Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This is from marksdailyapple.com, and he recommends the paleo and other things which I don't necessarily agree with, but this brought back the possible concern of candida. I don't feel that I suffer from many of the symptoms, but I'm wondering if anyone on the KD has taken any further precautions, besides probiotics, to combat this issue... or if there is any literature on why this isn't a concern?

Hi VIJAYA,

Psyche makes a good point. Although it is long, reading the Life Without Bread thread is definitely a must before moving on to the KD. This is usually what is recommended. The thread is very informative and is well worth reading. I'm sure you would find a lot of answers to your questions... and even to some questions you did not even thought of asking yet! ;)

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thoughts about Ketosis and Candida

...Paul Jaminet..., who suffered from candida overgrowth, argues that since candida (being eukaryotes) have mitochondria that can feed on both ketones and carbs (as opposed to prokaryote bacteria without mitochondria), going very low carb or ketogenic will only provide more fuel for the overgrowth. Furthermore, since ketones are water-soluble and pass easily through cellular membranes, ketones will actually be a more accessible food source for candida. Don’t go high-carb, since any extra glucose will just be food for the yeast, but don’t go ketogenic, either. Stick to around 100-150 grams of carbs while still limiting sugar. Although other sources do recommend going as low-carb as possible, my money’s on Paul...

I don't think it's a matter of one way or the other. Jaminet developed severe symptoms while on a very low carb ketogenic diet, and he eventually cleared those up after raising his carb intake. He also, however, discovered a gut infection (bacterial, I think) which he treated with antibiotics (if I am remembering this correctly) and that may have been more the root cause of his problems than the very low carb intake.

Jaminet hypothesizes a "mucous deficiency" situation that can develop from eating very low carb, but I haven't seen any research to back that up. That's not surprising, because there is a lot of low-carb research that has not been done and may not be done any time soon, perhaps because it could be "bad for business." (Jimmy Moore's book, Cholesterol Clarity, to which Jaminet is a contributor, mentions this situation in one of the later chapters.)

At the same time, Jaminet does recommend a ketogenic diet for those that need it, although he seems to like to tweak it toward a higher level of starch intake, something that certainly can be done if you want to do that.

Jaminet provides a great deal of useful information, but he seems to be very theory-driven, making heavy use of the available research. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to take research results and apply them meaningfully to what will happen in your body if you do this or that. He does also have a large group of people following his recommendations and finding that they work for them, which provides partial validation of his take on the research, but that doesn't say much at all about what you could expect from a very low carb ketogenic diet.

When it comes to ketogenic diet, conflicting information seems to be the rule rather than the exception, and I think at least part of that arises from the fact that we all are quite different from each other in some respects and respond differently to doing the same thing. But then isn't that the way it is with health issues in general?

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thoughts about Ketosis and Candida

I was assuming (maybe wrongly) that since ketones cannot be fuel or food for cancer growth in the system, as carbs can be, that likewise ketones would also not be a source of food for candida.

After having been on a raw (high fruit) low (very low) fat vegan diet for some time, I became concerned of the candida risks if ever I were to raise the fat...

Now having switched to the KD, I did some research around Ketosis and Candida this morning and found this...

"Avoid very low carb.

Paul Jaminet [who had a candida overgrowth problem, and argues for use of "safe starches"], who suffered from candida overgrowth, argues that since candida (being eukaryotes) have mitochondria that can feed on both ketones and carbs (as opposed to prokaryote bacteria without mitochondria), going very low carb or ketogenic will only provide more fuel for the overgrowth. Furthermore, since ketones are water-soluble and pass easily through cellular membranes, ketones will actually be a more accessible food source for candida. Don’t go high-carb, since any extra glucose will just be food for the yeast, but don’t go ketogenic, either. Stick to around 100-150 grams of carbs while still limiting sugar. Although other sources do recommend going as low-carb as possible, my money’s on Paul.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/candida/#ixzz2hhkAyAlc
"


This is from marksdailyapple.com, and he recommends the paleo and other things which I don't necessarily agree with, but this brought back the possible concern of candida. I don't feel that I suffer from many of the symptoms, but I'm wondering if anyone on the KD has taken any further precautions, besides probiotics, to combat this issue... or if there is any literature on why this isn't a concern?

Hi VIJAYA,

Congratulations on the progress you've made, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I am a little confused by the bolded sentence from the article you quoted. It's my understanding that all carbs eventually become sugar by the time the digestive process is complete. It doesn't matter whether its a complex or simple carb. In the end it become some sort of "-ose", ie a sugar. Therefore the advice to "not go too low on carbs, but limit sugar" is a bit of an oxymoron, at least to me. It's been said that the average white potato breaks down into more sugar than a candy bar. How does he propose to have such a high level of carbs and still limit sugar?

***

OK, I read the transcript of the podcast where Kressar discusses this, and he is big on fermented foods (good), but he's also cool with dairy unless there is a clear individual problem with it. He's got a lot of faith in the adaptability of the gut, which seems misplaced to me. Why take decades to adapt to eating something which may be nutritious (he mentions seaweed) but is not within one's genetic profile? It seems more sensible to eat what your personal machinery can handle. Still, there are as many optimal diets as there are people. All you can do is experiment carefully on yourself, see what seems to work, and be ready to change as you get new information about your gut.

I look forward to hearing more about your journey!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yeah, as herondance mentioned, any carb that's not fiber will digest into sugar either very quickly or pretty quickly. So I never understood all this talk about eating those amounts of starches being good.

I'm also not sure how valid the candida growing fast on ketones is. I remember reading a whole bunch of stuff on this a while back and wasn't convinced if it's really a valid conclusion. I had candida problems when I was a huge carb consumer, and it really subsided when I was lowering carbs during the paleo phase (eliminating gluten and dairy). I never had a relapse since going keto and one thing I know about candida is that it is VERY opportunistic and quickly comes back with a vengence if given the chance. Just for what it's worth, that's my take on it.

 

[Rhythmik]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Why do so many people think that keto is harmful to the kidneys?

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Why do so many people think that keto is harmful to the kidneys?

Because of ignorance.

High protein diets (and the keto diet is NOT necessarily a high protein diet) are deleterious for those who ALREADY have kidney problems. People with kidney failure should limit their protein consumption to around 0.8 g of protein per kilo of ideal weight. That is same formula that is suggested for those on a keto diet by some longevity researchers.

Those who have a predisposition for kidney stones might benefit from drinking lots of water (3L or so) and taking potassium citrate.

Studies already have been done and they show that low carb diets are not dangerous to kidney health.

You can find more information if you search for "kidney" within the Life Without Bread thread using the search function of this forum.

:)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yes, as Psyche said, the ketogenic diet we're doing is high fat, moderate protein (not high protein) and very low carb. Any potential problem for those predisposed to kidney problems would only come from eating a high protein diet. In our overall macro nutrient composition, we don't eat any more protein than anyone on many other diets, maybe we eat even a little less.

 

[Kaigen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That was surprise today, I thought I never see it on that level.
Sweden thumbs up!

Sweden has become the first Western nation to develop national dietary guidelines that reject the popular low-fat diet dogma in favor of low-carb high-fat nutrition advice.

_http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sweden-becomes-first-western-nation-to-reject-low-fat-diet-dogma-in-favor-of-low-carb-high-fat-nutrition/

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That was surprise today, I thought I never see it on that level.
Sweden thumbs up!

Sweden has become the first Western nation to develop national dietary guidelines that reject the popular low-fat diet dogma in favor of low-carb high-fat nutrition advice.

_http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sweden-becomes-first-western-nation-to-reject-low-fat-diet-dogma-in-favor-of-low-carb-high-fat-nutrition/

Here is another coverage of the story:

Fat trims your waistline
http://www.sott.net/article/267187-Fat-trims-your-waistline

:)

 

[Kaigen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That was surprise today, I thought I never see it on that level.
Sweden thumbs up!

Sweden has become the first Western nation to develop national dietary guidelines that reject the popular low-fat diet dogma in favor of low-carb high-fat nutrition advice.

_http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sweden-becomes-first-western-nation-to-reject-low-fat-diet-dogma-in-favor-of-low-carb-high-fat-nutrition/

Here is another coverage of the story:

Fat trims your waistline
http://www.sott.net/article/267187-Fat-trims-your-waistline

:)

That's cool Psyche! :D
Now sharing! :D

 

[Goemon_]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Searching for well fed pigs arround here, it seems that there is only two ways used by organic farmers : grains or whey (plus some grains).

Does anybody hs an idea if it would be a better choice to eat whey's raised pigs ?

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Searching for well fed pigs arround here, it seems that there is only two ways used by organic farmers : grains or whey (plus some grains).

Does anybody hs an idea if it would be a better choice to eat whey's raised pigs ?

The best feed for hogs is the natural fauna available over plenty of land - grass, vines, nuts, roots, etc. Grains are typically used as supplements for fattening and when there is not enough natural forage. Whey-feeding is also a good option (supplement). But the best whey-like feed supplement is curdled raw milk (in which the cream has been removed - usually for butter production). The pigs love the stuff - only the large un-neutured boars lose their taste for it. Many think whey-fed pork is the best tasting.

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Searching for well fed pigs arround here, it seems that there is only two ways used by organic farmers : grains or whey (plus some grains).

Does anybody hs an idea if it would be a better choice to eat whey's raised pigs ?

The best feed for hogs is the natural fauna available over plenty of land - grass, vines, nuts, roots, etc. Grains are typically used as supplements for fattening and when there is not enough natural forage. Whey-feeding is also a good option (supplement). But the best whey-like feed supplement is curdled raw milk (in which the cream has been removed - usually for butter production). The pigs love the stuff - only the large un-neutured boars lose their taste for it. Many think whey-fed pork is the best tasting.

Did you ever hear that whey-fed pigs become aggressive?

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Did you ever hear that whey-fed pigs become aggressive?

Never heard that one N2f - the only aggression I've seen is the mad rush to get some before its all gone. On the farm here, we collect excess milk from the Amish, and let it sit for a day or two until it curdles up nicely. This milk is always raw.

 

[Piotr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi
As Laura suggested to me some time ago I am writing here what's going on.
My girlfriend (Joanna) has a brain tumour, oligodendroglioma on the left hemisphere. It is not first one. In 2008 she was diagnosed with oligodendroglioma II degree, had surgery. Doctors told her that it is very unlikely for a tumour to appear again. She was back then in Germany (in Germany had surgery). She came back to Poland in 2010. Almost in the same time we have meet, she started to have a prickling sansations in her right leg. She remembered that it is possible after a surgery. She was also told that there might by a epilepsy attack (due to scars on brain) - she didn't have any. At least not till October 2012. She had strong epilepsy attack at work. Lost conscientious and had problem with putting word together and understanding people. It didn't last long fortunately. MRT showed that tumour came back. We decided that she will go back to Germany (she have parents there), here our health care and social help is speechless. She also wanted to consult the situation with her doctor. She got pills for epilepsy attacks and waited for surgery. After surgery (11.2012) diagnose was III degree of oligodendroglioma. Prognoses were bad - he can come back, start to grow again and is life threatening. As much as we knew about chemotherapy and irradiation we didn't even consider it. In april of 2013 Joanna had next MRT. Results were good, no tumour or at least nothing that could be so much significant to be consider as tumour. She was for all that time taking pills for epilepsy attacks. Until June she had one very light attacks, or something that she could compare to such thing, as she told me. In June she had another strong attack. Got scarde and as I was proposing started to lower the carbs more and more. But it wasn't as much as in ketogenic diet. Was about 40-80 grams, more or less per day. On my visit in September She had another attack, didn't lost conscientious but attack was pretty strong. Until that time we decided to go on try ketogenic diet. I have read what is what about KD. Didn't get trough all pages here in this topic, was searching for vital informations, what to do and how it can help. I hoped for the best, couldn't get true scientific papers here from the list, but did understood some of it, and I have read your quotations. I am now at page 10 but it goes slow (work, school, practice or apprenticeship - don't know which word is correct ;/). Going full ketogenic with a very very small amounts of carbs, mostly from vegetables we were observing what is going on (both of us went KD). After a month came next epilepsy attack. As Joanna told me, in it, at some point She just told to here self "let go", and lost conscientious. That was a fact which started to bring a doubt that Keto might be a solution. Well, I was thinking that it was just a moth, maybe we need to go on longer. But with time Joanna is starting to feel worse and worse. Can't concentrate for a longer time, have mood jumps. Well that was also before, but is getting stronger and stronger. She feels weaker and weaker with every week. We don't talk too much on skype, as before. It's hard for me, but I can't even imagine how hard it is for here. She lost hope. We are considering the worst. I wasn't sure to write to you or not, as I can't see what else we might do, but I still have a hope. Maybe I am missing something, maybe we should add something to the diet, as for example hyperbaric oxygen therapy, thou I am not oriented if it's an option for Joanna, I mean that it might be hard to get one. Maybe we need to give a time for Keto to do its job? Maybe this weakening is also due to diet changes and changes in the body? Oh, and one more thing, from last days Joanna is losing here appetite. Don't feel hungry so much and eats less.
As I said, I didn't get through all pages of this treat, but I feel like time is running out. I'm sure you know more than I, so if you have any suggestions, tips, links, I am open to all.
If you need more details I can provide them.

thanks,
Peter