow things down, foul things up, destroy the movement and keep tabs on activists.

It is the agent's job to keep the activist from quitting such a group, thus keeping him/her under control.

In some situations, to get control, the agent will tell the activist:

"You're dividing the movement."

This invites guilty feelings. Many people can be controlled by guilt. The agents begin relationships with activists behind a well-developed mask of "dedication to the cause." Because of their often declared dedication, (and actions designed to prove this), when they criticize the activist, he or she - being truly dedicated to the movement - becomes convinced that somehow, any issues are THEIR fault. This is because a truly dedicated person tends to believe that everyone has a conscience and that nobody would dissimulate and lie like that "on purpose." It's amazing how far agents can go in manipulating an activist because the activist will constantly make excuses for the agent who regularly declares their dedication to the cause. Even if they do, occasionally, suspect the agent, they will pull the wool over their own eyes by rationalizing: "they did that unconsciously... they didn't really mean it... I can help them by being forgiving and accepting " and so on and so forth.

What bugs me about this Marsha figure is not so much that she says what she says, but rather the thought that ANYONE in their right mind would buy into what she says. I mean, it is so obviously whacky.

But maybe it's just a matter of finding the right audience. Whoever you are, wherever you are, there's a disinformation program set up, just for you. Marsha just happens to be one of those who got the short straw when the spies were picked, and hence, a really tiny slice of the population to deal with. C'est la vie.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Marsha McClelland internet post to CIA-Drugs discussion group:
This includes the email she sent to RBN radio show host, Michael Collins Piper, in which she tries to poison Piper about me and Victor Thorn, and encourages others to also email him and tell him what "they" think about WING TV. She also cites her "new friend" Judy Andreas and defends Christopher Bollyn.

http://www(dot)mail-archive(dot)com/cia-drugs@yahoogroups(dot)com/msg05391(dot)html
CIA-Drugs discussion forum is a disinfo group.

Lisa
___________________________________________________________________________________________

----Original Message-----
>From: Marsha MCClelland
>Sent: Aug 31, 2006 1:50 PM
>To: cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: ***Christopher Bollyn attacks continued by wing tv***
>
>Hi Arlene...Would you mind dropping Michael Piper a note telling him how you
>feel about wing...And everyone be sure to hear The Piper report 8-31 as a guy
>named Solomon puts wing in their
>place>>>http://mp3.rbnlive(dot)com/Piper/0608/20060830_Wed_Piper.m3u
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> From: "Marsha MCClelland"
Subject: Re: ***Christopher Bollyn attacks continued by wing tv***
To: "Michael Collins Piper"

Marsha says:

> No...I believe you're one of the good guys, Michael...It's just your luck
> that wing tv dragged you into this...It'll be okay and work out...It always
> does...Everything happens for reasons, you know...Something good is bound to
> come out of all this
>
>
> I really tried not to believe Lias and Victor anything but
> heros...Really...I idolized her prior to learning who and what she really
> is...So did Judy Andreas who's a new friend of mine....Lisa was suppossed to
> be a friend of hers but cruelly betrayed her as the rule for almost everyone
> she chooses, trying to spread truth
>
> I could gather quite a list because when I do one of my provoked attacks of
> truth on wing, there's lots of feed back with those having their own stories
> of what wing did to them
>
> It's a long story but mine will convince you Lisa is a bad person and Victor
> is right behind her...I could never tell you in a brief manner all she did to
> me...Or tried to...I kicked her butt and her own people at her forum are
> witness...She banned me as soon as one of her own...A guy I wrote about, his
> name was actually Guy, too...A friend of hers who spoke up for me,
> questioning her...and boom...I'm banned
>
> Then it got serious in public forum
>
> A very long story but as soon as I can I'll hunt through our forum for the
> detailed emails to short cut having to write from recollection and boreing you
>
> I proved her the villian she tried to make me out to be
>
> Chin up Michael...This will pass soon...But please don't give up on
> Christopher...Try to see through his eyes....and forgive his being hard on you
>
> And for God's sake...Ditch the two losers because in your heart you know the
> truth...They are going down and you don't want to be in association with them
> when they do...Do you?
>
> Sincerely,
> Marsha
>
> I

 

[noise]

Marsha Wrote:

But I have to wonder if Mike Piper or someone else had asked, maybe he would have been inclined to respond...Maybe he just didn't feel he wanted to answer to Victor for personal reasons?
-------------------
Maybe Piper is more manipulatable? Maybe his personal reasons were not of any nature toward Victor and he just couldn't answer the question directly cause he had not yet invented a (self excusing) answer.

She really should have linked to the bolton discussion so that readers could have saw what she is defending? I just tried my hand at an article about all of this. I don't think it is good but I think it clears up where some of the people who are, in my perspective, negatively defending the truth movement, beating around direct questions and simply not understanding you Lisa or anyone else who has tried to get through to the people now bashing you.

Maybe I'll end up hacked off the internet by those people ?too?.
Divide and Conquer; More Views on the Truth Movement http://www.dickeatsbush.com/diviconq.htm

 

[Lisa Guliani]

It's not a pleasant experience for anyone who becomes linked to me on the internet in these circles...LOL.

Or anyone who speaks out on my behalf.

I won't lie to you. It's not fun.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Email from Michael Langston, who accompanied me and Victor Thorn to Ground Zero on 9-11-2006
He's talking about Judy Andreas.

To: "Lisa Guliani"
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:07:30 -0500
From: "Michael Langston"

Yeah, she approached us. That I recall. But I don't think it was even
for "just a few minutes." I think it was all over in less than one
minute. It was very brief and uneventful. You took her picture, and we
parted company with her almost immediately. That's about all I can remember
about it.

Michael

 

[anart]

All this infighting and dividing is very dangerous to America...Please stop it!

LOLOLOLOLOL - ahhhhh, sorry, but I expected a "Please think of the children!!" next.

Sheesh.

 

[Michael Langston]

Email from Michael Langston, who accompanied me and Victor Thorn to Ground Zero on 9-11-2006
He's talking about Judy Andreas.

To: "Lisa Guliani"
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:07:30 -0500
From: "Michael Langston"

Yeah, she approached us. That I recall. But I don't think it was even
for "just a few minutes." I think it was all over in less than one
minute. It was very brief and uneventful. You took her picture, and we
parted company with her almost immediately. That's about all I can remember
about it.

Michael

There's not much I can add to what I've already told Lisa in my email regarding my recollection of this event at Ground Zero. That's the truth of what really happened there, in case anyone would like to know.

 

[the rabbit]

Theres nothing wrong with a truth movement,only its time for a bit of sifting of the lumpy flour.Good lord i really wouldnt want to be depending on Judea,mothballs,jones,Bollyn and the like to save the day. thats for sure.

The folks who may come this way as a result of their circulating of emails of their nonesense hopefully will ,stay,and contribute information.

 

[kenlee]

Theres nothing wrong with a truth movement,only its time for a bit of sifting of the lumpy flour.Good lord i really wouldnt want to be depending on Judea,mothballs,jones,Bollyn and the like to save the day. thats for sure.

Indeed. Gurdjieff speaks of 'essence' and 'personality' and it is clear that the vast majority of the people in today's truth movement are all personality. All form with no content. They are excellent representatives of the monstrosities produced by our educational systems.

Below I excerpted (some of the emphasis is mine) from chapter 8 of Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' where Ouspensky quotes Gurdjieff who differentiates between a persons essence (what is real in them) and their personality (what they have acquired):

Excerpt from P.D. Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' Chap. 8


"It must be understood that man consists of two parts: essence and personality. Essence in man is what is his own. Personality in man is what is 'not his own.' 'Not his own' means what has come from outside, what he has learned, or reflects, all traces of exterior impressions left in the memory and in the sensations, all words and movements that have been learned, all feelings created by imitation-all this is 'not his own,' all this is personality.

"From the point of view of ordinary psychology the division of man into personality and essence is hardly comprehensible. It is more exact to say that such a division does not exist in psychology at all. "A small child has no personality as yet. He is what he really is. He is essence. His desires, tastes, likes, dislikes, express his being such as it is. "But as soon as so-called 'education' begins personality begins to grow. Personality is created partly by the intentional influences of other people, that is, by 'education,' and partly by involuntary imitation of them by the child itself. In the creation of personality a great part is also played by 'resistance' to people around him and by attempts to conceal from them something that is 'his own' or 'real.'

"Essence is the truth in man; personality is the false. But in proportion as personality grows, essence manifests itself more and more rarely and more and more feebly and it very often happens that essence stops in its growth at a very early age and grows no further. It happens very often that the essence of a grown-up man, even that of a very intellectual and, in the accepted meaning of the word, highly 'educated' man, stops on the level of a child of five or six. This means that everything we see in this man is in reality 'not his own.' What is his own in man, that is, his essence, is usually only manifested in his instincts and in his simplest emotions. There are cases, however, when a man's essence grows in parallel with his personality. Such cases represent very rare exceptions especially in the circumstances of cultured life. Essence has more chances of development in men who live nearer to nature in difficult conditions of constant struggle and danger.

"But as a rule the personality of such people is very little developed. They have more of what is their own, but very little of what is 'not their own,' that is to say, they lack education and instruction, they lack culture. Culture creates personality and is at the same time the product and the result of personality. We do not realize that the whole of our life, all we call civilization, all we call science, philosophy, art, and politics, is created by people's personality, that is, by what is 'not their own' in them.

"The element that is 'not his own' differs from what is man's 'own' by the fact that it can be lost, altered, or taken away by artificial means.

"There exists a possibility of experimental verification of the relation of personality to essence. In Eastern schools ways and means are known by the help of which it is possible to separate man's personality from his essence. For this purpose they sometimes use hypnosis, sometimes special narcotics, sometimes certain kinds of exercises. If personality and essence are for a time separated in a man by one or another of these means, two beings, as it were, are formed in him, who speak in different voices, have completely different tastes, aims, and interests, and one of these two beings often proves to be on the level of a small child. Continuing the experiment further it is possible to put one of these beings to sleep, or the experiment may begin by putting to sleep either personality or essence. Certain narcotics have the property of putting personality to sleep without affecting essence. And for a certain time after taking this narcotic a man's personality disappears, as it were, and only his essence remains. And it happens that a man full of the most varied and exalted ideas, full of sympathies and antipathies, love, hatred, attachments, patriotism, habits, tastes, desires, convictions, suddenly proves quite empty, without thoughts, without feelings, without convictions, without views. Everything that has agitated him before now leaves him completely indifferent. Sometimes he sees the artificiality and the imaginary character of his usual moods or his high-sounding words, sometimes he simply forgets them asthough they had never existed. Things for which he was ready to sacrifice his life now appear to him ridiculous and meaningless and unworthy of his attention. All that he can find in himself is a small number of instinctive inclinations and tastes. He is fond of sweets, he likes warmth, he dislikes cold, he dislikes the thought of work, or on the contrary he likes the idea of physical movement. And that is all.

"Sometimes, though very seldom, and sometimes when it is least expected, essence proves fully grown and fully developed in a man, even in cases of undeveloped personality, and in this case essence unites together everything that is serious and real in a man.

"But this happens very seldom. As a rule a man's essence is either primitive, savage, and childish, or else simply stupid. The development of essence depends on work on oneself.

"A very important moment in the work on oneself is when a man begins to distinguish between his personality and his essence. A man's real I, his individuality, can grow only from his essence. It can be said that a man's individuality is his essence, grown up, mature. But in order to enable essence to grow up, it is first of all necessary to weaken the constant pressure of personality upon it, because the obstacles to the growth of essence are contained in personality.

'If we take an average cultured man, we shall see that in the vast majority of cases his personality is the active element in him while his essence is the passive element. The inner growth of a man cannot begin so long as this order of things remains unchanged. Personality must become passive and essence must become active. This can happen only if 'buffers' are removed or weakened, because 'buffers' are the chief weapon by the help of which personality holds essence in subjection.

As has been said earlier, in the case of less cultured people essence is often more highly developed than it is in cultured man. It would seem that they ought to be nearer the possibility of growth, but in reality it is not so because their personality proves to be insufficiently developed. For inner growth, for work on oneself, a certain development of personality as well as a certain strength of essence are necessary. Personality consists of 'rolls,' and of 'buffers' resulting from a certain work of the centers. An insufficiently developed personality means a lack of 'rolls,' that is, a lack of knowledge, a lack of information, a lack of the material upon which work on oneself must be based. Without some store of knowledge, without a certain amount of material 'not his own,' a man cannot begin to work on himself, he cannot begin to study himself, he cannot begin to struggle with his mechanical habits, simply because there will be no reason or motive for undertaking such work.

"It does not mean that all the ways are closed to him. The way of the fakir and the way of the monk, which do not require any intellectual development, remain open to him. But the methods and the means which are possible for a man of a developed intellect are impossible for him. Thus evolution is equally difficult for a cultured or an uncultured man. A cultured man lives far from nature, far from natural conditions of existence, in artificial conditions of life, developing his personality at the expense of his essence. A less cultured man, living in more normal and more natural conditions, develops his essence at the expense of his personality. A successful beginning of work on oneself requires the happy occurrence of an equal development of personality and essence. Such an occurrence will give the greatest assurance of success. If essence is very-little developed, a long preparatory period of work is required and this work will be quite fruitless if a man's essence is rotten inside or if it develops some irreparable defects. Conditions of this kind occur fairly often. An abnormal development of personality very often arrests the development of essence at such an early stage that the essence becomes a small deformed thing. From a small deformed thing nothing else can be got.

"Moreover, it happens fairly often that essence dies in a man while his personality and his body are still alive. A considerable percentage of the people we meet in the streets of a great town are people who are empty inside, that is, they are actually already dead.

"It is fortunate for us that we do not see and do not know it. If we knew what a number of people are actually dead and what a number of these dead people govern our lives, we should go mad with horror. And indeed people often do go mad because they End out something of this nature without the proper preparation, that is, they see something they are not supposed to see. In order to see without danger one must be on the way. If a man who can do nothing sees the truth he will certainly go mad. Only this rarely happens. Usually everything is so arranged that a man can see nothing prematurely. Personality sees only what it likes to see and what does not interfere with its life. It never sees what it does not like. This is both good and bad at the same time. It is good if a man wants to sleep, bad if he wants to awaken."

"If essence is subject to the influence of fate, does it mean that compared with accident fate is always favorable to a man?" asked somebody present. "And can fate bring a man to the work?" "No, it does not mean this at all," G. answered him. "Fate is better than accident only in the sense that it is possible to take it into account, it is possible to know it beforehand; it is possible to prepare for what is ahead. In regard to accident one can know nothing. But fate can be also unpleasant or difficult. In this event, however, there are means for isolating oneself from one's fate. The first step towards this consists in getting away from general laws. Just as there is individual accident, so is there general or collective accident. And in the same way as there is individual fate, there is a general or collective fate. Collective accident and collective fate are governed by general laws. If a man wishes to create individuality of his own he must first free himself from general laws. General laws are by no means all obligatory for man; he can free himself from many of them if he frees himself from 'buffers' and from imagination. All this is connected with liberation from personality. Personality feeds on imagination and falsehood. If the falsehood in which man lives is decreased and imagination is decreased, personality very soon weakens and a man begins to be controlled either by fate or by a line of work which is in its turn controlled by another man's will; this will lead him until a will of his own has been formed, capable of withstanding both accident and, when necessary, fate."

The talks given embrace a period of a few months. It stands to reason that it is not possible to re-establish the talks in their exact order because very often G. touched upon twenty different subjects in an evening. Much was repeated, much depended upon the questions asked by those present, many ideas were so closely connected that they could 'only be separated artificially. At this time certain definite types of people had already begun to show a negative attitude towards our work. Besides the absence of "love" many people were very indignant at the demand for payment, for money. In this connection it was very characteristic that those who were indignant were not those who could pay only with difficulty, but people of means for whom the sum demanded was a mere trifle. Those who could not pay or who could pay very little always understood that they could not count upon getting something for nothing, and that G.'s work, his journeys to Petersburg, and the time that he and others gave to the work cost money. Only those who had money did not understand and did not want to understand this. "Does this mean that we must pay to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?" they said. "People do not pay nor is money asked for such things. Christ said to his disciples: 'Take neither purse nor scrip,' and you want a thousand roubles. A very good business could be made of it. Suppose that you had a hundred members. This would already make a hundred thousand, and if there were two hundred, three hundred? Three hundred thousand a year is very good money."

G. always smiled when I told him about talks like this.

"Take neither purse nor scrip! And need not a railway ticket be taken either? The hotel paid? You see how much falsehood and hypocrisy there is here. No, even if we needed no money at all it would still be necessary to keep this payment. It rids us at once of many useless people. Nothing shows up people so much as their attitude towards money. They are ready to waste as much as you like on their own personal fantasies but they have no valuation whatever of another person's labor. I must work for them and give them gratis everything that they vouchsafe to take from me. 'How is it possible to trade in knowledge? This ought to be free.' It is precisely for this reason that the demand for this payment is necessary. Some people will never pass this barrier. And if they do not pass this one, it means that they will never pass another. Besides, there are other considerations. Afterwards you will see." The other considerations were very simple ones. Many people indeed could not pay. And although in principle G. put the question very strictly, in practice he never refused anybody on the grounds that they had no money. And it was found out later that he even supported many of his pupils. The people who paid a thousand roubles paid not only for themselves but for others.

[...]When G. next came to St. Petersburg (he had been in Moscow this time for two or three weeks) we told him of our attempts; he listened to everything and merely said that we did not know how to separate "personality" from "essence." "Personality hides behind essence," he said, "and essence hides behind personality and they mutually screen each other." "How can essence be separated from personality?" asked one of those present. "How would you separate your own from what is not your own?" G. replied. "It is necessary to think, it is necessary to know where one or another of your characteristics has come from. And it is necessary to realize that most people, especially in your circle of society, have very little of their own. Everything they have is not their own and is mostly stolen; everything that they call ideas, convictions, views, conceptions of the world, has all been pilfered from various sources. And all of it together makes up personality and must be cast aside." "But you yourself said that work begins with personality," said someone there. "Quite true," replied G. "Therefore we must first of all establish of what precisely we are speaking-of what moment in a man's development and of what level of being. Just now I was simply speaking of a man in life who had no connection whatever with the work. Such a man, particularly if he belongs to the 'intellectual' classes, is almost entirely composed of personality. In most cases his essence ceases to develop at a very early age. I know respected fathers of families, professors full of various ideas, wellknown authors, important officials who were almost ministers, whose essence had stopped developing approximately at the age of twelve. And that is not so bad. It sometimes happens that certain aspects of essence stop at five or six years of age and then everything ends; all the rest is not their own; it is repertoire, or taken from books; or it has been created by imitating ready-made models."

Ouspensky talks about an experiment that was performed by Gurdjieff where the essence and personality were separated in two individuals. The means by which this was accomplished was not mentioned by Ouspensky. Possibly hypnotism or some other means was used to facilitate this seperation. One was an older "learned" man who was very "serious" and prominent in society and the other was a more ordinary man who had something real inside him. Basically, the personality of the two men was put to sleep and all that remained were their "essence manifestations."

The first man, the older one, with all his loud "opinions" and paramoralisms showed that he was all personality, all talk, and when his personality was put to sleep all that was left of him was a "shriveled up essence" composed of nothing more then simple primitive instinctual drives and impulses, whose inner content comprised nothing more then a bundle of conditioned neural reflexes, seeking nothing more then food and comfort, and all that really mattered to him, all that he was really serious about, was "raspberry jam". This state of being very well represents those who are in todays so called "truth movement. Such individuals have "no truth" and any talk of a "truth movement" is really talk of a "no truth movement." Ultimately such people care for nothing, believe in nothing apart from the satisfaction of their basic instinctual drives and impulses directing them towards "peace and comfort." Everything in them is just empty talk, pouring from "the empty into the void," with nothing essential within them that can be called real in any way and they will be the first to sell out when times get difficult so as to save their own precious butts.

Then there is the younger man who showed that there was something real inside him after his personality was put to sleep.

The experiment is described as follows in chapter 12 of In Search Of The Miraculous by P.D. Ouspensky [emphasis is mine] :

Excerpt from P.D. Ouspensky's book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' Chap. 12

[...]Conversations in groups continued as usual. Once G. said that he wanted to carry out an experiment on the separation of personality from essence. We were all very interested because he had promised "experiments" for a long time but till then we had seen nothing. I will not describe his methods, I will merely describe the people whom he chose that first evening for the experiment. One was no longer young and was a man who occupied a fairly prominent position in society. At our meetings he spoke much and often about himself, his family, about Christianity, and about the events of the moment connected with the war and with all possible kinds of "scandal" that had very much disgusted him. The other was younger. Many of us did not consider him to be a serious person. Very often he played what is called the fool; or, on the other hand, entered into endless formal arguments about some or other details of the system without any relation whatever to the whole. It was very difficult to understand him. He spoke in a confused and intricate manner even of the most simple things, mixing up in a most impossible way different points of view and words belonging to different categories and levels.

I pass over the beginning of the experiment.
We were sitting in the big drawing room.
The conversation went on as usual.
"Now observe," G. whispered to us.
The older of the two who was speaking heatedly about something suddenly became silent in the middle of a sentence and seemed to sink into his chair looking straight in front of him. At a sign from G. we continued to talk without looking at him. The younger one began to listen to the talk and then spoke himself. All of us looked at one another. His voice had become different. He told us some observations about himself in a clear, simple, and intelligible manner without superfluous words, without extravagances, and without buffoonery. Then he became silent; he smoked a cigarette and was obviously thinking of something.
The first one sat still without moving, as though shrunken into a ball.
"Ask him what he is thinking about," said G. quietly.
"I?" He lifted his head as though waking up when he was questioned. "About nothing." He smiled weakly as though apologizing or as though he were surprised at anyone asking him what he was thinking about.
"Well, you were talking about the war just now," said one of us, "about what would happen if we made peace with the Germans; do you still think as you did then?"
"I don't know really," he said in an uncertain voice. "Did I say that?"
"Yes, certainly, you just said that everyone was obliged to think about it, that no one had the right not to think about it, and that no one had the right to forget the war; everyone ought to have a definite opinion; yes or no-for or against the war."
He listened as though he did not grasp what the questioner was saying.
"Yes?" he said. "How odd. I do not remember anything about it."
"But aren't you interested in it?"
"No, it does not interest me at all."
"Are you not thinking of the consequences of all that is now taking place, of the results for Russia, for the whole of civilization?"
He shook his head as though with regret.
"I do not understand what you are talking about," he said, "it does not interest me at all and I know nothing about it."
"Well then, you spoke before of your family. Would it not be very much easier for you if they became interested in our ideas and joined the work?" "Yes, perhaps," again in an uncertain voice. "But why should I think about it?"
"Well, you said you were afraid of the gulf, as you expressed it, which was growing between you and them."
No reply.
"But what do you think about it now?"
"I am not thinking about it at all."
"If you were asked what you would like, what would you say?"
Again a wondering glance-"I do not want anything." "But think, what would you like?"
On the small table beside him there stood an unfinished glass of tea. He gazed at it for a long time as though considering something. He glanced around him twice, then again looked at the glass, and said in such a serious voice and with such serious intonations that we all looked at one another:

"I think I should like some raspberry jam."

"Why are you questioning him?" said a voice from the corner which we hardly recognized.
This was the second "experiment."
"Can you not see that he is asleep?"
"And you yourself?" asked one of us.
"I, on the contrary, have woken up."
"Why has he gone to sleep while you have woken up?"
"I do not know."

With this the experiment ended. Neither of them remembered anything the next day. G. explained to us that with the first man everything that constituted the subject of his ordinary conversation, of his alarms and agitation, was in personality. And when his personality was asleep practically nothing remained. In the personality of the other there was also a great deal of undue talkativeness but behind the personality there was an essence which knew as much as the personality and knew it better, and when personality went to sleep essence took its place to which it had a much greater right. "Note that contrary to his custom he spoke very little," said G. "But he was observing all of you and everything that was taking place, and nothing escaped him." "But of what use is it to him if he also does not remember?" said one of us. "Essence remembers," said G., "personality has forgotten. And this was necessary because otherwise personality would have perverted everything and would have ascribed all this to itself."
"But this is a kind of black magic," said one of us. "Worse," said G. "Wait and you will see worse than that"

 

[Laura]

I'm not sending this to all groups to give wing publicity as new comers might buy into their propaganda...but I'm sending it to those of you who know wing's track record for what it is, in hopes of great rebuttal on behalf of Christopher

We need stand for Christopher Bollyn and wipe out the likes of wing tv who work sooooo hard to divide and sidetrack us...Anything to slow the truth movement seems to be their mission...If all these people are so bad according to wing, why not say what they have to say, then move on and allow them to phase out?

Why not get on with business in activism to really help right the wrongs in America?

All this infighting and dividing is very dangerous to America...Please stop it!

Now, let me understand this: supposedly, according to Judy Andreas and Marsha McClelland, the reason WingTV is mad at everybody is because Rense and others would not "unite" in a cohesive movement that sought to formulate a consistent approach and strategy, etc.

So, because WingTV (Lisa and Victor) noticed that there was no desire to create a united and strategic front, but there was, instead, a lot of covert manipulation and vectoring of thinking, and they dared to point this out, Marsha McClelland and Judy Andreas are screaming bloody murder that pointing out the things that were dividing the movement are "dividing the movement."

In other words, people are supposed to Unite under the likes of Rense, Andreas and McClelland - but definitely not unite with anybody who just wants to get to the bottom line and sort the lies from the truth.

Another strange contradiction is when Marsha says above: "If all these people are so bad according to wing, why not say what they have to say, then move on and allow them to phase out?" which she then directly contradicts herself by saying that they want to "wipe out the likes of wing tv".

What I find MOST telling, however, is when Marsha sez: "I'm not sending this to all groups to give wing publicity as new comers might buy into their propaganda..." She knows that her position is transparent to anyone with healthy common sense.

She wants a "great rebuttal" on behalf of Christopher Bollyn... never mind that Bollyn sunk to the lowest of the low, filthy tactics in attacking Lisa and her family; sheesh! It wasn't even decent enough to call it yellow journalism! So, that tells us a lot about Marsha and Judy.

Allow me to paraphrase something I wrote about the Rob Revere gang when they were on the attack:

"I think we can tell from this article that the REAL "movers and shakers" behind Christopher Bollyn, Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, Jim Condit, Marsha McClelland and Judy Andreas - all bottom feeders - are the very psychopathic totalitarianism that underlies this type of behavior: in short: By their fruits you shall know them. They can protest all they want that they are part of the "alternative media" or "911 Truth seekers," but if they act like the very people they claim they are targeting, I think we can figure out that they are just the "manufactured opposition."

Conscious or not, they are all COINTELPRO.

 

[Keit]

Now I understand why most of the people roll their eyes when they hear a word "conspiracy". Actually, if I wouldn't be familiar with SOTT, Cass, Laura's material, I also would roll my eyes, because those people are clear nut cases (or at least clearly have some deep psychological problems). And in my opinion, this can be a true agenda of COINTELPRO.
Conscious or not conscious, Judy and Marsha do everything they can in order to associate themselves with Lisa. And we all familiar with a perfect excuse of guilty by association: "They are obvious nut cases. She is their friend, therefore she is not worthy of listening to". I am sure that there is a plan created by best psychological pathocracy minds. And this plan will be implemented if the things will become too hot for them. Already most of the people have this image of "crazy conspiracy theorists" with unstable, hysterical behavior. Psychopaths only need to use the power of science to make it a fact, and they will have lot of examples from "peace movement". So people like Judy and Marsha willingly dig graves for themselves with a helpful advises from people like Rense. They refuse to use their head, and eventually wil lose it (figuratively speaking) like in case of Kaminski. Or maybe it's all part of the aforementioned plan.

 

[Nienna]

Oh, Lisa, please stop it already with the e-mails from Marsha. I can't stand it anymore. What a work she is, too.

I'm not sending this to all groups to give wing publicity as new comers might buy into their propaganda...but I'm sending it to those of you who know wing's track record for what it is, in hopes of great rebuttal on behalf of Christopher

In other words: I'm not sending this to anyone who might be able to see that Lisa is speaking the truth. I'm just going to send it to all of you who are already under the control of Cointelpro and already believe everything I tell you.

We need stand for Christopher Bollyn and wipe out the likes of wing tv who work sooooo hard to divide and sidetrack us...Anything to slow the truth movement seems to be their mission...

In other words: Let's stop Wing TV who work so hard to divide and sidetrack "US" in the Cointelpro movement and who is actually putting the real truth out there for all to see.

I must tell you how disappointed I was that you had Lisa Guliani and Victor Thorn from Wing TV on your show...I'm sure you're not aware of the trouble, division and discontent this "used to be dynamic duo" are causing

In other words: I must tell you how disappointed I was that you had Lisa Guliani and Victor Thorn from Wing TV on your show....I'm sure you're not aware of the trouble, division and discontent this dynamic duo is causing to "US" in Cointelpro with all of their truths they are getting out to the public.

Alex Merklinger from>>>http://mysteriesofthemind.com/ is brought up in this character assassination wing did on me...He is one of three owners, of "We The People United", I chose to represent us at Lisa's rejection...Although a silent partner, he is with "US"

Alex Merklinger.......is one of three owners, of "We The People United", I chose to represent us at Lisa's rejection, Although a silent partner he is with "US". But don't ask him 'cause he is a Silent Partner, but you can ask me, I'll tell you, go ahead, just aske me.

I can tell you he is very much a good friend of mine and their many lies and twists involving him could easily be proven

But I don't have time for that as people are perceptive anyway and they're not worth the time it would take to call them on these particular lies and spin, anyway

In other words: Sure I could easily prove their lies concerning our relationship with Alex Merklinger.....ah sure I can.....ah listen I just don't have the time for this. Those people we have already deceived can surely see how easy it is to prove this.....and it's not really worth the time to prove this......ah, really, it's not worth it.

I don't like going here in having to expose the mean wing team but it is an urgent matter...We cannot allow this to continue dividing the movement...Time is running out and we must all unite

Whether enemy agents or ignorant, I guess there's always hope they will wake and change direction

In other words: We cannot let the Wing TV team keep showing people the truth because it is really making a mess of our Cointelpro program. If we just continue to harrass the Wing TV team, maybe they will finally desist and go back to sleep.

This is, of course, how I interpret what is being said by Marsha.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Forgive me, Lynne. This is too good to ignore...LOL.
I think this person is totally OFF HER NUT.
OFF--HER--FLAMIN'--NUT.

Uber-Patriot Marsha "Mofmars" Mcclelland has a few (hundred) things to say to everyone.
She really doesn't want to do this, she claims, but uhh, she simply "must" - as you will soon see.
Marsha says that I, Lisa Guliani, am a "danger to America". And all by my lonesome, too.
Marsha has a special warning in here for you too, Laura, so you'll need to suffer, er, excuse me - READ - through the whole thing to find that nifty little prize at the bottom of the box.
I don't even know what to call this.
The word INSANE comes to mind.


Lisa

http://tech(dot)groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/message/44623
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:10 pm
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Title of Marsha's Post: EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT wing tv BITES THE DUST

This is from a thread at Signs Of The Times>>>

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/

Please join them to help truth out...Lisa Guliani from Wing TV is there in her
glory spreading lies, as is usual for her...

Those who know me know this is not a normal thing for me to come out against
anyone in this capacity as I have done in the case of Wingtv.net

But considering the times and danger we are all up against, it's urgent we
know who's who and up to what

I have now come out several times on behalf of our people when wing tv does a
hatchet job on one of our good guys and patriots

I did not come out in my own defense on a large scale in cyberspace other than
sharing with a handful of groups, when the hatchet job was done on me last
June...but it's time I'd like to tell you about it...I do hate giving wing
publicity because they believe bad PR is still good and they're kind of right,
in a way...I learned that from them on one of their shows

This will be long and may not be for everyone...So just delete, if it's not up
your ally

I'd like to say that due to hackers, at the moment, I can't even read my email
if they even let any of it through so if I owe anyone a reply, that's why...I
haven't gotten any for days, actually, and was so backed up in my email before
hand, anyway...

I wonder if I'll be able to get this though to the groups...Almost everything
I do triggers the attacks...I can usually get around them but it's getting
harder for me to do so

I have had the hackers traced and we know who they are

Marsha,
(((V))) For Victory & Peace

When you get to Sign Of The Times, after you register, click on forum and go
to general discussion a ways down on the page...It's the John Kaminski topic
where the character assassinations are happening
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lisa is a big liar and victor is right behind her, catching up...Many believe
the used to be dynamic duo (victor thorn & lisa guliani from wingtv.net) to be
agents of the worst kind...but I think the problem is just ignorance and their
huge egos

I hope someday they come to their senses and instead of working so hard to
divide our people they can start helping bring them together, as should be

United, we can stand and divided we will fall...So whose side are these two
angry attack dogs really on, anyway?...Continually causing division, disruption
and unfair distain?

In the beginning of wing's existence, I used to look up to lisa in admiration
and thought she was a true hero and patriot...I even used to help promote wing
tv to the masses to help build their audience

I'm Marsha McClelland lisa referred to and lied about in this thread
earlier...I've been here a while waiting to feel the moment right to jump in but
haven't looked in since Christopher Bollyn left

I was sorry to see that time come and that my first post was deleted due to,
you said, my not following the rules of flaming...That was not true because I
did nothing that you guys weren't doing to Judy Andeas as a group against just
her...What I said was not flaming or profanity as the rules state...It was truth
that came from my heart...My heart you guys angered and I was only using your
own medicine on you

About Christopher Bollyn...I, as well as the general consensus of those
throughout cyberspace, who know the facts, are with Chris Boylln and see right
through the wing deception and snow job they did on him

I believe lisa, somehow, may have sucked Laura in, to get her onboard for
reason other than something good...

I do apologize right now to you Laura for thinking the worst of you mainly due
to your association with lisa and that one show you did on wing...I just was so
upset when I heard you join with lisa and talk ill about Chris...I should have
known better to jump so hastily to judgment on you as I did so quickly because
maybe you were deceived, too
This is the well deserved hit piece on lisa concerning Chris Bollyn where you
were involved and was sent to just a handful of
groups>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mysteriesofthemind/message/677

The patriots...The real ones, will determine whether you're made of the same
ilk as lisa the fake patriot or not and in a fair way, too...Again, in the
meantime, I am sorry if I misjudged you

I do know this much so far from what I see that Laura teaches and that's that
psychopaths are very good at lying...I have already proven lisa a liar in the
past with facts and can do it every time because I'm the one telling the truth

lisa stated here and on her show that Judy Andreas and I were friends and in a
forum gossiping about her...Never happened...I never even knew of Judy
Andreas...I had never been in contact with Judy, at least I didn't think I had
but I learned different, thanks to lisa, herself

lisa did a show on me last June 15 or 16, I forget...It was titled "Useful
Idiots"

If you listen to that show, if wing's archives aren't conveniently taken down,
you'll see she told this same lie but used chat room instead of forum when she
said Judy and I were friends and talking about her...Oh...By the way, lisa...We
all hear you say how you save everything?...I'm sure you must have saved or can
find where and in what forum this transpired...Right?...Hmmmm...Guess not,
because you know you're lying again

After Judy and I did meet, thanks to lisa, we finally figured out where she
was coming from with this particular lie...When Judy told me about a hateful
email lisa sent her and that she'd called Judy, Isis, in it, all clicked
together...Everyone there picked out cute screen names but most didn't hide
their true identifies from one another

It was discovered that Judy and I really were in a chat room at the same time
for a short period, a couple years ago...I thought lisa was just lying again
when she said on her show that Judy and I were together in one because I had
never gone into one...EVER...But I forgot that when I was listening to my
favorite radio broadcast>>>Alex Merklinger from Mysteriesofthemind.com, I did
sign into his chatroom during many of the daily three hour broadcasts...Mostly
to watch what others were thinking relating to the topic, rarely speaking about
anything except privately to Alex outside the room by email

I don't gossip in any of the many forums I network with as lisa says,
either...That's not the way I operate, at all...If I speak negative about
anyone, they are a handful and well deserving...And it's for good reason, in
their face and up front, not behind anyone's back as lisa accuses me

A few have come out against me of late in the forums but they're the known
disrupters and suspect agents...It's getting bad for the administration so their
cronies, flunkies, patsies and moles have stepped up their activities against
the activists and real patriots...They seem to be coming out of the woodwork
like a bunch of cock roaches...Those who've been around for a while can see this
very clearly as they scatter to attack the good guys in all our productive and
prestigious groups

About my not realizing I really was in a chat room...I didn't consider Alex's
room, one of those chat rooms where people go to meet and talk to others because
being an activist leaves me no time to do such things even if I wanted too

I'd rather be hounding the media and elected officials, while encouraging the
masses to do the same while supplying contact lists...lisa objects to my action
alerts and has for years but if you pay attention you'll see that with all of us
writing letters, signing petitions and action alerts and speaking out as we have
been...It is working...I'll enclose proof in this communication as to how you
can prove this to yourself a little later...Especially for the guy who
questioned this forum about writing letters and such to help in these dire times
we live

Out of an estimated quarter million in just my personal groups, not including
my lists, before pyramiding out by other activists to the masses, most all the
group owners I have dealt with all these years in order to gather these
numbers>>>Most have allowed, understand the need and appreciate the action
alerts, press releases and such, I send...lisa's among a tiny handful that can't
or refuses

to see logic behind that, for whatever reason she holds...It does appear she
wants to stop any progress We The People might make...She seems to go
to great lengths, in fact

Back to Judy whom I find a sincere, caring and an intelligent person...and I
do hope those who realize what you've done, can be big and apologize to her...

Even if she was a bad person what you've done was not right, the way you did
it...Most people would try to help instead of trying to destroy a person
completely...Some people are more easily destroyed too, so be careful,
please...It's not worth the hurt that can be caused, possibly permanently, just
so others can have fun at another's expense

Back to lisa's lie...Judy left very shortly after I came into that Mysteries
Of The Mind chat room for her own personal reasons and I never did know her at
all or talk to her about anything

We figured for lisa to know we were in that same chat room she had to be there
too...Ha ha ha...Under another name not making her real self known...Why?...Was
she lurking and spying on Alex?...That's the only explanation...Sneaky
lisa...What a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive, huh
lisa...lol...

On that show "Useful Idiots" they did on me she lies about me and my
association to Alex Merklinger...This among the many other lies that can be
easily proven, too...She said I tried to leach on to her and Alex...If you paid
attention, lisa says this same thing about many people she tries to discredit on
her shows and I think I read that in this forum too?

They make fun of me doggedly and in a very degrading way as you'll hear...She
even insinuates I may not be female but I assure you I am...I'm also much better
looking than her and I don't have that evil eye, either

I'll tell you about the promotion lisa went great length to discredit me with
in a minute but first I'll tell you about the Mysteriesofthemind
group>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mysteriesofthemind/

You can look at many of my posts there and see the nature of them, opposed to
what lisa claims, so you can make up your own mind as to what I'm about...My
picture is there as is Judy Andreas's, too...

I think lisa doctored that picture of her she sent here to hurt Judy but maybe
just sticking the camera so rudely in her face as she did was enough to make it
come out like that?...She had told me she was worried about what lisa might do
with that picture and she sure was right...She is human you know and that would
bother most people
I'm much older than that picture of me but it's the only one I have...I felt
silly posting my own picture but did it anyway

About that promotion/campainge I did for Alex Merklinger...I sent it to 500
plus political, spiritual and patriot groups...Actually there were many
promotions done for Alex, as I do for many, I believe to be genuine
patriots...Those promotions were really to promote Mysteries Of The Mind Radio
but lisa missed the point...Or maybe she didn't?

lisa conveniently twisted things by changing one word from what I really
wrote, changing the whole context of what really was...I wrote>>>"Alex should be
president" in a couple of those promotions...She changed "should" to "wanted" or
"wants" as you can hear for yourself if you'll listen to her spew the lies and
venom against me...That one word change was a sneaky twist that changed the
whole concept...She applies this tactic whenever she feels it will benefit her
with everyone she sets out to discredit...(The actual truth can still be found
as the posts would still be available in the forums back log, so she need not
deny this)

She didn't call him on the phone either on this particular matter of the "Alex
should be president" situation

And by the way...If you know him I think you might even agree he'd make a
great president, if it was possible that he run
lisa really messed up on structuring her lies against me on this one, big
time...That phone call in that capacity never happened...She actually discussed
it with him right on her own show...What a blunder!

Yes, he did laugh it off but not at me as she let on and put many words in his
mouth...A little embarrassed he was, I imagine, as anyone would be receiving
such praise in public domain as she did to him when he was on her show

She actually said word for word...I remember because she was friendly with me
at the time and I dwelt on her every word>>>"Alex, did you know there's a woman
out there doing a massive campaign saying you should be president?...He said
"no" maybe because he was shocked that lisa verified it a "massive" campaign and
not that he didn't know me or stand with me in my efforts...lisa twisted the
conversation immensely...He did know what I wrote about him in the promotions
and the president connection because we corresponded all the time...I always
sent them both, him and his wife Ardeth, copies of everything...They both
thanked me for my vote of confidence, concerning him for president and that was
it as they knew it was part of the promotion, only...

Lisa knew I networked with many groups but Alex had no way to know just how
many at that time because he had no groups as lisa did, to see...I hadn't
explained anything in detail to him back then, at that point

He didn't say he didn't know me as lisa tries to tell people...wings archives
don't go that far back enough for you to hear what really transpired but some
people will remember, I'm sure...especially Alex will remember how it really
went, you know, lisa?

Alex is a true patriot and did need funds to continue his much needed and
appreciated hard work...I have always helped the patriots I believed productive
and deserving with promotions for financial support...lisa has done nothing but
attack me for this because one of her pet peeves is disdain for anyone who needs
or asks for help in their work...If you've watched her show you know this is
fact and something she repeats often pertaining to everyone she targets, where
possible...She writes about it, too, calling it>>>OPM>>>Other People's Money

Before Alex M. had to take leave due to tragedy in his family he needed funds
desperately to continue the broadcasts and even more now...If you can find it in
your hearts to help out there is a donate button at his
website>>>http://mysteriesofthemind.com/

The tragedy is his daughter, Saucy, has cancer and that flesh eating
disease...Please pray and send good energy their way, too...She is doing better
and you can read the updates at his website...Many of us hope he will be back
soon and pick up where we left off

wing brags about their never having to ask for donations so if they're doing
so well maybe they'll send a donation Alex's way?

They for some reason never need to ask for help and many wonder why, too...But
they sure do pick on those who do need and ask...Don't you, lisa?

Don't buy her bull about my promoting Alex Jones or Jeff Rense among the many
other lies she told during that show, either...Never have, not one time

Not that I believe they're bad guys either...Everyone see things differently
and wing's judgment is their personal opinion, in my book until I learn
different myself

I don't even know Jeff Rense but lisa tells you different as you'll hear if
you play that bogus show they did on me...She says I post at his site and send
his articles everywhere as well as site his work...Never have but that doesn't
mean I believe him a bad guy...I just don't know him yet...

I did feature Alex Jones in a hit piece I did on wing but never a
promotion...I would if I thought he needed it, though

lisa claims I send fake stories?...I challenge her to post proof

Not only do I know Alex M. I have his permission to do my thing and he stands
with me, in what lisa calls dropping his name and leeching onto him...Would I be
stupid for claiming this all this time if it weren't true or what?...One word
from Alex, agreeing with lisa, would be my end, wouldn't it?

Alex is one third owner of a group I founded and used to own>>>
http://groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED/

He wanted to give "US" all platform to help take back our country and we were
working together...

The other two owners, I'll tell of later because that's a story in itself to
be told...Cute funny and supernatural, the way a very special union formed
concerning the other two owners...Very confirming and in sync with our combined
purpose and missions in the truth/patriot movement lisa claims doesn't exist and
makes soooo much fun of...Why would someone who's spose to be a good guy and
patriot, do that?

This post is already too long and I do apologize

lisa did ask Alex about his relationship with me during a time period when she
and victor were doing the news for him on his show...She said to the public she
asked him about me and he denied knowing me or anything about me...I believe he
double talked her and she took that to mean something other than what she wanted
to pick up on...He offered her no information because he didn't want to...He
probably did say he didn't know what was going on, when she asked, I'm
sure...Because he really didn't as he was a silent partner in one capacity but
in agreement to stand with us in another...
In fact his wife stands it at our WTP_U group in representation of him as an
owner...He was too busy and when he asked what he could do, after he
said>>>"Sign me up", I requested Ardeth to stand in for him as an owner and she
did and still does

He didn't have to answer or explain anything to lisa...And all those bad
things they said Alex said about me you'll hear, weren't true...He would never
talk like that about his worst enemy and if you knew him you'd know that...They
put words in his mouth as they do for many people as a rule

Okay lisa...Breaking news...Old but breaking...If Alex and I don't even know
each other, how in the world did I tell Rick Stanley you were getting canned
from doing his news just prior to it happening?...You know Rick, lisa?...He's
one of the many patriots you've slandered, lied on and twisted what he'd say,
taking anything you could out of context as you do for soooo many...I can't
count the times I've heard others say how you took what they said out of context

Yes, Alex confided in me but due to all that's transpired on account of you,
lisa, I'm sure he'll understand my putting you in your real place with the facts
in this truth...He felt bad because he liked you guys but he said half his
audience didn't and he had to let you go...Just ask Rick, lisa...No matter what
the reason he told you...how he worded it...Due to your character and public
opinion, you were a gonner

For those who don't know Rick Stanley>>>http://www.stanley2002.org/

His group is The Revolutionary Coalition
http://groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/TheRevolutionaryCoalition/

<<<uniting all third parties & those coming out of the two other basically
broken and corrupt parties, for The Super Third Party

Ask him soon because I hear he's getting six years for standing up for our
rights as he has...I just heard when a real patriot called me and told me...I do
hope it's not true and/or doesn't happen but I imagine it tickles your innards,
huh, lisa...Knowing the evil and vindictive soul, you seem to be operating under

This is not flaming because it's hard truth...I hope this forum realizes that
and does not delete this post as was done to the first one I sent...I can't get
back into this site because I am blocked but I'll find someone to send this for
me...It's only fair I have equal time because I was told lisa is being allowed
to go to town on me and others are joining in

The wing bullies may pick at some genuine and deserving targets now and then
but usually it's anyone and everyone they choose who are really good
people...Their tactics lead to keeping us all fighting, divided and suspicious
of each other...

You told sooo many lies on me in that one show and one was that you banned me
from your Newworldordercorner forum adding a big, big lie for the
reason...Everyone in your group knows I was not disobeying your posting rules
and did not get banned for recruiting from your membership as you stated on wing
tv...You lied about several complaining about me also at that time so you said
you had to ban me...So can you show us a few of those posts from your members at
your forum or ask them to verify this, please?...Or were all the complaints in
form of personal emails and gone now?

Don't you know your forum members were there and know the real truth?

Plus, at least some of them who may have been listening to your lies on me
during the "Useless Idiot" show, may have also seen the real way it happened
originally, too...They saw right through that one easily if they did see both
shows and you're busted...You're not a very good liar, actually

You banned me because I kicked your lying butt but good...You were trying to
make me out the villain and I got the better of you proving you the liar, when
one of your friends named Guy spoke up for me...You banned me immediately and I
exposed you at APFN before taking it to other forums, in fairness...Giving you
chance after chance to change direction and save face...All you had to do was
tell the truth that you were lying about me...I even gave you a big opening to
claim you were "mistaken" instead of lying to allow you to save face

I didn't go an extra mile for you, lisa, I went miles

Another friend of yours, Kim was there too at your forum who knows the
truth...So was my friend and right arm, Jacki Blue...Nice of you to send a
feeler out to her asking her what's up with me?...She didn't answer your sneaky
self, did she?
Guy and Kim, your friends are both at
reality101_redux>>>http://ca.groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/reality101_redux/ and we can
meet there to verify, if you dare?...I'm sure they wouldn't lie for someone like
you, lisa...I hate to put anyone on the spot but drastic times call for drastic
measures and you are a danger to America, after all

Last time you tried to set me up to meet you at the
Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines
group>>>http://tech.groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/
when I wouldn't come on your "used to be great show", I did comply...but your
little plans failed, didn't they?...You didn't count on the former owner of the
group being there and coming to my and Judy's (I didn't know Judy yet but had
just learned of her) defense when you thought the new owner would let you rake
us over the coals, I do believe?...He did (the new owner) sound disappointed to
me, when the old owner surfaced and pulled rank...Maybe I imagined it but it
would be curious to see what others think

Decide for yourself if you want the truth opposed to the lies lisa
tells...It's titled>>>EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT wingtv BLOWS THEIR COVER


>>>http://tech.groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/message/4\
0094

You got banned from another group again for being a lying witch, didn't you,
lisa?...I believe the wise former owner titled your ban>>>"Lisa Guliani has been
shown the door"

Are you keeping track of all who've thrown you out?...I hope you have the list
so we can compare later?...Everyone's been banning you, haven't they?...Many are
getting your number, finally, as your true colors come out...

So here you hide out among friends because no one else will talk to you...The
journalists threw you out...The scholars and 911 truth activists are your
enemies for the most part because you made it that way

You came into the Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines group bullying me and
screaming I wouldn't come on your show and I laughed when you were on my
answering machine demanding I be on your show like a bratty kid...Yeah,
right...Like I'd let you set me up, lisa...Not on your own turf like that...I
can beat you everywhere else fairly, anywhere else but there

You asked me to be on your show when you pretended to be a nice person a few
years back and you know I told you I wasn't able to speak due to reasons I won't
go into now...

(By the way, this reminds me of another lie you told on that show)...I am well
known in cyberspace and they know I have never discussed my health in the forums
all these years as you said...I don't do that...I may have said that I was
disabled which allowed me time to be an activist and very recently I did share
some things that I'm really surprised you didn't use against me, already...I
can't figure why, when you have good stuff on me to use that could make me look
like one of the tin foil hat people and you didn't use it?

I'm going to send this to at least some of the groups, maybe them all, so many
will know what I'm talking about but for those who don't know me at Signs of the
Times, I won't be able to detail now...That too is a separate story as it's not
a short thing to write out and I know how people hate long posts...

I am famous for this as lisa will tell you but then there is the delete key if
anyone chooses to use it...This is the only truth lisa tells about me>>>Saying I
write long posts, although I don't agree with her when she adds my posts are
whiny...Long, yes but never whiny...Just truth

The health crap lisa lied about my whining to the groups about is not
true...She derived that from private email sent out a year and a half ago and
only to about 30 VIP's (Very Important People/Patriots), I have on a list I
share sensitive information with...I call it my trusted VIP list

You were on it wayyyy back and that's where my health came in that I did write
about and you know it...Remember when I almost died, lisa, due to a certain
attack and I stroked out?...The list was very small back then, about 30, and
Rick Stanley, Alex Merklinger and his wife Ardeth contacted me out of concern,
helping me though what had happened...

On this VIP list are many well knowns who have, for a few years, allowed me to
share and network with them...Alex Jones is one and I believe him a true
patriot...As I said I would have no problem with doing a promotion for him if I
thought he needed that help...
John Kaminski, your friend you play fickle with, lisa, was on my VIP list
too...but when I attacked you with truth the time before last in all the forums
he loyally asked to be removed...Or maybe it was because you brought Judy into
the picture and he knew I'd put her on the VIP list?

victor told more than one lie on that show about me too, that I caught...He
said he doesn't know me and I never sent him anything?...He was placed on my VIP
list after I removed the hateful and mean spirited lisa after she banned me from
her group...I'd lost hope in her coming around in order to help unite our people
so we could join efforts...I tried to reach victor who I hoped might talk some
sense into her

When I started my campaign against wing with the subject titles>>>EXTRA EXTRA
READ ALL ABOUT wing tv, etc, victor blocked me from sending to him...I like to
title them that way especially for the deserving gruesome twosome so everyone
will be sure not to miss them

I believe that her knowing the masses were learning the truth about her
because of my EXTRA, EXTRA alerts, did devastate her as she so adamantly denied
on that special show she did on my behalf...This is because she didn't do the
following shows and I'd never seen that before...I was watching everyday up to
that point and she'd never missed a show...When she did finally come back we
heard she had a new puppy...It was my intuition mainly that told me that she'd
fallen into depression because I told so many the truth about her, exposing her
true essence...I'm usually right when it comes to being hit with intuitions and
I could almost see victor trying to bring her out of it

I'm not a mean person...I even went to sleep that night thinking on this and
had a sad sinking feeling for lisa...I hurt for her...Actually felt sorry for
her...I prayed for her and still do...I only hate the way she is...Not
her...Actually I've gotten that feeling for her recently, too, when I watched
one of her shows...I don't usually watch anymore but tuned in a few weeks
back...I can only think that my heart hurts for her because maybe she really
believes she's doing right and it's not purposely to hurt our chances of getting
our country back?

I really do think she's ignorant and her ego is soooo big but maybe she's
stupid too and really does mean well...It does make me feel bad to attack her as
I have to...If she does mean well she sure goes about trying to fix things in a
very wrong and negative way that shouldn't be...So incredibly wicked in the way
it tears people apart...Individually and on the whole

I'm mad as hell and won't leave this mess for future generations if I can help
it and wing does not help "US" at all...In fact, they really are holding us back
and that's the truth...If your heart is good and common sense your companion you
know I'm telling the truth and not the liar

I just don't know for sure what's in that seeming wicked head of lisa's but I
do know I still hope someday she stops the attacks on us all and instead becomes
the catalyst that unites "US"...

This is what I expected in the first place when I tried to pass my data base,
groups and all, on to her, I was really disappointed with what I received
back...Actually I was shocked

I was devastated that we couldn't join together and build on what we both
brought to the table in a way to benefit mankind...I tried very hard for a long
period of time to reason with her and many saw that

I tried really hard with lisa and she did hurt me in more ways than one...

Geeeez...I lost my hero and inspiration...Because in my mind, all along, since
I learned of wing tv, knowing I wasn't able or qualified to bring what was
needed and visioned to fruition, myself...But I knew she was a great choice to
take what I frantically and obsessively helped build with many others though the
years and do something with it

If you're a perceptive individual when listening to the hatchet job they did
on me, you can hear the truth coming through loud and clear, too

Back to about being on your deceiving show, lisa...If I couldn't do that under
friendly terms back then, how in the world would you expect that of me under the
circumstances now?...You were waiting with baited breath as O'Reilly would one
who had a truth to expose, knowing he would have the floor under pretty much
control and stifle anything he didn't like, immediately...Like come into my
parlor the spider said to the fly, kind of, huh?

One of the many lies and twists she told on me on that show was she claimed my
website has been up since 2003 and she had taken screen shots of it and said
there's been no activity or progress since the beginning

She forgets she joined the WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED group when I first created it
and owned it in 2003...She left shortly after joining leaving a hateful comment
in back then...She said she saw nothing productive about our forum...She got the
group mixed up with the website evidently because the website is newer and has
not been there that long...

It is under construction and it has been a long time coming with the intended
loading of all the groups standing with "US" for reasons outside my
control...Our webmaster will get to it when he can...We are all busy...

The website wasn't even created by me, either...It was done for our truth &
patriot movement by Steve Yantis aka Quicksilverdime from The We The People
Coalition>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WeThePeopleCoalition/, did, in fact,
and the web site belongs to We The People everywhere

Steve's involved with alternative parties and Independents uniting to defeat
the reps and broken dem parties...Like Rick Stanley in uniting all third
parties...They're both listed at our web site and we have hundreds of groups to
load as our sister groups as soon as our webmaster can get to it asap

Lies, lies, lies...Why would lisa go to so much trouble to do that hatchet job
on a nobody like me, don't you have to wonder?

Could it be that I'm the danger and lisa has to discredit me?...Could it be
the huge data bank of contacts I've accumulated through the years and the many
groups I'm associated with could help "US" to become organized if in the right
hands?

She pretends to not know what I wanted from her and says no matter how many
times she asks I won't spit it out?...She knows

But if she's really that shallow maybe someone else will explain it to her?

Another lie, misconception or whatever it was, was when victor said on that
show that Nico Haught, a no-planer, was making fun of me and named a whole group
of stupid people after me in the 911 truth movement

Nico Haught from 911insidejobbers sent me a message that he did not say that
about me...Nico said "victor was mistaking Sallies for Marsha's" when he was
trying to put me down in one of his trashings

victor claimed on that show we at WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED, have no members and are
cointelpro...If you would like to stop in or join us at our original WTP_U
group>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED/ you will see that
soon we'll have 1000 members...and I assure you most of them are group owners,
themselves

victor makes further fun of our website in stating that we have no staff
listed among other things at our supposedly fake cointelpro website...He
actually tries to make one feel afraid I may have their name in a no good data
bank

We have a private Mother WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED group and center where you have
to be able to put differences aside enough to work together to be invited...lisa
won't be coming but I wanted the group created and her to have it at one time

We will be inviting many of our 900 plus group owners and members when we can
get to it...We'll be leaving the agents and bad guys behind

That's where our staff and myself await the time when someone like lisa, with
the capability, but with good motive, will help us move forward...We wait for
Alex Merklinger, too...

I wanted to hand all I worked so hard for, over to lisa to help combine
efforts with wing tv so we could take back our country...That's all I
wanted...Why would that be soooo hard for lisa to understand?

I said I would step aside from my groups, lists, everything...I had at that
time several groups I owned but lost them due to aol terminating my account due
to my activism activities

Instead of even graciously declining she went on the attack and I was shocked
and hurt...

One of the many reasons I know wing tv is dangerous and working against the
true patriots is that they always encourage people to stop watching mainstream
media...They say turn it off, when we need to be doing the exact
opposite...Except for fox news and especially, bill the shill o'lielly the
original spinner lisa takes after
We encourage everyone instead to subscribe to Newshounds>>>
http://www.newshounds.us/

They watch fox so you don't have to, is their motto...This way they get no
ratings and we can still hold them accountable...One of my favorite things to do
was to attack bill with truth everytime he messed up and send all his peers in
media a copy so he could see they saw...I don't watch anymore though because his
ratings are definitly going down and he's being well taken care of

For years I have passed out to the public, media and elected official contacts
and encouraged the masses to demand truth in reporting and that our elected
officials work on behalf of We The People...We must refuse to be We The
Peasants, anymore...

Email me at mofmars3@... if you'd like the contact lists sent to
you...You might want to send the request to me at mofmars3@... also to
be sure I see it because I have a lot of trouble getting into my sbc account a
lot of the time...There has been and still are severe hack jobs on my
computer...This too is another long and incredible story that has been going on
a very long time

I've had two computers killed already and they've been working on this
one...I'm a nobody like victor and lisa say but I make big waves with the
content of the many press releases I whip out on media and elected
officials...Evidently this makes someone very mad

There are some in media who are finally speaking out with truth and they need
our support...The rest need brow beat into reporting truth and doing their
jobs...We must hold them all accountable, including elected officials

Tune in and see the shift in reporting going on for yourself...Many are coming
forward on many fronts and it is being reported on for a change

Especially Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC at 8 pm Eastern time...If we
all go to the prison camps they'll be taking him first...lol...Not
really...Wayyyy too many of "US" for those plans to succeed

Watch Bill Maher at 11 pm on HBO East>>>http://www.hbo.com/billmaher/ or
wherever you can find him on your cable...My God does he tell it like it is and
would be in as much danger as Olberman if that was the case

These guys may not be with us on all the issues such as, I believe, Bill
Mayher is still pro-Israel but he's coming around on other levels and that's
great

Lou Dobbs Tonight on CNN at 6 covers many important issues and is encouraging
all to switch to the Independent Party and voting in a person who will have our
best interests at heart...We will have our candidate when the time comes in 2008
we can all rally round...Those corrupt and controlling the dems and repubs are
out of luck as many are coming out of the broken parties

The time has never been more right for us to succeed in creating the Super
Third Party and bury the old parties which are two sides of the same coin
Then there's CNN's, The Situation Room at 4 and 7 with Wolf Blitzer and
Cafferty...Amazing concerned newcasters really mad and telling it like it is,
allowing truth out

OMG did 60 Minutes on CBS get down last Sunday at 7...Andy Rooney is one of
"US" and is he peed off

We do have friends in mainstream media as well as some elected officials...Not
many but some

Please wake up to who and what the mean wing team really are doing
everyone...It's important for this planet and the future of all our
children...Their very lives are at stake at this point...We can't leave this
mess to them by allowing the enemy in any form to work against us

wing must change direction or be exposed for what they are

lisa's using you, Laura...Please watch out...She's bad news and will bring
down anyone who falls for her tricks

Chris Bollyn is not the enemy as lisa would like you to believe...I was sorry
to see Chris used bad judgment with bringing lisa's children into it but
otherwise I feel bad for him for the deal he got from wing

That Sonny Crack guy lisa whines about who so sickenly laid into her was the
same type case as Chris, in a way...Done in anger and retaliation...and
understandably so in my book as well as many, I'm sure believe...Those that know
the true lisa, anyway

They went to extremes, yes...Chris bringing the kids into it and Sonny in
defaming lisa...If it would have been anyone else that Sonny Crack went after
and I knew that person to be a good one, I would have really been disgusted but
considering the source...It was "just" and funny as hell...I felt guilty for
enjoying it so much and got yelled at by my son who shamed me, too...and I
subsequently yelled at Judy Andreas for enjoying it

Seeing wing get some of their own medicine was wonderful, even if it was in a
low down and dirty way...I could think of no one more deserving considering wing
hurts soooo many innocent people...These guys went for the throat in retaliation
for others...and that's exactly why...Chris struck out in anger too and should
be forgiven for using bad judgment due to the circumstances he's been through

They asked for it and have been getting it...We have just begun to defend
ourselves, I'm really sure..."US" good guys against the bad ones will always win
in every end so please choose your side wisely

lisa likes to name people...She gave me one as you'll see if you tune into
that show...That is if they don't pretend to use too much bandwidth and
discontinue the archives

I hereby officially name her>>looney lisa the liar>>>a true psychopath, if
there ever was one...Shoe fits and she should wear it well...She's the mirrored
image of all she tries to pin on others

Getting Laura to help do her evil bidding, bribing her by helping to sell her
book, maybe?...I do hope Laura distances herself from wing as many others have
and that she turns out to be one of the good guys

It is time for the real patriots stand up and they have been

(((V))) For Victory & Peace
Marsha

Note from Marsha...

Please join us>>>

"We The People United Movement"

We are many Political and Patriot Groups joining together, to help right the
wrongs in America..."United We Will Stand"

WETHEPEOPLE_UNITED


For those who don't know me>>>I'm an activist working to help unite
organizations, projects and groups with important issues for the loud voice and
strength in numbers we need

We are spiritual and secular people from many walks of life, learning to put
differences aside enough to work together for the good of mankind

I have not been able to keep up with scanning the digests of the many yahoo
groups I network with...I keep 500 plus groups on the average for monitoring to
help recruit and connect like issues and especially for uniting purpose

Our network is growing daily and is sweeping the nation as it spreads throughout
the entire globe...Many others are doing the same type of uniting and we plan to
connect and unite efforts with all of them we find on our journey

I have to delete my email continually to keep up so if you want me to see
something important pertaining to a productive and positive nature please
put>>>***SOS***in the subject box and send to me >>>mofmars3@...
I am sorry but I'm not able to answer all emails at the moment but will try to
get to them all

Please contact me with your group link if you are an owner and would like it
added to our website

We are holding off on the loading of our many sister groups for the time being
due to mainly circumstances and behind the scene projects taking priority...Such
as the uniting of all third parties and recruiting of all who will come out of
the broken dem & rep parties

 

[CarpeDiem]

>>>mofmars3@...

Lisa, what's the complete adress of this NUTS? She needs some rewiring

 

[ark]

I think she did quite well - those who have eyes will see. ;)

In this mad-mad world what is important is to have few oases of reason, where non-nuts can seek refuge and rest from noise, where black is called black and white is called white. Noise is being created to distract from real issues. More often than not it does its job. Such is the world. But noise needs to be recognized as such - nothing more and nothing less - just noise.