John Kaminski Goes Off the Deep End

[Lisa Guliani]

Okay, I apologize for inflicting that crap on everyone.
But I think it is useful to show how these alleged "apple pie-patriot" personas operate.
I can knock down every single thing she accuses me of, but this will take time, as her diatribe is quite lengthy (as everybody noticed by now). Let me know if you all want me to do this more than I lay out below, and if so, I will.

First, I want to make some points:

1. Marsha Mofmars & Judy Andreas do indeed belong to the same yahoo group, the one in which Mofmars posted the above rant.>Global Media Lightning Headlines. Judy has posts dating back to Fall of 2004 in that forum. Marsha has made frequent posts in there as well and has been a member for quite some time.
I have copied and pasted numerous interesting tidbits from that forum's message archive, including one post where Marsha & Judy address one another. So, she LIES when she says they weren't in any forum together. They are STILL both on that forum. They don't know each other BECAUSE of me. I never introduced them to one another. So that is a misrepresentation too.

2. When Andreas first came onto this forum, she gave the distinct impression that she didn't know about Laura prior to the article she read about herself,penned by Laura. she also made claims that she didn't know how to get in contact with Laura, and I got the impression from what she wrote that she had never heard of SOTT before. Well, it's funny that she presented it that way, because I found SOTt articles posted in the SAME forum - at least 4 different pieces, one by Ruth, one by Laura, one by Joe Quinn, and one by Henry See. It's noteworthy that "Signs of the Times " is credited as the original source of the articles, but the posters never bothered to insert the link to this website along with the pasted writings. They just pasted the articles with author names and website name. Still, considering that Judy andreas has been on that forum for so long, kinda curious that she had never heard of Laura or SOTT until the article which ultimately landed her here.

The following SOTT articles are posted in GMLH message archives:

Signs Editorial:
The History Of War Is The History Of Lies
Joe Quinn
Signs of the Times
24/07/2006

Condoleezza Pregnant: Giving Birth to Monster
Laura Knight-Jadczyk , Signs of the Times
Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:54 pm
(This article posted twice - on both July 24 and 25th)

A Wave of Sexual Terrorism In Iraq
Signs Editorial: A Wave of Sexual Terrorism In Iraq By Ruth Rosen Tomdispatch. com Signs of the Times
Posted: July 14, 2006

Signs Editorial: Hell Henry See
18 July 2006
Signs of the Times
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:16 am
__________________________________________________________________________________________

3. Mofmars refers to me being "shown the door" by someone running another forum, but she doesn't bother to tell you that it was in THAT forum those exact words were used. I copied the post from their message archive.
She twisted that in her rant. I was banned from Global Media Lightning Headlines because I refuted and clarified misrepresentations and stupid gossip between Andreas and Mofmars, including Judy's standard misrepresentation of our ACQUAINTANCE, among other things.
Because I stood up to these people, I was "shown the door".
_________________________________________________________________________________________

4. I did challenge Mofmars to come on WING TV to hash out her weirdness and she refused to do so. As you can see from reading her rant, she admits she ignored my phone message. She did not respond personally to the emails we sent her about that show, and she admits she saw them. Instead of replying to the email address (thorn's), she chose to simply trash me behind my back in THAT forum.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

5. Here is an example showing that these women DID know one another in THIS forum (GLMH):
In a message dated 3/10/2006 10:48:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Mofmars3@... writes:

Marsha says: The problem was they were very specific about it being for just one day


Judy says: Yes....they already told me that on Sept 12th they will go back to disliking me.

Posted at GMLH: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:08 pm
JUDE10901@...
http://tech(dot)groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/message/36885


They are referring to WING's appeal to all 9-11 truthers to be in attendance at Ground Zero in NYC on 9-11 - and what we DID say, was that it was important to be there, even if somepeople didn't like one another. For that one day, we could all be at the same place for the bigger cause. We never told Judy we would "like her for 9-11 and then NOT like her on the 12th". This is a classic example of how Andreas twists everything that is said to her to suit her purpose.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

6. My "alleged friend" Judy Andreas posted a Rense hitpiece smearing Victor Thorn and me on the GLMH forum. See here:
"This is a very sad thing to read on Easter Sunday"
Chicken WINGs Clucking And Flapping Again _http://www.rense.com/general70/cluck.htm_ (http://www.rense.com/general70/cluck.htm) There are few who do not...
JUDE10901@...
Posted at GMLH: Apr 16, 2006 8:12 am

________________________________________________________________________________________

7. Here, Judy Andreas gets into playing the game she has stated she does NOT play:
the "He said/She said" game:

Re: [GMLH] BANNED KAMINSKI ...........

John Kaminksi should learn a lesson from David Duke. David is fair and knows
the difference between Jewish Supremacists and the "rank and file" Jewish
person. He had been given forums by many good people.....Jeff Rense, Jack Blood, Meria
Heller...and what did he do? He turned their shows into hate fests, wrote hit
pieces and lied about them. John will always have a fan base and has gotten many donations in the past.
(many from Jewish people who supported him....until his obsession obscured his vision)
John is a talented man and a gifted writer, but he cannot see that he is his own worst enemy.
He is the best friend of the NWO.

PS I love his quote about Jesus, who he has constantly stated he does not
believe in.
Posted at GMLH: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:50 am
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/message/37439
_________________________________________________________________________________________

8. Another Op tactic: false accusation or alluding to wrongdoing with no substantiation.
Here, Marsha Mofmars suggests that Victor Thorn and I hacked her computer or were involved in the "alleged" hacking of her computer. This is total nonsense, which she never bothered to qualify.
She just tells the group members we're "busted".
Incidentally, We don't hack other people's computers. We're the ones that get hacked - CONSTANTLY.
If Mofmars was being hacked, perhaps someone OTHER THAN WING TV got sick of her Wacko SPAM.

Marsha says: I have heard from two people in lisa and victors defense so far but
their complaints can be easily rebutted by saying that I'm not bad
mouthing them...I'm telling the truth but it looks that way because
it's their own medicine.
Two friends "only" compared to the many "thank yous" plus personal
stories of what lisa & victor did to them and such
Now, when I get a chance to scan the many digests, I'm sure the
numbers will increase on both sides in proportion to what can already
be told from the current count

One of these two friends of theirs wanted to point out that they
agreed about a specific person being a bad guy.
It doesn't matter that they may be correct about one person or
another, or not...That's not near the point of what is going on here

I do not attack anyone...I defend the truth when I have no other
choice

Stand by for more truth because I'm really angry now and whoever has
been hacking my computer is going down.
My server is working with me and told me, in no uncertain terms, I am
being hacked...for the 5th time since November they told me...

They are waiting for my attorneys name to be added to my account so
we can learn who this person is...I have a pretty good idea and there
seems to be a direct connection from that person to lisa & victor
I'm waiting for them to do it again but their busted either way.

Very Sincerely,
Marsha
________________________________________________________________________________________

9. A post by Judy Andreas in the SAME forum as Mofmars, talking about Victor Thorn and me being on WOR 710 radio discussing 9-11 research and inconsistencies in the official story. We did so for 6 hours with Lionel (show host, NYC) over a two day period.

****Please note Judy's references to her old friends from the WABC days.*****

Re: WING TV on WOR AM Radio: The 9-11 Worm is Turning
Message #37853 of 44644 < Prev | Next >
Thanks so much for the link. I had not been able to catch the show in real
time and was glad to listen to the link.

The show was amazing and definitely one whose time has come. I applaud
Lionel for having the courage to talk about a REAL topic.

Lionel is/was a lawyer who became a talkshow host because of his wit and
humor as a caller to a local Florida radio station. His career continued to
skyrocket. Ultimately, he got caught up in WABC radio (a mouthpiece for the
powers that be) I had stopped listening to him for that reason and also
because I could no longer listen to talkradio at all.

Today I listened to the link and heard a new side of Lionel. There was no
mocking or joking around. I heard a person whose interest was to ascertain
the truth and he treated Victor and Lisa with respect and admiration.

A friend of mine, from the old WABC days, wrote to me and told me how
fascinated she was. This is a woman who never would have questioned the
government. I wonder how many others of people are doing the same thing.

Judy
Posted at GLMH: Sun Apr 2, 2006 9:00 am
UDE10901@...
_______________________________________________________________________________________

10. In this GMLH post, my "alleged friend" Judy Andreas shows me (again) what a hypocrite/liar she is. She was also having conversations with John Kaminski discussing how Victor Thorn and I are "government agents". She denies ever having these conversations, yet here she is in a public forum:

Thorn and I are NOT government agents.


Judy says:

"There is new legislation in NJ because of people like Victor and Lisa who
are defaming people daily. (It was announced on The Power Hour) What are
these two people accomplishing? Why do they care if Alex Jones sells videos
or Jeff Rense discusses a variety of topics? Why must they use their show as
a place to attack other Patriots and divide the movement?"

"Yesterday I received the following letter........
<<they are govt disinformation agents and OF COURSE some of their
material is on the mark...that is what DISINFO is all about. it is the
character assassinations and slander and libel that give their act away. it is blatant
and outrageously obvious what they are about>>"

"Could it be true? Having once been a friend of Lisa's (or so I thought)
I hate to consider the possibility."

Best,
Judy
Posted at GLMH: Tue Mar 7, 2006 9:20 am
________________________________________________________________________________________

Ark is right. This is NOISE.
However, people need to see how they operate, how they lie, twist , contort, attack and incite others
to do the same.
Then ask yourselves, what does the word "patriot" mean anymore, if these people and those they support, defend and endorse call themselves "patriots"?

 

[vinny]

funny, I see the word 'patriot', and keep misreading it as 'parrot'
maybe that's about right?

 

[henry]

They went to extremes, yes...Chris bringing the kids into it and Sonny in
defaming lisa...If it would have been anyone else that Sonny Crack went after
and I knew that person to be a good one, I would have really been disgusted but
considering the source...It was "just" and funny as hell...I felt guilty for
enjoying it so much and got yelled at by my son who shamed me, too...and I
subsequently yelled at Judy Andreas for enjoying it

Seeing wing get some of their own medicine was wonderful, even if it was in a
low down and dirty way...I could think of no one more deserving considering wing
hurts soooo many innocent people...These guys went for the throat in retaliation
for others...and that's exactly why...Chris struck out in anger too and should
be forgiven for using bad judgment due to the circumstances he's been through

Seeing Wing-TV get some of their own medicine????

Since when did Wing-TV ever make the kind of vile attacks on people that those yahoos did? Is this Marsha person unable to see the difference?

I guess not. Incredible the blindness of these folks. Instead she can justify it all because the filth-throwers were having a bad day. They can be forgiven. No forgiveness for Lisa and Thorn, though!

Here's a good one from JudeA that showed up on Israel Shamir's Togethernet:

I find ethnic slurs about any group of people a real turn off. It is divisive and counterproductive. I have dropped friends who have made slurs about Muslims. (and they were not Jewish people) Since I believe in "freedom of speech", I cannot impose my ethics but, instead, must be the one to remove myself from the ugliness.

As a woman of Jewish origin, baptized in 1991, I have spoken out on the issues and suffered the slings and arrows from all sides. My purpose for writing is always to unite NOT to divide.
People who name call and point fingers are playing right into the NWO's agenda....and that's a game I will not play.

So Ms Andreas doesn't point fingers and name call!

Joe wrote her the following:

Your purpose as you see it, Judy, may be to "unite not divide", but are you able to differentiate between honest intentions and deception? Or do you want everyone to simply "be friends", even if some self-proclaimed "friends" may not exactly have friendly intentions beneath the surface? Do you not think that division, and drawing the line, is always going to be necessary in the real world where covert operatives infiltrate groups with the appearance of being on our side? If they use nice words and pleasantries and flattery to fool you, are you going to take the bait in the interest of "uniting" with them?

Joe

I responded to her:

Judy, you're being disingenuous here. What about the nasty things you have had to say about Laura? And supporting Chris Bollyn's completely uncalled for use of Lisa Guliani's children in an attack on her?

Yes, the point about uniting and dividing is important. The question is, what are we uniting around? If it is truth, then uniting with known liars and manipulators, with people who are willing to use vile and degrading tactics, isn't a positive step. The unity is only on the surface, and the cancer will spread under the surface. If we behave and adopt the strategies of those who have come before us, then no matter what we do, the world will end up in the same mess it has always been in. The killing and suffering will continue, only it will be a different population that is the target. The surface will change, but the net result will be the same.

That's human history until now, and that dynamic repeats. We look at the surface changes to the world of technique and we fool ourselves into believing it is "progress", but man himself doesn't change, has made no progress whatsoever. We may even be less 'advanced' than in other periods of history, but we are so full of our gadgets and instant communication that we are blind to it.

So how to get out of the loop? How do we break the cycle?

The way I see it, we are not fighting against anything; we are defending truth and conscience. We are not seeking to harm others but to protect ourselves. It is a very different intent. If we are protecting ourselves, then we don't want to be among manipulators and liars. That is a purely pragmatic approach. If we are defending truth and conscience, then there is also a more fundamental reason to exclude liars and manipulators.

But then no one ever said it would be easy.

For some examples of how Judy doesn't name call and point fingers, check out the thread on John Kaminski on the Signs forum:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3521

A page with a relevant quote from Judy:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3521.msg24998#msg24998

Henry

Henry

 

[CarpeDiem]

Henry, is Judy on a friendly foot with Israel Shamir???? Or she just dropped occasionaly there?
I didn't find together(net), i know his site is israelshamir.net. Update: It's one of yahoo discussion groups.

 

[Alana]

Here we have these two women (btw, why is it that after so many posts of them i am still not sure what they are DOing and how are they related to the 9/11 movement and people?), who like Bollyn in the neighbour thread, they make the issues discussed about themselves, turn everything towards themselves and add irrelevant, IMO, remarks about how they look in their pictures, who they know and are friends with in the 9/11 movement, how "nice", "friendly", "honest" and "just" they are, etc... And it reminds me of a post that Magus made months ago, who describes them pretty well i think (amphasis mine):

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=521

What comes to you now is to teach you when to Take Heed and Flee from the company of those who may not possessed of True Conscience be. While no definitive means has yet been devised for a "quick study" detection of psychopathy, the Magus has one to disclose the nearest, primary characteristic that is associated with that foul Soul-Eating Disease. The fundamental trait of those who consume others as their Raison D'etre is Pathological Selfishness, which can be Seen and Heard by observing and making note of the Trait of Habitual Self-Involvement.

'Tis a simple matter of Words Mes Amis et Amies, powerful and revealing Words. There are but 2 Sets of Words you must listen and read for well: 1) "I, ME, MY, MINE, MYSELF"; 2) "WE, US, OURS, OURSELVES, OTHERS & TOPICS ALL." Which Set does strike your eye or ear more than half the time, whenever there is not strictly personal information and experience being told. Do not fail to note the difference in claimed subject matter. If one is telling of one's own expriences and Being, one does and must use the Words of Set 1, most legitimately. However, when the topic is information not originating with or about the communicating individual, when, most of all, factual information is alleged to be the topic, then note how often do appear the "I, Me, My, Myself and Mine" Words.

The more self-involved is a person, the more often appear those Words. For the extremely self-involved, no matter what the actual, factual topic may have been, for them it will be how "I, Me, My, Myself, and Mine" relates to, feels about, thinks about, likes or dislikes, or whatever, about the topic: It becomes all about "I, Me, My, Myself and Mine" and not really the factually nominal topic at all.

And note you well too, observe you and See, watch you for those who deftly always Turn Topics To "I, Me, My, Myself and Mine." That is the second "trick" of the pathlogically selfish person's Unmind, to always Make Self the Subject Within A Short Time, no matter where, or upon what note began the communication.

 

[Laura]

I've been thinking about this whole business and it's all of a pattern. In order to explain it all, I am going to start a new thread.

It is here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3852

Entitled Kochav ben Yehuda and Joni Ferris: An A.D.L. Saga?

 

[Lisa Guliani]

More from the Uber Parrot, Marsha Mofmars:
Posted at GMLH: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:23 pm
http://tech(dot)groups(dot)yahoo(dot)com/group/Global_Media_Lightning_Headlines/message/39963

Mofmars even takes credit for me having a dog, saying I got a puppy because she depressed me with her "truth". LITERALLY--OFF--HER--NUT.

Is everyone beginning to see how this person ROUTINELY operates?
What Marsha "does": is COLLECT NAMES of people and add them to a list, purpose of list very questionable.
If one refuses to be added to the "list", then you become Marsha's target.
The "list" seems to serve one VISIBLE purpose for Mofmars: It's used to spam and smear those she targets, like WING TV.
SOTT, by association with me, is now likely to get similar treatment.
This is ROUTINE and smacks of Cointelpro tactic, at least, to me.

Lisa
_________________________________________________________________________________________


Marsha says:

***Extra Extra, Read All About (((IT)))***
Follow up on Alex Jones & the mean wing team attack on him

The following matter may be new to you but I assure you it's of
importance as we need honest and trustworthy citizens educating our
people with truth

Original article after follow up and please see added note at the
very end

This is a letter written to a member of one of the Cindy Sheehan
activist groups...It's in response to a reply they sent me because
of an article I wrote in defense of continuous character
assassinations on patriots...This article was written about an
alternative and used to be trusted, media source>>>wintv.net

In this particular incident they attack Alex Jones from (link removed)

First an apology before the follow up...

I couldn't help myself and I watched all their shows this last week
because I wanted to see what they were up to

They're doing some serious bragging about the million plus hits they
get each month...They said "and this with no advertising and just
word of mouth"

I sincerely apologize for all the promotions I networked through our
groups on their behalf these past few years...We did help make this
wing monster grow and I am very sorry

I wrote:

Wow...That was really thought out and made sense...Maybe I'm wrong
and it's not that they're just ignorant with huge egos? Maybe they
really are agents working to divide the patriots and people?

Yes, I know about them turning those people into the FBI...Jack
Blood from Dead Line Live Radio told me about that

Jack's one of the many radio show hosts on my VIP & Patriot list and
also one of the many targets of Lisa & Victor's

Deadlinelive Radio>>>

He said his letter was not confidential the first time nor this time
he wrote me when he responded to my write ups on them

You should see all the negative responses so far, not one in their
favor...The first time I retaliated against their attacks there were
at least a few duped people

I may put some of them out there when and if permission comes from
those who wrote them

You know, I'm the founder of the movement and groups for the>>>

"We The People United Movement"
We are many Political and Patriot Groups joining together, to help
right the wrongs in America..."United We Will Stand"

I've been working for years doing what your friend wrote about Lisa
and Victor did in gathering many contact lists>>>

I keep extensive lists of them all including a large list of
concerned citizens and patriots which I call my VIP list>>>Very
Important People and Patroits

Some well known to the public and most not so well...All with
integrity and credibility

Elected officials, radio, television networks, newspapers, foreign
and domestic...

There is a huge firefighters union list, and I mean huge, university
journalism departments, united nations permenente missions, world
embassy contacts etc, etc

I even have the reporters and journalists email addresses that go
directly to their personal email inbox

Anyone can email me and request any or all this massive assortment
of email contacts except for the latter but I do make exceptions
when need be...I use these personal emails rarely and only in urgent
matters...I use them with much discretion

Back to the used to be "dynamic duo"

I was fooled and wanted to give to Lisa all that many of us have
worked hard to build

I just knew when all our groups who have been uniting...and we are
many...joined with wing that we would conquer all...and quick...I
was so excited and would have stepped out and handed it all over to
her

I was prompted instead by her rejection to give all to three special
individuals instead but WTP_U actually belongs to all the people

Lisa tried to discredit me in her group and banned me when the truth
came out that I was the good guy and she was not

It was an ongoing and aggressive battle between us that went on and
on...We moved it to her group...Or I should say, I did

When one of her own members spoke up on my behalf, I was banned

I announced throughout cyberspace her defeat...Her defeat in what
transpired behind the scenes between us because she cut me off from
speaking truth by banning me .500 + groups I networked with then and exposed her for what she was

(I was hacked continuously and my original account terminated so I
lost all groups and am operating back at a little over 30 % now)

This is the third time I've felt the need to defend the true
patriots and I know Lisa and Victor just love the subject line I
chose for their write ups...I've reserved especially and
exclusively, for them the subject title >>>"EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL
ABOUT IT"

I believe the first time I did this to wing it crippled Lisa's
integrity and she knew it...I believe it was so bad for her to see
that truth I wrote that she could not even do the following wingtv
shows...I can't prove this but I know it in my heart...and when they
came back and did a new show finally, I heard Lisa got a new puppy

I could actually visualize Victor begging her to come out of it and
get back to work...I believe the puppy did the trick

Silly me even felt so bad at night I'd pray for her because I was
sure she was devastated and hurting and that hurt me...I just wanted
her to be nice and play fair...I wanted her help so we could secure
the future for our children of this planet

I am now her biggest nemesis and truth is with me so she will not
mention me publicly

She did a few years ago when she said to Alex Merklinger of
Mysteriesofthemind.com (one of our three owners of WTP_U) She
said..."Alex, do you know there's a lady out there doing a massive
email campaign for you saying that you should be president?"

I really respected her and thought she was brave...We communicated
way back before she so hatefully turned on me...I was in shock she
tried to make me out a liar and bad guy

It did not make sense to me, her rejection...Not at all...Why would
she not want all of us at WTP_U and all the sister groups who agreed
to stand with us to join with Wing?...All unifying under Wing could
really sweep the nation and skyrocket...Couldn't she see that?

But it is now sinking in

This letter from your friend made things much clearer

If it's possible could I get permission to use that letter from your
friend?...and if so, would they want me to use their name as author?

This is a battle for "Truth" and I've received much information, all
opposed to and exposing the wing team but this was by far the best
I've seen...Thank you so much

Hugs,
Marsha


-- In campcaseyalumni@yahoogroups.com, someone wrote:
>
> Here is what a friend of mine wrote about Thorn and Lisa. BTW do
you know they actually called the FBI when an upstart radio show
pointed fun at them? Give that a moments thought.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyone who is interested/unfamiliar with the above reference to the FBI, can read all about the still ongoing Revere Radio psycho attacks against me for the last year and a half+ elsewhere on this forum.

 

[Laura]

They went to extremes, yes...Chris bringing the kids into it and Sonny in
defaming lisa...If it would have been anyone else that Sonny Crack went after
and I knew that person to be a good one, I would have really been disgusted but
considering the source...It was "just" and funny as hell...I felt guilty for
enjoying it so much and got yelled at by my son who shamed me, too...and I
subsequently yelled at Judy Andreas for enjoying it

Seeing wing get some of their own medicine was wonderful, even if it was in a
low down and dirty way...I could think of no one more deserving considering wing
hurts soooo many innocent people...These guys went for the throat in retaliation
for others...and that's exactly why...Chris struck out in anger too and should
be forgiven for using bad judgment due to the circumstances he's been through

And then:

...we need honest and trustworthy citizens educating our
people with truth...

I think we've had enough of Marsha McClelland.

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Hey, are we all having fun yet?


Just received:

To: "Lisa Guliani"
Subject: Lisa -- I respect you and Victor -- if you have a defense statement I will put it out
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 08:58:21 -0800

I see an amazingly big attack against you -- that makes me suspicious.

I know you have always been on the right side in the past -- I do not necessarily trust your critics.

I am not perfect -- but I am not going to be a sucker for someone doing dirt to you and Victor.

Dick E.

 

[anart]

They went to extremes, yes...Chris bringing the kids into it and Sonny in
defaming lisa...If it would have been anyone else that Sonny Crack went after
and I knew that person to be a good one, I would have really been disgusted but
considering the source...It was "just" and funny as hell...I felt guilty for
enjoying it so much and got yelled at by my son who shamed me, too...and I
subsequently yelled at Judy Andreas for enjoying it

This is SO telling - I personally couldn't even listen to the entire Sonny Crack shows because they were so disgusting - and this woman ENJOYED them????

No normal human being could enjoy listening to that filth - this woman is beyond disturbed.

 

[foofighter]

This is SO telling - I personally couldn't even listen to the entire Sonny Crack shows because they were so disgusting - and this woman ENJOYED them????

No normal human being could enjoy listening to that filth - this woman is beyond disturbed.

Well... considering the focus on "we" all the time, and her talking to Lisa about "groups" and whatnot, would MPD be a possibility?

 

[Lisa Guliani]

The policeman couldn't stand to listen to anything beyond the first 11 minutes of the FIRST broadcast he did on me. He made me shut if off. It's too vile.
Remember, Marsha is a "christian patriot" and she enjoyed it.

Lisa

 

[Laura]

The policeman couldn't stand to listen to anything beyond the first 11 minutes of the FIRST broadcast he did on me. He made me shut if off. It's too vile.
Remember, Marsha is a "christian patriot" and she enjoyed it.

I keep telling people that deviants are deviants no matter what disguise they use: Zionists, Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Hottentots and Patriots. When Lobaczewski describes how any and all ideologies can be taken over and used as a screen for criminal behavior (and Marsha McClelland and Judy Andreas and their crowd have clearly crossed the line into criminal behavior), it explains the whole thing! See the following article for a clear explication of these types of tactics:

The thug and intimidation tactics of the Far Right go mainstream

As is true for many lawyers who have defended First Amendment free speech rights, I have represented several groups and individuals with extremist and even despicable viewpoints (in general, and for obvious reasons, it is only groups and individuals who espouse ideas considered repugnant by the majority which have their free speech rights threatened). Included among this group were several White Supremacist groups and their leaders, including one such group -- the World Church of the Creator -- whose individual members had periodically engaged in violence against those whom they considered to be the enemy (comprised of racial and religious minorities along with the "race traitors" who were perceived to defend them).

One of the favorite tactics used by such groups is to find the home address and telephone number of the latest enemy and then publish it on the Internet, accompanied by impassioned condemnations of that person as a Grave Enemy, a race traitor, someone who threatens all that is good in the world. A handful of the most extremist pro-life groups have used the same tactic. It has happened in the past that those who were the target of these sorts of demonization campaigns that included publication of their home address were attacked and even killed.

But these intimidation tactics work even when nothing happens. Indeed, these groups often publish the enemy's home address along with some cursory caveat that they are not encouraging violence. The real objective is the same one shared by all terrorists -- to place the person in paralyzing fear. The goal is to force the individual, as they lay in bed at night, to be preoccupied with worry that there is some deranged individual who read one of the websites identifying them as the enemy and which provided their address and who believes that they can strike some blow for their Just Cause by visiting their home and harming or killing them. The fear that they are vulnerable in their own home lurks so prominently and relentlessly in a person's mind that it can be as effective as a physical attack in punishing someone or intimidating them.

This thuggish tactic of intimidation -- publicly railing against someone's grave crimes and then publishing their home address -- has been creeping out of the most extremist precincts on the Right and is becoming increasingly common among mainstream right-wing individuals and organizations.

This weekend, prominent neoconservative David Horowitz proclaimed that the United States is fighting a war and "the aggressors in this war are Democrats, liberals and leftists." In particular, he cited the now infamous NYT Travel section article on Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld's vacation homes as evidence that the employees of the NYT are among the enemies in this war, and he then linked to and recommended as a "proposal for action" this post from his associate, Front Page contributor Rocco DiPippo. The post which Horowitz recommended was entitled "Where Does Punch Sulzberger Live?" and this is what it said:

I issue a call to the blogosphere to begin finding and publicly listing the addresses of all New York Times reporters and editors. Posting pictures of their residences, along with details of any security measures in place to protect the properties and their owners (such as location of security cameras and on-site security details) should also be published.

DiPippo published the home address of NYT Publisher Arthur Sulzberger, along with directions to his home, and linked to a post by right-wing blogger Dan Riehl which contained directions to Sulzberger's home along with photographers of it. In a now-deleted post, DiPippo also published the home address of Linda Spillers, the NYT photographer who took the photograph of Don Rumsfeld's vacation home (with Rumsfeld's express permission), and he urged everyone to go (presumably to the home address he provided) and confront Spillers about her actions.

That was not an isolated incident. This week, Bartholomew's Official Notes on Religion reported on the new "project" implemented by the group StopTheACLU.org. As that group describes it, the project is called "Expose the ACLU Plaintiffs," and promises to publish the home addresses of all individuals who are "using the ACLU" in any First Amendment lawsuit based on the Establishment clause which challenges the constitutionality of governmental promotion of Christianity. The first such enemy targeted for this treatment is a Jewish family in Delaware who sued their local school district over its alleged promotion of Christianity in the public schools. StopTheACLU published their home address and telephone number on its website, and the family -- due to all sorts of recriminations and fear of escalating attacks -- was forced to leave their home and move to another town, which was one of the apparent goals of StopTheACLU in publishing their home address.

Stop the ACLU is not some fringe, isolated group. To the contrary, the "official blog" of StopTheACLU.org is StopTheACLU.com (h/t Hunter), a very prominent player in the right-wing blogosphere. That blog is the 14th most-linked-to blog on the Internet, and is often promoted and approvingly cited to as a source by numerous right-wing bloggers such as Instapundit and Michelle Malkin. The blog Expose the Left (which aspires to be the C&L of the Right), yesterday condemned the "nutcases on the left side of the blososphere" who "are sending unfounded attacks" against StopTheACLU for this plainly despicable thug behavior.

These self-evidently dangerous tactics are merely a natural outgrowth of the hate-mongering bullying sessions which have become the staple of right-wing television shows such as Bill O'Reilly's and websites such as Michelle Malkin's (who, unsurprisingly, has become one of O'Reilly's favorite guests). One of the most constant features of these hate fests is the singling out of some unprotected, private individual -- a public school teacher here, a university administrator there -- who is dragged before hundreds of thousands of readers (or millions of viewers), accused of committing some grave cultural crime or identified as a subversive and an enemy, and then held out as the daily target of unbridled contempt, a symbol of all that is Evil.

Malkin frequently includes contact information for the identified Enemies, and O'Reilly often shows photographs or video of them on multiple programs. These bullying tactics of intimidation -- whereby people who are often just private individuals and who have no defenses (as opposed to, say, prominent politicians or media figures) are singled out for widespread public rituals of contempt -- have quite foreseeable consequences, chief among them placing those targets in fear of retribution. Publishing the home addresses of such individuals is not some wholly different approach, but is merely the next small and foreseeable step, an obvious outgrowth of the hate sessions on which many leading representatives of the Right now heavily rely.

And it is not only those who engage in the tactics themselves who bear responsibility for the consequences, but also those who offer coldly bureaucratic indifference towards these tactics, or even an implicit defense of them. While numerous right-wing bloggers commented this weekend on the truly inane attacks against the NYT Travel article, none (at least that I read) condemned Horowitz for promoting the campaign to publish the home addresses of editors and reporters of the Times. They had much to say about the Evil that is the NYT, but nothing to say about this extraordinary and despicable campaign perfected by extremist groups on the Right and now promoted by Horowitz and groups such as StopTheACLU, to intimidate and endanger journalists and private individuals by collecting and publishing their home addresses.

Beyond merely failing to condemn these tactics, Glenn "Instapundit" Reynolds yesterday deliberately defended them by arguing that they are no different than what the NYT did in its Travel article. Reynolds attacked a post written this weekend by Reason's Dave Weigel, in which Weigel condemned publication of the home address of the NYT photographer. Reynolds -- who pointedly avoided condemning Horowitz and publication of Spiller's home address -- quoted and then attacked Weigel's condemnation as "incoherent":

As so often happens with these things, angry bloggers have struck back and posted the addresses and phone numbers of the Times' photogs. (No link.)


No link? Why not? By Weigel's standards, a link wouldn't contribute to invasion of privacy. Anybody can find that stuff, right?

And if anybody can find that stuff, why's he so upset about publishing office phone numbers of public officials?

In order to avoid criticizing his comrades on the Right who are engaging in thug tactics, Reynolds actually equates discussion of the vacation homes of top government officials (who enjoy the most extensive and high-level security on the planet) with publication of the home addresses of private individuals and journalists (who have no security of any kind). By his reasoning, mentioning that the Vice President has a vacation home on the Eastern Shore of Maryland is no different than publishing the home address of private individuals who are publicly identified as traitors.

And, lo and behold, the Right's tactics of intimidation against private individuals are reduced by the conniving Reynolds into nothing more than a common and innocuous invasion of privacy of which the NYT and many others are also guilty. And with that corrupt equivalency established, Reynolds is able to posts on these matters without condemning the Right's thug tactics, and in fact, implicitly defends them by suggesting that they are rather innocuous and common and nothing to get excited about.

And revealingly, in choosing which villains to criticize from this weekend's treason accusations against the NYT and the thug tactics they inspired, Reynolds chooses Weigel for attack. But he has nothing to say about Horowitz and company for their newly announced campaign "to begin finding and publicly listing the addresses of all New York Times reporters and editors."

As people like Horowitz, Malkin and Reynolds well know -- and just as my most extremist former White Supremacist clients well knew -- if you throw burning matches at gasoline enough times, an explosion is inevitable. The rhetoric of treason -- accusing individuals and organizations of aiding and abetting our nation's enemies and even waging war on this country -- is a lit match. After all, the widely accepted penalty for traitors is execution, which is why it is such an inflammatory yet increasingly common accusation being hurled by the Right against their domestic "enemies" (for precisely the same reason, the favorite accusation of the World Church of the Creator was to label someone a "race traitor," since everyone knows what should be done with traitors).

Openly speculating about whether journalists and politicians are guilty of treason has become unbelievably common of late. And when those accusations are paired with publication of the traitor's home address, the intended result is both obvious and inevitable. Anyone who endorses those tactics in any way -- or who plays cute, coy games in finding ways to justify or minimize them -- knows exactly what they are doing.

As the Bush movement collapses, it is only to be expected that its more fevered adherents will resort to increasingly extremist rhetoric and tactics, out of frustration and anger, if for no other reason. The penetration of these thug tactics into increasingly mainstream venues on the Right is one of the more glaring, and more disturbing, developments of late.

As I've said before, I think we can tell from this article that the REAL "movers and shakers" behind the Revereradio bottom feeders, Rense, Jones, Marsha McClelland, Judy Andreas, et al, are undoubtedly agents of the very psychopathic totalitarianism that they claim to be against. In short, it is clear that the Zionist agenda is playing both sides in this game. They can protest all they want that they are part of the "alternative media" or "911 Truth seekers," but if they act like the very people they claim they are against, I think we can figure out that they are just the "manufactured opposition."

 

[Lisa Guliani]

I think the "alternative media and alleged 911/patriot movement" is nothing but a Cointelpro op in disguise.

In fact, I'm convinced of it.

We must be having more of an impact than we realized, Laura.

 

[the rabbit]

Well i have just come across the song You Lied written by the Signs team and performed by yours truely at http://www(dot)scholarsfor911truth(dot)org/music. It doesnt give an interactive link to my page with "Away With The Fairys, probably because it has a whopping link to the signs page and the pentagon strike video as soon as you enter the home page.Nor does it mention the Signs team who wrote it and hold the copywrite to it.

And depending where they got it from,the downloadable version from my site has tags which one can read when playing in itunes or other player. Which reads http://signs-of-the-times.org. And this one doesnt,possably removed.

Duh!