Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, onions are okay once in awhile for us, but if you eat them more than one or two days in a row, they "accumulate toxicity" or something like that. Nuts, too. I'm now able to have them without an immediate reaction, but if I have them two or three days in a row, the old reactions of pain and joint creaking come back.

Well that could explain why having some of these foods over the holidays while staying with my parents seemed to have no effect but now it does. There I was probably having onions or nuts or whatever only once or twice, but here at home, cooking them for myself, I'm having them several days in a row. Since I'm only using about a third of an onion at a time, there's pressure to use it up before it goes bad!

[quote author=Laura]
Could be. I have pretty much the same issue as you are having and I've found a sort of solution while waiting for the sauerkraut to ferment: I just take a "moving dose" of magnesium every three days. Of course, I had to test to see what that dose was, which took three days, but now that I know it, I just take it regularly.

Since xylitol tends to kill off a lot of bacteria (which is probably a good thing in many ways) it may be doing that in the intestines so I'm thinking that the sauerkraut will help.
[/quote]

OK, thanks Laura. I think I'll try a magnesium "moving dose" next week instead of my weekly enema if things still haven't started moving. I probably should get some magnesium oxide for that, since it seems to work the best for getting things moving.

I bought some unpasteurized sauerkraut today and had a couple of spoonfuls. I figured it would be best to try a small amount before going through the trouble of fermenting it myself. If this goes well I'll start my own batch this weekend. I'll be sure to update again soon.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Something happened last night and I could do with some help here.

A few hours before going to bed I started getting back pain which is highly unusual for me. It was a very deep pain, it almost felt like it was right inside my bones. I went to bed and struggled to find a comfortable position, but eventually fell asleep. At around 3.30am I woke up with the worst stomach pain. This is also a first one for me, I know bowel pain very well due to IBS, but not stomach pain. It was bad to the point that my husband wanted to call an ambulance. It felt like my stomach, just below the ribs, was being crushed, if that makes any sense. I took several pills (antiacids) I had fortunately kept in a drawer and that settled it after a while.

I woke up this morning feeling weak, and with an extremely sensitive stomach. I have been taking the pills the whole day to keep the pain at bay, but there is a constant discomfort that on occasion turns to pain again.

I have no idea of why this has happened. I did eat a few things I don't usually eat, the first being home made mayonnaise with one egg and olive oil, and the second being green beans, although very little of each, and only at lunch. I'm finding it hard to think that these could have caused it, since they were eaten at lunchtime, and by 3am if there was to be a related problem shouldn't it be felt on my bowels?
Eggs are not new, as I eat them regularly although not raw, and I've eaten about 2 green beans a couple of days ago after a very long period of eating virtually no vegetables.

I also had an appointment today with a friend who's a kinesiologist and homeopath. I've been seeing her for hormonal issues. From her testing she said that nothing had come out related to my digestive system, although all other results seemed pretty accurate.

Right now I'm puzzled and would appreciate some feedback. I don't know what may have caused this, nor if it is something that will linger, although I sure hope it's nothing serious.

Thanks!

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...
Right now I'm puzzled and would appreciate some feedback. I don't know what may have caused this, nor if it is something that will linger, although I sure hope it's nothing serious.
...

None of the foods you ate sounds like it should have been a problem. Antacids, though, can cause all sorts of problems over time. This is not something I have spent much time reading about, but as I recall people tend to take them (or are told to take them) when they don't have enough stomach acid, and the antacids only make things worse.

I have had a GERD-like reaction to alpha lipoic acid occasionally when I took it on an empty stomach (which I now avoid doing). Other supplements could also cause similar problems under certain conditions. It doesn't really sound like it was something you consumed, however. A lot of things can happen for reasons we don't see.

I have been having some digestive problems for the last several days, which in turn seem to have been triggered by sleep disruption (which definitely can affect the gut), which in part was caused by hip pains while lying in bed, which are something that I regularly have trouble with in the winter and I have no idea why.

When I can't figure out what is going on, if it isn't too acute I usually wait and see what else develops. That is all I can suggest.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Something happened last night and I could do with some help here.

A few hours before going to bed I started getting back pain which is highly unusual for me. It was a very deep pain, it almost felt like it was right inside my bones. I went to bed and struggled to find a comfortable position, but eventually fell asleep. At around 3.30am I woke up with the worst stomach pain. This is also a first one for me, I know bowel pain very well due to IBS, but not stomach pain. It was bad to the point that my husband wanted to call an ambulance. It felt like my stomach, just below the ribs, was being crushed, if that makes any sense. I took several pills (antiacids) I had fortunately kept in a drawer and that settled it after a while......

That is a little strange sounding Gertrudes. Can you locate where in the back you had the pain? And I assume the back pain is gone now, and you just have the stomach pain.

On the stomach, does it feel like it is contracting? Is the pain rather continuous or does it seem to come in waves?

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Geeze, sounds almost like the pancreatitis type attacks I used to get. Or maybe they were gall bladder. I describe it as feeling like being impaled on a fencepost through the middle coming out the back. The pain can come in waves and make you feel very nauseous. Retrospectively, I think that when I had it I must have been passing a small stone from the bile duct or something. After a series of these attacks, they stopped and haven't had one since 2007 I think. The last one was the worst ever (so you'd think I'd remember it!) and after that, no more, so if there were stones in my gallbladder from my previous life, they must have exited finally.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

None of the foods you ate sounds like it should have been a problem. Antacids, though, can cause all sorts of problems over time. This is not something I have spent much time reading about, but as I recall people tend to take them (or are told to take them) when they don't have enough stomach acid, and the antacids only make things worse.

Yeah, I'm aware of it. Adding to that, Ironically sometimes antacids are recommended when people are actually suffering from lack of acid.
I don't plan to keep taking them though, that was a solution for extreme pain. I've just had breakfast and only feel a minor discomfort, which means that today I feel better then yesterday. The discomfort is felt (as yesterday) as a burning pain in my stomach, and today it seems to be also in my gut.

A lot of things can happen for reasons we don't see.

That sure is true.

I have been having some digestive problems for the last several days, which in turn seem to have been triggered by sleep disruption (which definitely can affect the gut), which in part was caused by hip pains while lying in bed, which are something that I regularly have trouble with in the winter and I have no idea why.

Do you have arthritis Megan? Hips are commonly one of the first affected areas for people developing arthritis and it does usually get worse in the winter due to the cold making everything stiffer. Mornings tend to be worse as well.

That is a little strange sounding Gertrudes. Can you locate where in the back you had the pain? And I assume the back pain is gone now, and you just have the stomach pain.

Actually, I started having a weird pain in my left hip a few days ago. Since I don't usually suffer from bodily aches, this was also very unusual. I applied DMSO and did some stretches which made it better. By Sunday though, the pain had traveled into my right hip, and by evening it had traveled into my back. Initially I felt it in my entire spine, but just before I fell asleep, I remember feeling that it was concentrating itself on my middle back, just behind where my stomach is. A couple of hours later I woke up to what I described in my above post.

An yes, the pain both in my back and hips is entirely gone, and have been since the stomach episode, it's like it was never there in the first place. It feels like there was a wave of something building up to eventually cumulate in my stomach.

On the stomach, does it feel like it is contracting? Is the pain rather continuous or does it seem to come in waves?

It feels like it's contracting and it is continuous.

Geeze, sounds almost like the pancreatitis type attacks I used to get. Or maybe they were gall bladder. I describe it as feeling like being impaled on a fencepost through the middle coming out the back. The pain can come in waves and make you feel very nauseous. Retrospectively, I think that when I had it I must have been passing a small stone from the bile duct or something. After a series of these attacks, they stopped and haven't had one since 2007 I think. The last one was the worst ever (so you'd think I'd remember it!) and after that, no more, so if there were stones in my gallbladder from my previous life, they must have exited finally.

I think I can relate! Although for me it was more of a crushing and burning sensation. It's like my stomach was literally being burned and crushed.
But now that you've mentioned gallbladder related problems, I have been doing acupuncture and homeopathy, and both have been addressing my liver. But wouldn't in that case the pain be felt there, and not in my stomach?

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I think I can relate! Although for me it was more of a crushing and burning sensation. It's like my stomach was literally being burned and crushed.
But now that you've mentioned gallbladder related problems, I have been doing acupuncture and homeopathy, and both have been addressing my liver. But wouldn't in that case the pain be felt there, and not in my stomach?

Often what's felt to be stomach is actually the esophagus or the esophagus/stomach interface area (due to irritation or bad bacteria). Lying prone in bed can make it feel worse. A little baking soda in water (instead of the pills) might be a good test if it happens again. The other thing to try might be a broad spectrum probiotic to try to overwhelm a bad bacteria issue. Maybe Psyche has some better ideas.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Actually, I started having a weird pain in my left hip a few days ago. Since I don't usually suffer from bodily aches, this was also very unusual. I applied DMSO and did some stretches which made it better. By Sunday though, the pain had traveled into my right hip, and by evening it had traveled into my back. Initially I felt it in my entire spine, but just before I fell asleep, I remember feeling that it was concentrating itself on my middle back, just behind where my stomach is. A couple of hours later I woke up to what I described in my above post.

Hi Gertrudes,

From the way you describe it sounds like a pain from the "seronegative spondylarthropathies", for instance something like ankylosing spondylitis. These peculiar name diseases speak of an autoimmune attack in the joints of your lower back/pelvis -sacrum, ileum. That it started in one hip and moved to another one and then involved your upper back is suggestive, at least to me. Even more suggestive is the attack in your stomach. As it happens, an autoimmune joint attack of this sort is often associated with inflammation in the gut, but also other parts of the body. We are talking about some serious inflammatory attack. You don't have to have the official diagnosis and all the diagnostic criteria to have an attack like you described. I would just keep in mind that there is a typical inflammatory reaction that involves all of what you just listed.

I have had inflammatory reactions of this sort/spectrum of diseases while having a perfect diet, or as close as it could get. It concentrated in my finger and it felt like someone stabbed it with a knife. I also had problems with my eye. Both are also part of the same spectrum of "seronegative spondylarthropathies".

The raw egg does sound suspicious to me since raw eggs have antinutrients that are neutralized when cooked. Did you had something different to eat before the hip pain started?

Now will be a good time to titrate doses of liposomal vitamin C. I would try to do a lot of doses every day. If it feels sore in your stomach, try buffering with bicarbonate like Laura explained in the Ascorbic Acid thread just today. These inflammatory reactions are associated with HLA-B7. In my case, I couldn't bother testing for it. The less listed I am in any official health care system, the better!

You can have this checked out by a doc, but don't expect any insightful treatment. There are X-rays and blood work that can confirm or discard the severeness of the attack. I think that an "official" diagnosis is never that straightforward in us since we do take care a lot of our diets. I think the most useful thing you can do now is titrating doses of vitamin C. This is what pioneer of megadose vitamin C Robert Cathcart had to say about these reactions back in 1981:

http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm

This theory begins to make some sense of the observation that many patients will develop allergic disorders or other diseases following combinations of stress, disease, and malnutrition. Immunologists should be particularly interested in the control of these allergic problems and particularly the dramatic responses of cases of ankylosing spondylitis, Reiter's disease, and acute anterior uveitis. All three of these problems have a high association with the HLA-B27 antigen. The possibility that ascorbate might have some value in controlling the immune response at the gene level should be thoroughly investigated because there could be some basic implications in histocompatibility (graft acceptance), cancer control, and destruction of foreign invaders. Ascorbate would appear to help stabilize some homeostatic mechanisms.

If it doesn't get better, I would have it checked it out though. That the hips and back don't hurt anymore is a good sign. If they continue to hurt like crazy, best to have it checked it out at least to get some hard core anti-inflammatories so the joints don't get so attacked.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...

I have been having some digestive problems for the last several days, which in turn seem to have been triggered by sleep disruption (which definitely can affect the gut), which in part was caused by hip pains while lying in bed, which are something that I regularly have trouble with in the winter and I have no idea why.

Do you have arthritis Megan? Hips are commonly one of the first affected areas for people developing arthritis and it does usually get worse in the winter due to the cold making everything stiffer. Mornings tend to be worse as well.
...

Yes, in my neck. It also started in my fingers but I dealt with that through diet changes. I have some spinal chord issues dating back to childhood that associate with hip pain, a connection that I made while in high school. The spinal chord problem, which is somewhat sensitive to weather conditions, could have arisen from early physical abuse, ~60 years ago, but that is something of which I have no direct memory (but plenty of body memory) and which I am still trying to understand. The causal chains can be very long.

This short round of digestive problems has helped me to see how much sleep can affect the GI tract and vice versa. When things don't digest quite right at an early stage in the tract, more problems can follow at each successive stage. This particular problem seems to have run its course as of this morning, and I have slept better the last two nights.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Often what's felt to be stomach is actually the esophagus or the esophagus/stomach interface area (due to irritation or bad bacteria). Lying prone in bed can make it feel worse. A little baking soda in water (instead of the pills) might be a good test if it happens again. The other thing to try might be a broad spectrum probiotic to try to overwhelm a bad bacteria issue. Maybe Psyche has some better ideas.

Thanks LQB, I will try the baking soda in future situations. I don't know whether I'll get probiotics just yet, as some brands I've taken in the past seemed to have made matters worse.
I haven't taken any pills today, which is good news. My stomach feels fine, but my gut has been playing up. In a way I'm not surprised, if there is something that affects my digestive system, my gut is always affected. I'm mildly bloated with some lower abdominal pain.

From the way you describe it sounds like a pain from the "seronegative spondylarthropathies", for instance something like ankylosing spondylitis. These peculiar name diseases speak of an autoimmune attack in the joints of your lower back/pelvis -sacrum, ileum. That it started in one hip and moved to another one and then involved your upper back is suggestive, at least to me. Even more suggestive is the attack in your stomach. As it happens, an autoimmune joint attack of this sort is often associated with inflammation in the gut, but also other parts of the body. We are talking about some serious inflammatory attack. You don't have to have the official diagnosis and all the diagnostic criteria to have an attack like you described. I would just keep in mind that there is a typical inflammatory reaction that involves all of what you just listed.

Oh no... that doesn't sound good. At all.

The raw egg does sound suspicious to me since raw eggs have antinutrients that are neutralized when cooked. Did you had something different to eat before the hip pain started?

Not that I can remember. The mayonnaise was not only made with raw egg, but also with unfiltered olive oil, could this be a problem?

What I did remember after my previous post is that one or two days before the hip pain, I had an acupuncture session that gave me the strongest pelvic pain I ever had. Well, I never had pelvic pain before, so that was new and it's not like I have a frame of reference. In any case it's something I don't want to experience again....
The pain was located right inside, I think that in my cervix, and it came in waves. By the end of the session it was finally gone, thankfully!

Now will be a good time to titrate doses of liposomal vitamin C.

Will do. I was hoping to finish the vitamin C thread before actually buying liposomal C, as I still have some ascorbic acid, but the thread is getting longer without me being able to catch up, so I'll just buy it and follow your guidelines.

If it doesn't get better, I would have it checked it out though. That the hips and back don't hurt anymore is a good sign. If they continue to hurt like crazy, best to have it checked it out at least to get some hard core anti-inflammatories so the joints don't get so attacked.

Yes, it stopped entirely. The back pain in particular came out of nowhere, and left without leaving a trace. The hip issue though, may be related to repetitive strain injury. Just before I posted I squatted down doing some house chores in a position I'm often in, and noticed a mild tingling in my left hip and knee. Interestingly, on my Monday session with my kinesiologist friend, osteopathy came up twice as something I needed doing.

I've started reading on what you have posted on "seronegative spondylarthropathies". I sure hope that I have nothing of the sort, but only time will tell. Will not having a continuous joint pain, particularly on my hips and spine, be a sign that it may not be it?
In any case, I was not aware of the full scope of these conditions, and whether I have it or not, this is very relevant material for my own job, so definitely some study is in place.
It seems that in the end all of this comes down to years, if not generations of poor diet that cause bowel inflammation and as a consequence, a myriad of autoimmune diseases.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yes, in my neck. It also started in my fingers but I dealt with that through diet changes. I have some spinal chord issues dating back to childhood that associate with hip pain, a connection that I made while in high school. The spinal chord problem, which is somewhat sensitive to weather conditions, could have arisen from early physical abuse, ~60 years ago, but that is something of which I have no direct memory (but plenty of body memory) and which I am still trying to understand. The causal chains can be very long.

Indeed, and hard to track.

Maybe a bit off track, but thinking of how the body stores physical memory, even though I love fish I have noticed a bodily reaction that if I notice a fish bone in my mouth I get nausea and have a reflex of wanting to vomit. Over the years I have completely normalized the feeling, so have only realized that it wasn't actually normal recently. Then, a few weeks ago my mother told me that as a baby I loved fish until the day I got a fish bone stuck in my throat that was hard to get out. She says that I started refusing fish from that day. I have no memory of it, but my body obviously does.

This short round of digestive problems has helped me to see how much sleep can affect the GI tract and vice versa.

Oh, definitely. Both me and my husband have all sorts of digestive or bowel issues with lack of sleep.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've started reading on what you have posted on "seronegative spondylarthropathies". I sure hope that I have nothing of the sort, but only time will tell. Will not having a continuous joint pain, particularly on my hips and spine, be a sign that it may not be it?

If it stopped, that is a reassuring sign. I would just continue with your health care plan.

BTW, I don't think it was the olive oil, but I do wonder if the raw egg just gave a kick to the inflammatory reaction.

In any case, I was not aware of the full scope of these conditions, and whether I have it or not, this is very relevant material for my own job, so definitely some study is in place.
It seems that in the end all of this comes down to years, if not generations of poor diet that cause bowel inflammation and as a consequence, a myriad of autoimmune diseases.

Exactly! I think it is an important subject to study because it is a disorder spectrum which involves specific inflammatory reactions due to a genetic predisposition plus all the crappy food people eat, not to mention the environmental toxicity. A lot of folks are having these issues in a full blown way. But others are the long time sufferers of IBS, plus they get inflammatory reactions in their eyes for apparently no good reason, and then have specific joint problems. They might not qualify for the diagnosis, but surely there is still some kind of autoimmune reaction.

It is very peculiar to notice specific joint afflictions plus specific autoimmune reactions in certain organs. It might not be the full blown disease, but it might give some clues about hidden roots, i.e. adrenal fatigue, food intolerances, a specific deficiency in one nutrient (Vitamin C!) and so forth.

Another important subject to review is "mixed connective tissue disease" which is in the lupus-like spectrum. Usually suspected in the 20s or 30s in women who have joint problems but a diagnosis of lupus is not established. They can have inflammatory reactions in the lungs and heart and still not have the criteria to be a full blown lupus. Still, it is a very much disabling autoimmune disease. You might meet a few people with that in your job.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If it stopped, that is a reassuring sign. I would just continue with your health care plan.

BTW, I don't think it was the olive oil, but I do wonder if the raw egg just gave a kick to the inflammatory reaction.

Yes, zero symptoms today, thankfully. I hadn't fully considered that what happened could have been a delayed reaction to raw egg because it affected so much my stomach. I would have thought that a reaction in my stomach would have come up earlier. It makes sense though, seeing it from the broader perspective of autoimmune reactions.

When discussing this today with my husband he said that last year I ate some home made mayonnaise that didn't made feel good, and that I had further added that I would give it some time before testing mayonnaise again. I have no memory of that though!

I'm still not fully sure of what happened, but glad that it seems to have been a one off.

Another important subject to review is "mixed connective tissue disease" which is in the lupus-like spectrum. Usually suspected in the 20s or 30s in women who have joint problems but a diagnosis of lupus is not established. They can have inflammatory reactions in the lungs and heart and still not have the criteria to be a full blown lupus. Still, it is a very much disabling autoimmune disease. You might meet a few people with that in your job.

And indeed I have. Thanks for those pointers Psyche!

What is sometimes very discouraging is that I have many clients coming to me to discuss their health issues, and I often can't say much regarding diet except to suggest that their problems may have a dietary connection. This is not just because what I say is going to go against everything they believe, but because I am not a nutritionist and don't have the authority to give nutritional suggestions in a professional setting, which could easily be taken as advise.
I have suggested articles and books, but I'm aware that people don't take my "so far out" dietary "ideas" seriously because I'm not a nutritionist. It has made me ponder taking a nutrition course and putting up with a lot of bad science just to get a diploma

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What is sometimes very discouraging is that I have many clients coming to me to discuss their health issues, and I often can't say much regarding diet except to suggest that their problems may have a dietary connection. This is not just because what I say is going to go against everything they believe, but because I am not a nutritionist and don't have the authority to give nutritional suggestions in a professional setting, which could easily be taken as advise.
I have suggested articles and books, but I'm aware that people don't take my "so far out" dietary "ideas" seriously because I'm not a nutritionist. It has made me ponder taking a nutrition course and putting up with a lot of bad science just to get a diploma

Make no mistake, Gertrudes - you know more about nutrition than most of the nutritionists I know! That's not even an exaggeration and goes for most of the regular contributors to this and the LWB thread. It would be great if we could offer some kind of accreditation/certification for keeping up with all this stuff, because it really is University level material we're delving into here in many cases.

Glad you're feeling better :D

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Make no mistake, Gertrudes - you know more about nutrition than most of the nutritionists I know! That's not even an exaggeration and goes for most of the regular contributors to this and the LWB thread. It would be great if we could offer some kind of accreditation/certification for keeping up with all this stuff, because it really is University level material we're delving into here in many cases.

Glad you're feeling better :D

Some people get an accreditation through an online University course. You can check if the diploma accredited will give you the chance to subscribe to an international official organization, i.e "The European College of Alternative Medicine" or something like that, and then that is good enough for bureaucratic and strategic enclosure purposes. But then you have to weight the pros and cons of all the BS you have to read, if you have time to debate with backed up research and so forth, plus the money it costs. Yeah, ideally we should be able to get accredited here and not through the Control System!