Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Cosmos]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

regarding the fat digestion problems many of you have I think there could be another possibility why that happens.

I'm not doing the Kentonic protocol yet but have been on a almost zero carb/high fat and protein diet for many moths now (I guess it is close to one year now). what I experience seems to suggest that I can't tolarate that much lard or Butter (I don't eat butter anymore). when I eat only one table spoon of Lard (wich is homemade) my belly pretty quick feels like there is a stone in it and I get nausea and sometimes diarrhea. but when I eat the fat from pigs feets for example I can eat a ton of it and I don't have any of the symptoms like I get from the lard.

so I thought about what the difference between the lard and the pigs feet fat might be wich could explaine why I can digest tho one thing so good and the other so bad.

the only big difference that comes to my mind is the way it is made/cooked in both cases. the lard is melted by fairly high temperatures in a pan and the feets are slowly cooked by comparable low temperatures with water until they get squashy.

maybe the high temperatures that are produced while you make lard cause the fat to be not that well tolerated by the body?
maybe the fat becomes "damaged" by those high temperatures (isn't butter also made with fairly high temperatures?)?

I'm still experimenting so I'm not that sure (as of yet) if that might play a role in the digistions problems we experience or not, but I thought I share it.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Lately i have been consuming bicardonate de soude to bring the bloods ph level up a bite, mixed with (16 oz.) filtered water, and a fizzy of magnesium.

This really comes in handy when there is the experience of acid reflex. It neutralizes the issue pretty quirk re-leaving the symptoms of the acid in the throat, and settles the stomach as well.

What i have noticed with the efforts of this diet is that wounds, heal rather quirky, and my nails grow, or seem to grow faster. Also i have not been seriously sick for a while, maybe a year after i took more responsibly to what i was eating.

I sleep better having made the last meal a salad (try not eat after 1800 hours) with some form of fat mix in (bacon bits, or a hard boiled egg, or ground sausage or anchovies).

I also seem to drag in the afternoon at times as well, and take light nape for about an hour, and a cold shower to boot, which helps to re-energizer my afternoon to finish the days work, and or prepare for the exercise routine that will move to 2, to 3 hours if aim mentally, and physically alert.

But need to move to more fat, and less carbs, as i still consume 2 buckwheat pancakes for breakfast, with coffee, and bacon, with scrambled egg whites, followed by copious amounts of water to help stimulate a good bow movement. This meal will last a long time, and only feel hunger as for a snack, like a salad in the afternoon.

A while back i was having a shoulder problem. If i were to face you with my arms at a 45 degree angle, palms out, and then make a sweeping motion to my left, there would be a pain that would radiate at the shoulder cap, that was so intense that it would have me doubled over grimacing. It was as if the whole shoulder was put in a vise, and a pressure was being applied, lasting for a good 5 seconds.

So desperate to find a solution that i turned to the sting weed that grows abundantly wild here, and applied a couple of leaves to the area where the pain was the most intense. After doing this a number times over a one mouth period, it seemed to have had positive effects, which may have been a circulation issue.

Yes itchy, some pain with the weeds tiny fibers , but not as bad as the problem. The weed even felt like it had an aseptic properties to it as the pain in the shoulder diminish with each application.

The problem eventually stopped.

It is also editable, and makes a good tea.
_http://www.yumsugar.com/Stinging-Nettles-22524797


Home and Garden
_http://www.naturalhomeandgarden.com/blogs/blog.aspx?blogid=2147483735&tag=detox

Arthritis: Nettles have been used for centuries to treat arthritis. When applied to fingers and other affected areas, nettles can reduce arthritic pain—so much so that 85 percent of participants in a study at the University of Plymouth in England reported that the pain relief from applying nettles was significant enough to endure the sting and welts caused by the leaves. Nettles contain the neuro-transmitters serotonin and histamine, which may be responsible for the weed’s pain relieving qualities. Nettles can also be used to treat other types of pain, such as sore muscles.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

regarding the vinegar I just want to point out that alot of the brands contain wheat and other evil stuff

so you might want to check closely what type of vinegar you are using.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...If i understand correctly, the more cells have O², the more cells are efficients to use lipid. In the opposite, If we are on hypoxia, the cell use first glucose.
If we suppose many people are on hypoxia because of contaminant, pollution and all crazy things that we know, we could see another limiting factor...

I am still trying to understand this myself, but there seem to be three basic pathways to ADP phosphorylation. The most familiar one is the sugar-burning (and ROS-generating) one using aerobic glycolysis in the cytoplasm to feed OXPHOS. The one we are most interested in here feeds OXPHOS with fatty acids. The third is anaerobic glycolysis in the cytoplasm -- basically fermentation -- as I understand it so far. When O2 is low, the inefficient anaerobic process can kick in.

While it works well in bacteria, I gather that it is more of a short-term survival mechanism in humans, although I suppose it plays a role in anaerobic exercise as well. I don't know-I am still sorting through seemingly conflicting (and often simplified) accounts trying to understand it. I am also trying to understand the regulatory role of CO2, but I haven't gotten anywhere with that yet. Like ROS, it may have a positive function.

Yes, I've been trying to make sense of all this, too. I've been looking for articles, videos, even books, that give simple step by step accounts of how cellular metabolism actually works. I managed to find a helpful series of videos that really cover the basics well. I think everyone unfamiliar with the nitty-gritty of cellular respiration should check out these videos. It will give a good primer for many of the atricles that have been posted in this thread so far.

The first vid is an overview and could probably be skipped if someone is short on time (although it is helpful), but the last three really get into the meat of it. You'll also notice that the vids come from a 'glucose bias', as it were, since glucose is commonly thought to be the main source of fuel for running the human organism. We know better though ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=2f7YwCtHcgk&NR=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juM2ROSLWfw&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=mfgCcFXUZRk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=W_Q17tqw_7A

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

c.a., I have NO idea why you are posting in this thread since you are not on the ketogenic diet.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

A technical question: I discovered that also my main fat source contains carbs. Or it is a general thing that butter has about 0.5-0.7 carbs per 100g. Should I look for the time for another source? Or is it already low enough eating about 1.4gr carbs a day? My ketones are tonight at about 4,6mmol/l for the first day without carbs (beside the butter) and my legs are pretty weak.

Hey Gawan, I don't think that small amount of carbs really matters. Sometimes I have a bit of cooked onions and garlic mixed in my fatty meat which I tolerate well and which contain a small amount of carbs as well, and I haven't experienced any problems yet. Though others may know better. Just one point about the butter. May I ask if there is a reason you're having butter as your main fat source instead of rendered lard or tallow or maybe even rendered veal fat? I've noticed that even though I can tolerate butter, it is not as near as energizing as rendered animal fat. Which is also why I decided at some point not to eat butter anymore. Maybe, if you want, you can check out your sources and render some fat yourself and experiment on that a little?

Also if you're feeling you're going really low-carb too fast, you could perhaps lower the amount of carbs a bit more slowly? I'm not sure though how much carbs you ate before you went near 0 carbs. Here is what someone wrote here as a comment that may be helpful:

I think the reason the ADA wants diabetics to cut down on carbs gradually is that it can be very dangerous if their diabetic meds (especially insulin) are not adjusted correctly to match the new carb intake.

Even an experienced endocrinologist can’t really know how any given person’s insulin needs will decrease when their carb intake lowers dramatically.

Instead of complicating their instructions, they just apply this to all diabetics. But for people taking NO diabetic meds or only Metformin, there should be no need to decrease carbs slowly.

Almost every other oral med causes a forced increase in insulin levels NOT related to blood sugar, so hypoglycemia can easily result.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...You'll also notice that the vids come from a 'glucose bias', as it were, since glucose is commonly thought to be the main source of fuel for running the human organism. We know better though ;)...

I am running into this "glucose bias" everywhere! It gives me a creepy feeling--I think this is sophisticated manipulation, not an oversight. But we can at least learn to read the research for ourselves, and it is good to see that others are noticing this phenomenon, and not just those of us here in the forum.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...You'll also notice that the vids come from a 'glucose bias', as it were, since glucose is commonly thought to be the main source of fuel for running the human organism. We know better though ;)...

I am running into this "glucose bias" everywhere! It gives me a creepy feeling--I think this is sophisticated manipulation, not an oversight. But we can at least learn to read the research for ourselves, and it is good to see that others are noticing this phenomenon, and not just those of us here in the forum.

Amen. Who would have ever thought we would find this level of utter and absolute incompetence in science, especially the science of our health and well-being? It's like psychopathy EVERYWHERE. Greed runs the show from the ground up and pollutes every aspect of our existence.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

c.a., I have NO idea why you are posting in this thread since you are not on the ketogenic diet.

Yes this would be true, not at the level i should be. Pointers, appreciated.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Lately i have been consuming bicardonate de soude to bring the bloods ph level up a bite, mixed with (16 oz.) filtered water, and a fizzy of magnesium.

This really comes in handy when there is the experience of acid reflex. It neutralizes the issue pretty quirk re-leaving the symptoms of the acid in the throat, and settles the stomach as well.

I think it's most likely that the reflux is a problem of insufficient acid and/or intolerance to one or more foods you're consuming. I'd suggest trying HCL instead of bicardonate de soude, as you may be getting poor absorption by reducing your stomach acid by taking it.

But need to move to more fat, and less carbs, as i still consume 2 buckwheat pancakes for breakfast, with coffee, and bacon, with scrambled egg whites, followed by copious amounts of water to help stimulate a good bow movement. This meal will last a long time, and only feel hunger as for a snack, like a salad in the afternoon.

Coffee seems to be basically evil as far as I'm aware. Why are you consuming only the egg whites? The yolks are where everything good is. Your breakfast sounds like quite a lot of carbs and way too much protein. I think buckwheat also has gluten-like proteins--either way, there are safer sources of carbs (or, better yet, ditching them altogether).

I'm not sure where you're getting the information you're using to choose your foods, but it sounds like you're way behind on the LWoB thread and this one, and definitely not in ketosis.

 

[Ca.]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm not sure where you're getting the information you're using to choose your foods, but it sounds like you're way behind on the LWoB thread and this one, and definitely not in ketosis.

Thanks Foxx, i needed to start at the beginning, and will be fasting for 24 hours starting tomorrow to see how i can begin to tailor ketosis process, and start this transformation.

I do a very hard work out routine, and was in fear that i would crap out at the wrong time, with energy levels. But that does not appear to be the case as i have read here. On ward, up ward.

Sorry, for the noise.

 

[Muxel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

maybe the high temperatures that are produced while you make lard cause the fat to be not that well tolerated by the body?
maybe the fat becomes "damaged" by those high temperatures (isn't butter also made with fairly high temperatures?)?

Pashalis, I had had the same thought. Presently, it is difficult for me to tolerate rendered fats. But, for example, the fat on a steak, or on a piece of chicken thigh, I can eat with no problem. I don't see any way out except to adapt. If only there were a "deus ex machina" for this.

I managed to find a helpful series of videos that really cover the basics well.

Salman Khan drawing on MS Paint? I can top that. :D
Here are good biology animated tutorials: http://nhscience.lonestar.edu/biol/bio1int.htm
Especially the ones from McGraw-Hill: http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0072437316/120060/ravenanimation.html

Example 1 ETC
Example 2 OXPHOS

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just did a ketostix test (ReliOn brand) and it matched somewhere in the 80-160mg/dL range (looked closer to 160 than 80). I've been pretty thorough about protein restriction since reading PBPM in January or February of this year, though am still experiencing low energy. Right now, I think that's mainly due to insufficient exercise, so I'm going to start working with a kettlebell soon.

I've recently upped my fat more (originally I shot for about 1g/kg of daily protein consumption--about 63.5 for me, as I think my weight is pretty close to my ideal, though doing .8g/kg as Gedgaudes recommends would put me around 51g/day--and calculated then that I needed about 110g of fat per day to hit 80% fat consumption) to see if I wasn't getting enough fat (I haven't been weighing it), but haven't noticed any significant changes. I've also moved to zero carbs (went between low carbs and zero carbs for a while) and am eating pork, canned fish (sardines and herring), and some beef again recently. I cut eggs just in case (I did like eggs, though...), but will perhaps test reintroducing them at a later time and see how they work for me after everything else gets stable (there are chickens where I live, so lots of eggs).

Just this week I've had a bit more energy after completing a fairly strenuous day hike that left my body quite sore for a few days (I mainly went for the view, not specifically for exercise) and also consuming some of the liquid from a pork roast I made in a crock pot that was bone-in--the liquid being quite gelatinous and, I think, being a bit of a bone broth (though not what I would consider to be "full strength").

I've done some IF and noticed my breath changed at times when doing it (maybe I was still consuming too much protein before? I've been eye-balling it, and reduced it even more, recently).

I think for some time I was disrupting my stomach acid by taking magnesium with food and I seem to still have low stomach acid, so I've been taking HCL again, which helps, and taking magnesium at night (thanks for the tip, Laura!).

That's where I'm at now--hopefully the kettlebell HIIT and making bone broth will fix up the energy issues.

 

[dant]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?


I guess I am a bit confused...

Let's say it is calculated X = 1.5g/kg * weight in kg,
one needs Xg of protein per day.

Using the 4:1 fat/protein ratio, does this mean I
need to consume 4*Xg of fat and Xg of protein
per day?

 

[Meager1]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After reading the thread I decided to try this myself, starting tomorrow.

There is a "bone pot" cooking right now, which will be ready by morning.

I also added in a handful of pot herbs, consisting of dandelion greens, plantain leaf and some violet leaf, these will be strained out later though.

My thinking is that this will add more vitamins and minerals and would have probably been done that way, originally. Maybe avoid the cramping issue?

I also bought something called beef suet to add to it later on in the cooking.

My understanding is that this suet is the fat from around the kidneys and should be ok to add.

If not, please let me know.

Also, I have weights that I`ll start using, probably just two pounds to begin with.