Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here is an interesting Mercola article I just encountered in my RSS feeds:

_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/24/healthy-microbiome.aspx

It includes an appeal to donate to a university-based, crowdfunded effort, "The American Gut Project," but in return you can learn about your own microbiota. (From the name it sounds like it is meant for US participants only, although I haven't examined the details.

Among the things I try to keep in mind when looking at articles like this one is that virtually nobody is researching gut bacteria in the context of a near-zero carb ketogenic diet. Nearly everybody agrees about "eat lots of vegetables," including the authors we have used as primary sources. In this article it is stated as "eat more plants." What I am seeing in my own personal experiment, however, is that on our kind of VLC KD, eating a few of the right kinds of selected veggies may be all that is necessary to promote healthy gut flora and their symbiotic byproducts, and that it is possible to do that without impacting ketogenesis.

But I still am very interested in the research being conducted. I am sure there can be much to learn from it.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Make no mistake, Gertrudes - you know more about nutrition than most of the nutritionists I know! That's not even an exaggeration and goes for most of the regular contributors to this and the LWB thread.

That's disheartening though...it's probably why the two nutritionist I've so far spoken have never heard of paleo not to mention a ketogenic diet, and both buy into all of the stuff that's considered healthy. No wonder people are SO RESISTANT to a different idea of healthy food. Who'd dare thinking, not t mention saying, that veggies and fruit are not that healthy? I know I'm simply repeating for the nth time what has been said here, but sometimes it does get into me since I'm faced with that reality, through my work, on a daily basis. The worse are the mums feeding crap to their babies thinking, with all good intentions, that they are doing something great! Oy, it hurts....

Glad you're feeling better :D

Thanks!

Some people get an accreditation through an online University course. You can check if the diploma accredited will give you the chance to subscribe to an international official organization, i.e "The European College of Alternative Medicine" or something like that, and then that is good enough for bureaucratic and strategic enclosure purposes. But then you have to weight the pros and cons of all the BS you have to read, if you have time to debate with backed up research and so forth, plus the money it costs. Yeah, ideally we should be able to get accredited here and not through the Control System!

Yeah, I've pondered an online course. I don't mind putting through the lies if in the end that gets me to actually reach people. My job is about people's health, but it isn't enough. I've been feeling an increasing need to broaden the scope of my understanding and ability to provide a better service. Several courses have come to mind, and probably my priority would be along the lines of Peter Levine's work and somatic therapy, which I find absolutely fascinating.

In any case, first things first. For now I don't want to commit to anything before I actually finish what I have already started, and that is to address people's health through EE. I've already introduced some of the breathing techniques into my current classes, as discussed elsewhere, and have had good responses.

 

[emilien512]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hey folks, I just wanted to make a little addition :
While looking at the high protein diet on wiki, I looked at the Rabbit starvation page (still wiki) and there was this little part :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-protein_diet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

Charles Darwin, in The Voyage of the Beagle, wrote:
We were here able to buy some biscuit. I had now been several days without tasting any thing besides meat: I did not at all dislike this new regimen; but I felt as if it would only have agreed with me with hard exercise. I have heard that patients in England, when desired to confine themselves exclusively to an animal diet, even with the hope of life before their eyes, have hardly been able to endure it. Yet the Gaucho in the Pampas, for months together, touches nothing but beef. But they eat, I observe, a very large proportion of fat, which is of a less animalized nature; and they particularly dislike dry meat, such as that of the Agouti. Dr. Richardson, also, has remarked, “that when people have fed for a long time solely upon lean animal food, the desire for fat becomes so insatiable, that they can consume a large quantity of unmixed and even oily fat without nausea:” this appears to me a curious physiological fact. It is, perhaps, from their meat regimen that the Gauchos, like other carnivorous animals, can abstain long from food. I was told that at Tandeel, some troops voluntarily pursued a party of Indians for three days, without eating or drinking.[5]

Hope that helps, it did for me, bye ;)

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

"Rabbit Starvation" and too much protein without fat has been discussed extensively in the "Life Without Bread" thread.

 

[emilien512]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Understood, I will have to read all the related threads first before posting anything and that wont happen before I while.

 

[Don Diego]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hello you all keto dieters! I come to you today because I have a kind of issue that I don't remember having heard about here. So a little update: we've been, my wife, son, daughter and me on VLC for about one year in 2011 then after KD from one year Thanks to all and the great Knowledge shared here. Needless to say that it's the best turn we've ever made in our life. All health issues cured, sharper minds, mood swings greatly diminished, my wife lost 17 Kgs, I gained 3 (performance for a skinny type!) and of course money savings.
But the other side of the coin is that my breath is awful...I could smell it by myself and some weeks ago my daugther was standing 2 meters away from me when talking to her she said : wow dad you stink! and immediatly remembered that in the very afternoon two of my co-workers offerred me twice some chewing gums...And then I realized why they keep some distance from me when we're talking and even sometimes winced. This situation is quite embarassing as I work with public and very often face to face with my manager at her desk.
So I got some xylitol chewing gum but in the long run it makes me bloat, too much saliva swallowed I guess.Is it that many ketones remain "unburnt" and escape from my lungs and why? Or because I'm a tea guzzler (2 liters/day)?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Indigestion can cause bad breath IIRC. So maybe you should try digestive enzymes? Could it have to do with an upper GI infection? Indigestion can cause that. Perhaps a saltwater flush could help it pass.

Laura said earlier that Xylitol kills off bad bacteria, so perhaps you had a die-off reaction?

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Don Diego - I'm using my phone and must be brief, but if you are keto-adapted then ketones probably aren't the source. My first thought was an upper GI issue, as monotonic mentioned. I have a similar problem dating back to my vegan days, 15 years or so ago. Try searching for SIBO, and avoid fructose like the plague.

 

[Don Diego]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for the reply monotonic; what I've understood here about digestive enzymes is that you don't need them anymore on KD in the absence of carbs to digest.I've used threelac while transitionning 2 years ago and still don't know if it really has been efficient.
Now I feel fairly well adapted, no constipation nor gazes, nauseas or troubles of any kind even if I've been thrown out of ketosis several times after "cheating" a bit with fruits or chocolate, I only felt a certain drop in my energy level but 2/3 days later it was ok again.I certainly have experienced the die-off when I've cut carbs completely and let me tell you it has been severe especially for my mood but no bad breath at all compared with now. Go figure.
I too use xylitol, maybe twice a day or to brush my teeth but never felt any improvement in my breath. Therefore saltwater I will try now although my bone broth is pretty salted!
By the way, what is IIRC?

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

 

[Don Diego]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Megan, I'm currently reading on the wiki page for SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth but all the symptoms really don't match! I have to dig a bit more elsewhere on that.
Am I alone with this issue?

 

[Beau]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for the reply monotonic; what I've understood here about digestive enzymes is that you don't need them anymore on KD in the absence of carbs to digest.

Actually digestive enzymes are still needed for lots of people on the KD. Digesting fats can be difficult for many people when first starting out the diet or for those with liver or gall bladder issues so enzymes like Betain HCI or ox bile can aid in that effort.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Megan, I'm currently reading on the wiki page for SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth but all the symptoms really don't match! I have to dig a bit more elsewhere on that.
Am I alone with this issue?

It could be something else, for instance a pharyngeal pouch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenker%27s_diverticulum) which typically gives bad breath. I'm not saying you have one, but that bad breathe could be due to things that don't necessary give problems or symptoms.

I would try apple cider vinegar in the meat and the advice that people already gave you though to see if it gets better.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

HCL and bile are not technically enzymes, I failed to make that distinction because they are usually added along with "digestive enzyme" supplements. I was meaning Ox bile and HCL (or any acid really such as vinegar or vitamin C). We should probably be more clear on this.

 

[kinyash]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What is sometimes very discouraging is that I have many clients coming to me to discuss their health issues, and I often can't say much regarding diet except to suggest that their problems may have a dietary connection. This is not just because what I say is going to go against everything they believe, but because I am not a nutritionist and don't have the authority to give nutritional suggestions in a professional setting, which could easily be taken as advise.
I have suggested articles and books, but I'm aware that people don't take my "so far out" dietary "ideas" seriously because I'm not a nutritionist. It has made me ponder taking a nutrition course and putting up with a lot of bad science just to get a diploma

Make no mistake, Gertrudes - you know more about nutrition than most of the nutritionists I know! That's not even an exaggeration and goes for most of the regular contributors to this and the LWB thread. It would be great if we could offer some kind of accreditation/certification for keeping up with all this stuff, because it really is University level material we're delving into here in many cases.

Glad you're feeling better :D

Not only is this University level material, but it is also well researched and scientifically valid. I cannot say the same regarding University accreditation. I recently attended a talk given by a university qualified "nutritionist" and I was extremely shocked at how little she knew! Basic balanced diet crap, no mention at all about toxins etc, and worst of all she strongly advised against meat except in very small portions. Her presentation was high school level IMHO

I think the best testament is how one looks. Since going on the diet (now transitioning from Paleo to zero carb) I've lost so much much weight that everyone who knows me is asking what I'm doing :) (any savings I make on the diet go straight to my tailor, but I still look like I'm walking in borrowed clothes :( I've got several friends to stop bread, gluten laden foods and manufactured carbs, and they are all getting good results. I also make sure I also give them good references ans sites so that they can pay attention and be aware of what they are doing.)

Gertrude's case is difficult because she can be seen to be giving professional advice without having the papers to back. Perhaps one solution would be to identify a paleo-keto friendly nutritionist to whom you can refer people to. That way you won't have to spend valuable time and effort reading up on pseudo science just to get some papers. Like Dugdeep says, Gertrudes contribution to this and other threads is priceless!