Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Breton]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

{snip}
There was one last thing else that I had hear that can cause diarrhea: upset gut flora. So on September 6 I started taking probiotics, 3 times per day. By September 9 the more solid, but small stools returned! Now these kinds of bowel movements have continued thereafter, unless I miss a day of probiotics, which I currently still take twice per day.

These now proper bowel movements tend to occur once per day, although they might not occur for the space of about 1 day.

_Breton_

Hi Breton! Out of curiosity, what type of probiotics are you taking?

Some Finnish brand recommended highly by one local health food shop (called Probiootti plus). It has only 4 different kinds of bacteria, though, and I would have thought this more expensive brand would have had more. However it has made a profound difference in my gut, so no matter. Maybe it would have been better to find something more natural, but this was what I was able to obtain easily around here.

 

[Alada]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Today it had been quiete a bumpy ride. I woke up with cramps in the calf on both sides and at the same time.

My sister taught me a neat trick to relieve leg / foot cramps – which I was getting fairly regularly last year – and that is to place your the soles of your feet onto something cold, a metal surface, glass/mirror or cool floor tiles. Seems to do the trick fairly quickly.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for the correction! I'm sure down the track we too will find things we have discussed that turned out to be all wrong. Such as the whole brown rice saga. This doesn't mean forget all the other great info we discovered and talked about does it?

I think if people read the sticky threads in this section before they get to this one they should be safe. But then again its got nothing to do with what I think....

hmm... well fair enough, I was thinking maybe the thats only if you found you weren't loosing weight, which I dont think is an issue. I should have posted more of it. Please feel free to follow the link I have provided to read the rest.

chaps23, it's a little strange to me that you're so identified with this site being a good resource when it's simply not. It has some truth in it, but then misses the picture by a wide margin and doesn't seem to actually provide anything useful to the research here nor would it be helpful to a lay person who hasn't done all the research here.

It also makes me wonder about your knowledge of the diet, considering the parts you've excerpted and that you seem to be missing the point that many things have been quite conclusively determined to be unhealthy. No amount of research is going to come back and suddenly result in "oh, trans fats are actually good" or "the benefits of soy suddenly outweigh all the huge negative health effects"--not going to happen.

Have you read the entire Life Without Bread and Ketogenic Diet threads, along with Primal Body, Primal Mind and any of the other reading materials?

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Never the less my truth searching goes on!

Try reading and understanding the entire ketogenic diet thread - including the referenced papers. The information is right there, for goodness sake.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

{snip}
There was one last thing else that I had hear that can cause diarrhea: upset gut flora. So on September 6 I started taking probiotics, 3 times per day. By September 9 the more solid, but small stools returned! Now these kinds of bowel movements have continued thereafter, unless I miss a day of probiotics, which I currently still take twice per day.

These now proper bowel movements tend to occur once per day, although they might not occur for the space of about 1 day.

_Breton_

Hi Breton! Out of curiosity, what type of probiotics are you taking?

Some Finnish brand recommended highly by one local health food shop (called Probiootti plus). It has only 4 different kinds of bacteria, though, and I would have thought this more expensive brand would have had more. However it has made a profound difference in my gut, so no matter. Maybe it would have been better to find something more natural, but this was what I was able to obtain easily around here.

Well, I think number of strains isn't quite so important as type of strains. That's what I was interested in checking out, because I think having a probiotic that provides bacteria conducive to our diet may be quite helpful for us. I'm wondering if there's any way you could post the types of strains in the supplement? Don't know if that would be possible or not given the language difference. I tried looking it up myself but I'm not the best at reading Finnish

 

[Alana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Today it had been quiete a bumpy ride. I woke up with cramps in the calf on both sides and at the same time.

My sister taught me a neat trick to relieve leg / foot cramps – which I was getting fairly regularly last year – and that is to place your the soles of your feet onto something cold, a metal surface, glass/mirror or cool floor tiles. Seems to do the trick fairly quickly.

Nice tip. I also found that standing on the leg that's cramped relieves it too. If it happens when I am lying in bed (most often) I then bend my knee and heavily plant my foot on the mattress. I found that the cramp goes away in seconds, there might be a residual pain on the muscle though.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Today it had been quiete a bumpy ride. I woke up with cramps in the calf on both sides and at the same time.

My sister taught me a neat trick to relieve leg / foot cramps – which I was getting fairly regularly last year – and that is to place your the soles of your feet onto something cold, a metal surface, glass/mirror or cool floor tiles. Seems to do the trick fairly quickly.

Nice tip. I also found that standing on the leg that's cramped relieves it too. If it happens when I am lying in bed (most often) I then bend my knee and heavily plant my foot on the mattress. I found that the cramp goes away in seconds, there might be a residual pain on the muscle though.

Thanks for the advices I like to keep them in my mind. What I learned is stretching the food in the other direction, only that it happens in the morning or in the night plus the pain it is difficult to know where the food is .

 

[Tchaka]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi All. So I Began KD yesterday after weeks of low/no carbs and trying to catch up on the info. finally finished the thread at the 100 page mark, and boiled my bones, acquired so cheaply from a local indie butcher (can't beat the price: for 20 bucks I got bones to last for months, plus fat back now rendered into lard and a bunch of liver I will soon attempt to turn into pate).

I ended up tossing the bones 'as is' (with a healthy amount of fat and meat still attached) into the crock pot for about 20 hours. I couldn't see letting go of the 'extras' and ended up blending the whole mixture. Seems to taste "good enough" for consumption and leaves me feeling nourished. I can't see any reason against this method from what i've gleamed via this thread. Lot's of gruel to eat now, some I've frozen and some I've refrigerated. But it leaves me wondering if i can get by with just this magic mixture, as it seems to be a "complete KD cocktail". I do add some ghee and lard when eating, just to make sure it's a high enough fat ratio. I'll continue to play with the ratio. And I will eat small amounts of meat just to break the monotony.

I've yet to add supplements, but will do so as symptoms arise, as from what i can tell, these additions are more for displeasure than the actual clean out process. I may be misguided here. I will do a little re-cap research and see if i can find any references to the magnesium, potassium and vit. C being mandatory for success, but again, seems like once one gets grooving, the body will supply what's needed via the bounty of broth, lots of fat and limited protein.

bacon, eggs and salt water in the morn, cold showers a plenty and tomorrow I'll incorporate resistance training. Looking forward to the benefits. If anyone can see any misunderstanding in my assessment, let me know if it's not too much hassle.

I must admit that i'm partly posting in an effort to be accountable to someone, as you guys are the only humans i know who support these efforts. Nobody in my world is "against" it, but definitely not interested. They just figure it's another one of my crazy self improvement attempts. Hope such posting in itself is not noisome.

Even after a day and a half, i can tell this will be much less rigor than things like the Master Cleanse (10 days of lemon water, Cayenne and maple syrup) which i was prone to do once yearly. And loads of added benefit I presume…I have this weird inkling that the relationship of Master Cleanse (and cleanses, fasts and diets in general) to KD/IF is analogous to the relationship between traditional "clear your head" meditation and EE breathe work…where, yes, emptying your mind is better than filling it with lies…but actually filling that space with tools that can create something powerful inside, is even better. just a thought.

on the lighter side, as i warm up my bone broth, two things come to mind that give me inspiration:

One is the moment in "Darkness Over Tibet" (via Laura's article part 3 http://cassiopaea.org/2012/03/26/darkness-over-tibet-part-3-2/) when Illion decides to forgo the food supplied by the underground city and take matters into his own hands: "After getting a supply of food, Illion locked his door and prepared his own meals. He didn't feel the impairment of his capacity to think after eating his simple barley gruel. Nevertheless, he did leave the option open that these impressions could be simply auto-suggestion."

that last part already being something that i'm suffering, as only two days into it, I already think i can see and hear better! Which is obviously ridiculous, but such is life.

The second is more fictional, but inspires me nonetheless, so i thought i'd share. If you've ever seen "Defending Your Life", a great movie starring Albert Brooks, Meryl Streep and Rip Torn there is a funny scene where Bob Diamond (Rip Torn) a higher being of sorts, aka a "Big Brain", is briefing Daniel Miller (Albert Brooks), an average "little brain" human who has just arrived in Judgement City to "defend his life". They are having lunch (Daniel eating the 'delicious' food we here attempting KD/IF will all be "missing" and Bob eating a small pile of something that looks quite 'vile'):

Daniel Miller: [curious] What are you eating?
Bob Diamond: You wouldn't like this. Ha-ha-ha.
Daniel Miller: What is it? What's it taste like?
Bob Diamond: You're curious, aren't ya? Good. I like that about you. You wanna try?
Daniel Miller: Yeah. It looks so weird.
[Daniel tries the substance, but it has a terrible taste; Daniel gags and chokes; Bob laughs]
Daniel Miller: Oh, my God!
Bob Diamond: A little like horsesh*t, huh?
[Daniel nods as he spits it out]
Bob Diamond: As you get smarter, you begin to manipulate your senses. This tastes much different to me than it does to you.
Daniel Miller: Eww! This is what smart people eat?

---

so here's to hoping that "this is what smart people eat." I have a strong sense that it is likely so.

cheers and good luck to everyone on the adventure. I'll repost when my experiment produces notable effects. ;) T'

 

[Breton]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

{snip}
There was one last thing else that I had hear that can cause diarrhea: upset gut flora. So on September 6 I started taking probiotics, 3 times per day. By September 9 the more solid, but small stools returned! Now these kinds of bowel movements have continued thereafter, unless I miss a day of probiotics, which I currently still take twice per day.

These now proper bowel movements tend to occur once per day, although they might not occur for the space of about 1 day.

_Breton_

Hi Breton! Out of curiosity, what type of probiotics are you taking?

Some Finnish brand recommended highly by one local health food shop (called Probiootti plus). It has only 4 different kinds of bacteria, though, and I would have thought this more expensive brand would have had more. However it has made a profound difference in my gut, so no matter. Maybe it would have been better to find something more natural, but this was what I was able to obtain easily around here.

Well, I think number of strains isn't quite so important as type of strains. That's what I was interested in checking out, because I think having a probiotic that provides bacteria conducive to our diet may be quite helpful for us. I'm wondering if there's any way you could post the types of strains in the supplement? Don't know if that would be possible or not given the language difference. I tried looking it up myself but I'm not the best at reading Finnish

Ah yes what does the bottle say:

It seems the main ingredient is in Finnish "maitohappobakteeri" which translates to lactagogue,whatever that is, but the main thing is that it tends to contain something like the following bacteria:
Lactobacillus, Lactococcus, Pediococcus, Leuconostoc ja Enterococcus.

Sauerkraut may have some of this too, it is suggested in wikipedia.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...I think if people read the sticky threads in this section before they get to this one they should be safe. But then again its got nothing to do with what I think....

I'll happily give up on this thread if your thinking there is too much crap on this page. Excuse my french :P...

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer when I replied. I did see your other comments about the website but, as it turned out, I only had time to write some general comments of my own because of something else that came up unexpectedly at home.

This has been discussed before, I think, but what we are doing here is different from what people in general are doing with low-carb/KD, and there is nothing particularly simple about it, starting with the need to read these topics (LWB & KD) in their entirety. "Simple" websites presenting potentially misleading, confusing, and contradictory information aren't any help here, I don't think.

Sometimes it can be worth it to weed out the bad information, if there is a core of good material that surpasses what is available elsewhere. I think that has been the case with Phinney & Volek's work, even though when you look at their specific food recommendations some of it is garbage. One of them actually discovered empirically how bad soybean oil was, when it affected his human experiments (the subjects avoided the food that contained it, because they didn't feel right after eating it!), and yet I don't think they advise strictly avoiding vegetable oils even now (I would have to check to be sure).

 

[chaps23]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

chaps23, it's a little strange to me that you're so identified with this site being a good resource when it's simply not. It has some truth in it, but then misses the picture by a wide margin and doesn't seem to actually provide anything useful to the research here nor would it be helpful to a lay person who hasn't done all the research here.

It also makes me wonder about your knowledge of the diet, considering the parts you've excerpted and that you seem to be missing the point that many things have been quite conclusively determined to be unhealthy. No amount of research is going to come back and suddenly result in "oh, trans fats are actually good" or "the benefits of soy suddenly outweigh all the huge negative health effects"--not going to happen.
Have you read the entire Life Without Bread and Ketogenic Diet threads, along with Primal Body, Primal Mind and any of the other reading materials?

Hi Foxx, Anart,

Apologies for wasting your time. I think Foxx you miss understood (likely due to my poor writing skills) what I was getting at, when I said

I'm sure down the track we too will find things we have discussed that turned out to be all wrong.

I was simply stating that we have made similar mistakes to what she/ the Author is doing now, I also admited that the site had lots of these "errors" on it and advised that there would need to be amendments. To further add especially before attempting the receipe section but some of them look so yummy.... I am fully aware of the dangers these products cause and I was in no way endorsing them.

Foxx, did I ever endorse Soy or Trans Fats? If so please state where? I do sometimes type with out thinking but I highly doubt I would do that. And is there anything I said in particular or directly that has made you doubt my knowlege of the Keto Diet? Especially since I gave those warnings at the beginning of the post then further more on my next post? I do however, apologise if that was the impression I gave.

Anart, yes your right it is all in this thread but when I go to look for something it takes me two & half hours to find it on here. I loved the convieninece the site offered but since this whole forum is dedicated to weeding out the bull&^%$ I do truly understand what it was I did wrong. I have forever been sifting through various webpages then cross checking data here/elsewhere and I see that thats not the way things are done here.

Never the less my truth searching goes on!

Try reading and understanding the entire ketogenic diet thread - including the referenced papers. The information is right there, for goodness sake.

I was just saying truth searching/learning in general (like all life are consistantly doing everyday), reading is easy, but understanding not so easy. Thanks for your concern I have always had trouble absorbing information that I read I'm an auditive learner.

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer when I replied. I did see your other comments about the website but, as it turned out, I only had time to write some general comments of my own because of something else that came up unexpectedly at home.

This has been discussed before, I think, but what we are doing here is different from what people in general are doing with low-carb/KD, and there is nothing particularly simple about it, starting with the need to read these topics (LWB & KD) in their entirety. "Simple" websites presenting potentially misleading, confusing, and contradictory information aren't any help here, I don't think.

Sometimes it can be worth it to weed out the bad information, if there is a core of good material that surpasses what is available elsewhere. I think that has been the case with Phinney & Volek's work, even though when you look at their specific food recommendations some of it is garbage. One of them actually discovered empirically how bad soybean oil was, when it affected his human experiments (the subjects avoided the food that contained it, because they didn't feel right after eating it!), and yet I don't think they advise strictly avoiding vegetable oils even now (I would have to check to be sure).

Hi Again Megan,

I understand completely so dont stress, I dont have/ cant afford the internet at home so I do all my stuff at work and am forever being interupted.

I know what we are doing here is different, I just thought there was stuff on there worth reading/sifting through. You and Anart are definately correct in saying the highlighted text, especially the potentialy misleading information when lots is already available here. I dont know why alarm bells didn't ring while I was doing it. The last thing I want to do here is be responcible for unintentionally guiding somebody down the wrong track, I wouldn't forgive myself.

Perhaps the next time I feel neccesary to share information I should spend much more time doing the "Sifting" before hand. Unfortunately due to restrictions on the net at work I can not view alot of the data posted here on this site SOTT/YouTube even the Quantum Future site all blocked! :( so I try to find similar information so that I can try to contribute to this awesome group in a positive way. Perhaps I'm going about all this wrong....

Anyway enough wasting everybodies time thanks again guys. I will endevor to improve as always,

Warm Regards,

Brent.

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so I try to find similar information so that I can try to contribute to this awesome group in a positive way. Perhaps I'm going about all this wrong....

You would benefit a lot more if you focused on getting yourself and your diet where it needs to be (and UNDERSTANDING IT) rather than trying to contribute information from dubious sources. Focus on you and what you need to do before focusing on telling others what should be done. Once you really understand the diet and how it works, it all falls into place and you wouldn't even suggest what you've suggested in your last several posts - first things first - get yourself where you need to be before advising others.

 

[chaps23]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

so I try to find similar information so that I can try to contribute to this awesome group in a positive way. Perhaps I'm going about all this wrong....

You would benefit a lot more if you focused on getting yourself and your diet where it needs to be (and UNDERSTANDING IT) rather than trying to contribute information from dubious sources. Focus on you and what you need to do before focusing on telling others what should be done. Once you really understand the diet and how it works, it all falls into place and you wouldn't even suggest what you've suggested in your last several posts - first things first - get yourself where you need to be before advising others.

Will do thanks mate, I think you missed the word attempting in between before and advising. Perhaps I'll start sharing some more in regards to where I'm at and hope you guys advise me to where my next step should be. Then people can learn from my experiences/mistakes rather than me trying to teach?

Problem is a fear of having people ridicule me for my errors which I'm having trouble overcoming due to ego issues at the moment I'm having difficulties grasping, reading Martha Stout & Keto Diet helped me see & understand it but it didn't seem to just naturally change after that like I thought it was supposed to.

Brent.

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Problem is a fear of having people ridicule me for my errors which I'm having trouble overcoming due to ego issues a

If it weren't for errors, none of us would learn anything at all.

 

[Bluefyre]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am finding it helpful to have my salty water in the evening otherwise I wake up with the beginning of cramping in my calves and feet. I was fitted for new orthotics a couple of months ago and woke up the first night with my right leg in full spasm. I got to the kitchen and drank down some salt water and within minutes the muscles relaxed. They were very sore for several days.

I have cut back on the amount of magnesium I take but still need at least 6 capsules before bed, a mixture of orortate, malate and citrate. I've also started taking a couple of capsules of a combination of taurine, potassium and magnesium citrate, so 8 capsules all together. The taurine combination seems to be increasing absorption, and I find I am sleeping more deeply. Before I discovered I had celiac disease I was severely deficient in magnesium and I still don't think I've caught up. I have been able to reduce to a couple of capsules in the morning and the rest in the evening rather than the amount I took throughout the day. Drinking bone broth regularly has really helped also, perhaps with the added minerals as well as speeding up the gut healing. I've never effortly passed fully formed stools regularly almost every moning in all of my 57 years until the last year. That alone is a miracle and the paleo into KD is amazing. I think there's still some healing happening since I do "go" every day rather than every two or three as reported by others. I can't say thank you often enough to everyone for contributing their experience and research. And where else can one discuss the frequency and consistency of their BMs. LOL!