Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

[anka]

Jordan Peterson Announces Free Speech Platform ‘Thinkspot’

An upcoming free speech platform promises to provide users the best features of other social media, but without the censorship.

The subscription based “anti-censorship” platform “Thinkspot” is being created by popular psychologist Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. It’s being marketed as a free speech alternative to payment processors like Patreon in that it will “monetize creators” and as provide a social media alternative to platforms like Facebook and YouTube.

Peterson discussed Thinkspot with podcaster Joe Rogan on June 9, emphasizing a radically pro-free speech Terms of Service. He described that freedom as the “central” aspect saying, “once you're on our platform we won't take you down unless we’re ordered to by a US court of law.”

That will be a profound contrast to platforms that ban users for “misgendering” people who identify as trans, or for tweeting “learn to code” at fired journalists.

The only other major rule on comments he mentioned was that they need to be thoughtful. Rather than suggesting that some opinions are “off limits,” Peterson said they will have a minimum required length so one has to put thought into what they write.

“If minimum comment length is 50 words, you’re gonna have to put a little thought into it,” Peterson said. “Even if you’re being a troll, you’ll be a quasi-witty troll.”

All comments on the website will have a voting feature “and if your ratio of upvotes to downvotes falls below 50/50 then your comments will be hidden, people will still be able to see them, if they click, but you'll disappear.” He later added a caveat saying that was still being mulled over and that “We don't know if 50/50 is right.”

The platform, with its subscription-based service, will also directly subsidize content creators.

Peterson said that a handful of major free speech proponents including Dave Rubin, Michael Shermer are on board to be beta testers for Thinkspot.

Peterson’s daughter Mikhaila spoke encouraged podcast listeners to sign up as testers for the platform in its current beta phase, before the intended August 2019 launch.

“We’re in desperate need for a platform that doesn’t arbitrarily decide to throw people off because of random crowd mentality,” she said.

On Twitter, Peterson also called for beta testers on June 10, “Per the Joe Rogan podcast this week, I'm backing a new platform called thinkspot, currently in Beta. Get on the waitlist here, exciting announcements coming very soon. http://thinkspot.com.“

So they are going ahead with it. I signed up for the beta membership out of curiosity. I don't think that these days such a task can be accomplished easily. There are many catches. Trying to make it troll-proof is practically impossible so who knows how user friendly the platform will be. Surely it will take a lot of tuning.

But they deserve thumbs up for taking the leap.

 

[Cosmos]

Jordan Peterson Announces Free Speech Platform ‘Thinkspot’



So they are going ahead with it. I signed up for the beta membership out of curiosity. I don't think that these days such a task can be accomplished easily. There are many catches. Trying to make it troll-proof is practically impossible so who knows how user friendly the platform will be. Surely it will take a lot of tuning.

But they deserve thumbs up for taking the leap.

I‘ll likely join as well. It was time for an alternative to Patreon, Facebook, YouTube and Co. The rules they have set up so far sound quite reasonable as well and will make it harder for trolls.

Will be interesting to see how this evolves.

 

[luc]

I‘ll likely join as well. It was time for an alternative to Patreon, Facebook, YouTube and Co. The rules they have set up so far sound quite reasonable as well and will make it harder for trolls.

Will be interesting to see how this evolves.

Yes, I will follow the development as well. When I saw the initial announcement, I thought that they will have a tough time regulating such a platform using algorithms/crowd mechanisms. When you are diving into deep waters, only the human individual can handle it IMO. So they may end up with moderators etc., kind of like here on the forum. But can such a thing work on a large scale? And what about all the familiar problems such as sacred cows, emotion-driven arguments etc.? Sure will be interesting to watch this unfold, and who knows - maybe it would even make sense for some of us to engage with the platform in one way or another? I sure wish JP and gang godspeed to create something positive there.

 

[Matthew]

Yes, I will follow the development as well. When I saw the initial announcement, I thought that they will have a tough time regulating such a platform using algorithms/crowd mechanisms. When you are diving into deep waters, only the human individual can handle it IMO. So they may end up with moderators etc., kind of like here on the forum. But can such a thing work on a large scale? And what about all the familiar problems such as sacred cows, emotion-driven arguments etc.? Sure will be interesting to watch this unfold, and who knows - maybe it would even make sense for some of us to engage with the platform in one way or another? I sure wish JP and gang godspeed to create something positive there.

I believe they are going to try using upvotes and downvotes to 'police' everything but that seems to be ripe for abuse so good luck with that!

 

[Cosmos]

I believe they are going to try using upvotes and downvotes to 'police' everything but that seems to be ripe for abuse so good luck with that!

Well, somehow they have to set up a rule that regulates nonsense etc. They have to start somewhere! In this case when a certain amount of dislikes is reached, the comment will be hidden but still viewable by clicking on it. I guess by this they want to make what the public majority thinks count rather than the owner deciding what is good or bad, like it is the case on youtube and Facebook etc. A big problem we can see on many mainstream platforms where the actual BS content is not accounted for by the likes and dislikes... Many Propaganda BS videos and contents from mainstream papers for example often display a completely false content and the public down in the comment and like section reacts to that more or less correctly. Which is then suppressed by those platforms and not accounted for. I think for starters this might not be such a bad idea. I guess they will regulate and fine tune (and change) such stuff as it gets running. Learning by doing basically.

 

[Woodsman]

Well, somehow they have to set up a rule that regulates nonsense etc. They have to start somewhere! In this case when a certain amount of dislikes is reached, the comment will be hidden but still viewable by clicking on it. I guess by this they want to make what the public majority thinks count rather than the owner deciding what is good or bad, like it is the case on youtube and Facebook etc. A big problem we can see on many mainstream platforms where the actual BS content is not accounted for by the likes and dislikes... Many Propaganda BS videos and contents from mainstream papers for example often display a completely false content and the public down in the comment and like section reacts to that more or less correctly. Which is then suppressed by those platforms and not accounted for. I think for starters this might not be such a bad idea. I guess they will regulate and fine tune (and change) such stuff as it gets running. Learning by doing basically.

I always wondered why nobody uses Slashcode for their comment sections. From my experience, nobody has created a better system for hosting and moderating complex threaded discussions. The guys who first came up with it did an excellent job of anticipating the needs and pitfalls of a discussion community and creating systems to effectively meet those needs.

It's opensource, too. Check out Slashdot to see the system in action. Nearly 20 years running, hosting all kinds of dynamic, thoughtful content by earnest engineers, cranks, weirdos and lunatics, and everybody gets along with virtually zero drama; it just seems to absorb crazy and "route around damage". User-moderated, (broadly selected users, possibly chosen at random, get a few points to spend every few days to up and down vote comments), and there are filters available so you can weed out the junk very easily, but also allow people to sift through the grit at the bottom if they like. It's the most effectively democratic system I've ever seen, and it's also one of the very first. I've never worked out why it wasn't adopted universally over the years, but instead the internet labors along with hamstrung, inefficient, crazy-inducing comment systems. Go figure.

One thing I have noticed and dislike about YouTube comments is that interaction is limited, and comments themselves often look more like twitter tweets than thoughtful commentary. Slashcode, by some quirk of its feng shui seems to encourage very energetic and thoughtful engagement. I've had many very productive full-on discussions on Slashdot over the years.

Does Jordan have a suggestion box? Shoot.

 

[Matthew]

Does Jordan have a suggestion box? Shoot.

I found this: Jordan Peterson | Contact

 

[anka]

I found this: Jordan Peterson | Contact

Or you can write to this address: support@thinkspot.com.
I think it's a very good point, Woodsman.

 

[Cosmos]

I've also signed in at thinkspot. They are still in the test phase in which users will be invited according to a waitlist to test things out and fix bugs and so on.

 

[Persej]

I just saw this in the latest video from PJW:

From the rulebook for the tabletop RPG Cyberpunk 2020 (a ‘Prophecy’ for America):

“DIVERSITY AND UNITY"

It is now accepted among historical scholars that in the decades before the Collapse, America suffered from the sicknesses of racism and “cultural identity”. Everyone wanted to be seen as special. Every group had to be ”equal” to or preferably better than its neighbors, and fought to protect its ”special” rights. If anyone had something that someone else wanted, they were painted as racist, sexist, elitist or worse. This divisive ”me first” attitude eventually tore the fabric of American culture apart and caused it to self-destruct in a fireball of competing ideologies, none of which truly recognized each other’s validity. Diversity led inexorably to anarchy.

 

[Persej]

PJW made another video about the same topic:

 

[A Jay]

I signed up for Peterson's new platform as well.

One of the negative potentials for the platform that people have pointed out is the hiding of content based on community up votes or down votes which could lead to group think with all dissenting voices being down voted out of the discussion.

That is one potential. Another potential that may be more of what Peterson and the developers had in mind is that people will up vote things that they disagree with if it's written and argued well enough.

For instance, if someone can argue a point that I disagree with them on effectively such that it forces me to think about something in a new way that leads to new insights and a better understanding then I will like it or up vote it because it was beneficial to me even if I still disagree with it. I've done this on other platforms, and would continue to do so there.

So there's no guarantee that the community voting system would devolve into group think down voting of all dissenting ideas. Especially if you have a wide enough audience with plenty of people from all sides of any discussion to balance out the natural tendencies of people towards group think.

We'll see how it turns out, but I am rooting for Peterson and hope that he can pull off something positive.

 

[Cosmos]

Starting at 02:28:08 Peterson talks a bit about the pretty cool features "that no other platform has" that Thinkspot will provide. And I've to say they do indeed sound pretty revolutionary and cool, including the feature to be able to take any video clip or audio on the net and just snip out a portion of it and comment on it and put different Video clips together into your own creation. Also they will do the same thing for books, so that a sort of a collective public annotation (or knowledge input) of good books will take place.

"And so what that should mean is that every book that is sold on our platform that many people purchase will become the center of multiple conversations. And we can do that with books that are on the public domain..."

The Name is program it seems! ThinkSpot; a place to think!

 

[mabar]

The Austrian women's team did so with every intention of annoying their opponents in a friendly game, male teams behave better, is disconcerting.

Vatican women’s soccer team cancels match after opposing team protests Church’s position on abortion

UPDATE FROM THE VATICAN (8:15 local time): According to the Vatican, the decision to cancel the game was not taken by the nuncio but by the entire Vatican Women’s soccer team. The nuncio then agreed.

VIENNA, June 22, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — The Pope’s representative to Austria cancelled the Vatican women soccer team’s debut international match in Vienna today, after pro-abortion advocates from the opposing team protested the Church’s position on abortion during the Vatican anthem.

Austrian news outlets ORF and Kathpress reported on Saturday that Spanish Archbishop Pedro Lopez Quintana, apostolic nuncio to Austria, withdrew the Vatican women’s team from the game after what was expected to be a friendly match turned to protest.

“Everything took off once the [Vatican] anthem began,” ORF reported. During the anthem, members of the Austrian team (Mariahilf) pulled up their jerseys, exposing images of female reproductive organs and pro-abortion slogans painted on their stomachs and backs.
Banners reading “Against Homophobia” were simultaneously rolled out in the spectator stands.

According to the Austrian news outlet, the protest was difficult to see from the VIP tent. An official from the Vatican team informed the Nuncio about the protest. According to ORF, “a visibly emotional conversation followed, and the Nuncio left the field with his colleagues.”

A friendly handshake followed between the teams, but there was no kick-off, Kathpress reported. Instead, players from both teams were summoned to the sidelines by coaches. The crowds were then informed via loudspeaker that the Vatican team would not be competing.

Luise H., representing the players involved in the protest, told ORF that the group didn’t know there would be consequences for their actions and would have liked to play the match.

Leaflets distributed to journalists explained that the activists could not identify with the Church’s rejection of abortion and same-sex marriage.

Regretting the cancellation, Luise H. told ORF that they “were not aware that the timing of the action, during the playing of the Vatican hymn and in the presence of the apostolic nuncio, could be detrimental to the idea of sport and ruin many working weeks of preparations.”

The Vatican launched the first women’s soccer team in its history in May 2019. Composed largely of Holy See employees and family members, it debuted in a match against AS Roma’s team on May 26.

 

[anka]

I found this video where Peterson talks to an unspecified audience and really enjoyed it. J.B. talks about postmodernism and how to defeat it... well, he admits he has no answer as to how but he brings on the previously articulated suggestion to get one's life together and take care of one's own suffering to make life bearable, better than before. Everyone familiar with his work will have heard this before from him but in this particular shot Peterson is very sarcastic and funny and explains the whole thing in a very short time frame (13 minutes).

Today I have also listened for the second time to the Mind Matters show 'Analyzing Jordan Peterson's Soul - Fragment of the Divine' and it was a great show. Thanks go to Harrison, Elon and Corey. Perhaps the most significant moment for me was the part where it is stressed that when it comes to creativity and entropy, it basically is a black & white choice. Nothing in between because if you try to reap the benefits of creativity without taking the risk of failing you are ultimately choosing entropy. It might just be slower and you may spent the whole life enjoying yourself but you will end up empty and realize perhaps too late that you have done nothing to make yourself and the world better so the life was wasted. Which fits perfectly with what Peterson is saying in the video above. Stop complaining and start acting. Yeah, life is suffering but do we want to get acknowledged for our suffering or do we want to actually take responsibility for our life and change the outcome?