Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Minas Tirith]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would need some help.

I went Keto last April, had a lot of beneficial health effects, but due to extreme external circumstances and not having my own ways to cook went back to the old really bad ways, with yes, sugar and some, though minimal gluten.

Now I feel everything is messed up and worse than before. In April I transferred from Paleo, relatively easily, two days of Keto-flu and that was it, after that never felt so good in my life before.

Now I can hardly eat anything, and I think I somehow damaged my gut with reverting back to the old ways. I eat bacon and eggs in the morning, which is fine, but cannot really digest much else during the day and feel repulsed by most foods (and also fat). When food is in, it sits like a stone - digestion is normal, though, and regular.

Any ideas how to start again, slowly? I knew what I did was a BIG mistake, but my situation was difficult.
I tried to jump into Keto again, but feel sick after eating fat. Back in spring had no problem to just eat a chunk of butter ...

Thanks for advice,

M.T. :/

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, that's unfortunate, but all you can do now is deal with the situation. All is lessons, after all. Hopefully you are now in a place where you can have more control over what you eat.

The gluten/casein is going to take about six months to leave your system, so the very best thing you can do to begin with, is stop eating those substances, along with sugar. You already know that trying to go full-on back into keto isn't going to work. Did you do a paleo diet for a while the first time? It's usually an easy transition then.

Have you read Keto-Adapted by Maria Emmerich? She does recommend jumping right into keto and straight off the SAD diet too , but gives tips on how to do it, and good supplement recommendations to deal with the hiccups. That you can eat breakfast is a good start. If you don't feel like eating after that, then don't. You'll know when you're hungry again. There's a series of good posts about intermittent fasting right above yours. You can keep the protein a little higher, and re-introduce higher levels of fats slowly, till your liver and gall bladder get the idea.

You've been there once. You can get back. Here's some dancing bacon for encouragement!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yup, herondancer gives good guidance. Also make sure to avoid egg whites. Just to clarify, I think you did say that you went from paleo to keto back in April, right, Minas Tirith? Also, it's just a detail, but I think it's more accurate to say that the inflammation and reactions in the body can take up to 6 months to completely subside, rather than the actual gluten or casein taking that long to leave the body. The good news is that the negative affects of sugar take only a couple of days to end from last consumption.

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Fluffy, the telltale sign of being keto adapted is that you're never hungry (and mean never), but some people do get hungry after a while, and you saying that you've been like that to some extent before the ketogenic diet, is going to make that aspect questionable. The energy and ability to concentrate for very long periods of time is the other telltale sign. So look for that, I guess.

I'd just add that the flavor of the hunger should be different. When not adapted, some may have what I call the grumpy hungries where the feeling is "I need to eat now!". This is opposed to feeling more like "I could eat, but it's not urgent." One is more emotional than the other.

Okay I'm noticing that for sure. The hunger doesn't hurt like it used to when I intermittently fasted being a sugar burner and if I'm awake through the night my stomach doesn't grumble. I still feel a hunger of sorts but there is no urgency and I can forget about it or barely notice it if I'm busy. I do look forward to eating nevertheless, and I think about food a lot regardless of if I need any or not.

I'm still dealing with programming that makes me think about sweet things. I definitely don't crave things anymore though, I just think 'oh remember the days' :) . It's kinda like I've lost my innocence (ignorance!!!)

 

[Fluffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would need some help.

I went Keto last April, had a lot of beneficial health effects, but due to extreme external circumstances and not having my own ways to cook went back to the old really bad ways, with yes, sugar and some, though minimal gluten.

Now I feel everything is messed up and worse than before. In April I transferred from Paleo, relatively easily, two days of Keto-flu and that was it, after that never felt so good in my life before.

Now I can hardly eat anything, and I think I somehow damaged my gut with reverting back to the old ways. I eat bacon and eggs in the morning, which is fine, but cannot really digest much else during the day and feel repulsed by most foods (and also fat). When food is in, it sits like a stone - digestion is normal, though, and regular.

Any ideas how to start again, slowly? I knew what I did was a BIG mistake, but my situation was difficult.
I tried to jump into Keto again, but feel sick after eating fat. Back in spring had no problem to just eat a chunk of butter ...

Thanks for advice,

M.T. :/

I would just recommend staring off really light on the fat and increase it slowly over a few weeks or even months depending on how you feel.
That's just from personal experience of being an on and off ketoer for the last year. It seemed each time I got back on keto I was a little more repulsed by fat than the time before. This time has been about 3-4 months and it's taken me most of that time to feel any good, it's only been the last two weeks that I can really tolerate fat without feeling sick, so I'm really getting into it now, nomnom.

I'll second that Maria Emmerich's book is good especially if you have heaps of spare cash to buy all the supplements she suggests. I managed to get through with out most of them so they're not all essential but would speed up the healing process.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would need some help.

I went Keto last April, had a lot of beneficial health effects, but due to extreme external circumstances and not having my own ways to cook went back to the old really bad ways, with yes, sugar and some, though minimal gluten.

Now I feel everything is messed up and worse than before. In April I transferred from Paleo, relatively easily, two days of Keto-flu and that was it, after that never felt so good in my life before.

Now I can hardly eat anything, and I think I somehow damaged my gut with reverting back to the old ways. I eat bacon and eggs in the morning, which is fine, but cannot really digest much else during the day and feel repulsed by most foods (and also fat). When food is in, it sits like a stone - digestion is normal, though, and regular.

Any ideas how to start again, slowly? I knew what I did was a BIG mistake, but my situation was difficult.
I tried to jump into Keto again, but feel sick after eating fat. Back in spring had no problem to just eat a chunk of butter ...

Thanks for advice,

M.T. :/

Along with what has been suggested, I'm wondering if you are taking things like HCI Betaine and/or ox bile? These do help to digest the foods you are eating and by the way you describe it by the food just sitting in your stomach, it sounds, to me, like there is not enough acid in your stomach, etc.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I suggest milk thistle, to help clear out the liver.

 

[mugacoffee]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It sounds like maybe too much fat too soon. What forms are you taking your fat? The coffee-choc fat bomb is the best thing you'll ever eat.

Jamie

 

[Minas Tirith]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for all replies. Much appreciated. I cut out gluten and coffee in 2010 (before meeting the forum) and went Paleo in 2011 (after meeting the forum). I read Emmerich in April and gave the book away before we moved, so I will get it again. I agree it's very helpful.

I don't know why it's so difficult this time, shouldn't it become easier? My diet was pretty messed up in the last months, so I guess it's like starting from zero.

At the moment I am fasting intermittently - unvoluntarily, though, because I can't really eat - esp. in the evenings. But I feel it's doing me a lot of good, maybe it's the time to heal.

Did anybody ever use Maria Emmrichs meal plans? They are expensive, but maybe worth it? I looked at her website yesterday and she has developed new plans that sound interesting with under 50gr carbs per day.

Again thanks,

M.T.

 

[Chad]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for all replies. Much appreciated. I cut out gluten and coffee in 2010 (before meeting the forum) and went Paleo in 2011 (after meeting the forum). I read Emmerich in April and gave the book away before we moved, so I will get it again. I agree it's very helpful.

I don't know why it's so difficult this time, shouldn't it become easier? My diet was pretty messed up in the last months, so I guess it's like starting from zero.

From what i remember of previous exchanges on the Keto threads M.T you had a pretty good handle on what to eat, it just sounds like you say, that you've disrupted your gut again. And it may be that you're particularly sensitive and therefore are just stuck with another transition to keto! :D I can appreciate that it isn't easy to follow if you don't have the luxury of planning or you're own space to prepare, or you're so busy with a big thing that you're not even thinking about what to eat, so it is understandable. But i reckon there was a bit of free will cheating going on! And perhaps you haven't shaken this off yet hence the continued cognitive issues with transitioning. We know that bad food leads to bad thinking, and bad bacteria crave bad food, so noticing this issue may help.

To me, it sounds like you need the digestive enzymes - since you're struggling even to face fat - and probiotics to encourage a healthy gut environment. Apparently if you're tending to your gut garden the dysregulation and inflammation will be lessened and perhaps that will help with any will power/emotional eating issues, as well as repairing the damage.

But i recognise the 'sits like a stone' feeling, i got it when i transitioned and was a familiar experience before, now i get it if i'm super tired and eat, or i take magnesium too close to eating, and for me it was the digestion issue.

I think sausages and pate may be another good way to sneak in fat without having to 'taste' it. Plus they're transportable if it's not blazing hot, and already seasoned, so having them close by for when you're hunger pangs strike may be a good idea.

So i'd just say, you've acknowledged any error and you have the know how, it's just about accepting it and getting back on board. And, if necessary, pushing past the blocks. :) I'm no expert - in any field - so just fwiw.

 

[ggen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Minas Tirith

Great advice so far.
I just wanted to add that bone broth would probably also be of great benefit for you right now.

 

[mugacoffee]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

My raw (unpasterurised) Sauerkraut came today and I tried it for the first time as a side-dish to a small steak. I quite liked it and will continue eating it and see how my slightly irritated bowels respond.

I was wondering..is my keto diet also a anti-candida diet?

Jamie

 

[fabric]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

One thing ya'll might want to try is broth with sauerkraut in it. I find it really adds flavor to the broth and it helps with the fattiness as well as digestion. I typically add about 25-30grams of lard to the broth but it can be tough to down sometimes since it is so fatty. Adding the sauerkraut to it helps with making it more palatable. Though I'm now kinda spoiled and don't really enjoy broth on its own anymore as much as I used to. If you can tolerate it, kimchi is also good with broth.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I like the idea of using sauerkraut (or other ferment) brine in bone broth, because it has a lot of lactic acid (along with other acids such as vitamin C) which produces mostly benign and bioavailable mineral salts. At the same time, sauerkraut brine typically has plenty of salt in it which tends to keep the minerals in the bones. Sauerkraut can be made without salt however. Hmm...

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yes, the ketogenic diet is anti-candida, because candida thrives on any sugar that goes into your body. Candida however is a survivor and it jams itself into every nook and cranny in your body, so even after most of it has been killed or forced into hiding by eliminating carbs, it can come back in force if you feed it.

I wonder how much candida is left over and if it can negatively affect ketosis even after being carb-free.