Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Angchop]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche-

Thank you so much for the information on the potassium. It was very helpful...I will keep the supplements on hand in case I need them, but I am not going to take them daily anymore. The bone broth seems to do the trick, and it is delicious as well!!!

 

[Absyllyon]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Note that I haven't read this whole thread, so I will just cover my personal experience with a keto diet, more accurately termed raw primal diet in my case.

After reading the raw primal forum for 2 weeks I worked up the courage to try it out. I went in cold turkey. The 2 weeks of reading was enough to make the transition rather easy except for a bit of weekness and realising that milk was not going to work at all, as it make me feel very week in the legs. Kefir milk (fermented raw milk) is alot more tollerable. Eating raw grass fed meat, kefir milk and avocadoes was my stapel.

The results for me where nothing short of shocking and make me feel very leary of the diet recomendations of our society. There seems in my view to be a conspiracy to lock us out of our abiility to function in this world.

Most of my life I have experienced stabbings and vortexing in the solar plexus, indicating fear, anxiety and a vacumming off of energy. I was anxious around people, afraid to go to functions, to loose my job etc. I would incessantly imagine negative outcomes. I was basically insecure all round. I would spend my days trying to stop up all the holes my energy was leaking from. After a few days the anxiety attacks ceased and my fear went away - I had no feelings about loosing my job - if I did, well I would just go look for another. I became vulcan - still and at peace. My body got stronger and harder, so did my mind. If I get angry or something it rises and dissipates just as quickly - no hanging on to the emotion.

When I look at this I associate grains etc with weakness. They make me weak, disjointed and extreamly susceptable to been manipulated by outside influences. Interestingly my dreams stopped dead, or at least my recall of them was non existant. The time that my dreams and lucid dreaming was most active was when I was a fruitarian which weakened me extensively. Such diets in my case lead to broken sleep and continual interferance from shadow beings and replilians.

Raw primal - no dreams, solid, whole and strong. Power and closed portal
High Carb - dreams gallore, shadow interferance, weak and dissasocited . Open portal

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Note that I haven't read this whole thread, so I will just cover my personal experience with a keto diet, more accurately termed raw primal diet in my case.=

Hi Absyllyon, the raw primal diet is not at all the same as the ketogenic diet. Please read the entire thread.

 

[Absyllyon]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

ok. My mistake in using the wrong term. I mean only to comment on my experience of been in ketosis.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Absyllyon,

It'd be great to know a little more about you and how you found the forum. Is it possible for you to post an intro in the newbie section? It doesn't have to be long, just what you feel comfortable with. :)

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Butyrate enemas? That's interesting since I know butyrate taken in throught the diet, as butter or ghee, should't be reaching the large intestine since it's absorbed in the small intestine. Since I'm one of those having transit issues, this idea intrigues me. I'm wondering though, would one just use ghee mixed with water to accomplish this? Also, my understanding is that enemas don't generally reach much past the sigmoid colon, maybe getting into the descending colon. This isn't where the bacteria hang out (which is why coffee enemas don't kill off your good bacteria). Would we need to do something to get the butyrate deeper into the colon in order to make it effective?

It might have an "explosive" effect, but yeah, butyrate is one almighty thing. It is researched for ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease, but the applications and implications goes well beyond that. {snip}

Very interesting, thanks Psyche.

Unfortunately, most of these links talk about doing sodium butyrate, which is probably much different from doing actual oil (I'm guessing sodium butyrate is a powder, but I could be wrong). I don't have access to sodium butyrate, but I do have access to high vitamin butter oil, the kind Dr. Price used in combination with fermented cod liver oil. I'm wondering if an enema with this would be beneficial to a sluggish colon. I'm thinking maybe my ongoing transit issues may have to do with the fact that the bacteria aren't fermenting any fiber to make butyrate to feed the colon anymore, so the colon is missing its fuel. Dietary butyrate won't reach the colon, so maybe an enema is the way to go.

I found a page that gives instructions on doing a olive oil enema, so perhaps the same method could be used for butter oil/ghee.

_http://www.enema-web.com/olive_oil_enema.htm

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

ok. My mistake in using the wrong term. I mean only to comment on my experience of been in ketosis.

How do you know you were in ketosis if you don't know the difference between raw primal and ketogenic. There is a big difference including going pretty much zero carbs and restricting protein to the essential level. Also, it is not something you want to do cold turkey, nor is it something that can be tested over a couple of weeks. It takes 3 to 6 weeks to make the full transition. Also, we do not recommend ANY dairy products.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

CoQ10 is especially helpful for those with heart problems: heart failure, heart palpitations, etc. It is also helpful for Parkinson's disease. Both nutrients are supplied with a diet rich in fat and fatty meat.

If you are doing well with bone broth, I would not worry though. I think it is more of the kind of supplementation that a person starting the diet should need. For instance, a person with heart palpitations who is starting the diet (in this case paleo diet) to deal with this problem.

FWIW, I agree, and specially if you don't HAVE to take them (i.e. if you are not in a desperate situation). I remember that in a paper Laura found (I'll see if I can find the reference), they had studied CoQ10 to see if it had a real effect on changing the mytochondria, and the results weren't very impressive. I can't remember whether they had tried L-Carnitine too or not. But the main idea was that, if you do the KD diet for a long enough period of time so supplements are needed. So, maybe just up the bone broth, and see if it has a longer term effect?

 

[Z...]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The Sodium issue is not to be taken lightly and this cannot be overemphasized, and consecutively Potassium as its metabolism is closely linked to Sodium. Its very easy to forget to supplement salt.
There is very simple way to check your Sodium status ( not sure if this was mentioned before) - Checking for so called pitting edema:
If you push your finger into the tissue in the front (or just to the side of) your shin bone and your finger leaves an indentation – almost a finger print – that takes a while to fill back in, you have pitting edema.
Even if you dont have pitting edema, but you are experiencing headaches, muscle cramps, postural hypo-tension (standing up too quickly you feel faint) and excessive urination you need to crank up your salt intake and water intake.

One of the first things that happens when people go on low-carb diets is a rapid improvement in insulin sensitivity. Because the low-carb diet starts to quickly banish the insulin resistance, insulin levels fall quickly. And as insulin falls, the stimulus to the kidneys to retain fluids goes away, and the kidneys begin to rapidly release fluid. One of the common experiences at the start of low-carb dieting is the incessant running back and forth to the bathroom to urinate this excess fluid away.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't have access to sodium butyrate, but I do have access to high vitamin butter oil, the kind Dr. Price used in combination with fermented cod liver oil.

And you have taken it consistently without noticing effects? If you upped your intake of butter and vitamin butter oil to no avail, I would experiment doing the occasional enema with it. It would definitely not hurt. But beware that these types of enemas can be hard to retain, so I would start small.

I have gut issues transitioning and for a moment I thought that taking some extra carbs was the answer. But I'm glad I persisted since clarity of mind is definitely sharper on a 0 carb diet. The other thing I tried was to eat the bone broth as gelatin. Lots of liquidy broth was not sitting well in my tummy. It was bloating me and it makes me think of Hiromi Shinya's book The Enzyme Factor where he says that having solid food is a good stimulus for digestion and digestive enzymes and that the worst possible thing a person can do after gut surgery is to restart the oral route with liquid food. Well, I like the consistency of jello a lot as well. I make my bone broth from pig's feet and then eat it as jello after a day in the fridge. It is glorious!

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am in a holding pattern right now, waiting for lab results (a variety of thyroid and other hormone tests) and for the ketone meter I have on order. I am considering going zero-carb again after I see the labs, and depending on what they show, but I have some concerns that I wanted to share.

When I last went zero carb back in September, I almost immediately developed a consistent morning headache -- from the time I got up to after I ate -- which was not caused by a blood sugar drop because I measured it and, if anything, it was a little high for fasting glucose, being approximately in the 90-100 range. I also developed abdominal pain that I have confirmed was in the area of my liver. (A special thanks goes to my cats for stomping on my chest and bringing it to my attention early.)

I also developed constipation after some days, but that started to correct nearly two weeks in. By then, however, I had had enough of the headaches, which weren't getting any better, and the abdominal pain that seemed to be getting worse. I wanted to be in reasonably good condition when I had the blood drawn for the tests, and I had a business conference coming up for which I needed to be well, and I increased my carb intake back to 20g (from local organic sweet potato). When I did that, the morning headaches went away almost immediately and that particular abdominal pain tapered off gradually over a couple of weeks or so and has not returned. I do have "gas pains" at time, that appear to come from my colon, but I am not as concerned about those because they are transient (i.e., they pass when the gas does).

I have purchased hand weights (dumbbells with interchangeable plates) and adjustable ankle weights, and I have recently started a resistance exercise program. Right now I am extremely weak, and recovery takes about a week. I have had to limit the exercises I do, not because my muscles give out (which they should do with this type of exercise), but because I quickly lose my breath.

I have been this way before, however, and my exercise capacity improved over a period of weeks just with walking (2-4 mile walks). I still do a certain amount of walking as a part of my commute to work, but this time I am focusing primarily on the resistance exercise, which is much more comprehensive.

My overall sense (which I realize is not a precise measure) is that my health has declined somewhat since I dropped below 50 g/day of carb intake. When I originally started the KD I first went down to 20-25 g/d for an Atkins-style "induction," then dropped experimentally to ~0 g/d, which made me rather ill, and then came back up until I felt better, which was at ~50 g/d. All of this should be in the "ketogenic range," although I haven't actually measured my ketones yet (I will shortly). By the way, I don't in any way mean this as a recommendation for others to increase carb intake. It is what I have noticed about me, specifically, and it may or may not be accurate even then.

My sense is that I should probably continue to "hold" right now until I have verified my thyroid and other hormone status (one of the tests is for Hashimoto's) -- a couple of weeks from now -- and while I accumulate at least a little muscle mass and hopefully improve my metabolism in the process.

 

[Absyllyon]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

ok. My mistake in using the wrong term. I mean only to comment on my experience of been in ketosis.

How do you know you were in ketosis if you don't know the difference between raw primal and ketogenic. There is a big difference including going pretty much zero carbs and restricting protein to the essential level. Also, it is not something you want to do cold turkey, nor is it something that can be tested over a couple of weeks. It takes 3 to 6 weeks to make the full transition. Also, we do not recommend ANY dairy products.

My post belongs in another thread. It occurs to me that I have rudely interupted this thread on account of getting a little enthused at reading the title and not looking any further to see if there were more appropriate threads to post in.

In my understanding ketosis is reached after 48 hrs of eating just about no carbs with innitial symptoms of weakness, headaches, thirst, lack of appetite, different smelling breathe. That along with feeling completely the opposite to my usual state, having sensations of hunger that were not the usual ones of a slight panic for more food. The hunger could wait. Clarity of thought and focus. There was a rather powerful feeling of ruthlessness with self in that I would do what needed to be done rather than put it off. Emotions rose and passed, I did not dwell on the actions and outbursts of others and the internal dialogue subsided dramatically.

I did not use a ketone stick so cannot prove it beyond doubt to myself. Beyond what I have stated I don't know what else it could have been. I am doing it again and will get some sticks to test.

I did do it cold turkey with much mental preperation which is more important than easing the body into. I am not advocating it at all. It was just what I did. I have tried balancing it out with cooked food and a little fruit, which incedently does not work out too well. Cooked food makes me very hungry and fruit a causes weakness in the legs.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am in a holding pattern right now, waiting for lab results (a variety of thyroid and other hormone tests) and for the ketone meter I have on order. I am considering going zero-carb again after I see the labs, and depending on what they show, but I have some concerns that I wanted to share.

When I last went zero carb back in September, I almost immediately developed a consistent morning headache -- from the time I got up to after I ate -- which was not caused by a blood sugar drop because I measured it and, if anything, it was a little high for fasting glucose, being approximately in the 90-100 range. I also developed abdominal pain that I have confirmed was in the area of my liver. (A special thanks goes to my cats for stomping on my chest and bringing it to my attention early.)

I was getting this too when I was fluctuating between low carbs and no carbs. The no carbs seemed to bring it on. But after I made it past the three week mtDNA activation period, now I only get it if I eat carbs! I think it's due to the morning dump from the adrenals. It took me a little while to stop having it most mornings, now it is just occasional. I think it means EAT NOW. So I do and that takes care of things.

I have had glitchy pains here and there, now and then, but that mostly stops as long as I'm getting enough bone broth and salt with an occasional potassium tab and pretty regular magnesium malate.

I also developed constipation after some days, but that started to correct nearly two weeks in. By then, however, I had had enough of the headaches, which weren't getting any better, and the abdominal pain that seemed to be getting worse. I wanted to be in reasonably good condition when I had the blood drawn for the tests, and I had a business conference coming up for which I needed to be well, and I increased my carb intake back to 20g (from local organic sweet potato). When I did that, the morning headaches went away almost immediately and that particular abdominal pain tapered off gradually over a couple of weeks or so and has not returned. I do have "gas pains" at time, that appear to come from my colon, but I am not as concerned about those because they are transient (i.e., they pass when the gas does).

I have purchased hand weights (dumbbells with interchangeable plates) and adjustable ankle weights, and I have recently started a resistance exercise program. Right now I am extremely weak, and recovery takes about a week. I have had to limit the exercises I do, not because my muscles give out (which they should do with this type of exercise), but because I quickly lose my breath.

Sounds like you pretty desperately need to get that wild mtDNA up and moving! So did I! It was a struggle, I can tell you!

I have been this way before, however, and my exercise capacity improved over a period of weeks just with walking (2-4 mile walks). I still do a certain amount of walking as a part of my commute to work, but this time I am focusing primarily on the resistance exercise, which is much more comprehensive.

My overall sense (which I realize is not a precise measure) is that my health has declined somewhat since I dropped below 50 g/day of carb intake. When I originally started the KD I first went down to 20-25 g/d for an Atkins-style "induction," then dropped experimentally to ~0 g/d, which made me rather ill, and then came back up until I felt better, which was at ~50 g/d. All of this should be in the "ketogenic range," although I haven't actually measured my ketones yet (I will shortly). By the way, I don't in any way mean this as a recommendation for others to increase carb intake. It is what I have noticed about me, specifically, and it may or may not be accurate even then.

My sense is that I should probably continue to "hold" right now until I have verified my thyroid and other hormone status (one of the tests is for Hashimoto's) -- a couple of weeks from now -- and while I accumulate at least a little muscle mass and hopefully improve my metabolism in the process.

I had the same experience until I became absolutely determined to get the healing mtDNA working which I knew was the key and can only happen one way, and no matter how miserable I was (and it was a bit of torture since I had so many issues, pains, tiredness, etc) I was going to do it. Because, of course, I realized that the carbs were just simply prolonging the state - that no real, deep healing could ever take place as long as I had any of them to burn. For me, it really was a kind of alchemical death and transformation and it wasn't pleasant. Even some of the young'uns around here went through trials that were similar. As we reported, the main thing seemed to be the bone-deep tiredness and the bone pains which were worst from the hips to the knees, but I also had things going on in the liver area, lower legs, and arms.

Now, however, having re-tooled the machine to burn fat, it is the carbs that cause the headaches and other pains! Go figure!

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan, I totally agree with Laura, because I had a similar experience. What is the longest you have been at very low carbs? I mean, not September when you started, but how long you maintained a low-carb diet for, without a break. Apologies if I missed it.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan, I totally agree with Laura, because I had a similar experience. What is the longest you have been at very low carbs? I mean, not September when you started, but how long you maintained a low-carb diet for, without a break. Apologies if I missed it.

Not just lowered carbs, but NO carbs, restricted protein so that doesn't get turned into carbs, plenty of fat, AND pumping iron fast and hard so that your body shakes??? That's the ticket!