July 2016 Military Coup in Turkey

[Oxajil]

I'm still going through all the updates from English and Dutch sources, but I thought it was interesting that Erdogan warned the Netherlands that they "should now think about how their planes will land in Turkey." Things escalated pretty quickly, but with the elections coming up in the Netherlands and the referendum in April for Turkey, I'm guessing they're trying to win some votes by standing their ground... Maybe not, but that's one thought. Then of course, there's the bigger picture, the growing space between the EU and Turkey.

And now, although the CHP, the main opposition party, struggles with full force against the presidential referendum that will be made in April, its leaders supported AKP's fiery attitude against the European forces which resist AKP's political efforts in Europe for securing the support of Turkish citizens living in Europe for the referendum.

Do you know what the most significant outcome of the referendum would be if the majority votes 'yes'? If I understand correctly from the Wiki page, it will mean that Erdogan will get more power:

The President becomes both the head of state and head of government, with the power to appoint and sack ministers and VP. The president can issue decrees about executive.If legislation makes a law about the same topic that President issued an executive order, decree will become invalid and parliamentery law become valid.

 

[bjorb]

I'm still going through all the updates from English and Dutch sources, but I thought it was interesting that Erdogan warned the Netherlands that they "should now think about how their planes will land in Turkey." Things escalated pretty quickly, but with the elections coming up in the Netherlands and the referendum in April for Turkey, I'm guessing they're trying to win some votes by standing their ground... Maybe not, but that's one thought. Then of course, there's the bigger picture, the growing space between the EU and Turkey.

And now, although the CHP, the main opposition party, struggles with full force against the presidential referendum that will be made in April, its leaders supported AKP's fiery attitude against the European forces which resist AKP's political efforts in Europe for securing the support of Turkish citizens living in Europe for the referendum.

Do you know what the most significant outcome of the referendum would be if the majority votes 'yes'? If I understand correctly from the Wiki page, it will mean that Erdogan will get more power:

The President becomes both the head of state and head of government, with the power to appoint and sack ministers and VP. The president can issue decrees about executive.If legislation makes a law about the same topic that President issued an executive order, decree will become invalid and parliamentery law become valid.

Outsiders shouldn't intervene with elections.

That said:

Here we have Dutch politicians Hans van Baalen en Guy Verhofstad of the VVD during a rally in Kiev calling for regime chance.


- Isn't Erdogan just using every opportunity to break ties with the US/EU and get more involved in the Russian sphere of influence? Perhaps that's all what it is?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= bjorn]Outsiders shouldn't intervene with elections.[/quote]

Having Read about it more, I fail to see the fuzz about it. What's wrong for politicians to visit other countries for their own elections? Doesn't that happen all the time?

For a second I thought that they where trying to intervene in the Dutch elections since everyone seems so upset. But it is for theirs only.


I suppose the Netherlands since Erdogan fell out of play wants to undermine him best they can.

 

[bozadi]

Do you know what the most significant outcome of the referendum would be if the majority votes 'yes'? If I understand correctly from the Wiki page, it will mean that Erdogan will get more power:

The President becomes both the head of state and head of government, with the power to appoint and sack ministers and VP. The president can issue decrees about executive.If legislation makes a law about the same topic that President issued an executive order, decree will become invalid and parliamentery law become valid.

I haven't specifically examined the details of the questioned presidential authorities other than listening to a few debates about some claims by the opposition and answers given by the ruling party representatives. As you excerpted, it seems that the referendum, if "yes" wins, will give Erdogan some authorities which do not sound democratic at all. The separation of powers will be diminished or potentially lose its meaning. But the thing is, Turkey has never been actually democratic despite the presence of the separation of powers. The name and appearance of the system is not meaningful as long as it is not really a secret that the country has been under the rule or extreme pressure of the Powers That Be.

And I think that the referendum might really be helpful for Erdogan to be more effective in bureaucracy, have more rapid results with less complication especially from the legislative and the judiciary systems that contain many figures of authority with opposite or hostile attitudes towards Erdogan. It is claimed, probably rightly, that there are still many Gulenist players in the judiciary system or Kemalist ones, which Gulen appear to support for his own purposes.

So, winning of "yes" would potentially have such a positive effect of Erdogan's significant empowerment. A potential negative effect would be Erdogans' extreme misuse of those kind of extreme authorities although I'm not sure how this misuse would manifest like.

Winning of "no" can potentially humble the AKP with the opposition. It will be an empowering victory for the opposition and a cause of celebration for distinct elements of the opposition forces including Kemalists, leftists, Alevis, many Kurds, etc. This might make a positive uniting effect on them. But there are more STO-oriented and more STS-oriented aspects of opposition in each circle of them. So the "misuse" of the victory of "no" is also an important potential, which would infuriate Erdogan to various potentially illegitimate punitive measures, feeding chaos.

I think there is an interesting balance between the interests of the ruling party and the opposition elements as regards the result of the referendum. And I currently fail to confidently foresee which result would really benefit the nation more. And short term and long term results can be radically different, which also complicates the matter, I think. For instance, let's suppose that "yes" (Erdogan) wins. And then they, the AKP, misuses the new authorities for example by applying unjust taxes, investing in dangerous nuclear power facilities or other nature-killing projects, increasing oppression against opposition elements at extreme levels, supporting those sections of society which are from their own religious/political ideology and wearing away others from influential positions, intervening in the domestic affairs of other nations militarily and/or politically, etc... Even then, they might simultaneously use the same authorities also for some good causes like opposing and counteracting external political/military pressures from the US, its European allies, Israel, NATO, etc. This has been the situation for a while, I mean, they both do bad and good things kind of simultaneously and I don't think this situation can change radically any time soon. Besides, in the case the AKP does more bad rather than good things with the new authorities, then this will be a good test for the opposition. This will potentially provide them with the opportunity to unite much more among themselves and perform some giant show of influence against the ruling party like in the Gezi Park protests. And not all of the supporters of the AKP are its permanent supporters and can change sides depending on developments (I will say 10 to 20 percent of the AKP supporters can change sides depending on the appearance of the agenda).

So, personally, I'm not sure which result would benefit the nation more and I prefer to not care about it much and I tend to believe that the lively interest in the referendum in Turkey is more important than the result. The most important thing for the different ideological sections of the nation is for them to stop cursing each other and find the ways of cooperating for their common good. Despite the fact that some AKP representatives including Erdogan himself and some others dare to state that those who would vote for "no" are the enemies of the nation just like the Gulen and the PKK are (I think this claim is immoral and stupid!), that some supporters of the AKP post provocative messages (including photos of people holding guns) in the social media stating that they would "hunt" opposition members in the case "no" wins (as far as I know, such posts were removed by the government bodies after news reports and complaints were made about them), and that the police behaves badly towards some opposition groups that make pro-"no" demonstrations, there have been more relatively peaceful debates between the defenders of both votes for example through video posts in the social media that were popularized by media coverage. So, relatively peaceful interaction of opposite views might be more important than the referendum itself, I suppose. Either result will have some pros and cons about it in the short and long terms. What is of utmost importance is for people to learn more and more to respect each other despite their opposing political or religious ideologies.

In the rule of AKP, as I see it, general public's interest in the national agenda and interaction of opposing views have increased despite the great oppression and I think this is something good. It is as if people are "blowing the cobwebs away", so to say. Just more cooperation initiatives between opposing ideologies are needed. And I'm still not sure which referendum result would serve this purpose more.

 

[Oxajil]

So, personally, I'm not sure which result would benefit the nation more and I prefer to not care about it much and I tend to believe that the lively interest in the referendum in Turkey is more important than the result.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, bozadi. I think you will find today's Behind the Headlines radio show very interesting. During the last half an hour they spoke about the referendum. If I understand correctly, a 'yes' vote would be a good thing for Turkey. As has become clear, especially since the downing of the Russian jet, there is a 5th column in Turkey that operates with different goals compared to the Turkish government. Joe and Niall commented that there are two Turkeys.

If Erdogan would gain more power as a result from a majority of 'yes' votes from Turkish people living in Turkey and abroad, he will be able to take out 5th column 'players' in a better way, or at least be better able to prevent them from organizing another coup. Seeing that the EU would not like that (as they were clearly hoping for the previous coup to succeed), all this business about preventing Turkey to campaign in their country could be an attempt to thwart Erdogan from gaining more power. I think they're going to fail, because it will only make Erdogan supporters support him even more! FWIW.

 

[bozadi]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, bozadi. I think you will find today's Behind the Headlines radio show very interesting. During the last half an hour they spoke about the referendum. If I understand correctly, a 'yes' vote would be a good thing for Turkey. As has become clear, especially since the downing of the Russian jet, there is a 5th column in Turkey that operates with different goals compared to the Turkish government. Joe and Niall commented that there are two Turkeys.

If Erdogan would gain more power as a result from a majority of 'yes' votes from Turkish people living in Turkey and abroad, he will be able to take out 5th column 'players' in a better way, or at least be better able to prevent them from organizing another coup. Seeing that the EU would not like that (as they were clearly hoping for the previous coup to succeed), all this business about preventing Turkey to campaign in their country could be an attempt to thwart Erdogan from gaining more power. I think they're going to fail, because it will only make Erdogan supporters support him even more! FWIW.

Thank you for the suggestion, Oxajil. It must be the show entitled "Vault 7, Year Zero, WikiLeaks: CIA Exposed Doing Things the CIA Is Known To Do". I think its archival copy will be ready in 24 hours. I want to listen to it, especially the part about the referendum.

 

[happyliza]

I don't think Erdogan and the AKP party having more power in Turkey is a good thing at all. There is a far bigger picture that has been missed here. Plus the fact he intends to de- secularize what little free speech is left and totally oppress the gullible people there. The Erdogan of now is not the Erdogan that put money in people's pockets during his rise of power.

The bigger picture for neo Ottoman empire of the 'sultan' and all his ruses to beguile people is so apparent here on talking to the media blinded people here., Just today a good friend of mine just could and would not see where this is going and is so pro Erdogan it is scary. Yes he has the sheep totally corralled now, Yes they helped him during the coup but remember the tale of the one who told the sheep to trust him!!!

As you see in the post above I live in North Cyprus and the power of Erdogan has reached here to such an extent that our free speech has also been eroded - and here was a very secular country!!! Also much money is coming over from Turkey here now as people are bailing out and investing i property like no other property boom i have ever witnessed in the whole world. Very telling!

For someone who pivots his allegiances and changes with the wind as well as knowing all the actions he has made so far as well as the reasons behind his push for dictatorship it would be wise to not be led by the man on the street/media!! There is deep machinations going on that are totally evil imho.

I strongly recommend reading all three parts of the following articles to understand a fraction of the wider plans. Otherwise people are only promoting Erdogan's agenda without realizing it!! Sadly the Turkish peeps here are also brainwashed and we have had visits for pro referendum from top government officials in Turkey spouting lies to the Turks here too.

Please read: Parts 1, 2 and 3: http://katehon.com/article/global-blueprint-neo-ottomanism-opportunities-and-challenges-part-iii

 

[happyliza]

Also this article posted by Sott today spells out the control elements of Turkey and unrest in the Middle East agenda.

https://www.sott.net/article/345066-Russia-China-Iran-The-strategic-triangle-that-is-changing-the-world

Islamic terrorism, a source for cooperation.

The common source of instability for the Eurasian continent stems from Islamic terrorism, deployed as an instrument of division and conflict. In this sense, the Saudi and Turkish role in nurturing and spreading Wahhabism as well as the Muslim Brotherhood means that they are directly opposed to the stability of the Chinese, Russian and Iranian sphere. With the full financial support of China, and military support of Russia, Tehran's role in the region unsurprisingly becomes decisive. Iran is the country in which Sino-Russian influence is manifested at all levels in the region and beyond. The deterioration of the military situation in Syria has nevertheless obliged Moscow to intervene militarily in support of Syria, a key regional ally of Iran, but also provided a perfect way to counter Saudi-Turkish influence in the region. The growing Shia crescent linking Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon is vital for retaining the influence of a multipolar world in the region. Washington has thus far been able to dictate matters through the actions of Saudi Arabia and Turkey, its regional cat's paws, whose interests often align with that of Zionist elements, neoconservative and Wahhabi, that exist within the US deep state. Of course, Washington seeks to preserve the unipolar world order through its regional allies, aiming to remain the ultimate arbiter of Middle Eastern affairs, an area reverberating with instability from the Persian Gulf to North Africa.

 

[bjorb]

Perhaps it helps if his supporters in the Netherlands doesn't condemn Wilders and his supporters as nazi's well at the same time waving Turkish flags, confessing their hatred about the Netherlands, and screaming Allah Ahkbar at the same time. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvmUUFeFPNA)I can assure them that this doesn't sit well with the indigenous population at all. And why would it. And I can also assure them that this is really irresponsible behavior. Over a few days we might have a new PM who actually wants to criminalize Islam, and those fools are screaming Allah Ahkbar at the hearth in a Dutch city. Guess who will be knocking on their door if Wilders is actually successful in his promises.

Seems that Erdogan aggressive form of expressing himself is leading by example. Perhaps they should take note how Putin or Lavrov handle such situations when they think they have been treated unfairly.

 

[bozadi]

I don't think Erdogan and the AKP party having more power in Turkey is a good thing at all. There is a far bigger picture that has been missed here.
...
I strongly recommend reading all three parts of the following articles to understand a fraction of the wider plans. Otherwise people are only promoting Erdogan's agenda without realizing it!! Sadly the Turkish peeps here are also brainwashed and we have had visits for pro referendum from top government officials in Turkey spouting lies to the Turks here too.

I think I understand your concern and consider it relatively legitimate but I also think that you are exaggerating the neo-Ottomanism issue probably in connection with a counter ideological identification. How do you relate the neo-Ottoman threat to the bigger or biggest threat as you see it? What is its place in the plans of the PTB?

Just as you reference, there is the growing or strengthening Shia crescent under the lead of Iran, relatively supported by two other super powers of Russia and China, and these make it outright impossible for a new Ottoman empire to form forcefully in the Middle East, especially considering that the US and allies are not on good terms with Erdogan, either. The AKP sees that it cannot even create a new little Ottoman State in Turkey, let alone in a greater part of Middle East. I think that the possibility of establishment of a neo-Persia is higher. And it appears to me that Erdogan's Ottoman fantasies are strongly influenced, even caused, to some extent, by Iran's extraordinary initiatives in the region.

We saw how Erdogan's Ottoman initiatives collapsed one by one in Palestine, Egypt, Syria and most recently in Iraq very scandalously. The Syrian defeat was the gravest one and Russia was the greatest reason for the defeat, and Erdogan now goes to bigger and bigger cooperation and "alliance" with that Russia and its allies and at the same time distances itself from the US and allies! And you seem to be very unwilling to acknowledge and appreciate this.

Yes, there has been a great deal of oppression by the AKP on all opposition groups, and this is very condemnable, but opposition does not always mean "good" or "better" especially considering the bigger picture of the armageddon! "For whatever reason", Erdogan's AKP gradually shifts Turkey's alignment from the US to the Russian led bloc and THIS is what counts the most in the bigger picture. At least, there is such an apparent tendency, which deserves to be examined and taken seriously as a potential. Erdogan's innumerable failures in many different areas indicate that he doesn't possess the knowledge, awareness and power that Putin does. And Erdogan's subsequent alignment with Putin was normally an "impossible" development considering the background of his ideological identity. Members of his religious/political ideology has always hated Russia much more than they hated the US although they have always known perfectly that it is the US that has been terrorizing the Islamic Middle East. So most members of that ideology have been in the grip of such a inglorious corruption because of the US control on them! In the escalation of the Syrian war, this corruption was extremely active, because the US promised them victory. And upon the painful defeat, Erdogan did something which his ideological society would NEVER do by distancing from the US and nearing Russia. Erdogan is revolutionizing the Islamic community in Turkey that he leads.

And guess what, the ostentatiously secularist Kemalist community of Turkey, which is maybe the most active opponent and detester of Erdogan's Islamic AKP, have never displayed the same determined reaction and opposition to the US and allies which they have been displaying against the AKP adamantly (considering exceptions and rules)! And they are at the same time so proud of being the followers of Ataturk, the great heroic anti-imperialist establisher of the nation! The Kemalist political party, the CHP, and the Kemalist Army, the Turkish Armed Forces, have long been in COOPERATION with those demonic imperialist global group of psychopaths! And that's why those on the top (and behind the curtain) of these great national Kemalist organizations have suppressed and manipulated the Kemalist public base to silence and indifference to the satanic US-Israeli claw inside the flesh of the nation. And very ironically, what they should have done for long is now pioneered by the Islamic political group that they have been programmed to hate from with an extreme political/ideological charge!

Yes, Erdogan's AKP has many sins, too, but not probably more sinful than the iron-handed Kemalist (or pseudo-Kemalist) political and military organizations that have long cooperated with the global psychopaths to torture and suck the blood of the entire nation for decades! As I say, the AKP did the same, their religious/political group did the same, they have long been in cooperation with the PTB but now there is a turn of fate led by Erdogan and this is extremely valuable for the nation. And this will also provide true Kemalists with an opportunity to clean their karma by cooperating with Erdogan in this regard. I don't mean that either Kemalists or any other opposition group should agree with the AKP in all matters. Let me just say that I'm personally PROUD with the legendary Gezi Park Protests! And I might very well decide to cast a "no" vote in the referendum, but this is not the whole picture. No need to blindly attacking everything about Erdogan's AKP. Self-criticism is much needed.

 

[angelburst29]

The whole aim at promoting support for Turkey's referendum on constitutional changes among Turkish expat communities in other Countries - is to greatly expand the powers of Erdogan's presidency. I agree with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte's statements, "The Dutch public space is not the place to conduct another country's political campaign." And "The Turkish government keeps talking about Turkish citizens in the Netherlands… These are Dutch citizens."

I may be interpreting this wrong and the way I see Turkey, Erdogan specifically, using the excuse of "referendum" in other Countries, like the Netherlands, Germany and France, to name a few and using the Turkish Consulate's in these Countries, as a pivotal point of control - to enforce it's own "authority and demands" over the host Country and citizens. Turkey may own a small piece of real estate, that the Consulate occupies but it doesn't grant "privileges to interfere in the governing process or Constitutional Laws" of that Country. It's like Erdogan is over stepping his boundaries and exerting control in power plays and Empire building for his own interests?

In a sense, Erdogan is using the Consulate and the referendum as a tool, in the first stages into a "silent Coup" of occupying and controlling a part of that Country? The next stage would be "partitioning and claiming the land that the Turkish expat's have settled in," as part of the Turkish Republic? Look at what is transpiring in Cyprus, due to Turkey's intervention. Namely, that Cyprus was partitioned in 1974, when Turkey occupied the island's north, later proclaiming it as the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). Cyprus does not recognize the TRNC, even though Turkey placed a military base there.
This situation is now replicating itself in Syria. Erdogan wants to absorb northern Syria into "the greater Turkey" in a land grab. The Turkish military are ready to attack the Kurds in Manbij, to accomplish that but Russian and the Syrian military are blocking Erdogan's advances.

Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim stated that the decision to legislate the commemoration day of the 1950 referendum, in which voters chose the union with Greece, undermined the negotiations, adding that the failure of talks would not affect Turkey or Turkish part of Cyprus.

Turkish PM Accuses Greek Cypriots of Insincerity During Reconciliation Talks
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201703111051485726-cyprus-negotiations-yildirim/

Greek Cypriots have been insincere since the beginning of the talks on reconciliation between the two parts of Cyprus, Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said Saturday.

"In my opinion, the Greek Cypriots were never sincere from the beginning. They regard the Turkish Cypriots as a minority. How will you establish a bi-communal, equal and fair government if you regard one part as a minority?," Yildirim said in an interview with the Hurriyet newspaper.

The prime minister stressed that the decision to legislate the commemoration day of the 1950 referendum, in which voters chose the union with Greece, undermined the negotiations, adding that the failure of talks would not affect Turkey or Turkish part of Cyprus.

The latest round of Cyprus reconciliation talks on February 16 ended abruptly, with the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots blaming each other for the early departure.

Cyprus has been partitioned since 1974, when Turkey occupied the island's north, later proclaiming the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) there. The TRNC is recognized only by Turkey, which maintains its military presence there.

Turkish Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya, who was expelled from the Netherlands yesterday as the row between her country and the Dutch escalates, called her treatment at Dutch hands "ugly."

Turkish Family Minister Complains of 'Rough' and 'Ugly' Treatment in Netherlands
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703121051509450-turkish-minister-ugly-treatment/

Kaya had traveled to the Netherlands by land to attempt to meet with Turks at her country's consulate in Rotterdam after the Turkish foreign minister's plane was denied permission to land in Dutch territory. Hours after entering the country, Kaya was escorted back to the border.

"We were subjected to rude and tough treatment… Treating a female minister this way is very ugly," she told reporters after she landed in Istanbul, DW reported.

As a minister holding a diplomatic passport, I don't have to get permission to come together with our citizens at our consulate, which is considered Turkish territory," said Kaya.

Dutch police blocked Kaya from entering the consulate in Rotterdam, where hundreds of protesters had gathered. Twelve were eventually arrested after tensions boiled over and some protesters threw rocks and bottles at police. Dutch police, some on horseback, used water cannons and their batons to disperse the crowd.

The Dutch government said it told Turkey the minister would not be able to enter.

Kaya's trip, as well as the aborted visit of Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, was intended to rally support for a referendum in Turkey next month that will greatly expand the powers of the presidency, currently held by Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who has ruled the country for more than 13 years, 11 as prime minister and two so far as president. Until now, the presidency has been a largely ceremonial role.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte had said he found it inappropriate for foreign governments to be addressing Dutch citizens. "The Dutch public space is not the place to conduct another country's political campaign," he said in a Dutch-language Facebook post about a week ago.

Several European countries have called off rallies to drum up support for the referendum among Turkish expats. Before traveling to the Netherlands, both Dutch and German authorities had cancelled some of Kaya's meetings.

Despite several phone calls with his counterpart, Turkish Prime Minister Benali Yildirim, the situation has not calmed, with the Irish Times reporting that
Rutte finally said, "The Turkish government keeps talking about Turkish citizens in the Netherlands… These are Dutch citizens."

Now, Erdogan has called the Dutch "Nazis" and "fascists" and both he and Yildirim have threatened sanctions on the Netherlands. Rutte has called the comments "crazy" and said his country cannot do business with Turkey if they resort to "blackmail," referring to the threatened sanctions.

Ankara sent two diplomatic notes to Amsterdam after falling out over a ban on Turkish ministers holding meetings with the country's expats in the Netherlands, Turkish media reported Monday.

Ankara Sends 2 Diplomatic Notes to Amsterdam Over Ban of Turkish Ministers
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201703131051519621-turkey-notes-netherlands/

According to the Hurriyet Daily newspaper, the first note criticized the treatment of Turkish Family and Social Affairs Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya, who on Saturday was denied entrance to the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam after a visit to Germany, with Dutch police blocking her car.

The second note reportedly expressed concern over what it called "disproportionate" response of the Dutch police to the peaceful gathering of the protesters in front of the Rotterdam consulate.

The note added that Ankara was expecting an official apology from Amsterdam for actions that it deemed incompatible with diplomatic protocols and international law, the newspaper reported.

The Dutch authorities declared Kaya "an undesirable alien" after calling off her campaign meetings and had the police escort her to Germany.

Thomas de Maiziere spoke out against campaigns by Turkish ministers among immigrants in Germany.

German Interior Minister Speaks Out Against Turkish Campaigns
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703121051510447-german-interior-minister-against-turkish/

German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere spoke out on Sunday against campaigns by Turkish ministers among immigrants in Germany as a rally ban row between Ankara and EU states escalates.

“Turkish campaigns have no place here in Germany,” de Maiziere told ARD broadcaster, adding that there were “clear limits” such as “insulting Germany or its constitutional order.”

Earlier in March, Ankara accused Berlin of blocking several rallies across Germany aimed at promoting support for Turkey's referendum on constitutional changes among Turkish expat community. Commenting on the restrictions, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Germany's activities were "no different to those of the Nazi period." The office of German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that such statements were "uncalled-for and unjustifiable."

Turkey must apologize for comparing the Dutch government and Nazis, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said.

Dutch Prime Minister Demands Apology From Turkey Over Nazi Remarks
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703131051512626-dutch-pm-demands-turkey-apology/

On Saturday, Dutch authorities refused to let Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, who was expected to meet with the Turkish expats in the Netherlands, land over security concerns. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan labeled the Dutch authorities' behavior as "Nazism."

"Turkey should apologize for comparing the Dutch with the Nazis," Rutte told reporters Sunday, as quoted by Deutsche Welle broadcaster.

Marine Le Pen of the National Front on Monday urged to cancel Turkish political rallies.

Marine Le Pen Urges Cancellation of Turkish Campaign Rallies
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201703131051513077-marine-le-pen-turke-rellies/

French presidential candidate Marine Le Pen of the National Front on Monday urged to cancel Turkish political rallies, aimed at gathering support from Turkish expats for a constitutional change, in France.

On Sunday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu was allowed to hold a campaign meeting with Turkish expats in France's northeastern city of Metz. [/

Why should we accept the proposals on our land that other democracies rejected? No Turkish election campaign in France," Le Pen posted on her official Twitter account.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author= Angelburst]The whole aim at promoting support for Turkey's referendum on constitutional changes among Turkish expat communities in other Countries - is to greatly expand the powers of Erdogan's presidency. I agree with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte's statements, "The Dutch public space is not the place to conduct another country's political campaign." And "The Turkish government keeps talking about Turkish citizens in the Netherlands… These are Dutch citizens."[/quote]

They consider themselves Turkish first and foremost. But the thing is that when everytime Erdogan opens his mouth, some of his people here start to riot which is unacceptable.

If you are convinced that you are living in Nazi Germany? Why stay? If you are so patriotic than why did you leave?

I would very much like them to leave out of their own free will because this is exactly what Wilders need, and at the same time they are ruining it for the vast-majority of immigrants who have nothing more than the best of intentions. Shouting Allah Akbar in the hearth of one of our biggest city terrifies people. They really have no idea how that comes across.

Also Erdogan is such a fool when it comes to handling western politicians, They know how to carry their mask very well. So whatever the situation is, if you start with making threats. You will always be the sore loser because it makes you appear as being the unreasonable party.

It seems that mainly only Russian politicians for the most part know how to react strategic and tactful to there western counterparts.


- On another note, perhaps Erdogan reacts as he does because he wants the Turkish people to give up on the idea of the EU?


[quote author= Angelburst29]This situation is now replicating itself in Syria. Erdogan wants to absorb northern Syria into "the greater Turkey" in a land grab. The Turkish military are ready to attack the Kurds in Manbij, to accomplish that but Russian and the Syrian military are blocking Erdogan's advances.[/quote]

I doubt that Turkey is going for a land grab. Erdogan can't tell his true intentions I think because it seems that the FSA (Free Syrian Amry) and Turkey are cooperating against ISIS at this moment. But the FSA in truth are just another bunch of radicals. If Erdogan starts to openly play nice with Assad, they might turn against him. Erdogan's situation seems really complicated and I wonder how he is going to get out of this mess. OSIT.

 

[angelburst29]

Ankara has banned the Dutch ambassador from entering Turkey and suspended all high-level political discussions with the Netherlands, Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmuş announced Monday.

Ankara Bans Dutch Ambassador, Halts Diplomatic Flights, High-Level Meetings
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201703131051545433-ankara-bans-dutch-ambassador/

According to Kurtulmuş, Ankara had decided to halt all high-level political discussions with the Netherlands in an ongoing political spat.

"The Turkish Council of Ministers has decided to bar the Dutch ambassador from returning to Turkey," Daily Sabah quoted Kurtulmuş as saying.

"We have decided not to allow Turkey-bound Dutch diplomatic flights," Kurtulmuş added.

Turkish-EU relations are experiencing a noticeable slump amid several European countries’ refusal to let Turkish officials organize demonstrations supporting the constitutional amendments that will be subject to the referendum scheduled for April 16 and, if adopted, will give more powers to country’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The Turkish government has said it will formally complain to the United Nations, the Council of Europe and the Organization of Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), alleging the Netherlands has breached the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations over the Turkish referendum saga.

United Nations, NATO, EU and Council of Europe in Turkey Crisis Spin
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703141051571749-un-turkey-netherlands-nato/

Relations between Ankara and its EU neighbors have been under strain for over a year, but have been worsened over recent weeks ahead of the referendum being held in Turkey, April 16, under which President Recep Tayyip Erdogan could emerge with more grip on power.

The amendments to the constitution include the introduction of an executive presidency that would replace the existing parliamentary system of government and the abolition of the Office of the Prime Minister. It follows protests against clampdowns on opposition and the media.

However, attempts by Erdogan's supporters to hold rallies in support of him in the Netherlands — where there is a significant population of Turks eligible to vote — have been met with opposition from the Dutch Government, which has prevented Turkish ministers from speaking at them.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, March 10, banned the Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu from entering his country, deepening the diplomatic row. Cavusoglu had planned to travel to the Netherlands to address rallies of Turkish citizens.

Turkish Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya was stopped by Dutch security forces, March 11, while on her way to the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam where she was due to meet representatives of the Turkish community.

"What happened on that night is a clear violation of the Vienna Convention. All these three organizations [UN, Council of Europe and the OSCE] acknowledge the Vienna Convention as the basis of conducting diplomatic relations. They should have a say on the Netherlands' clear breach of this convention," a diplomatic source told the Hurriyet Daily News, March 13.

Diplomatic Spat - The situation worsened March 13, when Turkey banned the Dutch ambassador from returning to Turkey and all diplomatic ties between the two countries were called off.

There is a similar standoff between Turkey and Germany after a series of similar rallies have been called off by the authorities, citing security issues.

The Dutch are holding elections, March 15, and the issue of Islamophobia and immigration has played a central role, with right-wing leader Geert Wilders riding high in the polls, although Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte has gained political points by his tough stand against the Turkish rallies.

The Netherlands, Germany and Turkey are all NATO partners and its Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, has called on Turkey and its EU allies to drop the political spat.

"Robust debate is at the heart of our democracy but so is also mutual respect. Therefore, I will encourage all allies to show mutual respect, to be calm and have a measured approach… to defuse tensions and de-escalate the situation," Stoltenberg said at a news conference March 13.

 

[angelburst29]

The Turkish government has said it will formally complain to the United Nations, the Council of Europe and the Organization of Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), alleging the Netherlands has breached the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations over the Turkish referendum saga.

United Nations, NATO, EU and Council of Europe in Turkey Crisis Spin
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703141051571749-un-turkey-netherlands-nato/

Relations between Ankara and its EU neighbors have been under strain for over a year, but have been worsened over recent weeks ahead of the referendum being held in Turkey, April 16, under which President Recep Tayyip Erdogan could emerge with more grip on power.

The amendments to the constitution include the introduction of an executive presidency that would replace the existing parliamentary system of government and the abolition of the Office of the Prime Minister. It follows protests against clampdowns on opposition and the media.

However, attempts by Erdogan's supporters to hold rallies in support of him in the Netherlands — where there is a significant population of Turks eligible to vote — have been met with opposition from the Dutch Government, which has prevented Turkish ministers from speaking at them.

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, March 10, banned the Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu from entering his country, deepening the diplomatic row. Cavusoglu had planned to travel to the Netherlands to address rallies of Turkish citizens.

Turkish Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya was stopped by Dutch security forces, March 11, while on her way to the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam where she was due to meet representatives of the Turkish community.

"What happened on that night is a clear violation of the Vienna Convention. All these three organizations [UN, Council of Europe and the OSCE] acknowledge the Vienna Convention as the basis of conducting diplomatic relations. They should have a say on the Netherlands' clear breach of this convention," a diplomatic source told the Hurriyet Daily News, March 13.

Diplomatic Spat - The situation worsened March 13, when Turkey banned the Dutch ambassador from returning to Turkey and all diplomatic ties between the two countries were called off.

There is a similar standoff between Turkey and Germany after a series of similar rallies have been called off by the authorities, citing security issues.

The Dutch are holding elections, March 15, and the issue of Islamophobia and immigration has played a central role, with right-wing leader Geert Wilders riding high in the polls, although Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte has gained political points by his tough stand against the Turkish rallies.

The Netherlands, Germany and Turkey are all NATO partners and its Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, has called on Turkey and its EU allies to drop the political spat.

Robust debate is at the heart of our democracy but so is also mutual respect. Therefore, I will encourage all allies to show mutual respect, to be calm and have a measured approach… to defuse tensions and de-escalate the situation," Stoltenberg said at a news conference March 13.

The Turks living in Germany will be allowed to vote in the Turkish referendum on an executive presidency, a German Foreign Ministry spokesman confirmed Wednesday.

Turkish Expats in Germany Will Vote in Referendum on Stronger Presidency
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703151051609228-turkey-expats-germany/

This is despite a spat between Berlin and Ankara over bans on rallies by Turkish ministers who wanted to drum up support for the constitutional change among 1.4 million eligible Turkish voters there.

Ministry spokesman Martin Schaefer said the ballot must be conducted by the rules or else Germany would withdraw it permit, according to the Tagesspiegel daily.

Turkish voters will be allowed to cast votes for two weeks between March 27 and April 9 at 13 polling stations across Germany. The referendum in Turkey is slated for April 16. Turks will decide on whether they want to grant the president sweeping new powers.

German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said on Tuesday the Turkish accusations that Germany is supporting terrorism are absurd and aimed at portraying Turkey as a victim in order to increase solidarity of the country’s population.

German Minister Says Ankara Accusations Aimed at Portraying Turkey as Victim
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201703141051574235-germany-turkey-accusations/

He also said that the German politicians and society should not react on the Turkish "provocations" with new provocations.

These accusations are absurd, they have no real ground, they have only one goal – to portray Turkey as a victim, they are aimed at causing the solidarity effect by people, who may still oppose the coming referendum," de Maiziere told journalists.

"These are Turkish internal debates," de Maiziere said.

Earlier in March, Ankara accused Berlin of blocking several rallies across Germany aimed at promoting support for Turkey's referendum among Turkish community. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Germany's decision to ban certain pre-referendum rallies were "no different to those of the Nazi period." German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel rejected Erdogan's accusations, adding that open and friendly relations with Turkey remain Germany's objective.

On Monday, Erdogan accused German Chancellor Angela Merkel of supporting terrorism.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan labeled the Dutch authorities "Nazi remnants" and "fascists" for revoking the landing permission for Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, who was expected to meet with the Turkish expats in the Netherlands.

'Nazi Remnants, Fascists': Erdogan Goes Ballistic Amid This Step by Netherlands
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201703111051480887-erdogan-netherlands-nazi-remnants-fascists/

Dutch authorities revoked the landing permission for the Turkish foreign minister amid security concerns, the Anadolu news agency reported on Saturday.

Earlier in the day, Cavusoglu threatened the Netherlands with sanctions, in case the Dutch authorities prevent him from meeting with Turkish expats.

Nearly two-thirds of German citizens want their government to suspend its negotiations on Turkey's joining the European Union, a poll showed Wednesday.

Over 60% of Germans Support End of Turkey-EU Accession Talks - Poll
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703151051597764-germany-turkey-accession-eu/

According to results of the poll conducted by the Insa research institute for the German Bild newspaper, 64.2 percent of respondents approved of halting the accession negotiations, while 11.9 percent were in support of resuming the talks. The remainder of those polled abstained from answering.

The relations between Berlin and Ankara deteriorated after Turkish-German journalist Deniz Yucel was arrested in Istanbul in February on charges of participation in a terror organization, misuse of data, and terrorism propaganda. The situation was aggravated when, in early March, Turkish Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag was barred from speaking to Germany's local Turkish community ahead of the Turkish referendum on constitutional amendments. The move prompted strong criticism from Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who compared Berlin to Nazi authorities.

Turkey, along with Albania, Macedonia, Serbia, and Montenegro, is currently a candidate for EU membership. The country's eligibility for candidacy was declared in 1997.

The Turkish referendum on constitutional amendments, which will enhance the judiciary and legislative powers of the Turkish president, is scheduled for April 16.

 

[bjorb]

'Nazi Remnants, Fascists': Erdogan Goes Ballistic Amid This Step by Netherlands
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201703111051480887-erdogan-netherlands-nazi-remnants-fascists/

Dutch authorities revoked the landing permission for the Turkish foreign minister amid security concerns, the Anadolu news agency reported on Saturday.

Earlier in the day, Cavusoglu threatened the Netherlands with sanctions, in case the Dutch authorities prevent him from meeting with Turkish expats.

Could Edrogan just please stop campaigning for Wilders. All of his crazy tantrums are in favor of him.

What amazes me is that Erdogan has the moral highground here and still manages to screw it all up:

1: No campaigns are allowed in Europe, his yes campaign are not
2: Dutch politicans travel abroad all the time to gain support from expats so why block Turkish politicians.

That's all he had to say. But instead he goes all ballstic and ruins it all.

No wonder the C's said that he is crazy, but at least he is not a psychopath… But he sure aids in the further polarization of the Netherlands with his idiotic tantrums. I swear, if Wilders wins, Erdogan should take a look in the mirror. I sincerely hope that he is going to give his evidence of western ISIS support to Wikileaks. Because any public appearance he makes is counterproductive.

It's just to easy to demonize this guy. Just copy and paste some of the things he says and it's a done deal.