Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for your comments, Data, Megan, Laura, and Ailen. I'll adjust my diet accordingly and report back when I'm ACTUALLY duplicating the experiment you're running; not just thinking I am. Sorry for the noise earlier.

 

[seek10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Curious about the bones, are you guys and gals getting grass-fed, org. bones?

Most of my stuff I get it from the uswellnessmeats.com through mail. there are local organic farms in NJ ( 20 min drive for me) where I occasionally get the grass fed beef, bones, lever etc and I will be trying to get beef fat pretty soon. grass fed beef seems to be easy to get here , but Non grain fed pork is the challenge. What they say here is the free roaming pork meat, but they say they may eat organic grain too. As for as I know (based on the queries and replies) the only place I heard you get non grain fed pork is uswellnessmeats. looks to me "too good to be true".

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, my husband wouldn't let me keep it going on the stove overnight, he was afraid the house would burn down. Plus he said the DotConnector receipe said you only had to cook it two hours or more. I quit arguing with hiim. Next time I'll dig out the crockpot. The bone I used had a ton of meat on it, you could hardly see any bones for all the meat. I think it just wasn't the right type of bone, and I did use too much water.

Next time, have him call me so I can explain to him that you can't burn a house down by leaving a pot of water on very low over night. ;) I left my bones on simmer for around 18 hours since I don't have a pressure cooker (yet). Puck, I got my bones from the farmer who sells me the pork chops - she says that most people buy them for their dogs to chew on - so I grabbed what she had and they were shank bones cut into three or four inch pieces chock full of marrow and a few hip bones too.

 

[Don Genaro]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have a question though- maybe I've missed it but is the idea to do this IF thing on a continual basis or is it something to be done over the long term for one or two days a week or is it just a once off thing for a couple of weeks ?

The fast is mainly to get you in to full ketosis, a 'running start' if you like, but it may not be necessary for everyone. I didn't need to fast, just reduced my protein way down and tried eating more fat, that was a bad idea because since I wasn't burning fat as energy, it was kind of pointless to eat it, and it just made me feel sick. So you can try just reducing your intake for a day and then check with the ketone sticks.

Having said that, you might find once you get into burning fats as your primary source of energy, you feel like not eating for a day or only eating one meal or something. Who knows.

Okay, thanks. I'm going to spend the next two weeks reading the papers and on payday I'm going to get me a liquidizer and make some of that delicious sounding paté!!!

I've noticed the increased or "pounding" heartbeat sometimes when I smoke.

This, Don Genaro's and Data's remark about needing to smoke less reminded me of something on The Polyvagal Theory. I can't find the exact quote right now, but maybe someone else can find it. FWIW, as I understand it, the smart vagus is insulated and coated by a myelin sheath, which is composed mainly of fat. I wonder if, with the KD, myelin becomes more efficient somehow (healthier fat in bigger quantities, free of toxins -which normally get accumulated in the fat-), and therefore allows for the vagus nerve to do a better job. If so, could it be that the body naturally starts producing more acetylcholine? This might be waaay oversimplified of off, but I thought I'd just trow it out there.

The higher (right) branch of the vagus nerve also regulates our heartbeat. I noticed the same as Laura, and not being related to smoking in particularly.

I, too, have noted a bit of "fluttery speed" to the heart at odd moments. Nothing like the palpitations I used to have, but yeah, it's there. I suspect it is because the heart is used to having such bad fuel and now it gets its preferred fuel and it's have to have a carburator adjustment or something.

And this is what is a bit puzzling and might contradict completely my idea above. Because acetylcholine is usually known to LOWER the heartbeat, not raise it. So maybe it has nothing to do with acetylcholine at all, and it's different for everybody depending on how our hearts have this "carburator adjustment". I don't know. Any ideas? I can't explain why some people would have the "pounding heartbeat" when smoking...

Unfortunately I know very little about biochemistry but I was thinking along the lines of acetylcholine production. Maybe something will turn up?

The one thing I've noticed is that before experimenting, I had not needed to wear "deodorant " for about 3 weeks. There was no odor. I read in the thread "body odor " that other members were experiencing that as well and figured it was just another benefit to going low carb / paleo. With being in ketosis, I've noticed a slight underarm odor again. From what I read, the ketones can be released through your sweat as well.

This thought has occurred to me before. I couldn't imagine paleo people using deoderant or brushing their teeth! Perhaps all the sugar toxicity and fermentation is what leads to body stink!

Can't wait to prepare my first bone broth though I'm no expert at cooking. I guess I'll need to get a pressure cooker as my cooker is timed to 1h max which can be a bit of a pain. Btw, does anyone suggest to chop the bones in order to get all of the marrow out or does it happen anyway?

Yes, that's always a good idea, especially if you're using a pressure cooker. I leave mine on overnight and in the morning I break up the bones and leave it boiling for a few more hours. :)

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here's a simple way that doesn't require you to count mgs or kgs or anything else. Every time you eat from now on, have a little more fat than you used to, which will mean you'll probably have a little less protein, since you'll be full quicker with the fat. So to start off, just have your pork chop or sausage or whatever, but add more fat while you are eating it. Keep that up for a while and make sure you can digest ok, then try and increase the amount of fat and reduce protein a little more. The goal is to be able to make fat the main thing you eat and therefore main energy source. We don't know if it will work out that way, but that's what we're trying, because this is a diet experiment.

Thanks that's really easy to follow.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Next time, have him call me so I can explain to him that you can't burn a house down by leaving a pot of water on very low over night. ;) I left my bones on simmer for around 18 hours since I don't have a pressure cooker (yet). Puck, I got my bones from the farmer who sells me the pork chops - she says that most people buy them for their dogs to chew on - so I grabbed what she had and they were shank bones cut into three or four inch pieces chock full of marrow and a few hip bones too.

Yeah, he's really anal about stuff like that. Maybe he thinks the cats will jump up there and turn the stove up higher, or knock the pot over. I mean, they haven't tried anything like that in 14 years, but there's always a first time, right? ;)

As for where to get the bones, I was going to get some from US Wellness, but the shipping charge was really high unless you buy a large order. I still don't have a separate freezer yet so space is an issue. I got what I have now from some place called the Crested Duck Charcuterie

_http://crestedduck.com/index.php

which is the only semi-butcher shop I found in the area. They only get in a few whole animals a week (or maybe it was a month) though so they don't always have bones available. I was going to try WholeFoods, but that doesn't sound too promising, as per Megan's experience.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Yeah, he's really anal about stuff like that. Maybe he thinks the cats will jump up there and turn the stove up higher, or knock the pot over. I mean, they haven't tried anything like that in 14 years, but there's always a first time, right? ;)

...I was going to try WholeFoods, but that doesn't sound too promising, as per Megan's experience.

One of our cats (Cassie) will go after fat. She has knocked the lid off the butter dish, and for a while her whiskers were singed on one side. That tells us that she DID do something stupid involving the stove, probably trying to lick fat from a hot frying pan. (She's not terribly bright.) She loves to chew on bones, but doesn't know that they are in the crock pot and leaves it alone. If they don't normally go after anything found in the broth and don't know what is in the pot then I don't think there will be a problem. If you have seen them fooling around with the stove before then you'd better be a little careful.

Whole Foods Market stores can vary by region. I have been to ones in Washington DC and Las Vegas, and I liked them better than the one here in Sacramento. Still, the chain is centrally run and I think the trend is probably toward the more profitable "healthy" processed food, lean meat, and the ever-popular "healthy" vegetable oils (organic vegetable oil -- what a concept!). Use them for what you can find in them that is good, but you have to be able to tell what that is.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

But, what I did differently is adding salt after the cooking was done, since I read in the DCM magazine that adding salt during the cooking process could prevent nutrients from being released?

OK, made my first batch Sunday and mine just tastes like salty water. Wondered why people raved about the taste. Obviously I didn't use enough bones and/or way too much water. I finally found someplace that has good quality bones, but they only had certain kind frozen in packages, and I used one big hunk that had a lot of meat left on it, and a whole gallon of water in a pot on the stove and cooked it for six hours, letting it simmer with a lid on. There is some fat on the top, like a very thin layer, the rest is the consistency of water. I put my name on a list for when the shop gets in "marrow" bones.

Back to the drawing board!

The amount of water used is just enough to cover the bones, and a little over, topping up with water if the bones stick out above the surface. Rather than putting salt and pepper in at the beginning wait until you have finished simmering the bones. What really helps to bring the nutrients out of the bones is to put some cider vinegar in the water, after the water has come to the boil, and then simmer. If you want a lot of gelatin, use pig's trotters. To get the marrow out of bones, crack the bones open.

This may help, or not.

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After my soup mug of bone broth today (which was yummy, btw) I dropped like a stone about a half hour afterwards, and slept hard for two hours. Feel pretty good now!

Has this happened to anyone else?

First time for me, I've never been tired from any of the bone broth made from ducks, or chickens. This was the first batch of org marrow bone broth.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Curious about the bones, are you guys and gals getting grass-fed, org. bones?

The lamb shanks I get from the Whole Foods closest to you. I get the grass fed ones from New Zealand - they don't have those at every WF and they're relatively cheap. They may be able to break them for you if you ask. I just throw them in and the broth comes out fine but maybe breaking them up will reduce the cooking time.

USWellness is good for their sugar free bacon. It's the only bacon I can tolerate because it only has sea salt - there's no sugar or preservatives in them. They have a minimum order of $75.00 though so that's a rarity for me. The reason they do it that way is to ensure that everything arrives cold as a smaller order might arrived melted and spoiled.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

After my soup mug of bone broth today (which was yummy, btw) I dropped like a stone about a half hour afterwards, and slept hard for two hours. Feel pretty good now!

Has this happened to anyone else?

First time for me, I've never been tired from any of the bone broth made from ducks, or chickens. This was the first batch of org marrow bone broth.

I never found the broth from poultry to be nearly as healing as lamb, beef or pork so there may be something to that. Did you have more fat in it than usual? I ask because after upping the amount of fat over the last few days, a couple of times I've felt as if I really had to take a nap. The bone broths I've been making over the past year or so never had that effect to my knowledge so I'm thinking it's the increase in fat that's responsible for it. I've been fine today though.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...The lamb shanks I get from the Whole Foods closest to you. I get the grass fed ones from New Zealand - they don't have those at every WF and they're relatively cheap. They may be able to break them for you if you ask. I just throw them in and the broth comes out fine but maybe breaking them up will reduce the cooking time...

Our WFM often has local grass-fed lamb shank if I can get there before it's gone for the week. Much of the time I end up with the NZ instead. Oh well.

The recipe I am using now for bone broth comes from Chris Kresser. It's part of a package I purchased ("Personal Paleo Code"), and I would rather not share it verbatim. He drew from web sources and particularly from Weston A. Price foundation, and I think the information is mostly out there. He says you can fracture the bones in order to release more nutrients. You can place them in a suitable bag and break them with a hammer, or you can have the butcher cut them.

Other people here on the forum have written about ways of making bone broth, either in the LWB topic or perhaps in the recipes section. I like to keep food preparation as simple as possible, and I haven't tried fracturing the bones yet. But I probably should.

 

[Muxel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Do we have to live with acetone breath, or will it go away as our body becomes more efficient at using ketones?

 

[Alana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Other people here on the forum have written about ways of making bone broth, either in the LWB topic or perhaps in the recipes section. I like to keep food preparation as simple as possible, and I haven't tried fracturing the bones yet. But I probably should.

We were very lucky regarding bones. An acquaintance of ours whose husband goes hunting, brought us a whole dear's bones last winter in a black plastic bag. They were so huge that the first night we "stored" them in a closed barrel in the yard (it was freezing with snow all around) and the next day my housemate took them to the butcher who cut them down in pieces and we stored them in the freezer. We still have some, these are the bones that make our broth these days. I cook them in water for about 5-6 hours and it comes out very fatty and gelatinous. Because the bones are cut, all the marrow gels in the broth too, along with little pieces of meat and lots of cartilage. Having one cup of this broth, I am not hungry to eat anything else the rest of the day. So if you know anyone who goes hunting, ask about the bones, because people often throw them away.

Regarding my experiments, I wasn't going to start the IF until next week, but yesterday in the afternoon (around 4 pm) I had a big cup of broth and then wasn't hungry at all for the rest of the day. This morning I had another big cup of broth, about two spoonfuls of chicken liver pate with lard, and one piece of bacon (I couldn't finish my 3 other pieces). This afternoon I ate 6 pieces of bacon, and maybe I will have a bit more broth later on. But I don't feel hungry at all. And I tried my ketostix and for the first time it's deep purple. Otherwise I feel fine, albeit some general tiredness and pain in my legs, but it might be from the exercise 2 days ago.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Because the bones are cut, all the marrow gels in the broth too, along with little pieces of meat and lots of cartilage...

OK, that does it. This is broth-making weekend coming up for me, and I have a suitable bag and I have a hammer. It's time to do this. :)