happyliza
The Living Force
bozadi said:happyliza said:I don't think Erdogan and the AKP party having more power in Turkey is a good thing at all. There is a far bigger picture that has been missed here.
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I strongly recommend reading all three parts of the following articles to understand a fraction of the wider plans. Otherwise people are only promoting Erdogan's agenda without realizing it!! Sadly the Turkish peeps here are also brainwashed and we have had visits for pro referendum from top government officials in Turkey spouting lies to the Turks here too.
I think I understand your concern and consider it relatively legitimate but I also think that you are exaggerating the neo-Ottomanism issue probably in connection with a counter ideological identification. How do you relate the neo-Ottoman threat to the bigger or biggest threat as you see it? What is its place in the plans of the PTB?
Just as you reference, there is the growing or strengthening Shia crescent under the lead of Iran, relatively supported by two other super powers of Russia and China, and these make it outright impossible for a new Ottoman empire to form forcefully in the Middle East, especially considering that the US and allies are not on good terms with Erdogan, either. The AKP sees that it cannot even create a new little Ottoman State in Turkey, let alone in a greater part of Middle East. I think that the possibility of establishment of a neo-Persia is higher. And it appears to me that Erdogan's Ottoman fantasies are strongly influenced, even caused, to some extent, by Iran's extraordinary initiatives in the region.
We saw how Erdogan's Ottoman initiatives collapsed one by one in Palestine, Egypt, Syria and most recently in Iraq very scandalously. The Syrian defeat was the gravest one and Russia was the greatest reason for the defeat, and Erdogan now goes to bigger and bigger cooperation and "alliance" with that Russia and its allies and at the same time distances itself from the US and allies! And you seem to be very unwilling to acknowledge and appreciate this.
Yes, there has been a great deal of oppression by the AKP on all opposition groups, and this is very condemnable, but opposition does not always mean "good" or "better" especially considering the bigger picture of the armageddon! "For whatever reason", Erdogan's AKP gradually shifts Turkey's alignment from the US to the Russian led bloc and THIS is what counts the most in the bigger picture. At least, there is such an apparent tendency, which deserves to be examined and taken seriously as a potential. Erdogan's innumerable failures in many different areas indicate that he doesn't possess the knowledge, awareness and power that Putin does. And Erdogan's subsequent alignment with Putin was normally an "impossible" development considering the background of his ideological identity. Members of his religious/political ideology has always hated Russia much more than they hated the US although they have always known perfectly that it is the US that has been terrorizing the Islamic Middle East. So most members of that ideology have been in the grip of such a inglorious corruption because of the US control on them! In the escalation of the Syrian war, this corruption was extremely active, because the US promised them victory. And upon the painful defeat, Erdogan did something which his ideological society would NEVER do by distancing from the US and nearing Russia. Erdogan is revolutionizing the Islamic community in Turkey that he leads.
And guess what, the ostentatiously secularist Kemalist community of Turkey, which is maybe the most active opponent and detester of Erdogan's Islamic AKP, have never displayed the same determined reaction and opposition to the US and allies which they have been displaying against the AKP adamantly (considering exceptions and rules)! And they are at the same time so proud of being the followers of Ataturk, the great heroic anti-imperialist establisher of the nation! The Kemalist political party, the CHP, and the Kemalist Army, the Turkish Armed Forces, have long been in COOPERATION with those demonic imperialist global group of psychopaths! And that's why those on the top (and behind the curtain) of these great national Kemalist organizations have suppressed and manipulated the Kemalist public base to silence and indifference to the satanic US-Israeli claw inside the flesh of the nation. And very ironically, what they should have done for long is now pioneered by the Islamic political group that they have been programmed to hate from with an extreme political/ideological charge!
Yes, Erdogan's AKP has many sins, too, but not probably more sinful than the iron-handed Kemalist (or pseudo-Kemalist) political and military organizations that have long cooperated with the global psychopaths to torture and suck the blood of the entire nation for decades! As I say, the AKP did the same, their religious/political group did the same, they have long been in cooperation with the PTB but now there is a turn of fate led by Erdogan and this is extremely valuable for the nation. And this will also provide true Kemalists with an opportunity to clean their karma by cooperating with Erdogan in this regard. I don't mean that either Kemalists or any other opposition group should agree with the AKP in all matters. Let me just say that I'm personally PROUD with the legendary Gezi Park Protests! And I might very well decide to cast a "no" vote in the referendum, but this is not the whole picture. No need to blindly attacking everything about Erdogan's AKP. Self-criticism is much needed.
I agree with some of the extra information you have provided above. I have to say that I am not blindly attacking everything about Erdogan because I have obviously been following things very closely over the last 10 years. I have much reason to do so living in Cyprus - as much of what happens in Turkey has a knock on effect here. Also much of my information comes from all the Sott articles, Podcasts, and the forum threads - including information on a local basis here from all nationalities - including Kurds.
I think Sott has a very good take on the situation in the area - including the theft of oil etc etc.
Also it has been noted by many people that he is playing a dangerous game and is not to be trusted by either side - as he pivots from one to the other - most probably a game of manipulation whatever.
Prior to your reply gdpetti actually duplicated what I had in mind whilst writing my reply - together with the 3 articles that were recently posted by katehon. He wrote them in this Sott article: https://www.sott.net/article/345158-The-Bigger-Picture-Whats-Behind-the-Souring-Relationship-Between-Turkey-and-The-Netherlands
I quote gdpetti here:
Erdo's ego is a beautiful thing to behold... it just keeps growing like Jack's beanstalk. Good thing Putin knows to keep his distance as this guy seems to be ready to dive into the deep end and fast.... he simply can' help himself it seems.... addiction does that.
That said, he's still useful in the 'divide and conquer' pattern in Europe, but surely his wetdreams of a New Ottoman Empire are getting the best of him... does he think he can expose NATO's lies and deceptions in arming, training and taking care of those terrorists without having even more fingers pointed at him? He doesn't seem to have learned from Jordan's example of keeping a low profile when participating on these regime change ops... he hasn't yet learned that he can't have it both ways...but he soon will... same way they all do, as it seems the only way they learn... but the same goes for all of us initially, so why shouldn't Erdo get his fill of the cup? And 'his' people as well, not much different in Greece.. assuming they had a real election... they are all bumping up against that wall of reality and finding it most unpleasant.
Niall He's talked about this for the last few years, it's no secret... his expansion plans for the region, to reestablish his ideas upon as much of the region as he can... especially the Turkish peoples to the east, thus his assistance to those fighting the Chinese... his involvement for years in those who raid SW RUssia etc.... his support for the breakup of Syria... etc. etc. If you go back to some of those speeches, he has literally said it, and this is why he's so easy to manipulate. The question is why the half-hearted CIA coup attempt? Putin is willing to work with the guy, but it's like working with someone you know you can't trust.
Erdo just wants Gulen out of the way for good so he doesn't have the competition for control of the country.... but this is classic, most countries do this... shut down or take over the press/media, the education system, etc. Essentially, he's the head agent for the ponerological push in Turkey... taking the place of Gulen, trying to replace our GLadio B operators with his own... all those terrorists he's been assisting in their 'liberation' of Syria.. etc. etc. He's definitely not like Duterte, Putin, Xi at all... huge difference, though the policies can seem the same at times. In my opinion, the question is whether he's a psycho or just a sociopath, as I doubt he's one of the chosen people... but I could be wrong on that point.. he seems a useful idiot type.... easy to manipulate. If the CIA wanted him dead in that coup, they would have shot him down themselves with various methods while his plane was in the air.... could easily have blamed it on Gulen, the YPG or the many terrorists he's been supporting... those Turkish troops aren't in nothern Syria to spread peace or 'wrest back control of his country from the One World Government'... you weren't serious with that comment were you?
Edit: I also wish to point out the interfering in other countries too including the Ughers in China which are considered under the same label as terrorists. Even if Turkey was not directly involved in training terrorists on its territory (they may blame Nato whoever). Somebody allowed all this to go on in the country! And is continuing to do insurgencies and treat terrorists in its hospitals etc. Using refugees as bargaining tools, shooting them at the borders etc.