Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for all your input about the cravings. Thinking about it, it is probably indeed a mixture of not enough fat and more carbs than usual (and the weaning off of the novelty effect).

Starting with the diet I kept the carbs under 10gr. for a month - no cravings at all. Recently, however, I slacked in this area, and even though I am still under 50gr, but less strict than before. I abandoned the fat bombs because I wanted to lose weight and couldn't lose any while having them. So now I did lose the weight I can reintroduce them.

Thanks, M.T.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What do you guys think about blending bones and using the powder in a shake instead of bone broth? I can't seem to find any data about the bioavailability of minerals if bones are powdered vs boiled. I'm thinking of adding them into a shake out of almond/coconut milk, some chocolate, and some blackberries. But if bone powder provides just as much benefit as broth, I would just sprinkle it on food (say chicken) like salt. Any thoughts?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SAO said:
What do you guys think about blending bones and using the powder in a shake instead of bone broth? I can't seem to find any data about the bioavailability of minerals if bones are powdered vs boiled. I'm thinking of adding them into a shake out of almond/coconut milk, some chocolate, and some blackberries. But if bone powder provides just as much benefit as broth, I would just sprinkle it on food (say chicken) like salt. Any thoughts?

I would suspect that to be quite harsh on your gut ... Sorry for the comparison, but if we feed too much bones to our dog, which grinds them up and swallows them, its feces are totally dry and crumbly. Why not go down the broth way?

:)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SAO said:
What do you guys think about blending bones and using the powder in a shake instead of bone broth? I can't seem to find any data about the bioavailability of minerals if bones are powdered vs boiled. I'm thinking of adding them into a shake out of almond/coconut milk, some chocolate, and some blackberries. But if bone powder provides just as much benefit as broth, I would just sprinkle it on food (say chicken) like salt. Any thoughts?

also it seems that vinegar is the one agent that draws nutrients out of the bones during the sloooooooow cooking process, so I am not sure how beneficial would powdered bones really be... :/
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Christophe said:
SAO said:
What do you guys think about blending bones and using the powder in a shake instead of bone broth? I can't seem to find any data about the bioavailability of minerals if bones are powdered vs boiled. I'm thinking of adding them into a shake out of almond/coconut milk, some chocolate, and some blackberries. But if bone powder provides just as much benefit as broth, I would just sprinkle it on food (say chicken) like salt. Any thoughts?

also it seems that vinegar is the one agent that draws nutrients out of the bones during the sloooooooow cooking process, so I am not sure how beneficial would powdered bones really be... :/

Agreed. Ideally, by the time your bone broth is done the bones should be nearly devoid of most the their mineral content. So, having the bone powder wouldn't really give any benefits. When I picture someone eating bone powder I get the image of a blocked bowel. Not good. And it wouldn't be doing your blender any favors either.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If what is left of the bones is primarily calcium, it may actually be detrimental as you may be consuming too much calcium.

I looked into calcium when considering the benefits for teeth, and found a thing where you drop whole eggs in vinegar (shells on) wait for the shell to dissolve and drink a shot of the vinegar daily - see below - the problem (i think) with this is you'll throw the Magnesium/Calcium balance off. Apparently we have more than enough in our diets.
High-quality eggshells contain 27 essential microelements but they’re mostly composed of calcium carbonate, a form and structure that’s very similar to our bones and teeth. - See more at: _http://www.mamanatural.com/how-to-make-eggshell-calcium/#sthash.tshYkzJD.dpuf
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article ...

The first interesting part describes how KD, fish-oil supplemented diet and calorie restriction has a different effect in rodents and in humans. This is interesting for potentially translating study results from rodents to humans.

Conflicting results on blood lipid and glucose levels were reported in humans and mice on the ketogenic diet.

In adults on the ketogenic diet, triglyceride levels remain unchanged or are lowered, whereas cholesterol levels remain unchanged, are lowered, or are increased [24-27]. The ketogenic diet increases plasma triglyceride and cholesterol levels in children [28]. Fasting glucose in both adults and children remains unchanged or is lowered on the ketogenic diet [27,29-33], whereas the blood ketones are consistently increased [34]. In mice, the ketogenic diet decreases plasma triglyceride levels while in- creasing cholesterol levels [35,36]. Increased, decreased, or no change in plasma glucose levels were reported in mice on the ketogenic diet [13,18,35]. As in children, plasma ketone levels are consistently elevated in mice on ketogenic diets [18,35].

Supplementation with fish-oil leads to more consistent effects on blood lipid and glucose levels, compared to the ketogenic diet. Blood triglyceride levels decrease, whereas total cholesterol levels remain unchanged in humans [37-41]. Fasting glucose levels are unchanged in non-diabetic individuals, but are increased in type-2 diabetic individuals that supplement with fish-oil [39-41]. Blood ketone levels remain unchanged after supplementation with fish-oil [42]. Fish-oil supplemented and de- rived diets in mice reduce total plasma cholesterol and either decrease or have no effect on plasma triglyceride levels [43-45]. Fasting glucose in mice remains unchanged or is decreased in mice given fish-oil supplemented or derived diets [44-46]. Hepatic ketogenesis increased in rats fed a fish-oil-supplemented diet, due to decreased lipogenesis and increase in fatty acid oxidation [47].

Calorie restriction is a long-studied dietary modality that is often used in conjunction with the ketogenic diet to treat a variety of neurological disorders [48], and is used as a prophylactic for cardiovascular disorders and other pathologies [49-51]. Calorie restriction in humans leads to consistent reductions in total cholesterol and triglyceride levels [52-54], while blood glucose levels are consistently lowered [52,53] and plasma ketone body levels are increased [55,56]. In mice, calorie restriction leads to either a decrease or no change in plasma total cholesterol and triglyceride levels [35,57]. Calorie restriction in mice generally leads to a decrease in plasma glucose levels and increase in plasma ketone body levels [13,18,57,58], although there are reports showing glucose levels can remain unchanged with calorie restriction [35], and ketone body levels remaining unchanged or even decreasing with calorie restriction [35,59].

The second interesting part is the one about calorie restriction.

The macronutrient composition of various diets plays an important role when the diet is fed ad libitum, as our data showed for body weight, hormones, and plasma metabolites. CR, however, has a dominant and independent effect on body weight, hormones, and plasma metabolites, compared to macronutrient composition. Our data suggest that CR may be more appropriate for improving health outcomes than shifting macronutrient ratios, especially when using dietary therapy to treat metabolic diseases [13,18].

What they did in this study is compare the three above mentioned diets in an ad libitum feeding pattern (the mice could eat as much as they wanted) and in a calorie restricted pattern, which overall showed improved benefits on health markers.

My own experience on the KD has been that after a dramatic loss of weight in the first 12 - 18 months I have started to again gain weight a bit. So now I have incorporated intermittent fasting (IF) into my diet again and I'll see what happens. But it might well be that KD alone is not sufficient. What would be interesting to research were to include IF (which typically doesn't necessarily reduce caloric content, but just limits the time you have for eating to a certain period of time) in the above study. Or maybe it is so, that you have to combine KD and calorie restriction to get maximum benefits. Another hunch is that KD might make it much easier to sustain IF due to the loss of cravings and hunger pangs.

The full study can be downloaded here.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

SAO said:
What do you guys think about blending bones and using the powder in a shake instead of bone broth? I can't seem to find any data about the bioavailability of minerals if bones are powdered vs boiled. I'm thinking of adding them into a shake out of almond/coconut milk, some chocolate, and some blackberries. But if bone powder provides just as much benefit as broth, I would just sprinkle it on food (say chicken) like salt. Any thoughts?

Well it's certainly not the most pleasant thing to eat, and I agree that broth is probably enough. If you have a garden, you can grind them up and sprinkle them all around. I've been doing since January an the garden has exploded with life and colour this year, far more than previous years.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ok makes sense. I just thought blending the bones in a blender into a fine powder would make them bio available and make it a good alternative to broth, and it's a lot quicker to do. But I'm not sure the body can truly deal with bone matter even in powder form and get all the fat and minerals out of it. Bone broth it is! I'll try a slow cooker to keep it warm, as sometimes I just don't want to spend time re-heating the broth, so I was just looking for a quick alternative :)

It does seem like bones would not be the most natural thing for your body to eat in their normal state, so I'd feel nervous eating them even blended. Thanks for the thoughts!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

For those who are interested, this newsletter post from Dr. Carolyn Dean (author of the Magnesium Miracle) on the excess of calcium may be interesting: Too Much Calcium IS Bad for Your Heart. Considering the many minerals in bone broth, I think that is the best supplement for our bones.

SAO said:
Ok makes sense. I just thought blending the bones in a blender into a fine powder would make them bio available and make it a good alternative to broth, and it's a lot quicker to do. But I'm not sure the body can truly deal with bone matter even in powder form and get all the fat and minerals out of it. Bone broth it is! I'll try a slow cooker to keep it warm, as sometimes I just don't want to spend time re-heating the broth, so I was just looking for a quick alternative :)

Keeping the broth in a slow cooker seems like a nice solution. I usually take a small amount from the fridge and heat it up in a small pan.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Minas Tirith said:
I would like to share some observations about sweet cravings. Please take them with a grain of salt (or more - you need the sodium :D), they are just subjective musings, and suggestions are welcome, of course.

When starting with the diet, I didn't have any cravings, probably owing to the novelty of the "new lifestyle", and the excitement about it, but now, a couple of months into it, they are hitting me hard. I found these strategies helpful:

1. Smoke a cigarette
2. Keep a batch of Chateau chocolates around, if you crave chocolate, you can actually have it, and there are no second thoughts of running to the next store and getting a Kitkat bar
3. Work on your emotional background: Are you having the cravings in particular situations? Are they connected to specific feelings? Depression, sadness, filling a void? Boredom or "rewarding yourself"?
4. Work on your hormonal issues - are the cravings hitting during a particular time in your cycle? (I recently started to use Progesterone cream again, but cannot yet report results)
5. Ponder the consequences: If you give in, you will feel very sick. And you've been there before, haven't you? And you want to be there again? Think about it, really?
6. Eat a couple of slices of red or green chilli peppers (in my case this kills the craving immediately). Chilli peppers are nightshades, but compared to running to the next store and buying the aforementioned Kitkat bar, maybe the better option for people without sensitivities

M.T.

Also, if I have chocolate cravings I take a Mg supplement and (for those who practise reiki) visualise the 'Sei He Ki' symbol
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have started the fat diet since 12 days now. I have had some bad moments, as I felt without force, like numb ( but not comfortably - sorry Pink Floyd...) and a bit mental confused. It was hard the first days to eat so much fat except for almond's butter that I was craving for.
Even if I have no problem at all to suppress grain-food and cereals, it is more difficult to avoid veggies and fruits ( and my garden is full of cherries, strawberries, and later in summer : plums :cry: ) I try to be reasonable and eat small quantities but it must be reduced.

Today, I fell quite well ( better than the others days). And I have already noticed some changes : my skin looks better and the rashes I get all the time on my head is disappearing. It seems also that my sinus are less obstructed.

I have begun pipe breathing too ( 2 times per day and soon I will make the whole EE).

So, maybe soon in good form !
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

stardust said:
except for almond's butter that I was craving for.

I just like almond's butter too and in order to increase my fat intake, I mix it with coconut flakes. Totally delicious.

If it is something that interests you, I can give you my recipe. However you need a good food processor to make it (Vitamix, thermomix....)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gandalf said:
stardust said:
except for almond's butter that I was craving for.

I just like almond's butter too and in order to increase my fat intake, I mix it with coconut flakes. Totally delicious.

If it is something that interests you, I can give you my recipe. However you need a good food processor to make it (Vitamix, thermomix....)

I'd be very interested in the recipe!
:)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

stardust said:
( and my garden is full of cherries, strawberries, and later in summer : plums :cry: )

You can mix these into your fat bomb custard, see here
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35043.0.html (MK Scarlett).

I didn't know almond butter was okay, thought it had too many carbs, but it seems to be fine (3 for a tbsp). It reminds me of the time when I switched to Paleo, had it with rice toast then ...

M.T
 

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