Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Did I missed or misunderstood something here because many of you in this thread seem to use ketostiks again while they were considered unreliable in the Life without bread' thread? My only gauge these days to know if i'm in mild or strong ketosis being the acetone breath,is it a good marker?
And by the way could someone living in france tell me what's the name or the brand i should order at the pharmacy? Thanks.

In English: Reagent Strips for Urinalysis - Test for Glucose and Ketone (acetoacetic Acid) in urine.

In French: Bandelettes réactives pour l'analyse d'urine - Test de détection du glucose et des cétones (acide acétylacétique) dans les urines.

I also bought the Bayer one. 9.50€ for 50 reagents.

Hope it helps. ;)

 

[Don Diego]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for your replies! :)

 

[anart]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Did I missed or misunderstood something here because many of you in this thread seem to use ketostiks again while they were considered unreliable in the Life without bread' thread? My only gauge these days to know if i'm in mild or strong ketosis being the acetone breath,is it a good marker?
And by the way could someone living in france tell me what's the name or the brand i should order at the pharmacy? Thanks.

It's been remarked here that they aren't entirely reliable, just a general indicator in the beginning. I just got ketostix here. Just ask the pharmacist for the urine testers that diabetics use.

Being extremely carb sensitive, I've been at 0-20 carbs a day now for well over a year and, thus, have been in ketosis for that long as well and I've never felt better in my life. I've never used ketostix, though, and I don't think they are necessary really. Early on in the transition, the ketone breath is a great indicator and then, as time went on it was really apparent if I was getting too much protein because my energy would slack off a bit and I'd feel just a little off or tired. I didn't put two and two together on that, though, until the crew linked the papers on excess protein and the glucose that produces and how it affects ketosis, so that's a huge key. At this point, with cutting down my protein a bit I have noticed an improvement in energy and I just feel 'better' eating less though I'm never really hungry. Bone broth is like the food of the gods.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones.

Same here! My bone broth actually turned into pudding in the fridge! I guess it must be the gelatin.

But, what I did differently is adding salt after the cooking was done, since I read in the DCM magazine that adding salt during the cooking process could prevent nutrients from being released?

OK, made my first batch Sunday and mine just tastes like salty water. Wondered why people raved about the taste. Obviously I didn't use enough bones and/or way too much water. I finally found someplace that has good quality bones, but they only had certain kind frozen in packages, and I used one big hunk that had a lot of meat left on it, and a whole gallon of water in a pot on the stove and cooked it for six hours, letting it simmer with a lid on. There is some fat on the top, like a very thin layer, the rest is the consistency of water. I put my name on a list for when the shop gets in "marrow" bones.

Back to the drawing board!

 

[Renaissance]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm now on my 6th day of IF. On day one I ate regularly, but I lowered my protein intake and upped my fat. I also made sure there was about 18 hours between my dinner and the following day's first meal.

On day two I woke up with ease and felt fully rested, which isn't always easy for me. I felt a high buzz in energy throughout day two so I think I got into strong ketosis right away. I had very minimal cramps, but I do remember experiencing them badly when first doing the KT diet. I did however have some trouble sleeping that night, but it wasn't too bad.

Day three I didn't eat much and was still feeling good, until nighttime. I had a fever that lasted about an hour or so and had very frequent trips to the bathroom for 'housecleaning' throughout the night. I didn't get a whole lot of sleep. I had taken a bit of vitamin C because I was house-sitting and ended up being allergic to their cat, so that probably had some impact as well. I also made liver pate with LOTS of fat, and probably did too much taste-testing, so that may have had some influence as well.

Day four I felt pretty tired and slept a bit in the afternoon. I felt like I ate too much at breakfast (I had two thin pieces of bacon and 3-4 tablespoons of liver pate), so I didn't eat much the rest of the day. I was feeling pretty low energy (which I thought was because of the breakfast), but as soon as I had some bone broth later in the afternoon I perked right back up.

Day five was better and started to feel like I'm finally getting a bit of a handle on it. I also joined a gym and had my first workout in quite a number of years. I've been feeling pretty sedentary lately, so I was glad to get started on this. Last night I took some magnesium and potasium and I slept like a baby.

I was somewhat apprehensive while first reading about the IF and the calorie restriction. I though it would be easier to do 'all or nothing' but that really wasn't the case. All in all it has not been really difficult, but there is a learning curve that I feel I am still in. I think it is pretty similar to learning to listen to what foods your body does and does not like, as happens with the elimination diet.

I also started to do cold baths again. I had been doing them daily for about a month and a half, but stopped when some things came up for my family. I found taking a really hot shower first, then going straight into a cold one helps the most for me. Then I lie down in the tub and fill it up with cold water while doing pipe breathing. I'm not sure I could do it (particularly in the beginning) without the pipe breathing.

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I put my name on a list for when the shop gets in "marrow" bones.

Another word for marrow bones is "Shank bones". My bone broth is made with 1.5 lbs of marrow 'shank bones' and about 3 or 4 beef rib bones with some meat on them.

Cover with water so that it just clears the bones, season with salt and pepper, leave in the crock pot 8-10 hours. (1 hour on high setting, rest of the time on low)

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

We use a pressure coocker here. It takes about 1 hour and a half. We drop the bones in the pot and a piece of fat stew meat (optional), cover with water (leaving about an inch of water on top of the bones), add salt and pepper, close the lid, et voilà. Some of us add extra lard on the hot broth. We don't skim anything off. We just remove the bones.

Same here! My bone broth actually turned into pudding in the fridge! I guess it must be the gelatin.

But, what I did differently is adding salt after the cooking was done, since I read in the DCM magazine that adding salt during the cooking process could prevent nutrients from being released?

OK, made my first batch Sunday and mine just tastes like salty water. Wondered why people raved about the taste. Obviously I didn't use enough bones and/or way too much water. I finally found someplace that has good quality bones, but they only had certain kind frozen in packages, and I used one big hunk that had a lot of meat left on it, and a whole gallon of water in a pot on the stove and cooked it for six hours, letting it simmer with a lid on. There is some fat on the top, like a very thin layer, the rest is the consistency of water. I put my name on a list for when the shop gets in "marrow" bones.

Back to the drawing board!

I use a lot of water when I make it, filling my slow cooker to the brim. However I leave it on for at least 16 hours, which is enough time for it to boil down to a much more concentrated form. I think cooking it for longer than 6 hours is necessary to get a really thick broth, but it probably also depends on the size of the bones.

I think a good way to tell if the broth is 'finished' is to first of all see how soft the bones are. If the ends are soft enough to break with your teeth, then break it open and see what the marrow is like. After only a few hours the marrow will probably still be delicious and soft, but after longer cooking it turns grey, dry and tasteless. I assume that this is the point at which most of the good stuff has been leached out into the broth.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I use a lot of water when I make it, filling my slow cooker to the brim. However I leave it on for at least 16 hours, which is enough time for it to boil down to a much more concentrated form. I think cooking it for longer than 6 hours is necessary to get a really thick broth, but it probably also depends on the size of the bones.

I think a good way to tell if the broth is 'finished' is to first of all see how soft the bones are. If the ends are soft enough to break with your teeth, then break it open and see what the marrow is like. After only a few hours the marrow will probably still be delicious and soft, but after longer cooking it turns grey, dry and tasteless. I assume that this is the point at which most of the good stuff has been leached out into the broth.

Well, my husband wouldn't let me keep it going on the stove overnight, he was afraid the house would burn down. Plus he said the DotConnector receipe said you only had to cook it two hours or more. I quit arguing with hiim. Next time I'll dig out the crockpot. The bone I used had a ton of meat on it, you could hardly see any bones for all the meat. I think it just wasn't the right type of bone, and I did use too much water.

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, my husband wouldn't let me keep it going on the stove overnight, he was afraid the house would burn down. Plus he said the DotConnector receipe said you only had to cook it two hours or more. I quit arguing with hiim. Next time I'll dig out the crockpot. The bone I used had a ton of meat on it, you could hardly see any bones for all the meat. I think it just wasn't the right type of bone, and I did use too much water.

Hmm, maybe you can put it on in the early morning and have it on for the day or as long as it may need (when you're at home so you can check on it now and then)? Then put it in the fridge when it's done and heat a couple of spoons of broth the next morning?

 

[Chrissy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you for this latest research. It's very exciting.

I fasted at the beginning of last week and eliminated all carbs. I am using an app from SparkPeople (I believe this was mentioned on the forum before) called diet tracker where you enter your food and it gives you total carbs, fat, and protein. I am pretty close to the 3:1 ratio. I am eating much less and find I am satisfied. I did go through some sore legs and loss of energy, but all of this has subsided and I am feeling great. I dusted off my pilates machine and started using that as well. My lower back pain is gone today and I think that is related to the exercise.

The one thing I've noticed is that before experimenting, I had not needed to wear "deodorant " for about 3 weeks. There was no odor. I read in the thread "body odor " that other members were experiencing that as well and figured it was just another benefit to going low carb / paleo. With being in ketosis, I've noticed a slight underarm odor again. From what I read, the ketones can be released through your sweat as well.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...OK, made my first batch Sunday and mine just tastes like salty water. Wondered why people raved about the taste. Obviously I didn't use enough bones and/or way too much water. I finally found someplace that has good quality bones, but they only had certain kind frozen in packages, and I used one big hunk that had a lot of meat left on it, and a whole gallon of water in a pot on the stove and cooked it for six hours, letting it simmer with a lid on...

Did it gel after it cooled? If not, something is missing from the mix. I noticed, as has been observed by various authors, that chicken broth did not gel even though I used organic chicken, and I never bothered with that again. You can't cook out what never went in. Grass-fed lamb shank and beef short ribs have worked well, however. I cook both together, but I suspect that the lamb shank is yielding more nutrients than the beef ribs.

I remove as much meat as possible and freeze the bones until I have enough to make a batch, by the way. It's not ideal, but I have to deal with a store (Whole Foods) that receives its meat already butchered, and nearly everything they offer is boneless and trimmed of fat. The latest is that they have started drowining all their fresh, marinated olives in sunflower oil. Hopefully we will find a better source soon. That store is becoming less and less useful over time, as they cater more and more to the "organic processed food" (and low fat) crowd. I may try talking to their culinary center person (whom I know) about paleo, as an experiment. Some other WF stores in this region have shown an interest.

I have been covering the bones with about an inch of filtered water, and adding a bit more if the bones become exposed after cooking for 12 hours (total time 18-24 hours). If there seems to be too much water, just cook it longer. I don't think you're going to damage it as long as it is just at a simmer.

 

[sebbe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I was thinking about the "Mitochondrial Energetics and Therapeutics" paper and about limiting factors.

There is something too, in another paper, from Dr De Cristofaro. It's about respiratory quotient and O².


If i understand correctly, the more cells have O², the more cells are efficients to use lipid. In the opposite, If we are on hypoxia, the cell use first glucose.
If we suppose many people are on hypoxia because of contaminant, pollution and all crazy things that we know, we could see another limiting factor.

So we could think, if we have more oxygen, it could be ok, particulary for those who have difficulties with keto diet. But we know too that a super oxygenation of the body is not good (free radical, oxydation etc.).

So i remember René Jacquier's invention. He found system to use better oxygen (biocatalitic oxygenation with peroxyded terpens) in the cell.
The paper of De Cristofaro is not on keto diet but can give usefull information indirectly for us. I give the link about scientific papers but it is in french.

http://www.holiste.com/fr/documentation/communications-scientifiques


http://www.holiste.com/images/stories/Bibliotheque/Communications_scientifiques/travaux_de_cristofaro.pdf

Perhaps this could be helpful; even if a bol d'air jacquier is expensive.

Sorry if i can't explain it very well, someone could make link and clues better than me.

So, to resume, a better use of o² in cell for better use of fat.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...If i understand correctly, the more cells have O², the more cells are efficients to use lipid. In the opposite, If we are on hypoxia, the cell use first glucose.
If we suppose many people are on hypoxia because of contaminant, pollution and all crazy things that we know, we could see another limiting factor...

I am still trying to understand this myself, but there seem to be three basic pathways to ADP phosphorylation. The most familiar one is the sugar-burning (and ROS-generating) one using aerobic glycolysis in the cytoplasm to feed OXPHOS. The one we are most interested in here feeds OXPHOS with fatty acids. The third is anaerobic glycolysis in the cytoplasm -- basically fermentation -- as I understand it so far. When O2 is low, the inefficient anaerobic process can kick in.

While it works well in bacteria, I gather that it is more of a short-term survival mechanism in humans, although I suppose it plays a role in anaerobic exercise as well. I don't know-I am still sorting through seemingly conflicting (and often simplified) accounts trying to understand it. I am also trying to understand the regulatory role of CO2, but I haven't gotten anywhere with that yet. Like ROS, it may have a positive function.

 

[Cyre2067]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Curious about the bones, are you guys and gals getting grass-fed, org. bones?

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Can't wait to prepare my first bone broth though I'm no expert at cooking. I guess I'll need to get a pressure cooker as my cooker is timed to 1h max which can be a bit of a pain. Btw, does anyone suggest to chop the bones in order to get all of the marrow out or does it happen anyway?